| Author |
 Topic  |
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 03:34:57
|
[quoteIt seems to me people get upset when their favorite characters die. We hear that Alustriel relinquished her immortality and faded away peacefully (which is basically dying of old age) and people are up in arms over that. One can't always win.
Ultimately, my main point is that it should be up to the author what happens to his or her characters. For instance, if Drizzt or some of his companions were to die, I'd much prefer to have Bob do it than have their deaths footnoted in a sourcebook. If he wants them to die of old age, great--if they die violently, whatever. It's up to Bob. He's the story teller.
Cheers
[/quote]
Don't you get upset when your favorite characters die? |
Sweet water and light laughter |
 |
|
|
Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 17:35:18
|
Bruenor and Wulfgar had respectable lives/deaths and personally I would have no issue with them remaining dead.
Regis had a stupid death and no send off, it was off panel discussion what happened to him. Terrible writing/concept in my opinion on a long standing favorite character, and if Iruladoon is shattered bring him back and let his story continue.
I never liked Catti-Brie in the slightest, so her pointless/stupid smellplauge induced death has no consequence to me.
|
|
|
|
Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 17:37:18
|
| Oh and yes, I would love to see Cadderly returned to the living, although he is overpowered to the point of uninteresting when confronted with danger as written in every book from The Fallen Fortress onwards. |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 19:16:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
quote:
It seems to me people get upset when their favorite characters die. We hear that Alustriel relinquished her immortality and faded away peacefully (which is basically dying of old age) and people are up in arms over that. One can't always win.
Don't you get upset when your favorite characters die?
Honestly? It depends.
Usually there's a visceral "oh no!" reaction, but ultimately, if the death is fitting for the character and told in good faith, then it enhances the character, rather than diminishes him/her. Usually, characters die at their best--it's like a movie ending on a high note, with the characters at the height of their awesomeness. Or sometimes the character gets to die gracefully, surrounded by family and friends, and then I feel as though the character has been rewarded for a full and good life.
For instance, out of the Realms, I'd much rather see Chewbacca die heroically saving Han Solo and family than see him grow old, wither, and stop being the heroic brute that he is. Sure, I might be upset at first, but in the long run, I accept and even like Chewy's fate.
Regardless, I'd prefer a character die a good death rather than have to see the character wither and fade and cease being what I loved in the first place. I also enjoy getting to see other characters being affected by that character's life and death.
And lastly, death in fantasy is really just an opportunity, not so much a hindrance.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 20:37:33
|
| Bruenor has always been one of my favorite realms characters. I hated to see him go, but he had the Best. Death. Ever. A death befitting a dwarf king of his stature. Wulgar too had a death befitting his life. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
|
|
|
Captain Grafalcon
Learned Scribe
Brazil
129 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2012 : 21:02:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Bruenor and Wulfgar had respectable lives/deaths and personally I would have no issue with them remaining dead.
Regis had a stupid death and no send off, it was off panel discussion what happened to him. Terrible writing/concept in my opinion on a long standing favorite character, and if Iruladoon is shattered bring him back and let his story continue.
I like to think that
|
"Surely you recognize that armies carrying banners are almost always thieves—until they win."
Jarlaxle, mercenary leader of Bregan D'aerthe. |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2012 : 00:12:05
|
Erik, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who has read Vector Prime. I was so upset by Chewie's death that I could not finish the book. But, you're right, it was fitting, and far better than dying of old age. And why is everyone so surprised by Pwent's return as a vampire? After the way he died, I had almost expected it. It was interesting to see that it actually happened in the comics- which also meant that I was in no way surprised to learn he shows up in Charon's Claw, because he had already encountered Drizzt and Dahlia in the comic.
|
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2012 : 00:37:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gavinho
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Bruenor and Wulfgar had respectable lives/deaths and personally I would have no issue with them remaining dead.
Regis had a stupid death and no send off, it was off panel discussion what happened to him. Terrible writing/concept in my opinion on a long standing favorite character, and if Iruladoon is shattered bring him back and let his story continue.
I like to think that
I agree he got nice treatment in Pirate King, but compared to Bruenor's treatment in Gauntlgrym, it was pathetic considering it was his last novel so far. Like I said, he deserves better and if the Sundering brings back anyone, I hope it's Regis and his Ruby.
Who has the Ruby now, by the way? Drizzt? |
|
|
|
Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2012 : 01:50:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
King Bruenor repeatedly put two humans, a drow, and a halfling before the needs of his fellow dwarves... he was a very, VERY bad king. He got up and left (and left someone else in charge) several times on a whim.
IMHO, he did not deserve to go to Moradin.
Bah! Moradin expects harmonious coexistence with the other races, he does, and King Bruenor certainly helped to achieve that, what with his mixed-up adventuring party and all. And he ne'er left the Clan in incapable hands, but rather, entrusted it to wise, experienced, battle-tested leaders. History shows he always chose wisely for the Clan, while he went off and about, spreading good cheer and good will from Clan Battlehammer abroad (especially to pig-faces!  ). How could ye not simply love a bloke who bore a mug o'ale on his shield? 
I don't have feeling in my fingers, but I've finally finished Gontelgrum.
Now, I can say this. In the ghost king they started looking for Katty and the Halfling. so the end of the novel is basically saying here they are. And despite how some people see it, I don't just see it as it being Drizzt's little slice of paradice. I mean who is he with, but his two adopted children, who are both human, no going to the Halls of Moradin for those two. Then there's the Halfling no telling where he'd go, but it's fair to say normally Bruenor not be seeing him again. This way he does get to see them all again, this way he can spend some time with them and get that closure that he might not have been able to get before now. Then he gets to go to the Dwarvan halls. And by the way, he was probably my favorite character in the whole series. So maybe I'll read Never Winter, and maybe not. Oh, just to say it, I am not upset wen a character dies. Most of the time. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2012 : 15:33:22
|
| I was actually happy to see the Wulfgar story line come to an end. The understandable changes in his personality after being a prisoner in the Abyss for many years made him an unsavory character for me. At the same time, I also did not like how Cattie-Brie got bumped to the sidelines after she and Drizzt finally got married. I thought she deserved better than that. Though there was a whole other scroll (I don't remember its name) about romance in novels (and other forms of fiction) and how writers don't seem to know what to do with love interests after the sexual tension has been resolved. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
Captain Grafalcon
Learned Scribe
Brazil
129 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2012 : 18:15:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
quote:
Originally posted by Gavinho
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Bruenor and Wulfgar had respectable lives/deaths and personally I would have no issue with them remaining dead.
Regis had a stupid death and no send off, it was off panel discussion what happened to him. Terrible writing/concept in my opinion on a long standing favorite character, and if Iruladoon is shattered bring him back and let his story continue.
I like to think that
I agree he got nice treatment in Pirate King, but compared to Bruenor's treatment in Gauntlgrym, it was pathetic considering it was his last novel so far. Like I said, he deserves better and if the Sundering brings back anyone, I hope it's Regis and his Ruby.
Who has the Ruby now, by the way? Drizzt?
I may be wrong, but I think Jarlaxle confiscate it when he saved Drizzt back to the material plane. |
"Surely you recognize that armies carrying banners are almost always thieves—until they win."
Jarlaxle, mercenary leader of Bregan D'aerthe. |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2012 : 19:54:15
|
quote:
Honestly? It depends.
Usually there's a visceral "oh no!" reaction, but ultimately, if the death is fitting for the character and told in good faith, then it enhances the character, rather than diminishes him/her. Usually, characters die at their best--it's like a movie ending on a high note, with the characters at the height of their awesomeness. Or sometimes the character gets to die gracefully, surrounded by family and friends, and then I feel as though the character has been rewarded for a full and good life.
For instance, out of the Realms, I'd much rather see Chewbacca die heroically saving Han Solo and family than see him grow old, wither, and stop being the heroic brute that he is. Sure, I might be upset at first, but in the long run, I accept and even like Chewy's fate.
Regardless, I'd prefer a character die a good death rather than have to see the character wither and fade and cease being what I loved in the first place. I also enjoy getting to see other characters being affected by that character's life and death.
And lastly, death in fantasy is really just an opportunity, not so much a hindrance.
Cheers
I can see that, and sometimes the pain of the death is lessened (somewhat), if the characters have a good afterlife to go to—which was not the case with Phaeraun from WofSQ. He died and went to Lolth’s realm, where he was at the mercy of her minions and was tortured. He came back in a follow-up trilogy only to die again. I was very upset—and still am, over his death, because his afterlife would be miserable. I’ve read books where I felt deaths were very anti-climatic, both in and outside the Realms. I get attached to characters very easily, so it is always hard for me to accept their death. I’d much rather have the story conclude with them alive. That said, if they were alive but lonely and without friends or family, or hope. If they were completely lost and the rest of their life promised to be depressing, then yeah, I’d rather have them die, where they could hopefully be with loved ones. So I guess, it depends in the end for me, too. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2012 : 21:54:18
|
My very first D&D character was a dwarf, so don't label me a hater. I've been asking for more Dwarf lore in FR for years now. Its just my opinion he was a bad king (and he knew it, so he left it in much more capable hands most of the time).
I never said he was a bad dwarf, just a crappy king. 
If I hate anything its elves... pesky little hubris-filled war-mongering monsters. You know what a Drow is? An Elf with a tan... I see no difference. At least Drow have enough nobility to face their enemies like men (and priestesses) - Elves just hide in the woods and massacre everyone with a High Magic ritual. "Ohhh, Corellon, help us! That halfling looked at me funny!"
"What? I am Corellon, god of pretty ponies and facial creme, how dare anyone make my children cry! I shall cast a ritual that will slay every halfling everywhere in the universe all at once (and maybe kill a whole bunch of other ugly, less-dexterous people in the process)"
quote:
Originally posted by Euranna
quote:
Originally posted by Gavinho
IMO, Cadderly shouldn´t return. Only a few adventurers can confront a dragon and live to tell the tale, imagine a Dracolich! I really liked this character, but his return would, somehow, diminish his sacrifice.
Unless he came back to actually finish off the Ghost King. He is not dead dead yet. He is just kept from the Prime Material by Cadderly's sacrfice. :)
I am not quite finished with this novel ATM...thanks for the spoiler.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 06 Oct 2012 22:04:38 |
|
|
|
Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2012 : 22:19:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
quote:
Honestly? It depends.
Usually there's a visceral "oh no!" reaction, but ultimately, if the death is fitting for the character and told in good faith, then it enhances the character, rather than diminishes him/her. Usually, characters die at their best--it's like a movie ending on a high note, with the characters at the height of their awesomeness. Or sometimes the character gets to die gracefully, surrounded by family and friends, and then I feel as though the character has been rewarded for a full and good life.
For instance, out of the Realms, I'd much rather see Chewbacca die heroically saving Han Solo and family than see him grow old, wither, and stop being the heroic brute that he is. Sure, I might be upset at first, but in the long run, I accept and even like Chewy's fate.
Regardless, I'd prefer a character die a good death rather than have to see the character wither and fade and cease being what I loved in the first place. I also enjoy getting to see other characters being affected by that character's life and death.
And lastly, death in fantasy is really just an opportunity, not so much a hindrance.
Cheers
I can see that, and sometimes the pain of the death is lessened (somewhat), if the characters have a good afterlife to go to—which was not the case with Phaeraun from WofSQ. He died and went to Lolth’s realm, where he was at the mercy of her minions and was tortured. He came back in a follow-up trilogy only to die again. I was very upset—and still am, over his death, because his afterlife would be miserable. I’ve read books where I felt deaths were very anti-climatic, both in and outside the Realms. I get attached to characters very easily, so it is always hard for me to accept their death. I’d much rather have the story conclude with them alive. That said, if they were alive but lonely and without friends or family, or hope. If they were completely lost and the rest of their life promised to be depressing, then yeah, I’d rather have them die, where they could hopefully be with loved ones. So I guess, it depends in the end for me, too.
Well, that's a gigantic spoiler, which I wasn't expecting.
Note. see he gets reserected. He's mostly the reason why I'm reading the thing, well, him and the sword master, and the train wreck that always comes about when those two are involved. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2012 : 22:50:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Erik, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who has read Vector Prime. I was so upset by Chewie's death that I could not finish the book. But, you're right, it was fitting, and far better than dying of old age. And why is everyone so surprised by Pwent's return as a vampire? After the way he died, I had almost expected it. It was interesting to see that it actually happened in the comics- which also meant that I was in no way surprised to learn he shows up in Charon's Claw, because he had already encountered Drizzt and Dahlia in the comic.
It surprised me because for some reason, I had remembered it as being Athrogate, not Pwent, who got bit by the vampire in question and thus expected him to be sporting some fangs next time he showed up. I guess I just tried to block so much of Gauntlgrym out of my mind that it got lost in the shuffle.
Anyway, subject at hand- I honestly do hope that the Companion's special afterlife gets shattered. I want them to remain dead, of course, but that little bubble set up for them always annoyed me to no end.
Breunor is the king who found Mithril Hall, the king who found Gauntlgrym. Moradin isn't letting go of that. Wulfgar was a barbarian king who'd slain countless enemies- Tempus isn't letting go of that.
As for Cat, there's a lot about the way Cat was handled in the last few books I didn't like. Cripple her, take away her ability to have kids, turn her into a wizard, then put her on the bus for a novel where wizards are the main enemy, then kill her off in the next book. That made no sense to me, though I suppose it could have been executive meddling. Still, they killed her off, lets live with that decision. Have her go to Moradin's realm with Bruenor; as far as I can tell she revered the dwarven gods and Moradin's been shifted to be more racially universal if dwarf-centric. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2012 : 04:04:48
|
@Sightless: sorry, Sightless. Since WofSQ had been mentioned, Phaeraun was on my mind, so he was the first example that came to my head.
@Markustay: ouch, that hurts. I named myself Corellon’s Devout for a reason, after all.
@Chosen of Asmodeus: I don’t remember whether it was Pwent or Arthogate either. Honestly, I didn’t even remember one had gotten bitten at all, but I didn’t much enjoy Gauntlgrym, either. As for the Companions, I’m a sap, so I think they should be together, but at the same time, they all expected to go to their respective gods, so it was a big shocker to them all that they weren’t.
|
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2012 : 04:13:17
|
Don't worry too much, Sightless. Pretty much everyone in WotSQ dies--or worse.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2012 : 04:26:02
|
| Except Q'arlynd, who is believed to have died but shows up in Lady Penitent. Valas (thankfully), Gromph, and Quenathel also live. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2012 : 06:09:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
My very first D&D character was a dwarf, so don't label me a hater. I've been asking for more Dwarf lore in FR for years now. Its just my opinion he was a bad king (and he knew it, so he left it in much more capable hands most of the time).
I never said he was a bad dwarf, just a crappy king.
Nah. Bruenor ran such a ship-shape kingdom, and was such a capable leader, that he could enable, empower, and entrust his fellow dwarves to continue without him. He grew bored of being a king, because his people did such a great job, and went off adventuring in part because it wasn't something so predictable and routine. Meanwhile, Bruenor could rest assured that Mithral Hall would run well even when he wasn't in charge. Surely, he would not have faked his death if he didn't already know that General Banak would make a fine successor.
So the fact that his people were so capable is actually a sign of his greatness as a king--not of weakness.
Contrast that against some charismatic authority figures, who run their countries/organizations nicely while they're actively engaged in the captain's seat, essentially micromanaging everything, but as soon as they take a little time off or step down, everything falls apart.
Bruenor was such a beloved and respected figure that he was still thought by many to be the King of Mithral Hall even after he had moved half the clan back to Icewind Dale! He was tasked to represent the Hall at the diplomatic meetings in the fledgling Alliance of Silverymoon/Luruar/Silver Marches, even though there was an entirely different king on the throne (Gandalug).
And although unending vengeance against King Obould would have fit my dwarven bloodlust quite well, King Bruenor had the wisdom to listen to his closest advisor and see that such an ongoing war would not fare well for his people, and so, he made peace. This atypical behavior for a dwarven king actually resulted in making the League of the Silver Marches even stronger in the North, at the same time that it ensured the survival of the Clan Battlehammer dwarves.
Ensured national survival and a strengthened international coalition are marks of a great king.  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2012 : 18:25:58
|
I guess its your definition of leader that differs from mine. I don't feel someone who is great at delegating responsibility is such a great leader. I Believe in 'leading by example'.
Bruenor is not there for his people, unless it fits his own, personal agenda. He does however pick the best people for the job of running his kingdom (something he himself does not directly do most of the time).
People have proven to me that he should go to Moradin's Halls (because of his accomplishments), but none of that is based upon his ruling his people. If Drizzt wasn't around to temper his feelings, he probably would have gotten the dwarves into another war with the orcs, and the dwarves would have been annihilated. He just surrounded himself with very good friends that helped him be a king. He is too much of a hothead IMHO to have been effective without all the people around to council him. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 07 Oct 2012 18:27:50 |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 00:59:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I guess its your definition of leader that differs from mine. I don't feel someone who is great at delegating responsibility is such a great leader. I Believe in 'leading by example'.
Bruenor is not there for his people, unless it fits his own, personal agenda. He does however pick the best people for the job of running his kingdom (something he himself does not directly do most of the time).
People have proven to me that he should go to Moradin's Halls (because of his accomplishments), but none of that is based upon his ruling his people. If Drizzt wasn't around to temper his feelings, he probably would have gotten the dwarves into another war with the orcs, and the dwarves would have been annihilated. He just surrounded himself with very good friends that helped him be a king. He is too much of a hothead IMHO to have been effective without all the people around to council him.
It's not "leadership" until you get others to do something. If you do it well yourself, that's just technicianship. It's all fine and good to be a great warrior or subject matter expert, but until it rubs off on others, you're not leading anybody at all--you're just doing it, yourself.
Part of being a good king, as with any good leader, is ensuring continuity of operations. You've got to know that the ship can and will still sail on, even when you're down and/or out and/or dead. It's not enough to know that it runs well when you're there.
And surrounding himself with good advisors was a mark of wisdom. He knew he was a hothead, but he didn't let his own opinion suffice during decision-making. Despite his personal tendencies, he heeded others' advice. That reflected growth in his character, and a sense of awareness that he held a responsibility for far more than his mere personal thrill-seeking.
|
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 02:45:27
|
@CorellonsDevout: I was trying to AVOID giving him spoilers like that.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 03:26:00
|
| So he's the second best kind of prince. And delegation is a useful tool for a leader, even one that leads by example can't do it all alone. Still Marcus I can't argue with any of your points beyond that, except to say that if he was more of a leader, then certain people might have felt he overshadowed Drizzt. I'm not necesarily speaking about Bob hear, but other powers at be, and this is purely a supacision and nothing more. I still think that what he got in the end was a sweeter deal. Immediate close kin, versus dwarves he wasn't, for the most part, as attached to. Still just my opinion, and I'm sure many might disagree. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 03:28:58
|
| @Erik Scott de Bie: Sorry >< but you had said pretty much everyone died, so I was naming who survived *shrugs* oops. I'll try and give a warning next time |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 03:30:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I was actually angered by Cadderly's death, and I hope he is brought back by Deneir. It seems like Danica and his children just sort of...accepted his death. There was no real reaction that I remember.
Deneir was killed in the spellplague. Which is a big part of why Cadderly died I think. While most of Deneir's worshipers probably converted into Oghma's Pantheon, I kind of figured Cadderly would bite it.
quote:
Bruenor was expecting to be with Moradin, and Wulfgar with Tempus (and Tempus and Moradin might have been expecting them too ;P) so being in Iraduun (I know I'm spelling it wrong), was a great shock to them, but at least they are all together. Regis probably expected to go to the Green Fields, but Catti lucked out. If she had gone to Mystra's realm...who knows where her soul would have gone, since Dweamorheart was destroyed.
Since when did Catti Brie worship Mystra? Most mages actually do not worship Mystra. Only her clerics. Mystra is bound to grant spells to anyone. Including enemies even if she knows it will kill her.
if anything, Catti brie worships both Maelikki and one of the Dwarven gods(You can worship more than one) |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 04:17:39
|
I know Deneir died (I knew that from Mistshore, which came out before Ghost King), but if the rumors about the Sundering are true, and some/all of the dead gods are returning, then that may include Deneir.
Mmm, that's true, you do have a point there about Mystra. I'm not sure what I was thinking ^^; and I know you can worship more than one god. Many people do. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 04:41:02
|
Cadderly died because they were killing off all the chosen; they wanted a chosen free world by the time 4e started. Some chosen such as Obould and Fzoul ascended and became demigods while others chose to fade away.
In regards to Catti, I always assumed she worshiped the dwarven gods primarily; whenever she held Cutter, the hilt would take a shape that included several dwarven runes, if memory recalls. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 04:43:24
|
It doesn't mean I am happy about his death. In fact, there were many deaths in 4e I wasn't happy about
You're right, it probably was the dwarven gods she worshipped, though she did seem to pay some homage to Mielikki |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 04:58:38
|
I'm starting to think that very few people are completely happy with 4e, even the people that play 4e.
Although that's purely based on my experience. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2012 : 05:06:16
|
| You're not alone, I've noticed that too. I mean no offense to the designers of 4e, and I'm sure there are fans, but most people I've talked to aren't that fond of the edition, myself included. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Still very bitter sweet...
