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Feawen
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jan 2004 : 13:54:42
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Which novels tie in with the games?....by tie in i mean feature's major characters or places....
also, what are the best novels with elves in them?
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-=Current Character: Iyanden, Chaotic Neutral Elven Swashbuckler=- |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2004 : 16:09:55
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| I dont think any "tie-in" with games, but i do know of many books that had been written to come after the games. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2004 : 17:13:36
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Eleminster in Myth drannor is a good elf book.
-Rogue |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2004 : 18:08:38
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| There were novelizations available for the Baldur's Gate games, Planescape: Torment, and some of the older games(such as Pools of Radiance). On elvish books,I'd also recommend Evermeet: Island of Elves . |
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Zacas
Learned Scribe
USA
261 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2004 : 22:46:34
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Okay... Pool of Radiance, Curse of Azure Bonds, and Pools of Darkness all coalign with the books of the same title...
as mention baldur's gate, BG2:Shadows of Amn, and Throne of Bhaal also have novels...
Then also Drizzt makes an appearance and joins your group in the game "Menzoberranzan"... This is supposed to be aligned with which ever novel in the Legacy of the Drow where Drizzt returned to Menzo...
Pool of Radiance: Ruins of MythDrannor also had a novel that was supposed to clue in on things in the game...
And the Cancelled, Neverwinter Nights anthology book (which according to Wizards or Amazon.com, originally was supposed to give hints to things in the game, even though it WAS to be an anthology... but it was cancelled...
Other than that.. i don't think there were any other game-based novels.. |
I am like a superhero, with no powers or motivation.
I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, please keep me here.
People like you are the reason people like me are on medication. |
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Feawen
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 12:35:30
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I was aware of the novels of BG,BG2 and ToB, but i dunno, they seem so....like a cheap version of the game, being so small....
thanks for your recommendations....ill definately head down to my local bookshop to blow some $$$ on the books you recommeded :)
looking forward to reading about Drizzt and that island of elves :)
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-=Current Character: Iyanden, Chaotic Neutral Elven Swashbuckler=- |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2004 : 16:52:33
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| The story in the books is sadly crap and boring, pretty much like the games themselves. They had a good idea with the bhaalspawn, and got off to a good start with BG1, but then they murdered it! Murder most foul! |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2004 : 07:23:54
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The Plancescape: Torment novelization ain't no prize, either. I had the distinct misfortune of reading it, and it might as well not have the same title as the game. As for the BG ones, I've heard nothing good about them, though I'm led to believe that the Throne of Bhaal novelization is at least palatable.
For novels with elves, pick up almost anything by Elaine Cunningham. Evermeet: Island of Elves, as mentioned, the Songs & Swords series, as well as Counselors & Kings (mostly human cast, but the major "villain" is elven). Starlight & Shadows if you want drow plus some aquatic elves and a Star elf. |
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Signal-9
Acolyte
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 02:02:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Cherrn
The story in the books is sadly crap and boring, pretty much like the games themselves. They had a good idea with the bhaalspawn, and got off to a good start with BG1, but then they murdered it! Murder most foul!
Baldurs gate 2 was a crappy game? 
what have you been smoking...? can i have some  |
"Dont make him come near me, Tanis !. I assure you. I am capable of this, truly. What i have sought all my life is within my grasp. I will let nothing stop me. Look at Caramon's face, Tanis ! He Knows ! I kiled him once. I can do it again..."
- Raistlin (Dragons of Spring Dawning)
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2004 : 09:11:13
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| I actually like BG2 one hell of a lot better than BG1. The first one just had way, way too many empty areas, and the character interaction between the joinable NPCs was next to nil. |
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Kameron M. Franklin
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 03:25:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
As for the BG ones, I've heard nothing good about them, though I'm led to believe that the Throne of Bhaal novelization is at least palatable.
IIRC, Phil Athan, currently the managing editor of the FR novel line, wrote the first two BG books. Throne of Bhaal was written by a Bioware employee. I've only read Baldur's Gate. Don't remember much about it, other than the disgusting scene where Adbel stumbles into the ettercap lair. I think I bought it mainly for the game tie-in. |
"You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride |
Edited by - Kameron M. Franklin on 25 Jan 2004 03:26:50 |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 04:02:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Signal-9
Baldurs gate 2 was a crappy game?
what have you been smoking...? can i have some
I found the story in BG2 laughable at best (The Blair Witch ripoff in those hills where the ranger cabin is comes to mind). Also I didn't find the story very realistic realmswise that is. I mean, Nadia had Iron Golems(!!!) in the basement of her keep. If they could afford Iron Golems then I bet she could afford the hire the chosen of Mystra to clean out the keep instead of hiring a few no-name adventurers that came by the inn. The one's who made the game didn't think about making a game with a good story, they thought about making a game where you could become silly high lvl. And please tell me, why on earth did the Cowled Wizards not do anything about Jon Irenicus when he was living right beneath their noses. They didn't do anything until he got outside, even though, if they really wanted, they could have found out if he was casting spells inside or not. Also, Imoen couldn't die until after you freed her from Spellhold. And for some reason I found it extremely convenient that you could find some of the characters from BG1 in and around Atkathla (Xzar, Montaron, and Adjantis comes to mind) When you summon the avatar of Rillifane why doesn't he kill Irenicus, I mean, it's the avatar of a god and he only cleans out the rabble that are tainting his city, why didn't he kill who was the cause of it all ? Drizzt(!!!) helping you fight the vampires in the sewers?! Imoen your sister?! How convenient was that that she was also in Candlekeep with you? Also you can acquire a dragon's horde worth of magical items which I find rather silly.
Basically Bg2 is a BG1 version of a Powergamers dream. Sacrificing a good idea and a good story for lvls, and things that give you lvls.(Iron Golems!!!)
Don't get me started on Bg2 ToB... Cmon... A city filled with Bhaalspawn and guards in the sewers that your party would have to break a sweat defeating. What on earth are guards that are of such a high lvl doing in the sewers?
And replacing Cyric as the god of Murder ?! Cyric would have seen that coming a mile away and would have killed you with his divine presence as soon as you started to rise in lvls. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Signal-9
Acolyte
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 06:42:33
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Cherrn, i respect your opinion of course. But I would like to know which D&D game you found very good? (not a flame).
Sorry I just loved BG2 and was addicted to it...(some times late at night It calls me to come back and play again...shhh...what was that?.... "yes..yes, ill insert the CD's and install again...hush now... They are coming...")
on a serious note, does anyone know a good game to play now? (other than temple of elemental evil. Im playing that but.. bugs galore!). |
"Dont make him come near me, Tanis !. I assure you. I am capable of this, truly. What i have sought all my life is within my grasp. I will let nothing stop me. Look at Caramon's face, Tanis ! He Knows ! I kiled him once. I can do it again..."
- Raistlin (Dragons of Spring Dawning)
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 08:16:26
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This is going to be fun. I have hopped off of the BG2 bandwagon long ago (currently riding the KotOR one), but hey, why not play devil's advocate?
Cherrn said:
quote:
I mean, Nadia had Iron Golems(!!!) in the basement of her keep. If they could afford Iron Golems then I bet she could afford the hire the chosen of Mystra to clean out the keep instead of hiring a few no-name adventurers that came by the inn.
Let's see the FR novels.
1. Spellfire -- Shandril's spellfire channelor levels should never have been enough to let her defeat dracoliches, beholders, and an archmage or two.
2. Drizzt -- he defeated a marilith, who has how many attacks per round? Oh, and a balor. Whereas, in reality, those two should've had him for snack.
quote:
The one's who made the game didn't think about making a game with a good story, they thought about making a game where you could become silly high lvl.
Can I now say this? "Ed Greenwood and R.A. Salvatore didn't think about writing books with good stories; they thought about writing books with ridiculous munckinish characters whose luck and feats are impossible to replicate in the actual game."
quote:
They didn't do anything until he got outside, even though, if they really wanted, they could have found out if he was casting spells inside or not.
Notice that your PC can cast arcane spells inside buildings if they want to, and even without paying for the licenses, the Cowled would not teleport in.
quote:
Also, Imoen couldn't die until after you freed her from Spellhold.
Plot convenience type of things. Don't tell me you haven't seen this kind of devices before in other games -- certain characters that must be in your party at certain times, certain characters that would just not die, etc.
quote:
When you summon the avatar of Rillifane why doesn't he kill Irenicus, I mean, it's the avatar of a god and he only cleans out the rabble that are tainting his city, why didn't he kill who was the cause of it all ?
Why didn't the Seldarine send their avatars to defend Evereska in Return of the Archwizards trilogy? Why didn't Moradin manifest an avatar in the attack of Mithral Hall?
quote:
Basically Bg2 is a BG1 version of a Powergamers dream. Sacrificing a good idea and a good story for lvls, and things that give you lvls.(Iron Golems!!!)
Oh. So you must've missed all the NPC interactions, the NPC sub-quests, and things that add to the story, then. Hmm. Did we play the same game? Face it, pal, if the level cap is extended, they're going to have to throw more challenging opponents at you. What, would you rather be fighting goblins at level 15?
quote:
And replacing Cyric as the god of Murder ?! Cyric would have seen that coming a mile away and would have killed you with his divine presence as soon as you started to rise in lvls.
Hey, why haven't the evil gods slaughtered all the Chosen of Mystra already?
Signal-9 said:
quote:
on a serious note, does anyone know a good game to play now? (other than temple of elemental evil. Im playing that but.. bugs galore!).
No. But give Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic a try. Hordes of Underdark is decent, but doesn't compare to KotOR. I'm a bit unenthusiastic with the currently available RPGs. They are either hack'n'slash (Dungeon Siege, anyone? Ugh!) or buggy pieces of electronic garbage (ToEE). |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 08:37:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Feawen
[...] also, what are the best novels with elves in them?
The best elf book for the Realms is Evermeet: Island of Elves, hands down. Right Rad!?  
Other than that, Elaine Cunningham's earlier (non-drow) books are good. The creation of the moonblades are shown in Evermeet, but they first appear in Realmslore through her book Elfshadow. Elfsong takes a look at spellsong, an elven magical art, and Silver Shadows is almost all elves. (Not that the latter is actually as good as the other too, in my opinion. The only good parts are at the start and end -- with Danilo. Arilyn's just not as interesting without Danilo . . . .) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 10:26:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
The best elf book for the Realms is Evermeet: Island of Elves, hands down. Right Rad!?
Without a doubt, Bookwyrm, without a doubt 
::cowers as Bookwyrm and Arion Elenim stand over him tapping their copies of Evermeet menacingly in their hands::  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Zacas
Learned Scribe
USA
261 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 12:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
Without a doubt, Bookwyrm, without a doubt
::cowers as Bookwyrm and Arion Elenim stand over him tapping their copies of Evermeet menacingly in their hands::
::blinks and cringes at the Book-tapping, then swats at Bookwyrm and Arion::
CAREFUL! You'll damage the books! |
I am like a superhero, with no powers or motivation.
I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, please keep me here.
People like you are the reason people like me are on medication. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 13:06:35
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::Bookwyrm looks down at his book, then at Rad.::
Hmm, you're right. He's got a very thick skull; just look how long it took him to realize we were telling the truth about the Elven Bible!  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 15:59:32
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To answer your questions:
Winterfox said:
quote:
Let's see the FR novels.
1. Spellfire -- Shandril's spellfire channelor levels should never have been enough to let her defeat dracoliches, beholders, and an archmage or two.
2. Drizzt -- he defeated a marilith, who has how many attacks per round? Oh, and a balor. Whereas, in reality, those two should've had him for snack.
I don't really see what this has to do with what you quoted me for. I was talking about how ridicolous it was that she had Iron Golems in her own basement of her own keep.
quote:
Can I now say this? "Ed Greenwood and R.A. Salvatore didn't think about writing books with good stories; they thought about writing books with ridiculous munckinish characters whose luck and feats are impossible to replicate in the actual game."
Elminster took how many years to acquire all his lvls ? 2000 ? 3000 ?
How many did the hero in the BG series take? 2 ? or even 5 perhaps. And the 8 mil xp cap was set to more than what elminster had acquired in 2nd edition since he was a 29th lvl mage at the time. Drizzt a munchkin ?? Have you even ever read his stats ? Hmmmm lets see, a Drow male with 3 classes that aren't his favoured class. That's a 60% xp penalty. A +2 defending scimitar and a +3 frost scimitar. For a lvl 18 character ? Im sorry but I fail to see the munchkinism (is that a word?) shining through when it comes to drizzt's character. I thought a munchkin character was a character that was maximized in every possible way. Drizzt sure ain't a maximized character.
quote:
Notice that your PC can cast arcane spells inside buildings if they want to, and even without paying for the licenses, the Cowled would not teleport in.
Poor fault in the game. In the game the Cowled Wizards would teleport in if a street fight involving spells broke out but they wouldn't do it if the same happened inside an inn ? Do you get diplomatic immunity by being inside and are basically above the law when you are ?
quote:
Plot convenience type of things. Don't tell me you haven't seen this kind of devices before in other games -- certain characters that must be in your party at certain times, certain characters that would just not die, etc.
Again I find this very silly. It makes the game feel linear.
quote:
Why didn't the Seldarine send their avatars to defend Evereska in Return of the Archwizards trilogy? Why didn't Moradin manifest an avatar in the attack of Mithral Hall?
Gamewise, sending avatars is a poor way for the GM to help his players when he can see that they are in too much trouble. Using avatars to solve players problems is downright silly. And if you look back, did the Seldarine need to manifest an avatar? Did Mithral Hall need Moradin there to beat back the Drow or the Orcs ? No they didn't, and that's why there wasn't any avatars there. Really, Rillifane's avatar wasn't needed at all, they could have left him out because the PC's and allies could have defeated the creatures in the city. What I find silly is that when you summon him he doesn't finish the job.
Rillifane: " There, cleaned house guys, but I left you the greatest threat so you can risk your lives in saving my city instead of me killing him where he stands. Have fun guys!" *waves*
PC party: " Duhhh kay..."
quote:
Oh. So you must've missed all the NPC interactions, the NPC sub-quests, and things that add to the story, then. Hmm. Did we play the same game? Face it, pal, if the level cap is extended, they're going to have to throw more challenging opponents at you. What, would you rather be fighting goblins at level 15?
No I didn't miss all the NPC interactions. And as I already mentioned I did try the NPC subquests (Nadia's keep with Iron Golems) I just found a lot of them extremely silly. Honestly, didn't you find the Blair Witch Project ripoff just a little bit silly ?
Oh and see how realistic you find this:
The group of Lvl 20 adventurers leave Waterdeep. They smile to eachother, the sun is high in the sky. It is a good day. After a few hours of travel they reach place on the road where a tree has been knocked over the road. Out of the bushes to the side jumps a Balor.
Balor: "There's a 10 gold toll to be paid to pass here! And you better pay cos I got friends here!" *nods slightly and out of the bushes around the road jumps a Great Wyrm Red Dragon, several other Baatezu, and a pair of Yugoloths, one of them being an Ultraloth*
Red Dragon: "Yeah you damn well better pay the toll, or else i'll cut you!"
The group of adventurers being PC's does the thing that was expected of them and attacks the raiders. After the dust clears the adventurers have won. The fighter wipes the sweat of his brow and says: "Well, that's the 8th red dragon today, who want to carry it's hide ? I cant cos I already got the hide from 6 of the others."
Wouldn't it have been more realistic if this group of high lvl adventurers had met a few orcs doing this ? Seriously, BG2 is too beefed up with powerful baddies that exist only for the purpose of giving the players enough xp to reach the xp cap. Baddies, who didn't have any reason to be there in the first place story wise. Judging by what lurks and lairs in and around Atkathla, Atkathla and surroundings is the most dangerous place in the Realms entire.
quote:
Hey, why haven't the evil gods slaughtered all the Chosen of Mystra already?
That's easy. They wouldn't want Mystra on their behinds trying to kill them at every possible opportunity she would get. And as soon as one of her chosen did get in a little trouble Mystra herself, and allies would help her out. So killing all of her chosen would be downright stupid. And no god would be that stupid, or risk the wrath of Mystra by doing that.
Signal-9 said:
quote:
Cherrn, i respect your opinion of course. But I would like to know which D&D game you found very good? (not a flame).
Well I liked BG1. It was down to earth. Had a nice plot and a nice storyline and it had an xp cap set at a sufficient ammount so the PC stayed at a reasonable lvl. Also, it was original. Same reason why I like temple of Elemental Evil. Sadly that game is rather buggy  |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Signal-9
Acolyte
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 18:37:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Cherrn
.... Well I liked BG1. It was down to earth. Had a nice plot and a nice storyline and it had an xp cap set at a sufficient ammount so the PC stayed at a reasonable lvl. Also, it was original. Same reason why I like temple of Elemental Evil. Sadly that game is rather buggy
Yea, TOEE would be a great game even with the bugs if they allowed people to make their own "mods" to it. (like NWN). A toolset would really help that game. but ah well...
"Signal-9 says: 'what the hell! how did my BG2 CD's get onto my desk?'... calls for girlfriend and realizes she is out shopping... a voice whispers: ' he is all alone now...' " |
"Dont make him come near me, Tanis !. I assure you. I am capable of this, truly. What i have sought all my life is within my grasp. I will let nothing stop me. Look at Caramon's face, Tanis ! He Knows ! I kiled him once. I can do it again..."
- Raistlin (Dragons of Spring Dawning)
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 20:26:00
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Well I've decided to add my demented voice to the scroll. While I agree that BG1 was great ( perhaps even the best... subjective of course). BG2 and the latter BG2:TOB were none the less, Sequels. And all things made to continue a line from a previous thing usually have less that perfect sets. After all, After level in the series (end of TotSC and begining of SoA) things become both intresting and difficult. I say this on behalf of creators. When beings get powerful one must throw more powerful things after them, thus as they defeat evil (or good) they become more powerful, thus the use of even more power and said beings becoming even more powerful. I'm sure there's a name to that theory but I don't know it.
BG2 unoriginal? Yes, but after BG1 they could do nothing but build on what was done. To make it completly original it would no longer be BG. I felt the vague references to various other things ( Blair witch and to Us Canadians, the Drunken 'Newfie' Sailor... a Canadian joke) was rather light hearted, and brought some smiles to my otherwse dismal out look on all things. The Intra-party banters also lacking in BG1 were very appreciated in BG2.
As for some of the other quirks, it is a Computer game. Unlike a DM it is bound by certain AI walls.Now I'm not inclined when it comes to programing, however there is a basic understanding that computers must follow stated rules. If they didn't we would have AI ( which should be thought of As I or Intelligence as Artificial Intelligence is improbable, unless you bluffing about what you know then It isn't Artificial... Those of you more educated that I, please feel free to correct my rambling. I am working with limited brain cells and paranoid insane thoughts ).
As for originallity... Nothing is original.. No works, thoughts, deeds or anything really. Everything able to be done has been done. Everything to be thought has been thought. Information lost is then 'discovered'. I.E. All my own thoughts are not my own as somewhere at sometime the thoughts I may think now have been thought by a person so far removed from me that it is not mine but theirs. Simple really.
And as for Mystra... You beef her up far too much. She was supposedly mortal. And what is mortal may die. Even the Deities are not immune to Death, from eachother or neglect... Even from Mortals... But I ramble far too much and bore you all so I will cease my prattle now (I can hear your cheers of relief).
I see your opinion, and while I cannot say I respect it totally (since if I did I would have bitten my tongue and said nothing as that is simply what I should do... but cannot.). In closing Your far too critical of the Game... And I? Far too fanatical for the game. So we are each at fault... I more so. I mean no disrespect, and no ill feelings... Just putting my copper in ( To most it's two coppers, but I am cheap.. and NOONE wants to hear my two FULL coppers..)... Well... There it tis then. |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 02:16:44
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| Cherrn: Oh. You like ToEE. Then I don't think there's anything more to be said between us. |
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Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 03:36:29
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Yes well as said before, that none of the novels are actually linked to the games. If you think about it who would play a game based entirely on a book, knowing full well the storyline and outcome of the novel it'd give too much away before you even begin playing. But the game would have to include the basic stuff about FR just to keep us Fans happy though.
I see you've changed your image Cardinal... You don't look as evil. Is this a sign maybe that you've changed your alignment? Well you do know that I can not allow this to happen. No worshipper of mine is to be a goody two shoes, unless... you've made other alliances.
*scrutinizes Cardinal under a fierce glare* |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 09:16:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
Cherrn: Oh. You like ToEE. Then I don't think there's anything more to be said between us.
That's an odd thing to say. Why not ? ToEE is a classic and is basically what started the dungeon crawling and pre-written campaigns. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 09:31:20
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No, no, I mean the electronic adaptation. I've played bad games, and I've played horrible games, but ToEE falls into the category of "unplayable" due to bugs and "godawful" due to bland writing, mediocre voiceacting, and the lack of descriptions of items, feats, and spells. Quite simply, the worst CRPG I've ever had the misfortune to play. The combat was good at first, but after a while it got old -- and the monsters cheat to compensate for their poor AI, too. A critter with 12HD but CR of 3, anyone?
The best way to describe this piece of electronic garbage is this: a random bunch of monsters dropped into a bunch of random rooms. My party never quite knew why it was in the temple and slaughtering everything that moves and is hostile. The sub-quests in the towns (and the temple) are unrewarding and annoying -- low XP reward, involves a lot of running back and forth between NPCs. The dialogue's not particularly entertaining to plod through. And the bugs! Slow-downs (FYI, my PC far, far exceeds the optimal requirements for the game), crashes to desktop, unplayability of the temple nodes, creatures getting stuck in the wall, the go-to-hell pathfinding. It must've got more bugs than all the Bioware games combined together.
It's amazing how much Troika can mess up, even when they don't have to do the work from scratch. Engine is rehauled from Arcanum, material is already written in the original module... and they still managed to release this failure. |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 16:07:24
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| You do know that they have patched the game and fixed most of the bugs right ? That monster stuck in walls one sure was irritating |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 01:58:21
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I had the first patch, and it did very little to fix things. I've read the bugfixes in the second patch, but I'm unimpressed. All software released will have bugs -- all. But the difference between ToEE and most games is that ToEE is barely finished and barely beta-tested when it was released. Most games, at least, went through QA and testing, generally enough that they are playable. I didn't pay to beta-test for Troika, you know.
Besides which, no patch can ever fix the lackluster story, the awful writing and the horrible voiceacting. I have no motivation whatsoever to go back and finish the game. |
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Signal-9
Acolyte
Canada
37 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 18:26:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
I had the first patch, and it did very little to fix things. I've read the bugfixes in the second patch, but I'm unimpressed. All software released will have bugs -- all. But the difference between ToEE and most games is that ToEE is barely finished and barely beta-tested when it was released. Most games, at least, went through QA and testing, generally enough that they are playable. I didn't pay to beta-test for Troika, you know.
Besides which, no patch can ever fix the lackluster story, the awful writing and the horrible voiceacting. I have no motivation whatsoever to go back and finish the game.
Im a Software Developer Engineer, and yes all software has ( to some level) bugs or exploit problems. I have played TOEE, and I can just say one thing: "BETA" its not "alpha" its not the "Gold" copy, its still beta.
I like the Graphical Engine, and I like the gameplay (without the buggyness of it all).
If they spent 4 more months they would of had a polished game. Not to mention the bang for your buck. No multiplayer, No Toolset. You just get a basic storyline, basic quests, and a re-done graphical engine. Im sorry to say that... I think this game could of been a really good one.
Anyhow, I think I may quickly finish the game with my NG Aligned party and re-install Baldurs Gate II for some good old fashion fun! |
"Dont make him come near me, Tanis !. I assure you. I am capable of this, truly. What i have sought all my life is within my grasp. I will let nothing stop me. Look at Caramon's face, Tanis ! He Knows ! I kiled him once. I can do it again..."
- Raistlin (Dragons of Spring Dawning)
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Edited by - Signal-9 on 27 Jan 2004 18:32:33 |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 12:52:53
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Hey, I liked Temple just for its character creation. It's the first CRPG that I've ever played where you can create a party of adventurers and equip them with feats to compliment one another. A half-orc with a magical glaive (reach), combat reflexes and improved critical really does some amazing things. The rogue/fighter (1 level there) wielding a greatsword with power attack and cleave really did some damage. Also, the sorcerer passing out belts of giant strength +6 really made things easy.
The balor near the end annoyed me, though. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2004 : 16:27:20
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| The balor . . . "annoyed you"? Isn't that like saying that a 20d6 fireball is a bit warm? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 04:39:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Hey, I liked Temple just for its character creation. It's the first CRPG that I've ever played where you can create a party of adventurers and equip them with feats to compliment one another. A half-orc with a magical glaive (reach), combat reflexes and improved critical really does some amazing things. The rogue/fighter (1 level there) wielding a greatsword with power attack and cleave really did some damage. Also, the sorcerer passing out belts of giant strength +6 really made things easy.
The balor near the end annoyed me, though.
Except that half the feats and the spells don't work quite right, the random number generator is clearly fudged, and most of the items have no descriptions; some don't even tell you what they do (like stat boosts or properties like freedom). And the spells' descriptions are lousy. My, can you imagine that? Apparently, copying the big words straight out of rulebooks -- they don't even have to invent new ones! -- was too much for Troika. Truly jaw-dropping.
Speaking of easy? Yes, it's easy. There was no challenge after you get used to it, and hitting the level cap was a breeze. Most fights went: fireball, fireball, fighters hit this, fighters hit that, cleric casts flamestrike. Bam. Done. Boring!
Normal software have bugs. ToEE is a bug. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 29 Jan 2004 04:44:32 |
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Games/Novels
