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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Aug 2012 : 20:20:03
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I want cannons. We've had Smoke-powder long enough, and its time it got a little more attention. I think making the tech level of FR appropriate to the same earth-year would work fine now.
By keeping the 'magic' in Smoke-powder, DMs can adjust how much of this he/she wants in their campaign. However, i don't want it to just get ignored again. maybe a brief mention in the CG and then an article or two.
Think 'Jack Sparrow' - how important were guns to the movies? canons were used a lot, but they made a point of Jack only firing his gun once, at the very end of the movie. Guns don't have to have prominence, but cannons make for excellent pirate-style campaigns, and FR has several very cool 'pirate areas' that get neglected.
A train might be too high-tech for The Realms, but I don't think cannon would rock the boat (pun intended).
I like this idea. Yes, time has passed, dependence on magic entirely has waned. I especially like the idea of cannons mounted on earthmotes, cannons mounted on ships, cannons mounted on skyships, cannons mounted into golems, cannons carried by earth elementals, etc... This would be great for the "United Tharchs", and might be a specialty for the school of metal elementalism.
I get plenty of "cannons" and other such weapons in most every other form of stuff I read.....I would be devastated if the realms went that way.
If they are on ships, earthmotes(which hopefully disappear) how would you reconcile not having them in castles, keeps , mounted with cavalry. You can't. They would be everywhere. Then what you have is no need for knights, paladins, archers,etc etc.....just foot soldiers to be ground-up or protect the artillery while the canons take over warfare. In my mind and more proliferation of smoke powder, cannon our guns would destroy the realms I love. I mean tired of Tamm lording it over Thay? Get a group of mercs, some blunderbusses and some magic dead pebbles....whamo no more arch mages. Once you go over the tipping point....boom, no more high magic fantasy realms.
So for me smokepowder and cannons are all right just as they are in the realms......rare and dangerous enough to the user, they dont gain popularity. Im hoping the "fix" magic in the realms more like pre-spellplague, not make it obsolete. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 31 Aug 2012 20:23:04 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2012 : 20:38:03
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One other idea just popped in for my "United Tharchs" idea. We know that the Zulkirs of these schools of magic would be elected by their school's practictioners. If we had this idea of an executive office to balance the council of zulkirs... how does he get put in office? I like the idea that the zulkirs are for life and that the executive office changes every 5 years or so through election (no limits on number of times he can be re-elected).... its just corrupt enough to keep the Zulkirs in power that they don't balk at the slight change in their governmental structure. Also, to give the Tharchions more power, maybe they are elected to power by their people in their given Tharch and not promoted by the council of Zulkirs. However, maybe they have to come from one of the noble families within the tharch (the Daerons and Daeronesses of each Tharch). The autharch positions (lesser bureaucrats within a Tharch) might be electable from even the common levels.
So, I speak a lot of elections.... who can vote? I don't see this being a sexist society, so both women and men would be able to vote. However, they may be a racial and class-based society. Therefore, maybe only those who are wizards or who own land can vote. Also, maybe based upon the amount of land, or your titles, or being a wizard... maybe you have more votes to cast than others. Maybe within noble families, the leader of the family casts all votes for the entire family, except for mages within the family who cast their own vote. Again, the idea is to build a semi-corrupt system to allow for some adventure making. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2012 : 21:03:28
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Only people of pure Mulan blood should vote (which leads to plenty of good espionage-style adventures, wherein folks can prove or disprove their 'pure' heritage).
I like the idea of the Tharchions and Zulkirs being like a Senate and Congress. That means we'd just need an executive (military) branch, and a judicial branch (a'la the Supreme Court). One to be in charge of regions, one to be in charge of magical schools, one to be in charge of foreign policy (and the military), and the judicial branch to keep the others in check (provide balance).
And that also gives you a situation like Rome - one prominent member of the Senate could be trying to seize absolute power for themselves (dictator in perpetuity). I can see Szass Tam being like the emperor in SW (who pulled similar tactics to give himself absolute power).
Although, I'd actually rather Szass Tam stay on the High Plateau back in Thay, plotting and planning (with many spies in 'New Thay').
Another scenario - move the Shou closer. 4e tried this, and it was somewhat successful, but you don't really get the culture, just the people. What if the Shou Empire took over Murghom? They may have had plans to move straight across faerun, but something back-home made them halt their plans of conquest in Murghom, right on Faerun's doorstep.
I hate loosing Semphar, but Murghom really never had anything important going on. It could make an excellent far-western outpost of a mighty Shou empire (lead by the lich Tan Chin). It could also mean the Tuigan are being driven further west as well (in Nar and the Moonlands beyond).
Just some ideas, is all.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Aug 2012 21:06:23 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2012 : 21:31:11
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So on the topic of a new Thay...
My original idea for a Thayan Civil War put Thay-in-Exile in Mulmaster. They've already got a fair amount of influence there, so it wouldn't be difficult for them to make that the capital of their new realm.
Any thoughts on that? |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2012 : 21:33:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Only people of pure Mulan blood should vote (which leads to plenty of good espionage-style adventures, wherein folks can prove or disprove their 'pure' heritage).
sounds more Thay-like if
Only people of pure Mulan blood with a minimum of spellcasting ability |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2012 : 21:34:01
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| As for cannons, if I want artillery with my fantasy, I've got the Iron Kingdoms for that. The Realms has gotten along quite well without the great equalizer that firearms and cannons represent, and I don't want to see anything more on that front than we already have. Otherwise it will lead to the decline of magic, and who wants a fantasy setting without magic? |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2012 : 21:37:17
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I am very tired of RSE's and cannons / gunpowder is a major RSE since it increase the power of rulers, ordinary fighters versus wizards
Why hire a wizard there cost a fortune in salary and can only cast a few fireballs per day when your cannon can keep firing shots?
Why be afraid of the dragon?, the cannons will shoot it down from the sky |
Edited by - Gustaveren on 31 Aug 2012 21:37:53 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2012 : 22:00:49
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I'm not saying to add anything that isn't already there - I just don't want it to be ignored any longer. There are numerous instances of it in old lore, including at least two large-scale military encounters.
I had a lot more here, but erased it all. There really is no point in arguing where folks tastes are concerned. I don't expect everyone to like everything I like. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2012 : 22:46:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm not saying to add anything that isn't already there - I just don't want it to be ignored any longer. There are numerous instances of it in old lore, including at least two large-scale military encounters.
I had a lot more here, but erased it all. There really is no point in arguing where folks tastes are concerned. I don't expect everyone to like everything I like.
yes, i remember a few cases were it was mentioned, but with a certain chance of explosion risk, but it would significantly change the realms if gunpowder become sufficiently stable for cannons to become more common |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 00:04:50
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It's very easy to mess up gunpowder weapons with a little magic. Rain or sparks can cause big problems.
Primitive cannon aren't going to vanquish heavy fortifications or render useless armored men overnight. Gunpowder weapons existed along armor and heavy fortifications for quite a while in the real world.Yes, cannon will have an impact, but if FR has castles even given all the magic…
The ‘magical’ nature of smoke powder is a game design way of controlling its cost. Making it so expensive makes it much less attractive for military use. In the real world, guns won out in large measure because they were a good choice from an economic and logistical point of view. Early guns weren’t so good that they were obviously better than muscle, torsion, etc. powered weapons.
I’m not sure that guns in the Realms will ever be economically attractive on a large scale, unless “smoke powder” is ruled to simply be ordinary gunpowder.
What is the canon status of the smokepowder/gunpowder? (No pun intended)
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 00:13:09
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I like gunpowder, but I do agree that it's not something that needs to be all over the setting. I personnally prefer if production of smoke-powder is a monopoly of the Church of Gond. Make it unreliable or even inert if not blessed by a priest of Gond.
That should keep it fairly rare outside Lantan and a few other locales. Canon-makers of Tilverton?
With the costs kept high, smoke-powder/gunpowder will never become the basis of a widespread military technology, but will remain the stuff of exotic or specialist weapons.
A few cannon are not going to 'blow up' the Realms.
In other settings, I sometimes use this technology much more freely.
Check my sig.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 00:13:55
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I like that part about smokepowder being magical
In my campaigns will I probably also say it is required with a crafting component there comes from Kara-tur in order to craft it.
That will create an extra reason for trade caravans to travel to kara-tur |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 00:17:58
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
I like gunpowder, but I do agree that it's not something that needs to be all over the setting. I personnally prefer if production of smoke-powder is a monopoly of the Church of Gond. Make it unreliable or even inert if not blessed by a priest of Gond.
That should keep it fairly rare outside Lantan and a few other locales. Canon-makers of Tilverton?
With the costs kept high, smoke-powder/gunpowder will never become the basis of a widespread military technology, but will remain the stuff of exotic or specialist weapons.
A few cannon are not going to 'blow up' the Realms.
In other settings, I sometimes use this technology much more freely.
Check my sig.
I seem to remember cannon and the secrets of how to craft smokepowder had been mentioned for at least 2 groups. I think, but might remember wrong that thay was mentioned as having some cannon defenses for a harbour and also one of the pirate island even though one of them might buy it from the other |
Edited by - Gustaveren on 01 Sep 2012 00:20:25 |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 00:24:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Gustaveren
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
I like gunpowder, but I do agree that it's not something that needs to be all over the setting. I personnally prefer if production of smoke-powder is a monopoly of the Church of Gond. Make it unreliable or even inert if not blessed by a priest of Gond.
That should keep it fairly rare outside Lantan and a few other locales. Canon-makers of Tilverton?
With the costs kept high, smoke-powder/gunpowder will never become the basis of a widespread military technology, but will remain the stuff of exotic or specialist weapons.
A few cannon are not going to 'blow up' the Realms.
In other settings, I sometimes use this technology much more freely.
Check my sig.
I seem to remember cannon and the secrets of how to craft smokepowder had been mentioned for at least 2 groups. I think, but might remember wrong that thay was mentioned as having some cannon defenses for a harbour and also one of the pirate island even though one of them might buy it from the other
I'm about 99% sure you are right. Lantan made it, but I believe some later 2e soruces mention that the Amnians were also making the stuff.
I would retcon that to be the Church of Gond in Amn.
Keeping the powder as a church monopoly is a good idea, IMO.
Of course, that's just in Faerun.
Kara-Tur...that could be a problem. The Shou don't worship Gond. But did they get blown up?
It's a little cheapo, but perhaps the Spellplague messed up the Shou by rendering all their non-Gond-approved powder inert? I find that pretty lame (even though I suggested it) but with Shou-towns in Faerun now...
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 01 Sep 2012 00:27:02 |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 00:29:28
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Doesn't one of the novels(I think one of the Watercourse ones-- I read about it in a review) mention the ingredients for smoekpwoder-- which are identical to real gunpowder?
If that is correct, and if you accept novels as game world canon (I don't, but many people do), then I don't see how gunpowder could remain secret very long. It's just not that complex, nor are the ingredients that rare. With all the alchemists and sages running about... |
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 00:36:32
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Doesn't one of the novels(I think one of the Watercourse ones-- I read about it in a review) mention the ingredients for smoekpwoder-- which are identical to real gunpowder?
If that is correct, and if you accept novels as game world canon (I don't, but many people do), then I don't see how gunpowder could remain secret very long. It's just not that complex, nor are the ingredients that rare. With all the alchemists and sages running about...
Well, one could always say, that in order to make it stable, that is, low explosion risk, do you need a rare ingredient from Kara-Tur. If you just use the other recipe are there a risk (10%?) for the cannon to explode when fired |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 01:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Doesn't one of the novels(I think one of the Watercourse ones-- I read about it in a review) mention the ingredients for smoekpwoder-- which are identical to real gunpowder?
It's long been a dictate of the Realmslore that smoke powder *is* a magical powder similar to gun powder. |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 02:58:04
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Doesn't one of the novels(I think one of the Watercourse ones-- I read about it in a review) mention the ingredients for smoekpwoder-- which are identical to real gunpowder?
It's long been a dictate of the Realmslore that smoke powder *is* a magical powder similar to gun powder.
Thanks, The Sage.
Your information doesn't answer my tangential question about a possible novel reference, but it does confirm what I already know about the official 2E status of 'smoke powder.' It works as per the ¡¥core¡¦ rules. It's right there in the PHB, on page 96: "powder is treated as a magical item in these rules."
More importantly for Realms, FRA states the same thing with more background detail on page 11.
But what is the current (4E) status? Has nothing been altered? Is it not addressed? Retconned out?
I don¡¦t own the 4E books. I¡¦ve thought about buying them. Some of the changes look pretty cool. I¡¦d more likely just take my OGB and maybe bribe a map genius like Marusktay to help me customize some maps¡K
Anyhow, that¡¦s off topic.
ļ
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 03:10:34
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Doesn't one of the novels(I think one of the Watercourse ones-- I read about it in a review) mention the ingredients for smoekpwoder-- which are identical to real gunpowder?
It's long been a dictate of the Realmslore that smoke powder *is* a magical powder similar to gun powder.
Thanks, The Sage.
Your information doesn't answer my tangential question about a possible novel reference ...
I've yet to read those novels, so I can't comment on that particular aspect.
quote:
But what is the current (4E) status? Has nothing been altered? Is it not addressed? Retconned out?
It still exists. It's just been severely deemphasized. The 4e FR designers wanted to focus more on Faerûn's high fantasy elements, of which smokepowder is not a part. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 03:36:02
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Doesn't one of the novels(I think one of the Watercourse ones-- I read about it in a review) mention the ingredients for smoekpwoder-- which are identical to real gunpowder?
It's long been a dictate of the Realmslore that smoke powder *is* a magical powder similar to gun powder.
Here's a scene from pp. 132-133, Chapter 28 of Lies of Light. (The man is Devorast, and the woman is Phyrea.)
quote:
"Have you heard the word 'smokepowder'?" he asked.
She cleared her throat and pulled away just far enough that she could look at him again. "Some kind of alchemy that causes things to explode?" He nodded and she continued, "But what would you want with magic? I thought you were determined not to use magic."
"I use some form of magic every day, here and there," he said. "I have no aversion to the right tool for the right job, but anyway smokepowder is not magical in nature. It's a mixture of rare earth elements that together are quite volatile."
Hence, if Devorast is a reliable source, then it looks like smokepowder is not magical. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 01 Sep 2012 03:40:42 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 03:48:40
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| Points out that in 3e smokepowder was magical, at least according to the FRCS and uh Magic of Faerun, which makes sense because it has been magical in nature since 1e as Sage pointed out. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
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Edited by - Kuje on 01 Sep 2012 03:49:48 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 04:01:55
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Three possibilities: (1) Phil Athans wasn't made aware of that lore; (2) Devorast didn't exactly know everything about the smokepowder's nature; or (3) they changed that lore in 4E. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 04:02:07
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Thanks guys!
You are lore masters.
In FR, I like the 'smokepowder is magical or semi-magical' approach, for the reasons I gave in a previous post (just a little up thread).
(In some other settings, I treat it as a mundane concoction. For example, in my current D&D game (homebrew stuff + Thunder Rift), the powder is non-magical but it's pretty new technology. Neither corning nor matchlocks have been invented. Cannon are mostly unreliable or crude. We're talking strictly primitive guns.)
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 04:09:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Three possibilities: (1) Phil Athans wasn't made aware of that lore; (2) Devorast didn't exactly know everything about the smokepowder's nature; or (3) they changed that lore in 4E.
Could Devorast have been pulling her leg, or flat out lying to her?Would that be out of character?
But yeah, it is odd.
Odder still is 'rare earth elements.' Sulfur isn't very rare on Earth; I don't think it's rare on Toril. Charcoal and saltpeter can't be rare. Saltpetre can be processed from stables-- plenty of those. Charcoal is made from wood. Plenty of that.
So maybe he is talking about some non-magical, but expensive due to components, explosive that is NOT gunpowder at all. Maybe the smoke powder he is using is something else? Could 'smoke powder' just be a word for 'any powdered explosive'?
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 04:20:09
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No, he was not lying. He had no reason to. He said what he believed was true. Perhaps there's two types of smokepowder: magical (primarily made by alchemists and wizards) and non-magical (made by people who don't wield magic but possess enough knowledge about earth elements). |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 09:44:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
No, he was not lying. He had no reason to. He said what he believed was true. Perhaps there's two types of smokepowder: magical (primarily made by alchemists and wizards) and non-magical (made by people who don't wield magic but possess enough knowledge about earth elements).
There is not going to be alchemical smokepowder in my campaign world. I want it to have a magical nature in order to keep a powerbalance. Otherwise do it seem logical that non wizard realms would expand at the expense of wizard nations. |
Edited by - Gustaveren on 01 Sep 2012 09:46:17 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 14:35:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So on the topic of a new Thay...
My original idea for a Thayan Civil War put Thay-in-Exile in Mulmaster. They've already got a fair amount of influence there, so it wouldn't be difficult for them to make that the capital of their new realm.
Any thoughts on that?
I like this idea if this group of Thayans actually work up enough power to seize a portion of the priador back and become the ones to form what I'm calling "Reborn Thay". Maybe they establish gates between Bezantur and Mulmaster, and maybe they have a hidden alliance with the Tharchion in Eltabbar. Throw in that the "thought police" of Mulmaster (forget their name) help form the schools of divination and enchantments. Also, if this were the case, the Banites of Mulmaster need to be attempting SOMETHING (what exactly... can't say... maybe they're "risen Xvimists"... maybe they're there to promote the worship of Bane through the High Imperceptor in Mulmaster) through these new "zulkirs". This culture I see as one that's all about gathering power, which has a distinct difference from the original Thay which was more pure in that it wanted to focus on Arcane research... granted to get power in the end... but more focused on research. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gustaveren
Learned Scribe
Denmark
197 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 14:42:43
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I like this idea if this group of Thayans actually work up enough power to seize a portion of the priador back and become the ones to form what I'm calling "Reborn Thay". Maybe they establish gates between Bezantur and Mulmaster, and maybe they have a hidden alliance with the Tharchion in Eltabbar. Throw in that the "thought police" of Mulmaster (forget their name) help form the schools of divination and enchantments. Also, if this were the case, the Banites of Mulmaster need to be attempting SOMETHING (what exactly... can't say... maybe they're "risen Xvimists"... maybe they're there to promote the worship of Bane through the High Imperceptor in Mulmaster) through these new "zulkirs". This culture I see as one that's all about gathering power, which has a distinct difference from the original Thay which was more pure in that it wanted to focus on Arcane research... granted to get power in the end... but more focused on research.
Maybe the looted some ancient mulhorandi tombs in areas no longer controlled by mulhorandi do to their disappearance
they use these items to recapture part of thay
when the mulhorandi are back will they be seriously angry when they find out some of their holy tomb cities has been looted |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 16:49:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Only people of pure Mulan blood should vote (which leads to plenty of good espionage-style adventures, wherein folks can prove or disprove their 'pure' heritage).
I like the idea of the Tharchions and Zulkirs being like a Senate and Congress. That means we'd just need an executive (military) branch, and a judicial branch (a'la the Supreme Court). One to be in charge of regions, one to be in charge of magical schools, one to be in charge of foreign policy (and the military), and the judicial branch to keep the others in check (provide balance).
And that also gives you a situation like Rome - one prominent member of the Senate could be trying to seize absolute power for themselves (dictator in perpetuity). I can see Szass Tam being like the emperor in SW (who pulled similar tactics to give himself absolute power).
Although, I'd actually rather Szass Tam stay on the High Plateau back in Thay, plotting and planning (with many spies in 'New Thay').
Another scenario - move the Shou closer. 4e tried this, and it was somewhat successful, but you don't really get the culture, just the people. What if the Shou Empire took over Murghom? They may have had plans to move straight across faerun, but something back-home made them halt their plans of conquest in Murghom, right on Faerun's doorstep.
I hate loosing Semphar, but Murghom really never had anything important going on. It could make an excellent far-western outpost of a mighty Shou empire (lead by the lich Tan Chin). It could also mean the Tuigan are being driven further west as well (in Nar and the Moonlands beyond).
Just some ideas, is all.
I initially like the idea that only those of Pure Mulan Blood can vote, but I also think that we need to take into account that the Thayan culture has been somewhat changed by a century away... plus the fact that the culture I'm talking about is moving into an area that's decidedly non-mulan. That, plus, if we don't actually make them somewhat different than their predecessors, we haven't really let the realms grow. The thing to me is to take the seeds of what made Thay great and improve upon it. Therefore, it may be that those who can prove they are noble (i.e. of the bloodline of former Daerons and Daeronnesses of Thay) and pure Mulan Blood can vote (which after more than a century outside their own culture should be becoming minimal), but that there's also allowances for others to vote too. For instance, maybe guild leaders of certain guilds are allowed to vote. Maybe its to a point that certain groups can vote, but only within their local Tharchion. Thus, maybe within a Tharchion with a decidedly large number of dwarves or Genasi, maybe the leaders within these cultures are given the ability to cast votes (for instance, maybe the leader of the dwarves, his family, their high priests, and maybe the leaders of several powerful craft guilds amongst the dwarves) in local elections only... as a token show that they have the ability to participate in the politics of the Tharch (whereas the number of Daerons, Daeronnesses, wizards, and others who may have the ability to vote in new Tharchions and autharchs easily drown out their vote). This takes the idea of this new Thay to a new path, while still maintaining mostly human control, with more control to the wizards, and slightly more control to the mulan population over any other populations.... just enough to make it palatable to those who are slowly being subjugated by this new regime. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2012 : 17:00:46
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Originally posted by The Red Walker
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Originally posted by sleyvas
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Originally posted by Markustay
I want cannons. We've had Smoke-powder long enough, and its time it got a little more attention. I think making the tech level of FR appropriate to the same earth-year would work fine now.
By keeping the 'magic' in Smoke-powder, DMs can adjust how much of this he/she wants in their campaign. However, i don't want it to just get ignored again. maybe a brief mention in the CG and then an article or two.
Think 'Jack Sparrow' - how important were guns to the movies? canons were used a lot, but they made a point of Jack only firing his gun once, at the very end of the movie. Guns don't have to have prominence, but cannons make for excellent pirate-style campaigns, and FR has several very cool 'pirate areas' that get neglected.
A train might be too high-tech for The Realms, but I don't think cannon would rock the boat (pun intended).
I like this idea. Yes, time has passed, dependence on magic entirely has waned. I especially like the idea of cannons mounted on earthmotes, cannons mounted on ships, cannons mounted on skyships, cannons mounted into golems, cannons carried by earth elementals, etc... This would be great for the "United Tharchs", and might be a specialty for the school of metal elementalism.
I get plenty of "cannons" and other such weapons in most every other form of stuff I read.....I would be devastated if the realms went that way.
If they are on ships, earthmotes(which hopefully disappear) how would you reconcile not having them in castles, keeps , mounted with cavalry. You can't. They would be everywhere. Then what you have is no need for knights, paladins, archers,etc etc.....just foot soldiers to be ground-up or protect the artillery while the canons take over warfare. In my mind and more proliferation of smoke powder, cannon our guns would destroy the realms I love. I mean tired of Tamm lording it over Thay? Get a group of mercs, some blunderbusses and some magic dead pebbles....whamo no more arch mages. Once you go over the tipping point....boom, no more high magic fantasy realms.
So for me smokepowder and cannons are all right just as they are in the realms......rare and dangerous enough to the user, they dont gain popularity. Im hoping the "fix" magic in the realms more like pre-spellplague, not make it obsolete.
I only like it because they already had this technology in Thay since the grey box. Thayan bombards were essentially cannons with problematic aim. It would seem that given a bit of time, they'd develop a better aiming mechanism. Now, I'm not saying this technology needs to leave the hands of say this new Thay, such that maybe this is one of the things that helps them maintain power. I also wouldn't have a problem with this being within their strongholds. Again, basically, I'm saying big ass cannons, not small arms, not rockets. The portable versions might need to be built into something extremely strong that can transport them (such as golems) and thereby also be expensive. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Likes/Dislikes of 4E Realms, Wish List for 5E
