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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8035 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2013 : 08:22:03
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I suppose the point might be to explore further plots which might arise from the rules. I mean, the entire vampshoon notion was an attempt to explain a story event through a rules context, why not look to the rules again to see where they can take him.
Plot provides good fiction, rules provide good gaming, of course they don't have to (and probably never can) always precisely coexist. But most of my favourite FR novels are those wherein I recognize gaming elements and plot being mutually reinforced rather than having either one completely brush the other aside. Most of the FR novels I consider poorly written are those which throw their story into the Realms with sweeping disregard of any game mechanics, or those which are cleverly orchestrated sequences of plodding game details which end up reading more like modules than stories. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Feb 2013 08:23:56 |
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Andrekan
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 18:25:38
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Getting back to Halaster, I remember after he was torn to pieces by devils in aid to Elminster in Hell, he was crying in the arms of Mystra who granted him a spark of sanity which may possibly have lead up to his (accidental or intentional) self sacrifice that shattered his soul into fragments which were scattered about.
I used it in some of my games, sometimes directly hinting to the players (the ghostly form of a bald bearded wizard with tattered brown robes stands before the archway and vanishes with a pulse of arcane energy as the portal forms or ancient gate thunders). Some of the things they were doing tramping around in the Undermountain were indirectly assimilating some of Halaster's soul shards as certain gates might open they (the players) could not have opened otherwise. During this process some items or treasures would crumble to dust. So I am quiet sure with all of the other traffic within the Undermountain something similar, could possibly, occur along with the return of Mystra.
This is of course my personal theory, as after running Undermountain adventures on and off for twenty some odd years, I could not image a place so haunted by such a powerful ghost (Mad Mage) not still have some of that ghost (Mad Mage) essence clinging in dark dusty corners.
The general public Above or even the residence there within might not be truly aware of it until some fantastic event (like a Harvestide) makes rumors and/or verifications fly.
He was never dead in my book as DM and Halaster fan, just shattered and scattered not smuthered and covered..
As for Kelban, look to Rhymanthiin, his duty to perform without hesitation or mental reservation... |
"Those two talk only of drink, riches, women, brawling, and magic, so ye've a one in five chance..." Quote from "Elminster in Hell" |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8035 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 23:15:10
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quote:
Andrekan
Getting back to Halaster, I remember after he was torn to pieces by devils in aid to Elminster in Hell, he was crying in the arms of Mystra who granted him a spark of sanity which may possibly have lead up to his (accidental or intentional) self sacrifice that shattered his soul into fragments which were scattered about.
Halaster has had several other episodes of lucid sanity (admittedly, he was a basically powerless prisoner during one of these) wherein he seemed an almost affable fellow with no pressing desire to sacrifice himself for any reason. What would've changed him in Elminster in Hell novel enough for suicide to suddenly become a viable/preferred option? |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2013 : 02:16:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Andrekan
Getting back to Halaster, I remember after he was torn to pieces by devils in aid to Elminster in Hell, he was crying in the arms of Mystra who granted him a spark of sanity which may possibly have lead up to his (accidental or intentional) self sacrifice that shattered his soul into fragments which were scattered about.
Halaster has had several other episodes of lucid sanity (admittedly, he was a basically powerless prisoner during one of these) wherein he seemed an almost affable fellow with no pressing desire to sacrifice himself for any reason. What would've changed him in Elminster in Hell novel enough for suicide to suddenly become a viable/preferred option?
I'd definitely not say he committed suicide. If that was the case he would have kamikazeed down there, and he would not have needed Mystra's boon of sanity to do that. He retreated to return to his life, not to seek out death elsewhere. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2013 : 02:39:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrekan
As for Kelban, look to Rhymanthiin, his duty to perform without hesitation or mental reservation...
My point was it was stupid, plain and simple. His "duty" after 12000 years amounts to nothing more than the high moor and the Dark Disaster being too interesting for meddling game designers/writers to leave alone. The evidence is the way it was done. It was like listening to a name-dropper talk about how cool he is because he knows this and that and the other historically famous wizard and how he knows this incredibly powerful spell. Oh, and all those wizards have just been sleeping away the past 500 years because they knew that this would happen, and it is sooo important that they could not possibly have worked together to have made the realms a better place in all that time - JOKE.
Khelben is established as being half-half elven. But the book presents him as basically an elf wearing a human disguise (re-read it if you think that's an exaggeration), and a High Mage to boot - a high mage center to be precise. Talk about departing from cannon.
The creator of moonblades mentioned to me once she was not in favor of the idea of their use here too, by the way, but why ask for permission to destroy what a more creative author created 15-20 years before just because you can't think of a new plot device. That would involve creativity.
Not to mention that the High Mages alive back then were collectively far more powerful than Khelben, and could have made this happen way back when. I literally through that book in the trash and in my mind it clearly marked the beginning of the Realms inexorable decline into 4th E.
I could go on and on but I'll stop ranting there as I know people here want us all to be nice on this topic. For the record, I did say don't get me started. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2013 : 14:57:12
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| On the subject of chosen being able to use stasis clone- in ed's last elminster book, wasn't manshoon revealed to be a chosen? If manshoon can create clones then surely other chosen can too? |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2013 : 06:09:40
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| I think its safe to say that while "chosen" by Mystra to perform a task, he was not "Chosen" by Mystra to carry her essence. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2013 : 07:19:27
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I think its safe to say that while "chosen" by Mystra to perform a task, he was not "Chosen" by Mystra to carry her essence.
Could you elaborate?
As far as I know, Mystra's essence doesn't just lay around on street corners, waiting to be picked up by the latest passerby. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2013 : 11:09:09
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I think its safe to say that while "chosen" by Mystra to perform a task, he was not "Chosen" by Mystra to carry her essence.
The problem being discussed was whether silver fire would interfere with the stasis clone spell. Manshoon did indeed carry silver fire within himself (unaware of it or not), and he obviously had no trouble cloning himself. The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that Mystra invested silver fire in this clone only. As long as this clone hasn't cloned himself then there should be no problem.
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Lothlos
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2013 : 21:13:21
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| I was stated in Villians I believe that it should be assumed that Halaster had clones of himself. I feel it is easiest to believe that a clone activated and it took Halaster time to repair the damage from the earthquake his spell caused and that is what is hinted at in 4e. |
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2013 : 08:38:50
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| he does not need clones, he drank Halaster's Quaff elixir that instead of death causes the body to pass into the Ethereal in temporal stasis |
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Halaster et al.
