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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 01:21:25
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This appears to be the most appropriate forum.
An RP heavy old campaign is going to start up again with some familiar characters resurfacing. We finally decided to explore what kind of storylines there may be had by making the leap and will give the 4e Realms its chance. For those of you who moved any of your characters forward in time to the new setting, how did you go about it? What tales do you have to tell?
BACKGROUND
The last we saw of my character (“Calimar Vrinn”) in 1374 DR he was stranded in the outer planes. He was an exceptionally young member of a long lived race, a 16 year old elf who developed great powers of sorcery.
You got me. I admit he is a drow elf. Commence the eye rolling. I didn’t play him like the traditional drow stereotypes. His story briefly: He was almost murdered as a child because his family feared his burgeoning sorcerer powers. He made it topside after an unusual turn of events, and was eventually picked up by the adventuring band. His experience caused him to develop quite the wanderlust with a personality not unlike a kender. Not the lord it over others type or the tortured teenage angst Drizzt Do’Urden type.
THE CAMPAIGN SETTING AS IT RELATES TO THE PC
The campaign restarts in the Year of Deep Water Drifting (1480 DR) to take advantage of the Rise of the Underdark event. After more than a century in the planes (he’s picked up the Sigil dialect) he’s now a grown elf (mentally in his mid 20s by our standards) who endured fighting in the blood war, the horrors of which pushed him all the way to neutral, He survived the planar cataclysms that occurred during the Spellplague, and a majorly changed FR cosmology (the three major cosmologies all exist in this campaign, as a sort of alternate planar reality accessible through Sigil). In the intervening years he was somehow locked out of returning to Faerun, which didn’t bother him all that much considering he had a multiverse of planes to explore.
Calimar makes his 4e debut in battle with a devil. Ashmadei summoners concurrently summon the demon to Faerun. A gate forms as the devil is apparently slain and Calimar leaps through, to the consternation of the Ashmadei (and he magically loses his gear along the way) Calimar tries to bluff that he’s the devil in an assumed form, the Ashmadei see his wounds, all hell breaks loose and he ends up in the woods. He survives out in the woods for a little while until he gets jumped by a drow raiding party seeking magic for the Rise of the Underdark storyline. The drow raids are a continuing problem for the hero considering he has nothing to do with the drow and only a couple of living beings on Faerun may even know who he is. He still cares more about seeing the sites than saving lives. I’m looking forward to the experience of RPing a character at such a different stage of his life.
THEMES
We’ve already set up several themes for this character, including without limitation:
1) Culture Shock- He’s essentially a Planescape character now, and lived only a tiny portion of his life in Faerun. Bad for him is the resurgent drow activity which sets off everyone’s drow paranoia;
2) Tourist: He likes to travel and isn’t concerned with the plight of others, although he’ll defer to the group he’s with. Adventurers are a good way to see the world;
3) His home city was sacked during the WoTSQ series (he was already long gone). Nearly all of his family are dead but the few that still live, trying to rebuild their House, may want to force their long lost but rumoredly powerful sibling back into the fold when they discover he may be alive; and
4) Humor: His planar experience has given him a somewhat unique perspective and list of contacts. We’ve already scripted a scene where he (and some members of his soon to be new party) are captured by demon summoners and are to be presented as a sacrifice to a glabrezu. To the consternation of the summoners and the glabrezu.Calimar recognizes the glabrezu and makes some unusual demands from his cage. “Baphomelette! You cheating bastard, you still owe me that hundred gold from that card game in the Rusty Pit in the Hive Quarter! 5 years ago!” “Calimar!? How did you find me here? Your debt collecting ways know NO BOUNDS!”
TECHNICAL DETAILS
He’s been rolled back to level 20 to take advantage of epic destinies (Keybearer was practically written for him). We’re conceding that this (and other returning characters) didn’t advance off-screen other than necessary re-designing under 4e. Although 4e FR drow are given on average 200 year lifespan (down from the 1000 in the original DotU), there is no hard cap upper limit on age so we’re still operating with the assumption that he is now a younger adult in terms of maturity.
Mod edit: relocated to a more appropriate shelf 
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Apr 2012 18:46:18
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EltonJ
Learned Scribe
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 03:44:38
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I don't play in the era. :)
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 04:26:40
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To the OP: you're probably better off in the Running the Realms forum.
Our group decided to create characters related to the characters that adventured in the pre-Spellplague era. This was interesting for me because I figured I'd get to run some of the longer-lived original characters as NPCs (though I never got the chance as it turns out).
There were a few elves and one dwarf in the group, so having a separation of one or two generations between old and new characters was possible.
I wanted to start with fresh PCs at level one, so we opted not to bring the originals forward.
Calimar sounds kind of interesting. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 18:27:25
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quote:
Originally posted by EltonJ
I don't play in the era. :)
Now imagine you had a sincere question about an earlier era. Would you feel welcomed if someone just jumped on your thread for help and stated "I don't play in that era"? 
Veritas, I have some pending deadlines, but I hope someone can help out. If not, I'll try to jump back on here when time permits. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36802 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 18:48:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by EltonJ
I don't play in the era. :)
Now imagine you had a sincere question about an earlier era. Would you feel welcomed if someone just jumped on your thread for help and stated "I don't play in that era"?
I have to agree. If you're not a fan of a particular era, it's best not to comment in threads pertaining to that era. If you can offer something constructive, great, but otherwise it's just not helpful. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 19:00:05
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My group's situation was a bit different. It was an Avatar campaign (one where we play 'ourselves' in the game) and thus, we were stuck on Faerûn in the 1372 DR timeline. We had some mighty adventures, did some good deeds and were generally well liked by most people. We made our "base" in Waterdeep and most of our character took professions that were similar to our classes. Due to our close proximity to Blackstaff tower, my wife's character becamse good friends with Khelban and had him working on a way to send us back home.
As the months and years passed, he finally found a way (via magical mirror) to the correct time and place on Earth. It was more tricky than a usual portal because we wanted to return at precisely the same time we left. So the understanding was we couldn't take anything magical through the mirror because of unforseen changes in the Weave and how it they would interfere with the portal. Dressed in our Sunday's best, 4 of us jumped through. A big flash happened and we were expelled from the mirror onto the stone floor of Blackstaff tower. We had figured it didn't work but when we came to, we were in a classroom with a bunch of freightened students and a teacher who's fase was drained of color.
We came to learn that the portal malfunctioned during the "jump" and we were stuck in limbo for the better part of a century. Khelban assumed we made it through and, as the years passed, had the mirror put in storage. The spellplague occured within that time and the mirror was considered useless. So one fine spring, 104 years later a teach came across this relic and wanted to use it for a demonstration. A quick few arcane phrases intended to make the glass on the portal waver and shatter instead activated the dormant piece and spilled us onto the floor.
A few people we left behind perished, two humans who no longer gamed with our group so it was no big deal for them. Anotehr two, both Dwarves, were still alive and doing fairly well almost a century later. One started up his own weapons and armor shop and had two kids as his apprentices. The other started out a resturaunt buisness (The Busty Wench) and was very popular in Waterdeep. Suffice to say, the longer lived races made it well enought, any human that didn't make the jump perished (be it lifespan or adventuring). |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2012 : 19:09:10
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What is asked here are a few parts.
The character away from home world is not a problem at all, in 100 years things can occur. Sea rise and fall, and so on, in this case the spell plague occurred, Nations realigned and so on.
The larger problem I see is adjusting to the new rule set, however that could be told off as learning new skills on the planes and forgetting old skills.
In short if player will adjust to new rules, I see no problems. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31768 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 01:38:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by EltonJ
I don't play in the era. :)
Now imagine you had a sincere question about an earlier era. Would you feel welcomed if someone just jumped on your thread for help and stated "I don't play in that era"?
Indeed. I can understand Elton's desire to sincerely comment on the fact that he might no play in a particular era, so that would make it difficult for him to contribute.
But, at the same time, it can be a little disheartening when that's about the only response received thus far.
quote:
Veritas, I have some pending deadlines, but I hope someone can help out. If not, I'll try to jump back on here when time permits.
I'm a little pressed for time myself, but I would like to add something to this discussion, eventually. The Sigil/cosmology angle intrigues my tingling planar-sense. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 03:29:47
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I'd be happy to expand a little on our cosmological structure as it developed, and I believe providing an initial explanation by analogy might clarify the concept.
Take the concept of Superman. The character is something of a mythic archetype. Versions of Superman appear in books, movies, etc. but all of it flows from this nigh mythological concept of this incredible being who stands for truth and justice.
Similarly the core cosmology (the archetype)is the Great Wheel. We've always been fans of that design concept with Sigil as the hub(and perhaps map) of the multiverse.
However the great wheel is fueled, in part, by belief. As the events of 2e (Die Vecna Die) and 3e-4e (Spellplague) caused cracks in the multiversal system, some concepts (like the planar tree and the 4e cosmology) drifted off, in part because of changed belief systems. The new cosmos existing in tandem, but not a part of the original cosmology. In other words, the 4e Realms cosmology is like reading a book about Superman, you percieve an aspect of the greater mythology. The current cosmology drifted away from the great wheel to be independent and vibrant, but in some obscure way, tied to the original. Effectively it exists almost as a parallel reality. Certain aspects of those, have been duplicated, (e.g. Asmodeus who we perceive as more than a demon lord but as a sort of conception of the nine hells) is being interpreted through the 4e cosmology, but he's part of the bigger Asmodeus mythology. However certain realms deities, being so tied in to that particular world drifted in to the new FR cosmology. Others (the deities that exited) may have vestiges representing them, but they are part of a bigger concept that doesn't lock itself into one world.
For the moment, to get back in to the Great wheel, requires finding one of the rare paths in this spinoff cosmology to get into Sigil. From there one can make their way into the traditional great wheel, and continue visiting worlds like Oerth, Aerbrynis, etc.
This way our characters are not foreclosed from experiencing any of the published cosmologies and even have the potential to see the same place, represented differently, through the different cosmological realities. |
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EltonJ
Learned Scribe
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 07:03:14
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Well, I apologize for my abrupt -- "I don't play in that era." But, yes, people seemed to have seen my point before. How I would handle the time jump --
Instead of allowing Cyric to Kill Mystra, I would have a world wizard war. Every Wizard in Toril was involved somehow. The Spellplague wasn't anything, it was a war instigated by Manshoon in order to destroy Fzoul Chembryl. The idea is that the World Wizard War is to divert attention from this struggle. And yes, Manshoon and Elminster would probably struggle at some point. But since every wizard is at War, then "Something Awful" happens over the course of it.
It could go on for a hundred years, and Halruua could be utterly destroyed, and Mulhorand burned to the ground or something like that. But in the end, Manshoon accomplishes his real goal, the slaying of Fzoul. However, to start something this big, the War eventually took a life of it's own; as the Spirit of Tempus probably takes over the war (Tempus represents War itself -- that's why he's Choatic Neutral). However, since it's a Wizard's War, it's not impossible that a Lessser Deity of Wizardly Combat might arise.
At the end, you could have borders redrawn all over the place in the Realms. I think that would have been a better way of introducing 4e rather than a spellplague. :)
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 16:13:15
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| To clarify, I'm not DMing the game. My group of Realms lovers are working collaboratively to build the setting and explore certain themes with old and new characters. For example, another player's character has been a denizen of a unique mirror of life trapping in Undermountain for quite a long time. He'll be exploring how the effects of solitude on his human character. At least his stay was somewhat comfortable, that mirror's internal "world" was a tiny inn. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36802 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2012 : 18:21:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
To clarify, I'm not DMing the game. My group of Realms lovers are working collaboratively to build the setting and explore certain themes with old and new characters. For example, another player's character has been a denizen of a unique mirror of life trapping in Undermountain for quite a long time. He'll be exploring how the effects of solitude on his human character. At least his stay was somewhat comfortable, that mirror's internal "world" was a tiny inn.
That's actually a nifty idea, particularly if the inn was populated by others trapped in the mirror. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31768 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2012 : 01:49:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
To clarify, I'm not DMing the game. My group of Realms lovers are working collaboratively to build the setting and explore certain themes with old and new characters. For example, another player's character has been a denizen of a unique mirror of life trapping in Undermountain for quite a long time. He'll be exploring how the effects of solitude on his human character. At least his stay was somewhat comfortable, that mirror's internal "world" was a tiny inn.
I'll tweak Wooly's suggestion, slightly, and offer that those others trapped in the mirror, are really folk from the -- perhaps -- centuries worth of people who have all been trapped in the tiny inn. This offers the characters in your group the opportunity to explore past eras and Realmsfolk of the past when they interact with them -- especially if you want to swing back and forth from the Spellplague to the pre-Spellplague period. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2012 : 09:01:37
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We've already decided to potentially include incarnations of past campaigns in our game. Might not meet them in the current "evil" campaign, since we're in the underdark, but we've already discussed running into the dwarf Makktat and his group when we turn around and play the good guys Tethyamar reclamation campaign. Good old Makktat was the first dwarf I ever played back when I was 10 or so. Imagine he's still banging around the halls northwest of Eveningstar in the Storm Horns.
Haven't had to move anyone forward with a current campaign however. |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2012 : 18:18:20
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I'd like to add, great suggestions from my fellow posters about populating the mirror of life trapping with individuals from every era. (This is one OLD mirror).
To add an element of horror to those events, the mirror was struck by spellplague fire which proceeded to slowly cause it to melt over years. The mirror's internal world represented the experience as the inn slowly catching fire and burning down. (Imagine being trapped in a burning building for decades!)
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2012 : 18:44:56
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I think rebuilding PCs from a 4e ruleset into the new edition ruleset can be a lot less difficult than it appears, in part because you have this awesome tool of *flavor*: you can make any ability operate however you want, just by saying that the power resembles a different thing when you use it. Power Attack, Cleave, etc., are still around in recognizable forms, but instead of Spring Attack you take the Rogue power Deft Strike, etc.
I'm in two 4e games that have a lot to do with the Realms, one I'm DMing that is 80% Realms (the other 20% being Planescape), and the other I'm playing which is about 30% Realms (70% Planescape and other worlds).
In the game I'm running, none of the characters are from the earlier era, but a lot of the stories that come up are heavily steeped in it. For instance, Eilistraee's sacrifice to begin the redemption of the drow is carried through in one of the character's stories: she currently wields part of the Crescent Blade and is kind of a "chosen" of Eilistraee (who isn't currently alive). The artifact was shattered into three pieces and languished in different parts of the world. Several NPCs from the 3e era (specifically from my novels) are simply still alive by virtue of long lifetimes--some of them actually the PARENTS of the PCs. There are also several characters who have absolutely nothing to do with the previous era, because they're from a world that didn't connect to Toril (Abeir). Using the Planes provides a great lubricant and connector between the eras.
The game I'm playing in is a sequel to a 3e FR campaign (in which I did not play but the DM and a couple of the players did). NPCs from that campaign regularly crop up in various forms:
- One of our PCs (Tristan) is the son of one PC from the old game (Linn, who actually had the same player), who was a paladin of Mystra who was trapped inside Godsbane for a century, and his NPC wife, a Krynn silver dragon who's just still alive (and amassing a large hoard in Cormyr). We've encountered both of these characters, particularly Linn, who we freed from Godsbane, only to put him in a holy-avenger-like axe wielded by his son, only to have my character blast him free with shadowfire (ahem!). Currently rescuing Linn from Mask's Shadow Keep (see below). The PC (Tristan) is the last Chosen of Mystra, who is somehow able to wield Silverfire.
- Sunic, another of the PCs from that old campaign, is alive because he's an elf and has Mask's cloak, has become a recurring ally/villain that most of the party hates (my character Vayne has a complicated romantic relationship with Sunic).
- Ellerin, an archmage/Chosen of Mystra from the old campaign, existed as a primordial blot of arcane energy until we blew him up in the course of our adventures. This was a magical experiment gone wrong from the old game.
- Another old PC (a githzerai monk) may be the reincarnation of Gith. Ahem. More about that as the game progresses.
- One of our PCs (Ysabelle) seems to be a reincarnation/clone of Ruha (yes, that one), who was a significant NPC in the previous campaign and amassed great cosmic power. This is kind of a big deal in the game, as our ally is heir to that power, which is trapped in a staff of seven pieces. (Ahem!)
- My PC (Vayne) is a swordmage who learned her craft from Yldar Nathalan, a bladesinger from the 3e FR (and a minor character in my writing). Again, he's an elf, so he just happened to be alive still.
So you can see how the old world carries over into the new. We see the evolution of plots and the consequences of actions from the old game developed over 100 years into the new era. It's really a fascinating and fun tool for story-telling.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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How did you handle the timejump?
