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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Jul 2013 : 22:24:01
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| I hate all of this 'deicide'. It really p*sses me off so badly. It just makes the gods look weak. The gods need to be some sort of deus ex machina type of deal (if that makes any sense) and be made very mysterious and not having such widely understood behaviors. It's just bland and irritating. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 04:09:06
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I have but one, simple request...
make me fall in love again. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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daarkknight
Seeker
USA
66 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 13:44:00
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Where's the damn "like" button for this!
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I have but one, simple request...
make me fall in love again.
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"That's it!"
Quote attributed to Talor Stormhammer, paladin of Helm, when fighting a frost giant. |
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Falstaffsrevenge
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 14:39:32
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Here here Markustay!
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Some friends are like slinkies, not much use, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down stairs. |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 14:41:47
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| Yeah, pretty much what Markustay said. Although, I kind of have a much more discerning taste now and have a habit of comparing everything to The Elder Scrolls. |
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Lothlos
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 15:44:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I have but one, simple request...
make me fall in love again.
Like |
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 19:33:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Aryalómë
I hate all of this 'deicide'. It really p*sses me off so badly. It just makes the gods look weak. The gods need to be some sort of deus ex machina type of deal (if that makes any sense) and be made very mysterious and not having such widely understood behaviors. It's just bland and irritating.
I'm going to disagree with you. The gods do not have widely known motivations. If they did, we wouldn't see so much infighting among clergy. I'll give you some examples to back up my point.
1) Shar - in both Paul Kemp's "Cycle of Night" trilogy and Erik Scott de Bie's "Shadowbane" trilogy, Shar's servants are each other's greatest enemies. You even find one of them aiding a servant of Helm! In Kemp's books, 2 powerful entities are both 100% sure that they are Shar's Chosen.
2) Mask - In Paul Kemp's "Erevis Cale" trilogy, it's quite apparent that his Chosen (he has a few) have no clue what Mask is planning or how they fit into it. Cale doesn't even like Mask, and openly defies him on a few occasions. From the released "The Godborn" excerpts, it's clear that Riven (who's been following Mask for well over 100 years) STILL doesn't know anything about Mask's wishes.
3) Helm/Torm/Tyr - In the aforementioned "Shadowbane" trilogy, there is a lot of focus on the heresy of the Threefold God. By the end, there are 3 paladins who each think they are the Chosen of the Threefold God. Not only do we not find out which of them is correct, but nobody even knows which 3 gods make up this "Threefold God". Plus, most worshippers of Torm (the only 1 of the 3 still alive) believe them to be insane heretics.
4) Beshaba - In the "Shadowbane" trilogy, we have 2 powerful priests working against each other, and each thinks they are the Chosen of Beshaba.
5) Lolth - In the "Starlight and Shadows" trilogy, the "Legacy of the Drow" trilogy, and the "War of the Spider Queen" saga, we learn that no drow have the slightest idea what Lolth's plans are (outside of more evil and chaos). Even those who believe themselves to be in her highest favor could be outcast the very next day. After 2000 years of devout service, even Matron Yvonnel Baenre couldn't understand Lolth's ever changing wishes.
6) Corellon Larethian - The ending of the "Lady Penitent" trilogy reveals that redemption of the drow has been a goal that he's worked toward for a long time. Now that the "non tainted" drow have been redeemed with the aid of Eilistraee, he's making a play for those still trapped in Lolth's web. Which of his followers could possibly have guessed that?
7) Sseth and Set - The "House of Serpents" trilogy shows us that the yuanti are in bewilderment about what's going on with their gods. Outside of the sarrukh from Okoth, they don't even know who won the struggle between Set and Sseth. With Zehir now added into the mix ("Venom in Her Veins"), their faith is in disarray. Not a one of them can tell you who is granting their spells, or what plans their god has for their race.
8) Selune - In Salvatore's "Road of the Patriarch", it's unclear why she had a whole order of rapist, pedophile priests in Calimport (or maybe it was Memnon?). It's unclear why Selune never sent her virtuous followers to deal with them, but they operated this way for at least 30 years.
That's all I came come up with from novels that I remember, but if you investigate all the novels about the gods (and all the sourcebooks), you will find a number of heresies and conflict within religions. The gods are quite poorly understood, even by their most faithful disciples. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 21:22:01
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Actually (some) deities have been portrayed as childish creatures in the Realms, considering that the main reason of the Era of Upheval is that Ao let them smash things so that they could learn a lesson (also, look at the Spellplague and ToT)...
Infighting among members of the clergy of the same deity is not always motivated by lack of understanding and do not necessarily imply ''mistery''.
1)Shar's goal is known to be bringing the world to the ''still nothingness'' that was before creation (i.e. destroy it...). I'd be glad if this was only a facade tho, cause as it is now this sounds quite stupid. There might simply be a personal rivalry between the two followers you mentioned (this could be asked to ESdB, but the answer eould probably be NDA).
2)Agreed about Mask, I like how he is portrayed in those books.
3)The divine love triangle thingy made Helm and Tyr look quite clownish and not mystrious at all tbh. The threefold god heresy has potential tho.
4)Beshaba has not exactly been on the spotlight (AFAIK), so she still has the mysterious touch.
5)Lolth is quite obvious in her goals: 1) exterminate all elves 2)get the world to bow to her (her two mandates). She's an extremely vain character and even a minimal slight could cause her to ''cast down'' someone who was her chose a split second before. Sure she plots, deceives and so on, and all of this may make her look mysterious, but there's not much beyond that.
6)Except that Corellon is the one who cursed ALL the dark elves both from Ilyhtiir and Miyeritar and their descendants, because the former ones apparently used magic powered by Lolth.
He and the Seldarine didn't lift a finger to help his daughter, except when he had to get all the followers for himself. Also after that he hasn't done anything, appears to be ok with the idea of his followers kiling drow on sight and doesn't do anything to promote a non mindless approach to this matter.
About the LP, tbh it is one of the worst offenders when it comes to obvious gods.
Vhaearun recklessly trying to kill his sister in her own plane (which is in Arvandor) is out of character; Eilistraee's ''sacrifice'' (if so) is also out of character, because it implies turning her back to the vast majority of drow (also I don't see why she would give up with her quest by passing it to Corellon; and turning drow in wood elves without giving them choice is not something she would do. Many drow are proud of what they are, and her goal is to make them free to forge their own future, not reverting some random curse).
Finally, the whole act of accepting to bet everything on a Lolth's game makes the Dark Seldarine look reckless and foolish.
7)I don't know if the author put the deities on the spotlight by making the conflict obvious, but if not this is a cool approach.
8)Well, this is actually weird.
The majority of mortals in the Realms might have a poor understanding of the gods, but they have a record of being portrayed as obvious creatures in novels. That's why Wizards explictly said that it is their intention to move away from this approach.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 21 Jul 2013 21:27:21 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2013 : 21:49:24
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I am probably one of the few here who is going to miss having the gods as characters.
In regards to the followers of E and V, it is really disappointing that WotC doesn't seem to want anything to do with them anymore. I've been dying for a follow-up to LP, but it doesn't look as though we are going to get it. Oh, maybe hints here and there, but it's back to "drow are evil, end of story". |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Likes/Dislikes of 4E Realms, Wish List for 5E
