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Razz
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Posted - 13 Mar 2012 :  23:24:50  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
From what I've read, in both editions of the deepspawn existing in D&D, the deepspawn are aberrations that eat Material Plane creatures and can spawn an exact copy of what they ate under their control. Interestingly, a dwarven war exploited these creatures to try and gain victory, as noted in GHotR.

So here's a few questions that have been bugging me about them:

1) When a deepspawn spawns a creature, I am assuming it can only spawn ONE of said creature. It cannot, for example, eat a 10th-level Barbarian Minotaur and spawn more than one of these, right?

2) Can a deepspawn spawn the same creature more than once after its death? For example, using the minotaur from the question above, say such a beast is killed. Can the deepspawn spawn another one, or is it only allowed one spawn per creature? Meaning, it would somehow have to eat the same creature again to spawn it again?

3) Apparently, nothing changes with the original creature (even alignment, it seems) other than regarding the deepspawn as a "parent" to be protected. I think I may have read that some spawns are know to freely wander, whether because the deepspawn let them go or because it was killed. Effectively, this is a twisted form of resurrection, I assume?

Lord Karsus
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  02:35:38  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Going by what is presented in AGHotR in regards to the Deepspawn War, I think they would be able to spawn a singular creature multiple times. The text says that certain Dwarves were spawned again and again and again, to the point that they've become gross parades of the original. I think this can be interpreted two ways:

A) The Deepspawn, after 'eating' the original, retains the ability to spawn the creature (so long as it doesn't 'eat' something else), but the more it spawns that creature, the more debased and less-than-exact the copy is to the original.

B) The Deepspawn has the ability to 'eat' a copy, and from that, produce a copy of the copy of the original. If need be, it could eat that spawn and produce a copy of a copy of the copy of the original, and so on.

-Of the two, I prefer Situation A. If they were only able to eat and spawn other creatures on a 1:1 basis (It eats the creature, produces a single spawn, and that's that), I don't think the sheer insanity of the Deepspawn Wars- individuals not knowing if they are copies, originals, copies of copies, and so on- would have been able to occur. I don't think the number of spawns would have been possible with a 1:1 ratio of creatures eaten to spawns.

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Razz
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  02:45:22  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's what I figured, as well. Their descriptions also state how these creatures are highly sought after to populate dungeons, or even as an infinite food source (spawning copies of the cattle it eats, for example).

So I had a feeling that it would be "Eat the original, can continously spawn that individual, but only 1 can be in existence at a time."

I have this complex underground the PCs are stuck in, and the ruler of the lower levels of this dungeon is a demon who has allied with a deepspawn, and this deepspawn is providing him his army. Whenever they lose minions, the deepspawn just spawns more of the same over time.
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  02:50:44  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Hey, if you want to change it, have the Deepspawn possess a mutation that allows it to not only produce multiple copies of the same thing, but produce multiple copies of the same thing at the same time. That'd certainly make it be percieved as a lot more dangerous.

-Dark/Deepspawn are pretty interesting, when you think about it. Do the creatures that it spawns have souls/spirits? Or are they almost like automatons, programmed to think that they're alive but in reality, they're not and are only 'programmed' to behave like a living thing? Or something in between- do the creatures somehow have the ability to stop a creature's soul/spirit from moving on and are able to break it into tiny pieces, which they then put in the spawned body to bring it to life? Or, something completely different?

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Jeremy Grenemyer
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  03:21:31  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
1 and 2) A Deepspawn can repeatedly produce a creature that it's consumed, up to the limits of water, minerals (including from consuming rocks, if necessary), very small amounts of certain plant life and blood from the creatures they eat, bones--living or dead creatures will do--and dung.

Deepspawn are capable of storing these raw materials for long periods of time. They don't need much light for spawning.

3) Copies are exact duplicates that don't degrade with each new spawn copy created. They spawn every 4d6 days, but if food is extremely plentiful (fresh battleground, for example) they can spawn at a rapid, once-per-three-days pace.

Do these copies have souls, though? That's a really good question for which I have no answer. My guess? Yes, they do.

Spawn are intensely loyal to their creator, but will be sent away by the Deepspawn. Deepspawn tend to keep 1d4 spawn around to use as lures for larger, more tasty prey; as its personal servants; or to eat if food is especially scarce.

Note: I'm no Deepspawn expert. I just happened to remember reading some information on them from Ed's article Thormil's Secret in Dungeon #194.


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The Sage
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  03:40:57  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's a few deepspawn tidbits [August 2005] from the Lady Hooded One that might help to answer these queries:-
quote:
A Deepspawn duplicates a particular orc (or human, or whatever) it has devoured: endless copies of exactly the same creature. They "come alive" knowing their bodies and how to use them (a human trained with a longsword could use it just as before death), but without prior memories (wizards don't have memorized spells, and human copy A meeting human copy B might say: "You look a lot like my reflection in yon pool," but WOULDN'T immediately say: "Hey, you're me!"

If that helps. That's the way Ed (who created Deepspawn) has always run them, anyway. We Knights ran into quite a few of them.

[...]

And so does Ed. He had a beholder colony (in a human castle) that had done just that, and kept deepspawn close-guarded in some of the lower chambers, spewing out endless weak young beholders to serve as guards, scouts ("want food? go hunt for it!") and ultimately as food for the more powerful senior beholders. The deepspawn had also eaten adventurers, and spewed THEM out as food (and the beholders used them as decoys, when later adventurers came exploring). Deadly.

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Jakuta Khan
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  08:55:37  Show Profile Send Jakuta Khan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting information here.

Would then be interesting what could ossibly make a deepspawn become an ally and do these "favors" ofr the ally.

Gold?
Food?
Servants?
........
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Razz
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  11:21:27  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So we know about the endless copies, but how sure are we on them existing simultaneously? If they do, that can get out of hand extremely easily.

For example, eating a 20th-level Barbarian and producing an army of 20th-level Barbarians means making the Tuigan Horde invasion look like a mere border skirmish.

So I assume the limit is one in existence at a time, at least for balance?
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  12:39:17  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-I don't know if classes are passed on. The 2e Monstrous Compendium says, "The 'spawn' have the natural attacks, magical abilities, alignment, and intelligence of their creators. Class abilities and other learned skills are not passed on to them". Kind of ambiguous wording. The first sentence makes it seem like they do (natural attacks, magical abilities) but the second sentence makes it seem like they don't (class abilities and learned skills).

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Artemas Entreri
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  12:47:52  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe a Deepspawn ate Manshoon at some point...

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Barastir
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Brazil
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  15:56:06  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-I don't know if classes are passed on. The 2e Monstrous Compendium says, "The 'spawn' have the natural attacks, magical abilities, alignment, and intelligence of their creators. Class abilities and other learned skills are not passed on to them". Kind of ambiguous wording. The first sentence makes it seem like they do (natural attacks, magical abilities) but the second sentence makes it seem like they don't (class abilities and learned skills).

I think it must refer to natural creature attacks and spell-like abilities, not to combat abilities or spells learned through experience.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

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(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 14 Mar 2012 15:57:01
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  16:41:26  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-I don't know if classes are passed on. The 2e Monstrous Compendium says, "The 'spawn' have the natural attacks, magical abilities, alignment, and intelligence of their creators. Class abilities and other learned skills are not passed on to them". Kind of ambiguous wording. The first sentence makes it seem like they do (natural attacks, magical abilities) but the second sentence makes it seem like they don't (class abilities and learned skills).

I think it must refer to natural creature attacks and spell-like abilities, not to combat abilities or spells learned through experience.


-Therein lies the confusion: Does a Barbarian's +whatever BAB factor into 'natural attacks' (everyone can punch things), or is it a 'class ability/learned skill', since it grows with level? In the sense that certain monsters have specific attacks that are defined as 'natural attacks', I would lean the same way also, but progressive BAB would certainly be a learned skill (as in something the character has experience in, not necessarily skill points).

-I guess it's left ambiguous so you can do whatever you want.

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Jeremy Grenemyer
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  16:55:12  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Monsters of Faerūn (3rd Edition D&D rules) notes the following: A spawn has the same type, natural attacks, magical abilities, alignment, and intelligence as the creature devoured by the deepspawn, and it retains learned abilities (class abilities, skills, and feats) as well as some dim memory of its former existence. A spawn grows in 1d4 days within the deepspawn’s body, then emerges fully formed and ready for immediate action.

Not sure if this clears things up or just muddies the water more, so make of it what you will.

I haven’t seen a 4th Edition game stats write-up for the Deepspawn, just what’s printed about them in Ed’s article.

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Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 14 Mar 2012 16:55:43
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Razz
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  21:01:53  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's from Monsters of Faerun, the first appearance of the Deepspawn in 3E.

But then they changed the Deepspawn in 3E to an updated version in Lost Empires of Faerun. I quote:

"Spawn (Ex): A deepspawn is usually encountered with one to three of its spawnā€”monsters of CR 4 to 6. Spawn are fanatically loyal to the deepspawn that spawned them and willingly ļ¬ght to the death to defend it. To determine what kind of spawn accompanies any given deepspawn, roll d% and consult Table 11ā€“1."

In the last column, a roll of 71-100, it notes it can have an "NPC Adventurer, Level 1d3+3"

It then goes on to say:

"A deepspawn can spawn only creatures identical to those it has physically consumed. Each spawn possesses even the learned abilities (such as class level, skills, and spells known) of the original but retains only dim memories of its former life. Only Large or smaller corporeal, living creatures native to the Material Plane can be spawned. After spawning, a deepspawn must wait 4d6 days before doing so again."

Again, for some reason, it doesn't state how many times this can be done on an individual basis. Can a deepspawn continously create the same spawn? If so, can they have them exist simultaneously or only one at a time?

From my understanding I got this:

---Deepspawns can spawn the same creature more than once, but not more than one at a time.---
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Jeremy Grenemyer
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  21:22:42  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think you might be outsmarting yourself here.

If the rules only indicate the frequency/rate at which the Deepspawn can produce a copy, then in my opinion there's no good reason to conclude they can't keep creating that copy, up to the limits of their spawn rate and available resources.

Not mentioning that a Deepspawn is capped at one copy in existence at a time seems to me like a pretty big thing not to mention over several iterations of the rules.

Yours is a good question to ask. My DM-Fu tells me Deepspawn can have multiple copies of the same creature (but I could very well be wrong; have to allow for that).

NOTE: I don’t have a copy of the adventure Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor with me, but I’m pretty sure there’s a Deepspawn in that adventure who controls multiple copies of the same unfortunate wizard. Might be worth checking if any of you out there have a copy at hand.

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Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 14 Mar 2012 22:12:55
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Razz
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  22:00:56  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Which is what worries me. What's to stop a Deepspawn from, say, spawning just multiple copies of 10th-level Barbarian trolls or, as you pointed out, manages to eat a 30th-level Wizard fed to it by some crazed conqueror and it just continuously churns out 30th-level Wizards it can control? Within a year, nations can be easily doomed.

It's basically a monster that can be extremely easy to abuse and there has to be some wonder why every villain in the Realms has yet to have their own deepspawns and just have proxy wars with each other using spawns.

If the limit of "1 individual spawn in existence at a time", now you have some balance.
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Icelander
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  22:17:39  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My view of Deepspawns is that they can utilise a lot more things than most living beings for energy and so they are good at converting 'inedible' stuff into 'edible' stuff. They are not 'free' energy, but since we aren't using rocks and minerals in our ecological cycle much, it seems free to most humans.

As for the retention of levels, I view combat abilities as part muscle memory, part learned patterns of thought and tactical expertise and part (at higher levels) some form of magic, divine or other supernatural gifts.

The kind of dim memories that Deepspawn clones retain would allow them to be formiddable combatants and pretty good at most active stuff they could do in life, but not as good as someone who had all their memories.

In D&D terms, I'd say that Deepspawn clones are lower level than the originals and that all levels above a certain point* represent some vested power other than simply learned skill and thus are not passed on at all.

*Pretty much when humans start to have distinctly supernatural abilities compared to anything on real Earth.

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Jeremy Grenemyer
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  22:22:54  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can see where you’re coming from. The potential is there.

I don’t know the full history of Deepspawn, but I’m aware they’ve been used in the dwarf wars; illithids and worse have tried to exterminate them from the Underdark and failed; at least one mage in Sembia transformed Deepspawn into living paintings that will spew forth copies of monsters on command; Clusterfang exists somewhere in the south and is a particularly accomplished Deespawn…but not much else on the extent of their use or abuse to rule the world.

From a DM point of view, I think you could easily institute a rule that Deepspawn require more food—as well as food of a better quality—to produce copies of creatures it has consumed, where those creatures have, say, fifteen or more hit dice.

For example, if a Deepspawn wants to create that 20th Level Barbarian you mentioned earlier, it needs to consume twenty whole, 1 HD creatures (dead or alive).

You can also rule that 1 to 5 HD creatures only count for 1/10 their value when a Deepspawn is trying to produce a copy of a creature with 15 or more hit dice. Creatures with 6-10 HD count for half their value and creatures with 10 or more HD count normally.

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Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 14 Mar 2012 22:36:32
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Razz
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Posted - 14 Mar 2012 :  23:01:50  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've read that excerpt on the Spawn Wars the dwarves had, and from the sound of the excerpt, it appears, though, the dwarf writer was facing multiple copies of himself in existence at the same time.

However, it doesn't state these copies all came from the same deepspawn. The fact he's facing several versions of himself means those spawns came from other deepspawns, who sent their copies (of the copy they probably ate from previous battles) to fight him off.

I have read deepspawn need several ingredients from the environment to create spawns, using it as sustenance so to speak, but that's easily available. With the deepspawn I am using in my current adventure, it has a lair in a large cavern filled with deep water. It feeds off the rocky walls, the water, and its own spawn bring it their dung and their dead for it to feed off of.

I have a variety of spawn it is using, under the rule only 1 can be in existence at a time. If I went under the assumption it can make as many of the same individual spawn in existence as it wants, heck, I would only have it spawn dozens of the advanced cave troll it has as a spawn as its army since it no longer really needs the rest (orcs, ogres, goblins, worgs, etc., small fry compared to the cave troll). Which would just be a TPK for my game
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Barastir
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Posted - 15 Mar 2012 :  10:47:13  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
Therein lies the confusion: Does a Barbarian's +whatever BAB factor into 'natural attacks' (everyone can punch things), or is it a 'class ability/learned skill', since it grows with level? In the sense that certain monsters have specific attacks that are defined as 'natural attacks', I would lean the same way also, but progressive BAB would certainly be a learned skill (as in something the character has experience in, not necessarily skill points).

-I guess it's left ambiguous so you can do whatever you want.


I think the way it was made on 2e a copy retained base abilities as a 1st level character, having the basic skills and memory fragments to be a member of his/her class, but no memory which would allow his/her improvement through the levels. Afterwards, the copies would be able to rise in level, and that would explain the cases in which you find several copies above 1st level. And that would be a nice limit, and would do copies of monsters and animals more dangerous.

EDIT: The way I understand it, they could make more copies - if there was available time (this is the other limiting factor). And about flawed copies, it's interesting, but I don't know how to reflect that in game terms (maybe changing ability scores for worse?). But I'd think about flaws arising in copies of copies, they would not be flawed if they all came from the original (through time). OR the first copies would be perfect and, over a long time, copies would begin having flaws (like after the 10th, 20th or 50th copy, or maybe with a "cumulative malfunction factor" of 5% per copy after the 10th, for example).

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fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

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(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 16 Mar 2012 12:27:56
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Zireael
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Posted - 15 Mar 2012 :  11:37:34  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, what a thread.

I love the idea of putting a deepspawn somewhere and making it spawn endless guardians or food.

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Bakra
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Posted - 15 Mar 2012 :  14:25:19  Show Profile Send Bakra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Razz

Which is what worries me. What's to stop a Deepspawn from, say, spawning just multiple copies of 10th-level Barbarian trolls or, as you pointed out, manages to eat a 30th-level Wizard fed to it by some crazed conqueror and it just continuously churns out 30th-level Wizards it can control? Within a year, nations can be easily doomed.

It's basically a monster that can be extremely easy to abuse and there has to be some wonder why every villain in the Realms has yet to have their own deepspawns and just have proxy wars with each other using spawns.

If the limit of "1 individual spawn in existence at a time", now you have some balance.



The magic overview d20 3.5 document which is in line with Lost Empires states “Death and Prepared Spell Retention: If a spellcaster dies, all prepared spells stored in his or her mind are wiped away.”


Let’s say the the 30th level mage knew only ten different 9th level spells recorded in his spellbook. The mage at the time of consumption only had 4 prepared for the day according to the chart listed in the PHB and using the rules as written from the epic level d20 SRD.

The clone pops out with no spells memorized. It does retain the knowledge that at one point it knew ten different 9th level spells which are recorded in a spell book it no longer owns. Also, it lacks the spell components to cast those spells. And going from the ‘dim memories’ bit, I would suggest making the clone intelligence nowhere close to the original. They possess enough intelligence and wisdom to protect the Deepspawn. A 30th level cloned mage with a 8 or 9 intelligence isn’t really a threat. That can be a reason for whole empires not being overrun.

A blink dog is more of a threat. A cloned blink dog can still ‘blink’ and retains dim memories of running in the forest…and marking a certain tree.

The final edit: I was originally wrong about the intelligence! But the Lost Empires list the organization as "solitary or brood 1 + 3-6". So it isn’t possible for it to have dozen super cave trolls or 30th level mages running around. Also, you can tie the deepspawn hitdice to the CR of the creature it is trying to clone. If the CR is higher than its total hd then it can’t make a perfect clone.

I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
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love to all,
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Edited by - Bakra on 15 Mar 2012 16:28:06
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Barastir
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Brazil
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Posted - 15 Mar 2012 :  14:57:32  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

Wow, what a thread.

I love the idea of putting a deepspawn somewhere and making it spawn endless guardians or food.


Actually, there is a hunting place in the North where a Deepspawn is used by wizards to provide plenty of game for hunters, that usually come from Waterdeep nobility. Noanar's Hold, I think, stands near to the High Forest. Well, the info comes from Volo's (and from The North boxed set, IIRC).

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 15 Mar 2012 :  15:12:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

Wow, what a thread.

I love the idea of putting a deepspawn somewhere and making it spawn endless guardians or food.



I seem to recall that one of the Wyrms of the North has a sheep-emitting deepspawn parked somewhere, so it's always got a ready supply of food.

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 15 Mar 2012 :  22:40:36  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

EDIT: The way I understand it, they could make more copies - if there was available time (this is the other limiting factor). And about flawed copies, it's interesting, but I don't know how to reflect that in game terms (maybe changing ability scores for worse?). But I'd think about flaws arising in copies of copies, they would not be flawed if they all came from the original (through time). OR the first copies would be perfect and, over a long time, copies would begin having flaws (like after the 10th, 20th or 50th copy, or maybe with a "cumulative malfunction factor" of 5% per copy after the 10th, for exxample).


-To me, that seems like something involving poetic license more than actual game reflection. Think about how long it takes (most of the time) for copies of copies of copies of copied documents to become so 'deteriorated' that it makes it hard to read. In D&D games, either you're probably not going to have copies of copies of copies to the point where the copy is somehow flawed and defective, as compared to the original, or (more likely) it's just easier to make nothing in regards to rules, and let the person who wants to have those copies defective figure out what they want to do.

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Ayrik
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Posted - 16 Mar 2012 :  00:06:46  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Realmslore has already established an example of endless copying: Manshoon and his clones. Even the oldest of these are likely copies of copies. Yet it remains debatable whether each copy has full integrity, being identical (at least at copy time) or if any are flawed and degenerated. More flawed, degenerated, and lacking integrity than is normal for Manshoon, that is.

In any event, it seems to me that

1) Flawed spawn would take many, many generations to appear. Unless the deepspawn itself is somehow flawed, or damaged, or simply insane? Can deepspawn copy other deepspawn? Can they introduce deliberate changes or errors in their spawn?

2) Flaws in living creatures tend to be disadvantageous. Most would likely be inviable and stillborn (stillspawned?). Most of those who could live would suffer from chronic health defects, organ failures, cancerous tumours. Even those who are healthy might have disadvantages or tradeoffs compared to their unflawed counterparts.
Then again, this is the Realms ... hybrids and puppets and freaks and mutants with magical X-Men powers are easily possible.

Can deepspawn reproduce undead or golems?

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 16 Mar 2012 00:19:51
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 16 Mar 2012 :  03:07:34  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Can deepspawn reproduce undead or golems?


-Undead, it is specifically mentioned that they can not reproduce them. Undead and "dual dimensional creatures" (Outsiders visiting the Material Plane, I would assume) are the two things that they are unable to.

-As for Golems, that's a lot harder. I could see valid arguments for and against Deepspawn being able to produce them. In the end, I think that I would say no, because they aren't technically alive. They're metal, wood, crystal, and whatever else made animate through magic. If a Deepspawn can't eat a Zombie and reproduce another Zombie because it's a dead body that is only being sustained through outside magic, then it shouldn't be able to eat a Golem and reproduce another Golem because it's an inanimate object that is only being sustained through outside magic.

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Edited by - Lord Karsus on 16 Mar 2012 03:08:47
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Fellfire
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Posted - 16 Mar 2012 :  03:27:10  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It could be possible that spawn, not being born, are possessed of an unusual and unstable metabolism and simply do not live very long. This would be one way to keep the number of spawn from developing into hordes.

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Barastir
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Posted - 16 Mar 2012 :  12:31:43  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
(...)

Can deepspawn copy other deepspawn? Can they introduce deliberate changes or errors in their spawn?

(...)


Very good questions. Maybe they should be sent to Ed Greenwood and THO in the Chamber of Sages.

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Razz
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Posted - 17 Mar 2012 :  03:02:20  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra The clone pops out with no spells memorized. It does retain the knowledge that at one point it knew ten different 9th level spells which are recorded in a spell book it no longer owns. Also, it lacks the spell components to cast those spells. And going from the ‘dim memories’ bit, I would suggest making the clone intelligence nowhere close to the original. They possess enough intelligence and wisdom to protect the Deepspawn. A 30th level cloned mage with a 8 or 9 intelligence isn’t really a threat. That can be a reason for whole empires not being overrun.



Your post would be right were it not for the fact that spawns retain all the original's abilities (including ability scores). Also, yeah, having an army of 30th-level wizards won't work since all of them are stuck sharing one spellbook.

So change that to an army of 30th-level Sorcerers ;)

quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
(...)

Can deepspawn copy other deepspawn? Can they introduce deliberate changes or errors in their spawn?

(...)


Very good questions. Maybe they should be sent to Ed Greenwood and THO in the Chamber of Sages.



According to 3E, they cannot. They can spawn only creatures of size Large or smaller. A deepspawn's size is Huge.

Granted, I assume a deepspawn can only spawn creatures of smaller than their own size. According to the advancement table in Lost Empires of Faerun, a deepspawn can get to Gargantuan size. So (and this is just a personal judgment call) it seems to be that a Gargantuan deepspawn can spawn Huge creatures or smaller; and, thus, other deepspawn of average Huge size.

Edited by - Razz on 17 Mar 2012 03:03:02
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 17 Mar 2012 :  16:52:34  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Makes sense; it'd be difficult (at best) to "give birth" to something bigger than it.

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