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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 05:16:23
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It seems like , that mortals still think mask may be alive, even after everything that happen, while not a published work on a large level. The short story the got catcher by erin evans, has a few folks cuss in it saying Mask's Empty Casket
I think that is a interesting curse for someone to be saying 300 years after he supposedly died.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 05:41:39
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Near the end of Shadowrealm, it's hinted (somewhat) that he'd arranged a contingency (or a number of it) for his eminent return. Spoiler: I doubt the reason he saved Vara and swept her to the future is because he felt sorry for her and his Chosen, Cale. He must have done it to save his own ass. Also, Ed himself mentioned some hints. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 08:10:17
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| mmhmm, and I think that series was suppose to be part of the transition books, but the writer could not get along with what WOTC wanted so he quit? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 08:33:29
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| I interpreted the spoiler a little differently, seeing a sort of dichotomy between Mask and Erevis ... Mask's long-forgotten humanity gradually begins to dimly reawaken as his complement, Erevis, struggles against becoming utterly inhuman. Perhaps Mask's behaviour was dictated by a human virtue like compassion, concern, or even affection for Erevis? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 14 Jan 2013 08:40:55 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 08:47:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I interpreted the spoiler a little differently, seeing a sort of dichotomy between Mask and Erevis ... Mask's long-forgotten humanity gradually begins to dimly reawaken as his complement, Erevis, struggles against becoming utterly inhuman. Perhaps Mask's behaviour was dictated by a human virtue like compassion, concern, or even affection for Erevis?
Perhaps there was a little of that but I doubt that was all he had in mind. After all when all is said and done he is an evil deity.
Warning spoiler:
Plus Riven, himself ascended to a demigod of shadows, prophesied to Magadon that return Mask would return one day. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 16:04:37
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
mmhmm, and I think that series was suppose to be part of the transition books, but the writer could not get along with what WOTC wanted so he quit?
they patched things up a long while ago and his new book Godborn was all but finished when the Transitions was planned....
so Godborn was moved into that series causing further delay, and slightly re-wriiten. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 16:29:22
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Are you guys talking about Erin M. Evans? 
Because if that was a dude I met at Gencon, then thats the prettiest 'guy' I've ever met. {smirk} |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jan 2013 16:29:51 |
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LastStand
Learned Scribe
130 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 18:17:53
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I think Mask doing what he did for Vara was for his own survival. The child was hidden from Shar in the future for a reason, and keep in mind even if Mask showed some 'humanity' he's still the God of thieves. He would never do something that did not benefit him in some way.
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"Don't. The battlegrounds that you and I have returned from alive are too different."
~ Claymore ch106 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2013 : 01:35:32
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| In the end of the Twilight Wars, Riven is talking to Magadon, and hints that Mask is coming back, but to "keep that between us". Riven appears to know something. I for one sure hope Mask returns. I liked him. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2013 : 02:52:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Are you guys talking about Erin M. Evans?
Because if that was a dude I met at Gencon, then thats the prettiest 'guy' I've ever met. {smirk}
Erevis Cale, Riven and Magadon were Paul S Kemp's characters last time i checked |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 15 Jan 2013 02:53:43 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2013 : 03:35:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I interpreted the spoiler a little differently, seeing a sort of dichotomy between Mask and Erevis ... Mask's long-forgotten humanity gradually begins to dimly reawaken as his complement, Erevis, struggles against becoming utterly inhuman. Perhaps Mask's behaviour was dictated by a human virtue like compassion, concern, or even affection for Erevis?
Interesting conjecture, but one that I highly doubt to be the case. Mask never worked for the good of others per se. He might have worked for others' good, but that's only because in the end, it was good for him, too. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2013 : 04:59:16
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For the record, I used that as a curse, because I have to believe at least some of Mask's followers would doubt he really died, knowing Mask. Which could mean a belief becomes an oath, then a curse, and whether it's true or not true--whether Mardin believes it to be the case or not--it would carry down and affect an old thief's language.
Hope you are enjoying the book!
Also, thank you, Markustay. :) |
www.slushlush.com |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2013 : 17:11:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Are you guys talking about Erin M. Evans?
Because if that was a dude I met at Gencon, then thats the prettiest 'guy' I've ever met. {smirk}
Erevis Cale, Riven and Magadon were Paul S Kemp's characters last time i checked
Yes, but the OP mentioned Godcatcher, so its a bit confusing.
The one book is mentioned, and then the series, and then you guys kept saying 'he', and I couldn't really tell who you were talking about anymore.
Although, Erin, Paul's got great legs.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2013 : 18:39:58
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Wait, you guys were under the impression Mask was dead?
Silly mortals. That just means it worked. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2013 : 19:32:43
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| Based on what Riven told Mags at the end of the series, I suspect there was a chance Mask would return, and I am indeed hoping for that. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2013 : 22:53:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Wait, you guys were under the impression Mask was dead?
Silly mortals. That just means it worked.
Cheers
silly nothing, I saw MAsk down in ARuba on a surfboard , he said the realms was all great and all, but he needed avacation. Said he was going to california next to see what the hub bub was about california girls..... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 00:14:07
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I saw Mask drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect.
"Rumors of his demise are greatly exaggerated."
"Elvis (Mask) isn't dead, son, he just went home."
"He's spending the year dead for tax purposes" (from The Restaurant at the end of the Universe)
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 00:22:31
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| I think I saw him under my bed the other night. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36909 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 05:36:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I saw Mask drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect.
You sure about that? I could have sworn I saw him with a Chinese menu in his hand, walking thru the streets of Soho in the rain... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 07:34:37
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| No man he was kicking back drinking a margarita with Helm in hawaii |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2013 : 16:20:26
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I think I saw him under my bed the other night.
sure that wasn't Wooly?
P.S.
to whatever scribe is first to ask this scroll to get back on topic......no thanks, this is what makes this place great |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 16 Jan 2013 16:21:54 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12087 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2013 : 00:02:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Wait, you guys were under the impression Mask was dead?
Silly mortals. That just means it worked.
Cheers
<Leira calls from the other room>
Yes, yes, dearie.... you came up with a masterful plot and I helped you pull off the biggest lie ever. Now, get in here and put your liar's tongue to better use. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe
148 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2013 : 00:15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Wait, you guys were under the impression Mask was dead?
Silly mortals. That just means it worked.
Cheers
Exactly... I bet some "sillies" even bought into the whole 'Death of Mystra' thing too, lmao.
It's almost too easy to incense fanboys. |
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LastStand
Learned Scribe
130 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 04:57:22
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| A little off-topic...of the off-topicness...but the scene where Mask talks to Shar at the end is one of my most reread parts in the realms. It was such a good scene. |
"Don't. The battlegrounds that you and I have returned from alive are too different."
~ Claymore ch106 |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 07:35:18
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Death or return, Mask or Mystra, I'm just a bit tired of deities being at the forefront all the time. Hopefully WotC got the hint and will allow the moving and shaking to be focused on respective clergies, prophets (who may or may not be right, questionably truthful, or simply mad), and the player character priests.
And that "Mystra dead again?" plot was always more annoying that anything else. It just about reached self-parodying levels of silliness. |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 08:42:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Death or return, Mask or Mystra, I'm just a bit tired of deities being at the forefront all the time.
I read somewhere recently something from Ed. He explained the high preponderance of deities walking Toril in the novels simply being a cheat that made writing the books easier. Rather than having to introduce a priest, explain who the priest was and what their religion is like, he uses the deity and now he only has to explain the religion (NOTE: I don't know if this was his own novels or someone else's novels or both). The unfortunate side-effect is that the deities started appearing in Realms products more and more.
That said, I don't know how that explanation jives with the whole Time of Troubles thing (that was originally an in game event as far as I know with the novels written afterwards).
I'm personally using that perspective to present the Realms in a different light. Starting in 1st ed, I'll have the gods be remote. Priests will, on occasion, receive visions and they interpret those visions to determine what they need to do. IMO it's much more interesting to have a priest wander into the PC's camp and say "I was sent here by Selune to warn you all about the owl that flies with one wing" then to have Selune turn up and say "Yo! Watch out for Lord Humperdink. He be real evil." Of course, I'm also houseruling out all the RSEs as well (starting with Time of Troubles). To emphasise the importance of something, angels will on the extremely rare occasion come down to Toril and speak to mortals on behalf of a deity. And that happening should tell you to stop and pay attention because nothing is as important as this. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
Edited by - JohnLynch on 18 Jan 2013 08:44:51 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 10:08:57
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I think your description is more in line with how the Realms were initially described, back in the Dragons and Old Grey Box.
It seems like deities were once rarely seen walking the land, they interacted almost entirely through their agents, through priests, through dreams and visions and communion. Sometimes they would send a proxy, an aleax, even an avatar ... far more likely they would manifest "miracles" of an often ambiguous nature.
The actual presence of a deity would signify only the most dire of events, some kind of interaction of such power or importance that no one else could handle it. Or a symbolic reward for a mighty champion of the faith. FR novels (at least as of 2E) tend towards describing things of world-shaping importance, so it's not unreasonable for a deity or two to drop in or be seen manipulating people from behind the curtains. It didn't take long for the slippery slope of auctorial oneupmanship and power inflation to escalate such things towards ridiculous extrems. It seems now that nothing ever happens in the Realms unless it's somehow initiated or manipulated by a few bored deities, even the constant Elminster-saves-the-world-again mega NPCs were less noxious. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 11:28:30
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quote:
Originally posted by LastStand
A little off-topic...of the off-topicness...but the scene where Mask talks to Shar at the end is one of my most reread parts in the realms. It was such a good scene.
I thought it was good, too, in an unexpected way. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 18:44:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Death or return, Mask or Mystra, I'm just a bit tired of deities being at the forefront all the time. Hopefully WotC got the hint and will allow the moving and shaking to be focused on respective clergies, prophets (who may or may not be right, questionably truthful, or simply mad), and the player character priests.
And that "Mystra dead again?" plot was always more annoying that anything else. It just about reached self-parodying levels of silliness.
I am one of the few people here who actually liked when deities made an appearance. I certainly don't want it to happen in every novel. I like stories about ordinary people, but some of my favorite novels involved deities (though admittedly some of the Avatar series was boring). I'm sick of them dying though, and I don't want them to be involved so much that it results in more epic battles between deities and ends up killing one of them (Eilistraee and Lolth, for example). But the deities are one of my favorite aspects of the Realms. If they aren't involved as much, fine, but I still want them to be there.
Still, I'm not opposed to it being through priests either. In fact, I'd like to see more stories featuring priests of elven deities or some of the lesser known gods, though I like ones of Lathander/Amanautaur.
But, I'm aware many people feel differently. As long as the deities don't diseppear entirely, I'm okay. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 20:14:40
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| I think the Avatar series was poorly written and it was not boring because of Gods being present. I like deities being involved in stories. Does the presence of Hermes detract from the Odyssey? I don't think so... |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2013 : 21:49:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I think the Avatar series was poorly written and it was not boring because of Gods being present. I like deities being involved in stories. Does the presence of Hermes detract from the Odyssey? I don't think so...
There is quite a difference between the intervention of gods in stories like the Odyssey and how gods have been portrayed and utilized in the major plots of the published Realms.
Dying and returning left and right is one big difference. A few examples were excusable (interesting even). The prevalence of it now is a bit grating, just like the return of the major ancient empires. It's become an overused trope within the same setting in too short a time. The setting's metaplot feels like it's retreading upon itself. |
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Mask is Alive?!?!
