| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 12:26:06
|
Hey scribes. XP loss in terms of casting wish/permanency etc spells has been explained away by some to be fairness and such...
1)What do you guys think? Is it to keep classes fair?
2)Can Xp loss be countered or escaped from asides from dm houseruling?
3)And in terms of lore is it described as losing a piece of yourself/giving up your essence?
|
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 12:57:43
|
| Personally, I much prefer the pre-3E style of limiting these spells. Casting wish would basically age you five years, casting a permanency would basically cost you one point of Constitution. Gold and XP are cheap, you can always pick up a sword and go get yourself some more ... but pre-3E, these costs were essentially permanent unless you had access to wishes and exotic (single-use) magic items which could reverse the losses. This helped make wishes (already cast on scrolls or items) and permanent magic items far more precious, they couldn't be purchased by simply dumping a pile of gold and XP onto a PHB table. |
[/Ayrik] |
 |
|
|
Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 14:07:47
|
| Actually I just found out about the Pathfinder method, which is more easier, just pay the gp equivalent in diamond dust. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
|
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4690 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 14:27:53
|
As the Editions have changed so has the mechanics, a wizard used to earn EX points for making a magic item, though there still was penalty to stats for certain spells. Aging for haste, stat drains and so on.
The reason for changes are to try to balance the game, then fluff added to explain why the effect occurs. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 14:44:00
|
I think the XP loss isn't so much to keep classes fair or balanced, as it is a means to limit high powered spells from unbalancing the game.
I don't know of a means by which XP loss can be countered, beyond house rules. Speaking of which: In my 3E Realms game I allowed my players to share in the XP cost for things like item creation, but not for spellcasting.
In lore terms, I view it as a loss of personal essence or "self," but also that the essence is transferred. Flavor wise I like to tell my players they have a personal connection to magic items they've crafted; a sort of subtle link or unconscious urge to view a crafted item as a part of themselves. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 14:45:16
|
| Myself, and several DMs before and after me, entirely ignored aging from haste spells, arbitrarily stating it would technically age the target by days or perhaps a week. I heard a legend during my DM apprenticeship, an incredible tale wherein a band of heroes defeated their quickling adversaries with haste spells. I have also overheard worrisome speculation about dark elves torturing shorter-lived races with haste magics. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2013 : 11:32:41
|
How to avoid XP loss for an action depends on the action you want to take.
For example instead of casting a wish yourself get an item or summon a creature that can grant you wishes. |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11883 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2013 : 15:02:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Hey scribes. XP loss in terms of casting wish/permanency etc spells has been explained away by some to be fairness and such...
1)What do you guys think? Is it to keep classes fair?
2)Can Xp loss be countered or escaped from asides from dm houseruling?
3)And in terms of lore is it described as losing a piece of yourself/giving up your essence?
Its definitely to keep the classes fair, and also to keep this spell as only used as a last ditch effort. Also, given that it can give permanent additions to ability scores, you don't want this easily cast. XP loss can be somewhat countered using some of the Book of Vile Darkness rules involving sacrifices, but the amount you'd have to sacrifice is significant. As to its description, it would be described much as creating a magic item is.... you're initiating something that requires a large amount of power, and as a result it will be harder for you to attain the next "degree of power" aka level.
On the pathfinder requiring no xp loss, I'd definitely recommend any DM involved with that hold to it strictly. It requires a 25,000 gp diamond.... not diamond dust... not a collection of 10 2,500 gp diamonds.... such that casting a wish spell consists of finding one of these special diamonds. Granted, maybe there's some spell which can gather diamond dust or diamonds and "join" them together to have one object of the appropriate sort, so that its not insanely impossible, but I'd recommend that any such spell also loses some of the collective value (i.e. maybe 30000 gp of diamond dust converts to a single 25000 gp diamond). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2013 : 09:31:18
|
| Neither the PHB 3.5 nor the D20SRD mention any diamond needed to cast wish |
|
|
|
Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2013 : 09:39:34
|
| @_Jarlaxle_: It is the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules that states using a 25,000 gp diamond to offset XP loss. |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to?  |
Edited by - Xnella Moonblade-Thann on 11 Jan 2013 09:40:37 |
|
|
|
_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2013 : 10:55:59
|
Ah thanks, I somehow missread the last part of sleyvas' post
|
|
|
|
Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2013 : 08:59:18
|
| no sweat, _Jarlaxle_, I'm sure many of us scribes have done that in other scrolls |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
XP Loss
