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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 18:46:36
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Hi all. So how does everyone think Myth Drannor should be treated in the Realms in 5E?
It was such a great adventure site I was almost sad to see it resettled. Then again, having a small town that's filled with dungeons and ruins that still can be explored would be kind of fun too. The ruins of Myth Drannor have been noted as having the largest trove of spellbooks anywhere in the Realms. You'd think there would be hordes of adventurers arriving every week. I could almost see this done as player's doing missions for the city, much like the Blingdenstone playtest adventure.
How do you think Myth Drannor should be handled and/or detailed?
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 19:36:04
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I'd like to see Myth Drannor devided up into roughly three workable pieces. Yes, its occupied (but mainly as a military outpost); but no, its nowhere near its former glory; and yes there still is danger in the zone. I'd make the undercity and ground floor dangerous, have a slightly safer zone on the walkways between higher ruins and a safe elven tree settlement above it all, connected by ropebridges and platforms on treebranches that reach into Myth Drannor from the forest.
A small part of the city should be in working order, with enough completed living spaces (aside from the treetents and pavilions of the guards) to house a good deal of citydwellers and the stationed garrison of elves. Visitors and adventurers can find bakers, vinters, inns and gardeners here, and they provide just enough produce to support the city and its army (visitors are likely to be ripped off where they stand, price wise).
A slightly larger part would be like an elven reconstruction site: sounds of supportbeams being hammered in place, the groaning rumble of the earth signifying the magic creation of walls from the very minerals in Myth Drannors soil, the snapping and creaking sounds of thatch roofs being bound by expert (ex-basket)weavers and other bustling activities that are in process. Elves like to take it slow, so this part is well protected by the garrison of Evermeet and Everaska so the artisans can work at their own pace and accidents are swiftly dealt with.
Several quite large sections of the ruined parts of Myth Drannor would still have dangerous magic defences active, and this is the part where adventurers are needed. Large areas still trigger occasional fiendish traps or magic portals/walkways to unexplored parts of the undercity ruins. Here no garrison is found, and the trapspringers are left on their own. All the atrifects they can find are the adventurers pay, so a good deal of rivalry is seen here. Only after the artifects have been screened for their significance by the local highmage Earavin can they leave Myth Drannor. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 20:33:15
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I like it Bladewind. I imagine many of the more intelligent monsters in the ruins will be looting and perhaps attempting to retreat. I could be wrong, but I don't really see the Alhoon staying, maybe stragglers hustling to loot as much as they can before fleeing into the Underdark. I think we'd still have a lot of devils pinned down or trapped in the ruins and I can't imagine what kind of trouble they would cause. There's even a few pit fiends listed in that roster isn't there?
Exploring the ruins of Mythanthar's tower outside the city or maybe the Starym compound would be fun too. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 22:08:30
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| I agree with Bladewind, and I've stated more than once that making Myth Drannor a living city once more should be the work of decades, at best. That said, the way I read the end of the Last Mythal trilogy, it's already pacified and settled. |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 22:32:35
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I agree with you Bladewind, that sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately, the end of the Last Mythal series is pretty clear, the place was pacified extremely quickly. If 5e FR isn't going to change anything that has come before, there's not much of a way to get around that.
Edit: Looks like there's an echo in here, Wooly beat me to it. |
Edited by - idilippy on 16 Oct 2012 23:15:29 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 22:45:35
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| There were a few articles in Dragon Magazine that stated the city is more of an armed camp and that they are still pacifying the ruins. So it's possible we could have something like this. The only problem being, it's been a century since the city was reconquered. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 22:46:44
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Yeah - what Bladewind said.
I can definitely see an 'armed camp' of elves trying to retake the place, and then 'danger zones' of varying degrees of lethalness.
In fact, that set-up is reminiscent of a V-RPG. You have a 'base' to pop in and out of between forays, and the 'deeper' you go, the higher level you need to be.
Sounds like it could be Campaign-book worthy (the kind of treatment Neverwinter got... but without the aboleths...)
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
The only problem being, it's been a century since the city was reconquered.
Or was it? 
A century is a long time... perhaps they opened the wrong door. Its fairly easy to give them some sort of monumental 'set back' to achieve the above situation (and you can't really get more PoL then a single camp surrounded by 'badness').
EDIT: In fact, I would take it a step further and spread that badness into the surrounding woodland. Instead of Myth Drannor campaign guide (which we've already gotten), how about a Cormanthor one? I wouldn't mind seeing one of The Dales overrun with zombies (or am I watching too much Walking Dead lately?)
EDIT2: If the elves were going to retake anything, it should have been The High Forest - we haven't got much info on that place ever, and there was little point in 'ruining' Myth Drannor to replace it with something not adventure-worthy. A new 'dark kingdom of elves' (as in, highly xenophobic) would work well in the North, and be a good counter-point to a monster-infested Cormanthor (because in 1e/2e/3e, anything you can do in one forest you could have done in the other, so it was a bit redundant). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Oct 2012 22:55:51 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2012 : 23:15:50
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Battledale could be over run with zombies. Essembra was depopulated during a war with Sembia. :)
With Wizards wanting player's actions to actually influence how the Realms develops, they could make alot of cool adventures with some of these areas. Rebuilding Myth Drannor using a starting layout like Bladewind stated. Or how about resettling Essembra and killing hordes of undead and shadow creatures left from its war with the Shade. |
Edited by - Eilserus on 16 Oct 2012 23:18:06 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 01:45:48
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Thanks for the nods of approval guys.
I mainly want this devision because it allows for all manner of campaign styles to flourish, albeit dungeonraids down the undercity, strategic plotting around the many armed forces in the Cormanthyr region, or intrigue in the retaken parts of the city of Myth Drannor itself. Oh, and I like the suggestion of a major setback changing the city into the form proposed here.
__
I could see Ilsevile with the Rulerblade in hand, Fflar Starbrow at her side and a couple of other powerful elf nobles, having an active part in the 'Hunt' (as I would see Fflar calling it): a weekly foray into the undercity in an attempt to slay as many fiends as they can. They are likely to have found some measure of control in the lower sections, perhaps even a major Spelltower or two. From these wizard-towers their control can spread into the fiend ridden areas slowly but surely.
Araevin might be responcable for the setback (but I feel for the guy, he already has suffered quite a bit during his novel time). Perhaps because of his abilty to cast high magic without a circle and with so few experience with it he fumbles a spell near the Mythal, unbinding his tending of the Mythal and causing it to snap back into an unstable planar rift to the fiendish realm of your choice.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 02:00:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I agree with Bladewind, and I've stated more than once that making Myth Drannor a living city once more should be the work of decades, at best. That said, the way I read the end of the Last Mythal trilogy, it's already pacified and settled.
I think the easiest [though, not necessarily the *best*] option, would've been to establish the restoration of Myth Drannor at the end of 3e -- as Wizards did -- and promote the idea that it took most of the period between 1385DR and 1479DR for the City of Song to return to a state of it's former prominence and power. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 05:19:42
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Personally, I'm glad with the restoration of Myth Drannor. I'd be sad to see it fall again. Has anyone here read [iBlades of the Moonsea[/i] by Richard Baker? It isn't exactly a follow-up series, but it takes place in 1479, so post-Spellplague, and part of the setting is in Myth Drannor. It is described as a beautiful place.
That said, I don't think it's without it's danger (and really, what place in the Realms DOESN'T have some danger to it?), and I'm not opposed to the idea of there being "underground" danger. That might prove interesting (plus Ilesvele and Fflar are awesome, IMO). What I don't want to see is another collapse of Myth Drannor. Adventures could still take place under and around it. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2012 : 05:34:18
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I would be interested in such a Cormanthor book.
I would like to have a Myth Drannor section though. Perhaps an entire chapter. But then, I love that region. I have Ruins of Myth Drannor, Cormanthyr Empire of Elves, Fall of Myth Drannor, and Lost Empires of Faerun.
I want to get the various Dalelands books but do not yet have them.
However, resettled Myth Drannor is of great interest to me, as are any 'Arcane Age' supplements. |
Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 13:04:43
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| Add me to the chorus of 'What Bladewind said' |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 14:26:45
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For a start at least, look to my work here at the keep: Althen Artren's Guide to Myth Drannor, I heavily
cut and pasted from the books that had information on it, each building is divided up by up to 3 time periods,
and I studied and compared the maps from Cormanthor EoE, Ruins of Myth Drannor, and the last Dragon magazine
to ensure that I accurately stated what buildings are still standing during the time periods. Changes include
that the Temple of Azuth is still standing, Windsong Tower was returned to its spot after the Weeping War,
and I included the Shrine that housed the Tree of Souls and made details on a new Creators House. Please check
it out and forgive the typos, I haven't cleaned it up and resubmitted it. Please note if anything is in italics
its my own material. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 16:52:34
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Myth Drannor falls .... again.
I think that there are quite enough demon infested ruins in the realms and more than enough hellhloes, a few cities are an oasis of beauty and civilization. Is it really a good idea to repeatedly destroy them? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 17:51:54
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Well, its been a century, but that was the Wailing Years - a century of spellplague and magical chaos. They can basically do whatever they want with the place (because the Elves should have had severe setbacks when magic ran amok).
Think about it - they've been 'cleaning up the place' since their arrival, which probably means they banished/subdued/imprisoned quite a few nasties. When the Spellplague rolled over them, all of those seals could have broken - they could have been back to square one again. Plus stuff that may have been trapped from earlier times could have gotten out, pocket-planes could have disgorged their contents, etc - the retaking of Myth Drannor could have been very short-lived. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 22:08:31
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I don't see the need to have the city itself be in ruins again. It can still be a host to great adventures. For one, I am not convinced all of those basements, cellars, ancient temples, Dwarvenholds and fiendishly constructed under buildings were cleared out during the Reclamation. There can be a thriving city and potent new political player in the region in the surface city and endless adventures sites below. It could be similar to Waterdeep and Undermount in that way. Elven noble families paying PCs to "clean out there basement" and the players discover a hidden network of tunnels linking cellars throughout the city. Meanwhile, the city itself is a new player in the Sembia, Cormyr, Moonsea and Dalelands political arena. Maybe drow have tunneled up into a subterranean fortress build by the fiends that controlled the city for centuries and they sneak around at night stealing magic lore and killing elf lords. At the same time, the city is hammering out trade agreements with Sembia, negotiating with the Dalelands to preserve the surrounding forest, experiencing an awkward relationship with Cormyr's ruling family(given that the elves granted the land to the Obsarskyr's) and its in conflict with Nethril and the moonsea city states. It could remain a elf city, or the new coronal could actually pursue coronal Eltargrim's dream. Certainly over the course of a hundred years, the Eldreth Veluuthra have wormed their way back into the city and it would be a great place to have the Harper's formerly recreate themselves.
I would love to buy a Myth Drannor box set similar to the old city of splendors box set detailing a bustling city and adventure possibilities below and around the city. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 02:34:59
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Hey Zireael, you got to give me feedback now. Its been on almost a year,
and I have had no critical feedback. Give me your best. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 02:47:19
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If you play it right, you really don't need to convert all of it to
a fully developed city. As memory serves, as of the Dragon 359 map, several of the buildings are rubble, and they cover the clan's subt levels (instant dungeons). Keep the area east of the Glameril as wild as several buildings are still standing (though some big ones like 6 Tyryl Towers were destroyed, though several underground levels are still present I would assume, I have a portal to Undermountain Lvl 3 there) as a wild area where tough monsters live, with all sorts of malfunctioning portals which gate in nasties all the time. The area just north of the Pool was reduced to waves of rubble, have monsters burst out from rubble all the time. Tons of fun for you and the whole family. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 03:20:41
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| I agree with Tarlyn. The city can still be a good adventure site, since there are those underground tunnels and such that are probably still crawling with monsters, plus all the political stuff that needs to be accomplished. Making Myth Drannor fall again would be kind of like killing Mystra more than once: it gets old. If the city was left alone, but there were opportunities for players to explore the underground, then I think that would be a good compromise for those who want the city to remain standing (like myself), and those who want it as an adventure site. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 03:31:36
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| Anyone remember Pool of Radiance? Where Phlan had a civilized part but went into the ruins/slums and cleared out baddies for the city council? Seems like you guys are describing something similar to that for Myth Drannor. Which is cool in my books, I love Phlan. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 03:52:00
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Elves move pretty slowly in things compared to humans. I could see some big battles when the city was first refounded, but there's 700 years of monster and demon infestation as a ruin. Parts of the city may still be in ruin, others warded and sealed shut to keep whatever horrors are locked below from getting out and running amok in the city. If anyone has checked out the Reclaiming Blingdenstone playtest adventure, it could be fun to run the city somewhat like that. They have a certain area of control and it's up to the PC's to help reclaim and cleanse the ruins. If Wizards did this right, we could see some of the really cool history and structures of the city: the Irithlium, Ursplindaar, the Speculum, the House of Gems (Onaglym), and probably a bunch of other places Ed has that never made it into general knowledge.
The Vault of Ages was emptied sometime during the Fall and wouldn't it be fun to power the wards so it could be used again. DMs could parade an incredible amount of magic items in front of their players to keep up with the city's history and sense of wonder as a vast treasure trove and help the city restock the Vault, perhaps keeping a piece or two here and there.
Helping reclaim the city would be a prime way Wizards could utilize their idea of PC's actions changing the landscape of Faerun. There's so much to do with this city I really hope they pull it off right, because it could be a lot of fun. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 10:01:54
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quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
Hey Zireael, you got to give me feedback now. Its been on almost a year,
and I have had no critical feedback. Give me your best.
I say that it is pretty good, especially some parts which turn out quite ironic, as with the Dahast estate. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 14:56:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
I was hoping to see a renewed Myth Drannor. I like the idea of the boreal elven kingdom what's actually well developed; and I particularly liked the idea of it in the Dalelands.
I like the idea, myself. I just think it happened too fast, and that there was much gaming and novel potential ruined by that epilogue. |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 15:09:57
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| The hundred year time gap is no longer off limit to the development team(or at least that is what I have gathered from discussion around here), so they could fill in how the city was reclaimed and write a few adventures that take place during that period. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 15:28:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
The hundred year time gap is no longer off limit to the development team(or at least that is what I have gathered from discussion around here), so they could fill in how the city was reclaimed and write a few adventures that take place during that period.
The issue isn't the timejump -- the epilogue of the Last Mythal books makes it sound like Myth Drannor was once more a thriving city, and that epilogue is set just five years after the main tale. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 15:48:49
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As CorellonsDevout said, Blades of the Moonsea features the main characters in Myth Drannor circa 1479 and it's illegal to go into the non-safe zones of the lower parts of the city. So obviously there are areas that are still warded and keeping monsters and demons at bay.
I would not be happy if Myth Drannor were to fall again. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 16:03:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
The hundred year time gap is no longer off limit to the development team(or at least that is what I have gathered from discussion around here), so they could fill in how the city was reclaimed and write a few adventures that take place during that period.
The issue isn't the timejump -- the epilogue of the Last Mythal books makes it sound like Myth Drannor was once more a thriving city, and that epilogue is set just five years after the main tale.
We did have an issue or two of Dragon where they stated the city was more of an armed military camp and that they had started clearing and cleaning up the ruins. Sounds like we have a bit of a conflict with those two snap-shots of the city. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 17:36:23
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I would assume that the scene at the end of Last Mythal at the Tree of Souls,
the Elves would have made sure that area would be cleaned totally and made
into a pristine square and common area with surrounding renovated buildings. This is
the Tree of Souls we're talking about here.
I put it where the Banesduel took place so the Tree of Souls
could leech the radiated magic of that final explosion
and have wild card abilities develope for a canon reason. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 18:00:07
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Back with the books came out, Rich Baker indicated that the epilogue essentially existed to make sure that it was established that Myth Drannor was going to be resettled and it wasn't going to be a plot point that was dropped or reversed. Sort of like planing the flag.
Once that was established, even if it was a bit overstated, they could then go back and say, "well, it wasn't completely reclaimed, but good enough for now" and fill in the details (or not) as desired.
In other words, the epilogue was almost as much a statement of intent as it was an epilogue. |
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Myth Drannor 5E
