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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 18:40:36
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| Dragon Magazine 359 has the most comprehensive information about Myth Drannor available. The city is listed as more of an armed camp than thriving city as it was immediately drug into a war with Zhentil Keep and the drow. In 1374 the city's population is listed at 7,450 and one hundred years later in the 4E campaign guide we have it listed as 10,000. That strikes me as a really slow growth in a century for such a famous city. It's entirely possible its reflected by the fact that the city is still a semi military camp and a dangerous place to live and adventure. |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 19:47:47
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| From the little that appeared of Myth Dranor in the Blade of the Moonsea books, it really didn't seem like Myth Drannor was a mere military camp. It looked far more like it was an already established city. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 20:19:53
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| I'll have to pick that last novel up as I missed getting the hardcover when it was released. Didn't know there was some Myth Drannor love in it. :) |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2012 : 00:48:32
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| Check out my work Eilserus, you're get much information condensed into one word document. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2012 : 16:55:12
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| It could be one of the most interesting places for adventuring, just needs to return all the threats back, the fiends, the Trio Nefarious, fey'ri, phaerimm, liches, alhoon, nagas, Eldreth Veluuthra, Starym, Zhents, Sembians, Moander ... there is no place in FR more surrounded. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2012 : 18:36:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Do you have a link to it, Althen?
Candlekeep main page, Traveler's Notebooks, 2011 update, item 8 or 9. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 05:18:54
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| Feedback, Bladewind, Feedback. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 06:39:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Anyone remember Pool of Radiance? Where Phlan had a civilized part but went into the ruins/slums and cleared out baddies for the city council? Seems like you guys are describing something similar to that for Myth Drannor. Which is cool in my books, I love Phlan.
That was basically our technique on Neverwinter, and that's why I think it worked. A partially restored city, lots of adventure sites in and around the city, tons of intrigue.
I'd love to work on such a project. And I will recommend the team consider Cormanthor as a campaign book, or possibly the Dalelands (with a chapter on Myth Drannor).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 09:22:24
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| It was a good idea, tough the threats picked for Neverwinter were way off. The Abolethic Sovereignty, the Shades, Thayans, Ashmadai, none of that fits Neverwinter. Iliyanbruen fey and the Uthgard part was too short. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 14:04:49
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| If you do a Cormanthor book Erik, try and include a map of the surrounding area of Myth Drannor showing the "suburbs" around about 30 miles (please include neat places like the Lost Trench and the Keening Woods), give us a section on Elven Court, and I don't know what else. If you do and want help with research, I will offer my services for free, I worked on my essay for 2 straight years. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 15:58:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
It was a good idea, tough the threats picked for Neverwinter were way off. The Abolethic Sovereignty, the Shades, Thayans, Ashmadai, none of that fits Neverwinter. Iliyanbruen fey and the Uthgard part was too short.
I disagree in part. Had I been given free reign to create the book from scratch, I would have put in the Ashmadai (as crazy underground cultists fit Neverwinter great) and probably the Shades (off in the woods), and probably glossed/passed over the Sovereignty and the Thayans. And I would indeed have played up the fey and Uthgardt angles. But it is what it is, a microcosm of the Realms where you the DM can pick and choose what threat you want to tie in. 
An interesting aspect of the Neverwinter project was that it was crafted largely in response to the NOVELS, rather than the other way around. RAS's Gauntlgrym novel was already written, and it already brought in a lot of these major threats (particularly the Ashmadai and the Thayans, and it mentioned several of the others), and Erin's Brimstone Angels uses the Sovereignty in a supporting way. So it became sort of a kitchen sink sort of campaign setting, and I think it stands up very well with a lot going on. After all, the Realms is all about "a lot going on."
Question for the group: What major threats would you like to see in a Cormanthor campaign setting?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 16:16:54
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| I got a large list I will post tonight. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 16:48:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Question for the group: What major threats would you like to see in a Cormanthor campaign setting?
Off the top of my head... Sembia, the Zhents, Hillsfar, remaining fey'ri, the drow of Cormanthyr, any fiends or phaerimm that didn't get kicked out, Druuth Daern, lingering wild/twisted magical effects, the Monarch Reborn, my own elfbane golems, lingering magical/physical traps, and the deep gnolls from one the Candlekeep Compendia... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 17:20:36
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And Keebler Elves (they were written up in an issue of Dragon). They try to make humans fat in order to have world domination.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
The hundred year time gap is no longer off limit to the development team(or at least that is what I have gathered from discussion around here), so they could fill in how the city was reclaimed and write a few adventures that take place during that period.
The issue isn't the timejump -- the epilogue of the Last Mythal books makes it sound like Myth Drannor was once more a thriving city, and that epilogue is set just five years after the main tale.
Perhaps the epilogue was written by a 'high' elf? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 17:47:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Question for the group: What major threats would you like to see in a Cormanthor campaign setting?
Off the top of my head... Sembia, the Zhents, Hillsfar, remaining fey'ri, the drow of Cormanthyr, any fiends or phaerimm that didn't get kicked out, Druuth Daern, lingering wild/twisted magical effects, the Monarch Reborn, my own elfbane golems, lingering magical/physical traps, and the deep gnolls from one the Candlekeep Compendia...
That's a cool list (and I look forward to reading AA's as well).
I want to mention there's a certain fey'ri DDI article that should be showing up any week now . . .
And deep gnolls, eh? Cool.
An idea that struck me that is very tangential, but back when I was working on Plane Above, one of the monsters I pitched them for inclusion in the book was Ityak-Ortheel, the Elf-Eater. The still rebuilding state of Cormanthor seems like a pretty likely target for cultists who want to summon that creature up from the Abyss to destroy as many fey as possible.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 22:07:04
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If your going to bring in the elf-eater (quite possibly my favorite unique monster... I'd love to feed it... constantly  ), then we have to have some Lythari. That would be a whole "who's the predator, and who's the prey?" situation.
Maybe even a small group of Ariel in the Myth Drannor camp (they'd make excellent lookouts).
So there should be factions even within the 'civilized' portion of the ruins (some of which who would take exception to non-humans being involved in the reclamation).
Quicklings... definitely need quicklings... and Redcaps. 
EDIT: How about smaller versions, Erik? "Spawn of Ityak-Ortheel"?
EDIT2: Aside from the fey'ri, why not some other Tieflings? Seems the way to go post-4e (ties the editions together, me thinks). Some half-fiend dwarves, gnomes and halflings would be kinds fun. You could even do other tainted Fey (a fiendish Satyr is a no-brainer).
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Oct 2012 22:17:34 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 22:43:03
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| PC fight-able spawn of Ityak-Ortheel might be fun. I could see it budding younglings off it in pods or maybe they grow in a larva form on the body until old enough to somewhat defend themselves. Then again something so horribly powerful, maybe it should be unique. hehe |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 23:57:09
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The Shades would be a threat to Cormanthyr. Also, if all the deities truly do return for 5e, I would think the cult of Moander might be interested in revenge for the imprisonment of their god.
While I won't call them threats, I think the relationship between Cormanthyr, the Dalelands and Cormyr would cause some conflict. Also, if Evermeet returns their is a potential for conflict between the Myth Drannor and Evermeet for the hearts and minds of the elven people. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 02:32:50
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| Oh man Moander's cult? Yes please! We have that temple complex and caverns and tunnels under Yulash. That entire area needs some good loving in 5E. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 03:41:55
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| Um...no elf-eater please. If it's the creature from Evermeet then...*shudders* but phaerium, fey'ri, drow...sounds good to me. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 03:57:10
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| No Ityak-Ortheel, please. Not only do I think we should keep Myth Drannor's enemies list limited to those who are traditional and/or local (which also excludes the Shades), using Ityak-Ortheel is kinda like Godzilla (Gojira!) and Tokyo: simply too much destruction. I want enemies who are going to do something other than a mindless rampage that destroys everything in its path. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 03:59:15
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| Thank you, WR. I'm glad you agree with me. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 04:18:13
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Ok, kids hang on tight. My game is set 1375-1377, but with a little adaptation and different twists on the lore bits, dangers in the far future and still be created and made maddening for PC's
1) Homebrew: I have the Zhent network being backed now by diabolical forces in the form of Armaros the Resolver of Enchantments teaching Manshoon clone #whatever (I hate Fzoul, so I had Manshoon Prime dispose of him.)diabolical arcaneries and creating new soldiers equal to Greyhawk's Fiend Knights in the Great Kindom. Armaros get the souls of dead slaves to use with as he wills. Manshoon wears a tattoo on his forhead that is the equivalent of a Feat found in Book of Vile Darkness that shows he is allied with a infernal power. Several spies active and posing as legitimate business owners in the ruins who also double as treasure seekers on the sly.
2)I have a female Manshoon clone acting the part of a sage who gives info and sends adventurers out
on "treasure hunts" which are actually forays to weaking the Black Network as they go to their stockpiles and hidden bases all over the place, killing backers of the other Manshoon cloan in Zhentil Keep and trying to start a civil war in the Network by framing other wizards and clerics in power. This complicates the war with the Black Network for the elves and negotiations tend to break down as PC's are implecated in the attacks on Zhentilar interests.
3)I assigned the Mud Sorcerer's Tomb adventure to the Stonelands, and have plans to start a resurgence of the cult around the border of Anauroch, since I chose to base it on Netheril
history and Borem's heart in the Gods sourcebook (no credit here, I give credit to SES)
4)Bladshee, the Starym Moonblade, has a sliver of Moander's power in it (asked Ed about corrupting a High Magic work and liked the answer I got, I felt like I could reasonable explain this) has reunited with the council of the Eldath Veluuthra, and based out of an old Starym property in Hullock Forest. Killing traders between Sembia, Cormyr, Dales, Zhents, and Myth Drannor trying to intensify suspicians between the nations. Local cells based in Hullock Forest, Semberholme/Tangles Trees, Myth Drannor, and the Border Forest.
5)Some demonfey have escaped and set camp in the underground ruins of Myth Ondathel, who know what they could find powerwise underground and possible become relevant again.
6)Gargauth reforges the Gatekeeper Crystal, and concocts a plan to break the mythal at Myth Drannor up, and (Ed has stated in multiple places that safeholds in abundance, and portals, and teleportation circles, the mythal and whatever else tend to weaken the planar boundry of the area) use the arcane energy that escaped to shatter the boundry between Faerun and the Nine Hells and make Faerun into a 10th layer of Hell. I don't know why he would do this, other than revenge against Asmodeus. I planned to make this like a Adventure path, but the story and mechanics are killing me.
7)In the Tarynstone tunnels under Myth Drannor, there are entrances into the Underdark (or can be if an umber hulk or a purple worm make their way up) and I have an Elder Phaerimm that survied the Shades still down there with some servants, trying to influence certain members of the military, but really anything can boil up from the Underdark and attack Myth Drannor from below.
8) I have Nezras the Traitor(having trained under former Arcanists now being a Netherese arcanist but not of the shadow variety, he hates the elves due to his years of schooling in Myth Drannor.) and his comrade the Nomad of Scars (an elf out of Tsornal that got trapped with Moander during the High Magic ritual to trap him in the Darkwatch, tortured for several centuries by Moander but was able to escape) building up new armies in the Tortured Lands to head south and attack Myth Drannor again. both are 27+CL and have numerous servants, undead, and apprentices. I also wrote up Grey Dragons, but haven't finished them yet. I also have Buoyance the Archwizard lich having joined with them.
9)The Shade have spies everwhere obviously, and have discovered an elven artifact in Mhaelos (hook in Fallen Empires accessory) that could cause real damage.
Edit: Added to point #7.
Cont. |
Edited by - althen artren on 25 Oct 2012 20:21:11 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 05:12:31
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Really like the 'Moander Reborn!" angle. It would almost be like a Temple of Elemntal Evil just for FR (and I've set that module there twice). Hell, with the Cormanthor drow, you could really do it up in that fashion.
Don't forget the Sea Drow (Marels). They are fresh-water creatures (because the Moonsea is), so give them some undersea caverns with caves that lead to small ponds throughout the forest. Nothing like your PCs stopping for a drink and getting yanked in.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
No Ityak-Ortheel, please. Not only do I think we should keep Myth Drannor's enemies list limited to those who are traditional and/or local (which also excludes the Shades), using Ityak-Ortheel is kinda like Godzilla (Gojira!) and Tokyo: simply too much destruction. I want enemies who are going to do something other than a mindless rampage that destroys everything in its path.
Which is why I suggested "Spawn of Ityak-Ortheel" - creatures about the size of a gnoll (slighlty larger then human, and much more massive).
Ityak-Ortheel should definitely remain unique; its 'spawn' should NOT be children (that could grow-up into an adult version). Maybe it could inject non-elves with a parasite that eventually turns the host into a mini-version.
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Um...no elf-eater please. If it's the creature from Evermeet then...*shudders* but phaerium, fey'ri, drow...sounds good to me.
Awwww, c'mon! If you got rats, your gonna need a rat-trap. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Oct 2012 05:14:15 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 05:17:19
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| Wow, you really hate elves, don't you? As an elf lover myself, I must come to my favorite race's defense and say no elf-eater (or spawn for that matter). I think the other listed threats are quite enough. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 06:30:15
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I don't hate all elves... I like Drow.
I also like Lythari a lot (being an old Elfquest fan).
I have three groups of elves in my HB setting, and the 'drow' are the nice ones (not that they are nice, just nice by comparison). The elf groups range from mean to meaner to meanest.
And all of them kill non-elves trespassing on their lands on sight. They've seen how humans spread like locusts. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Oct 2012 06:30:42 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 06:39:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't hate all elves... I like Drow.
I also like Lythari a lot (being an old Elfquest fan).
I have three groups of elves in my HB setting, and the 'drow' are the nice ones (not that they are nice, just nice by comparison). The elf groups range from mean to meaner to meanest.
And all of them kill non-elves trespassing on their lands on sight. They've seen how humans spread like locusts.
I like drow too, though they can be quite nasty. I think elves add richness to the setting (then again, all races do). I realize they're snotty, but really, just about any race views itself as superior to others. But, we all have things about the Realms we like (and dislike).
You do seem to know a lot about elves though, for someone who dislikes them  |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 11:15:22
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quote:
Originally Posted by Wooley Rupert
No Ityak-Ortheel, please. Not only do I think we should keep Myth Drannor's enemies list limited to those who are traditional and/or local (which also excludes the Shades), using Ityak-Ortheel is kinda like Godzilla (Gojira!) and Tokyo: simply too much destruction. I want enemies who are going to do something other than a mindless rampage that destroys everything in its path.
Netheril was a traditional enemy of Cormanthyr, also the Shades have been a major player in the Dalelands, Cormyr, Moonsea and Sembia region since 3e. In the current timeline, they even have close access to the city through their proxy state of Sembia. I am kind of curious how they are excluded? I understand being tired of them as the settings ubber villians, but I think they really do fit in as a group opposed to a reborn Cormanthyr.
Also, the Eldreth Veluuthra would either have a presence in the city, or be trying to covertly establish one. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
Edited by - Tarlyn on 25 Oct 2012 11:16:42 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 15:35:30
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My instinct with the Shades is to have them present but not really the focus. It depends on when the book is set, but I suspect that Netheril has plenty of other things to do in the 1480s FR, and Myth Drannor is a tougher nut to crack than some of their other enemies. There might be a few agents seeded throughout the empire, maybe an underground cult working to convert elves who have lost loved ones to Shar, and probably what amounts to a bolthole of Shadovar (a small trade/embassy enclave) who are rumored by detractors to be working to establish a staging ground for an actual invasion of New Cormanthyr from within. Odds are, this force wouldn't come until late in the campaign, and the heroes might have already dealt with the Shades by then. However, because they haven't actively invaded, the shades might present themselves as allies and advisors to the elves, or perhaps to the heroes?
And of course if you as a DM really like the shades, then this invasion could come sooner rather than later--the key is setting you up to do what you want with the setting.
Anyway, the point is I wouldn't want to see a "ooh, shades are evil, BLAH!" use of the Shade connection to Cormanthyr. It would be a "the shades are working to establish relations with the elven empire, much like Thay might have done a century ago, but old resentments do not pass easily--since Netheril and Cormanthyr were historically enemies, the Shades are finding a chilly reception."
CHeers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Myth Drannor 5E
