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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 01:32:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yup.
Which means he can return in any era. 
And given that 3e RAVENLOFT largely left Gondegal as a wandering "defender of the oppressed," and also assuming Wizards would borrow from that earlier material, the returning 'Lost King' would certainly feel that Cormyr is in dire need of his help. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 02:08:43
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I must admit, I am a little confused and have mixed feelings about all the editions being available in 5e (I'll admit my mixed feelings could come from that confusion). I own some of the sourcebooks, mostly for lore and reference purposes (as I think I've stated before), but I rarely play D&D, FR setting or otherwise--but I would like to play more. As I have mentioned, my concerns for 5e primarily pretain to the effect it will have on the novels (D&D core and FR setting to an extent as well, because I'd still like for those who don't read the novels to get a "taste" for the words as well). Here is where my mixed feelings come into play: from what I understand--correct me if I'm wrong, because as I said, I might be confused--WOtC's aim is to make previous editions available to players so they can play with the lore/setting that they like best, so they can choose what is in their world and what they would like to leave out. But what will this mean for the novels? Since this is not a retcon, the Spellplague happened in the novels, and there is no going back, so in the 5e novels, what effect will the 5e changes have on them?
I understand the aim is to make the stories more character-based, which is good, though as I’ve said before, I did like when the gods had more involvement, and their “petty squabbling” did make them more “human”. But having them take a back seat also means they are less likely to get killed off, haha. And this is also why I’d like to know which gods are definitely back and which aren’t, because of the novels. A reader could not pretend Vhaeraun is back or choose whether he isn’t, whereas a player can choose to use him or not. And a player, if my understanding is right, will have the available lore to play pre-Spellplague, but in the novels, the fact is that the Spellplague happened, and even if the Sundering separates Abeir from Faerun again, the respective races interacted while they were joined, so there will be lasting effects of that , yes? I have read Erik’s description of the Sundering on his site, but I am trying to understand. And since the novels are going to be more character-based (though in my opinion, they really always have been. I never got the impression that mortals were on the backseat. Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep novels are a good example), how will readers know about future major events (eg, political, since “earth-shattering” may not be happening again anytime soon) in the Realms. I’m sure I’m missing something here, but yeah ^^;
I am afraid that I know about as much as you in this regard, and can understand your concerns. When I first heard about 5e, I thought they were going to establish eras of play, like WOTC originally did for Star Wars. Now, however, I don’t believe that will be the case. As for bringing back Gods, numerous possibilities exist for allowing that even given the spell plague, largely, since as far as I know, what exactly happened during which has never been precisely set out. When Gods died in previous editions, their bodies went to the Austral plain. One could “revive” a god from that plain through the use of souls willingly sacrificed to the God. That is just one way one could bring back a God. There are others. As it’s never been specified, to my knowledge, how much having living mortal followers impacts on a God’s death. If the presence of worshipers is needed as part of divine power, than by logical extention, worshiper should determine elements of existence as well. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 05:34:47
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| I had suspicions that at least some of them went to the Astral Sea, but I wasn't sure. I read in FRCG 3r (think it was 3e) that there was a god who was "sleeping" in the Astral plane--the name escapes me at the moment--but I have wondered where gods go when they die. As for the followers, I have heard something like, such as the strength of the god being linked to the number of followers. But if that is the case, some gods, such as Helm and Mask, might have a chance, but others like Vhaearun, Eilistraee, and say, Deneir, are less likely to return. Players can choose who they want to include, but the novels are more "concrete". |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 13:13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
But if that is the case, some gods, such as Helm and Mask, might have a chance...
There's enough hints that point out to Mask's imminent return. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2012 : 19:03:55
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| I'm thinking that too, I was just using examples. I had a feeling Mask might return, considering at the end of the Twilight Wars by Paul S. Kemp, Riven tells Magadon that Mask will return. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 12:48:11
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| For 5E I want to see a return of Elminster's Everwinking Eye. I still hold that those early Polyhedron articles that detailed out Maskyr's Eye and Treasures of the Vast were some of the best created. The Border Kingdoms were good, but I think it'd rock to see it start in say Hillsfar, make its way through the Dales, down through Sembia, to Cormyr, through the Heartlands up to Waterdeep and the North, hit a portal up to Ruathym, be taken to Chult on a slave ship, return to Calimsham and work one's way up the Sword Coast through Amn and Tethyr. This could go on for a long long time as if each city took an article or three like the originals and would be an epic tour of the Realms. A book created like this would be better, say by VOLO too. :) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 19:15:51
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We have to bear in mind 5e will mean at least three different things to us -
1) D&Dnext = the rules system (which will theoretically be able to simulate any other edition).
2) 5eFR = A new setting, built upon the core concepts of the original setting, using the 4e lore but 'softening' the hard edges (basically, I imagine them sanding-down the square pegs to fit in all the round holes). This setting should feel like earlier editions, but it is NOT a reset - it will still be forward in time from the 4e setting (at least 5 years, from what we've heard).
3) "Support for all eras" = this is the vaguest of all the ideas they are talking about. I am not sure how they can produce a single book useable by someone running a game in the Days of Thunder, and in 1485 DR. We keep hearing about certain articles on the DDi (which can only be read by folks who are already WotC fans), but the detractors can't see these to make any sort of comparison, so they aren't a useful reference. I think we will know precisely what they mean when Ed Greenwood presents Elminster's Guide to the Forgotten Realms comes out, so hopefully this point will be clarified soon-enough.
And I am already tired of typing that abysmally long title.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Sep 2012 19:19:31 |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 19:49:58
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Given this, I tend to think of the information from the Shadowstone novel as reflecting Shar's efforts to subvert Mystra by using Weave-based shadow magic as opposed to Shadow Weave magic.
I seem to remember, that the shadowstone novel was originally written for birthright, i remember at least, that there were 1 or more birthright geography names there had not been exchanged with FR geography names |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 20:26:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
3) "Support for all eras" = this is the vaguest of all the ideas they are talking about. I am not sure how they can produce a single book useable by someone running a game in the Days of Thunder, and in 1485 DR. We keep hearing about certain articles on the DDi (which can only be read by folks who are already WotC fans), but the detractors can't see these to make any sort of comparison, so they aren't a useful reference. I think we will know precisely what they mean when Ed Greenwood presents Elminster's Guide to the Forgotten Realms comes out, so hopefully this point will be clarified soon-enough.
I truly hope they don't do that, but that instead they publish books for single eras. I'm not paying full price for half (or even less than a half) a book, considering that such is the part of the book I would use.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 21:15:01
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I think multiple era ideas for campaigning will work for some products. They were able to pull it off with the Menzo product more or less. My only regret is it wasn't a beast of a book like the original boxed set was. Aside from that, I think I'd much rather prefer to the "support for all eras" simply meaning we can buy every product they have EVER created, regardless of edition. I don't want to see huge space wasting 3E type stat blocks in books or the same wasteful tactical encounters that covered 50% of a tome, but I wouldn't mind the old abbreviated version from 2E days like: Elminster (CG hm W29 INT 20 WIS 20; staff of the magi) etc. It's short, sweet and gives enough info to flesh the rest of the NPC out. Then they can just stick a small couple page NPC's section in the back of whatever book if need be like they did for the old Volo guides.
"Support all eras" could work out just fine, but it probably won't work for most books if they are only 100 pages. Minimum page count should be 150 to 200, ditch hard cover for soft if its cheaper to boost page count (like the binding for City of the Spider Queen and Lords of Darkness etc.). At any rate, I hope they can figure it out to raise page count, which I suspect is also partially tied to the average of copies being sold for products. And I'm sure I've yammered about it somewhere, but Forgotten Realms adventure paths, done up like Paizo, one per month in a similar arc concerning places like the Dales, the Moonsea, the Vast, The North, Amn etc etc. If they could pull it off, it'd be totally epic and make Wizards lots of money! |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2012 : 23:37:42
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| How will "supporting all eras" work in the case of the novels? |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2012 : 00:02:31
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| Apparently, there is a chance that we'll see novels set in the past eras. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2012 : 01:20:45
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| Mmm...not sure how I feel about that. I mean, we already HAVE those novels, and we'd know the outcome of the events. The even would have to be really interesting for me to read something set in the past era (such as the Crown Wars. That would be interesting). |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 03:59:01
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| Well, they could also be using small stories set in the past that detail events that were not considered "big" historically. I'm thinking of tales like Josediah Starym's descent into the Twisted Tower, Khelban Blackstaff's early years, and otehr such tales, here. Maybe a story about Halaster's rise? The tragic tale of Sammaster? Oh, we could get some GREAT novels and anthologies from this... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 04:10:38
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Larloch as a kid |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 04:30:30
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Mmm...not sure how I feel about that. I mean, we already HAVE those novels, and we'd know the outcome of the events. The even would have to be really interesting for me to read something set in the past era (such as the Crown Wars. That would be interesting).
We have an entire world, surely there is an enourmous multiplicity of stories to be told. You can even tell stories set during events that were already covered, but giving new perspectives and detail (though I'd prefer exploring enterily new ground). I mean, one doesn't dismiss a good novel about the American Civil War because they know the Union is going to win.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
3) "Support for all eras" = this is the vaguest of all the ideas they are talking about. I am not sure how they can produce a single book useable by someone running a game in the Days of Thunder, and in 1485 DR. We keep hearing about certain articles on the DDi (which can only be read by folks who are already WotC fans), but the detractors can't see these to make any sort of comparison, so they aren't a useful reference. I think we will know precisely what they mean when Ed Greenwood presents Elminster's Guide to the Forgotten Realms comes out, so hopefully this point will be clarified soon-enough.
Can you clarify which articles you mean and what people are talking about them? I have a D&Di subscription, but I'm not up to date with all the stuff they publish. I haven't seen anything particularly enlightening about the "Support for all eras" on the little material I've read. But if you could point me to it, I'd be grateful. And I could relay my opinion, for what it's worth. I'm certainly not in the WotC camp where 4th edition D&D and (especially) 4th edition FR are concerned, so at least I won't be biased that way. |
Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.
Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955
My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447 |
Edited by - Mapolq on 22 Sep 2012 04:49:50 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 05:12:09
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| @Mapolq: mmm, you do have a point there. I guess it would defend on the event for me ^^; also, what is the D&Di? |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 05:40:45
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
@Mapolq: mmm, you do have a point there. I guess it would defend on the event for me ^^; also, what is the D&Di?
D&d insider, a subscription service
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Tools.aspx |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 22 Sep 2012 05:41:18 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 06:59:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
3) "Support for all eras" = this is the vaguest of all the ideas they are talking about. I am not sure how they can produce a single book useable by someone running a game in the Days of Thunder, and in 1485 DR. We keep hearing about certain articles on the DDi (which can only be read by folks who are already WotC fans), but the detractors can't see these to make any sort of comparison, so they aren't a useful reference. I think we will know precisely what they mean when Ed Greenwood presents Elminster's Guide to the Forgotten Realms comes out, so hopefully this point will be clarified soon-enough.
Can you clarify which articles you mean and what people are talking about them? I have a D&Di subscription, but I'm not up to date with all the stuff they publish. I haven't seen anything particularly enlightening about the "Support for all eras" on the little material I've read. But if you could point me to it, I'd be grateful. And I could relay my opinion, for what it's worth. I'm certainly not in the WotC camp where 4th edition D&D and (especially) 4th edition FR are concerned, so at least I won't be biased that way.
I do not have DDi, but from what I understand, after the initial 'taboo' against back-filling in past lore, the restraints put on designers/authors eased-up, and we are now getting bits of the past sprinkled into 'current' articles (even before the 1e/2e/3e era). See the James Brother' Monument of the Ancients for an example of that.
Originally the plan with 4e was to just focus on the current timeframe and ignore the past (to alleviate the 'entitlement', etc), but more and more we are seeing articles/adventures that have information useful to someone running games in a previous period.
Like I said, I'm really not the best person to point this stuff out, because I don't have DDi, but I am aware of designers (especially certain freelancers) trying to create material that is useful to everyone. It must have proven popular, because this is what we are going to get moving forward (according to everything I've heard).
Also, I'd add the two excerpts we've gotten thus-far from Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms to the list of multi-era articles. One can assume the entire book is designed that way. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Sep 2012 07:03:01 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 09:49:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Mmm...not sure how I feel about that. I mean, we already HAVE those novels, and we'd know the outcome of the events. The even would have to be really interesting for me to read something set in the past era (such as the Crown Wars. That would be interesting).
We have an entire world, surely there is an enourmous multiplicity of stories to be told. You can even tell stories set during events that were already covered, but giving new perspectives and detail (though I'd prefer exploring enterily new ground). I mean, one doesn't dismiss a good novel about the American Civil War because they know the Union is going to win.
If the novel was focused on the war itself, I would easily dismiss it. If it told a story with the war as background context, then I could consider it. But at that point the Civil War and its outcome wouldn't really be so relevant (in terms of its influence on the enjoyability and maybe even the course of the events itself, depending on the story) for the story itself. Also, as it was said, it depends on the particular event considered.
EDIT: spelling. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 22 Sep 2012 13:41:28 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 16:27:02
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| The more I read novels with able this in them, the more I hope they are one of the things never talked about again, if not disappeared altogether. Just don't see a point for them in the realms. If we need a "collective" I will take a good old illithid colony any day. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 17:35:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Well, they could also be using small stories set in the past that detail events that were not considered "big" historically. I'm thinking of tales like Josediah Starym's descent into the Twisted Tower, Khelban Blackstaff's early years, and otehr such tales, here. Maybe a story about Halaster's rise? The tragic tale of Sammaster? Oh, we could get some GREAT novels and anthologies from this...
Or they could detail things that may have been big historically, but you never really knew who was doing what. For instance, foundation of Thay, war between Imaskari and Mulan people, the fall of Raumathar and Narfell, the rise and fall of the theurgist adepts, etc.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2012 : 20:43:42
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OK, five minutes are up, What is carrot carrot?
Yes, this probably go in Sightless's silly questions, but I am asking here. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2012 : 00:44:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Sightless
OK, five minutes are up, What is carrot carrot?
Yes, this probably go in Sightless's silly questions, but I am asking here.
I'm guessing you're referring to an emoticon used above, consisting of two carets (C A R E T, not the vegetable). It is an inverted V, sometimes used to indicate a place where something should be inserted; there are also some letters (like the u in Faerûn) that have a caret over them.
As an emoticon, it is a variant of the colon-parentheses combo used to denote a smiley face. From what I've seen, it sees more usage among fans of anime (Japanese animation), and I believe that the emoticon originates from anime and manga (Japanese comics).
One thing I must ask, and I hope I'm not offending -- please feel free to ignore this, if I am, or if you prefer not to answer -- have you been blind since birth? I ask because some things would be easier to explain if you had seen them in the past... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2012 : 05:01:52
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| Fans of manga and anime=me!! I have over 600 manga. Yup yup, such things I spend my money on XD |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Falstaffsrevenge
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2013 : 00:57:55
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| I apologize, I know this is coming late. I have been away from Candlekeep and FR in general for the last 2-3 years. 5E has me hopeful, maybe even a little excited again. My responce, in regards to this old post, as to what do I wish for 5E? I would like to see more of the playful stories. I would like to have more stories about or like, Volothamp Geddarm's guides. More books like the murder mysteries, (i.e. Murder in Halruaa). Or stories of the god Mad Monkey. While these stories were mostly tongue in cheek. They provided an unique view of FR, from a difference prospective. Or maybe, I am one of the few that enjoyed those stories. Anyway that is my wish. For the lighter, happier FR where there is a happy ending and the bad guy has his comeupance. |
Some friends are like slinkies, not much use, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down stairs. |
Edited by - Falstaffsrevenge on 20 Jul 2013 00:59:15 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2013 : 14:38:28
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Fans of manga and anime=me!! I have over 600 manga. Yup yup, such things I spend my money on XD
Wow and I thought that I was a big fan of manga, still I am not too far behind at around 300 to 400 manga. |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2013 : 15:59:46
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| Oh yeah, can we get less obvious deities? |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2013 : 18:58:37
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Things I liked;
Many-Arrows Existing
Returned Abeir
Asmodeus' godhood
The end of the Blood War
Things I didn't like;
That they didn't do a damn thing with any of the above.
Wishlist for 5e;
That Many-Arrows rises to prominence
That Asmodeus retains his godhood
That Mystra dies again |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Likes/Dislikes of 4E Realms, Wish List for 5E
