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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Apr 2013 : 23:43:48
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So 3e had a belief called dark moon heresy
Basically selune and shar are the same thing. If a cleric got powers and believed in this.do you think it would be from shar or something else
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2013 : 03:13:36
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In terms of my own Realms, I've left this up to the individual alignment/belief of the particular cleric. If they believe in Selūne, then that is where the power for their divine spells originates. And vice verse if the cleric instead believes in Shar.
Where the power *actually* comes from, is a matter I've yet to decide upon. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2013 : 06:15:31
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Shar would naturally want to seduce Selune's followers... and vice versa to a lesser extent... but each goddess would "disown" and directly/indirectly slay any of their own followers who fell to venerating the other.
This means, in my mind, that the Dark Moon heresy is not supported by either Shar or Selune, but in fact must be perpetrated by a third power. I can't see how Selune and Shar would cooperate enough to mutually support/embrace/tolerate this heresy... I think it would infuriate both of them. This conclusion is supported by the alignment restriction; clerics of the heresy must be LN/N/CN, while Selune is CG and Shar is NE (CE in my mind, but that's just me). Edit: This line of reasoning doesn't provide as much support for my earlier thought as I thought it did, but I stand by my thought: Selune and Shar both hate the heresy just as much as their churches do.
If I had to pick a deity to be the real power behind the heresy, I would look at Malar (undoubtedly interested in adding the Darkness and Moon elements to his own portfolio) or Mask (just for the intrigue) or Leira (just for the intrigue and because she's the ultimate deceiver). It's possible that any of these are in cahoots with Shar, but... then Shar would reap all the benefits and what's in it for the "smaller" power? It would have to be a powerful and/or well-connected and/or well-concealed power, considering Shar's strength and temperament.
Cyric would only work (in my mind) if the heresy was brand new and destined to blow up very soon, because he's too nutzo to organize anything or keep the charade going for more than 5 mins. But he would probably successfully pin the blame for it on someone else.
All just my two cents. I'm with the OP; interested in hearing how others are handling this.
edit: non-deity options could be fun. Gargauth might be an interesting "where did that come from?" candidate. What if Mephistopheles has the hots (zomg xaeyruudh, that's so 90s) for the sisters but neither of them will be seen with him (fiends are not fashionable, hellooo!) so he's stealing some of their precious worshipers and hence bleeding them of a trickle of power, just to annoy them?  |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 27 Apr 2013 06:30:18 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2013 : 13:54:40
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I had something like this in the East (SE, actually) - a goddess that used the Yin-Yang symbol and had 'two faces'.
Shar is NOT darkness... Shar is shadow. Shadow is the 'child' of light and darkness... that is where the canon mythos goes astray. In my own, non-canon cosmology, Selune is both Shar's sister and mother. Selune was raped by her father, Erebus (because light, too, was born from the darkness, as all things were 'in the beginning'). Although normal genetics should not apply to such beings, it could be why Shar's just a little nuts.
As for the heresy, it once again all goes back to 'belief' (Faith). If a large enough group of people have deep faith in an idea, then it becomes reality (for them). They should be able to draw power from this new amalgam just as easily as any priest would. A tiny bit of Shar and Selune's energies would be diverted to that, and I don't think they'd have much choice in the matter. However, if the group (and energy being 'siphoned' becomes large enough, then one or both may try to send agents to end the heresy.
I think normally most deities simply ignore heresies when they start, because they are so insignificant (at first) and tend to die-off on their own after awhile. Its only when they begin 'catching on' (becoming wildly popular) that the gods feel the need to step-in and 'set things right'. The Lathander/Aumanator one is one such that 'got out of control' (or, conversely, it could be something that is supposed to happen every so often, in cyclic fashion).
For all we know, Beshada and Tymora might be the original gods, and Tyche was the heresy.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2013 : 14:55:18
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Reading Ed a lot, this link explains everything to do with the Gods of Toril. Even Heresies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05av9iJvgiQ |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2013 : 02:07:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I had something like this in the East (SE, actually) - a goddess that used the Yin-Yang symbol and had 'two faces'.
I hear ya, especially about heresies being based more on belief than on reality... mortals' understanding of anything extraplanar can hardly hope to resemble objective reality. It makes sense that the heresy would be beneath the goddess' notice in the early stages.
And I would agree with a heresy gaining conscious support from both sides in a "faith makes it so" self-perpetuating cycle, for any other two powers who aren't so violently opposed to each other. Me, personally, I can see Shar wanting to corrupt Selune's followers and Selune wanting to redeem Shar's followers, but both of them being so angered by any of their own followers "falling" to the other that neither of them could willingly support the heresy. Obviously, that's just me though.
But I do kinda like the yin-yang lens for looking at Selune and Shar. Murking things up a bit, to be less black and white. In the canon mythos Mask is shadow, making him (in your shadow-being-dark-plus-light analogy) a child of Shar and perhaps Amaunator... now that's a nutzo family unit. So where does Mask fit into the picture if Shar is shadow? Does Mask take Shar's place as darkness/night? Is Erebus your interpretation of Mask, or is Erebus something else? |
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dark moon hearsy
