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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 11:01:37
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Hello...
Who or what kingdom or institution has the largest or biggest and so Most powerful army on the face of Fearun and Toril???
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 11:57:55
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Largest and most powerful are not equivalent in the real world and probably not in Toril either.
China or North Korea have huge armies, but China's military is far inferior to the US one, just as North Korea's one is overshadowed by the South Korean one. Technology makes a difference in our world, of course, but apart from the huge qualitative difference provided by technological superiority, the fact is that a professional army can defeat a horde of conscripts many times their size.
On Toril, magic replaces technology, but the same holds true. I will confine my answer to the period before the timejump because, well, nothing is the same after that, more or less.
I'd expect contenders for 'most powerful' to be Cormyr, with their professional military combined with organised War Wizards. It's not the most numerous army, being easily matched or surpassed by the number of people under arms in more populous lands, but it might be one of the best.
Calimshan used to have a powerful army and might again, but I get the feeling that since the glory days, their military readiness has sunk rather low. While it is rich and has a lot of impressive mages as well as accomplished warriors, few of those are serving in the military and if the army were forced to fight, it might not be all that disciplined. Decadent nobles commanding little respected and poorly paid peasants does not usually translate into an effective army.
The Tuigan took such massive losses in 1360 that they were reduced from a potential superpower and military powerhouse to a regional power. They still have a very nice military, but their lack of magic and ability to counter it means that they are crippled against most of the truly powerful.*
Both Ulgarth and each of the Shining Lands have large and powerful militaries. Ulgarth might have an army the size of Cormyr's, despite (I assume) a much smaller population. Both priests and wizards serve among this army, so it is fortunate that Ulgarth is governed by honourable nobles dedicated to goodly gods, and spends its military energy in warring on dangerous monsters and goblinoids.
Assuming a motivation to do so, the Shining Lands could field a massive army of professional warriors from among the Durpari mercenary chakas, the Estagund Maquar and the noble retinues, religious orders and merchant guards of Var. Their trading fleets could also carry them anywhere they wanted. Added to that, these nations have no fear of wizardry and a lot of practisioners who treat their Art like any other useful skill, which would translate into any ability to deploy an awful lot of it.
On the other hand, the Shining Lands have no motivation to make war on any of their trading partners, having discovered that bargaining pays better than warring. Their historical enemy, Ulgarth, is strong enough to deter attack, at any rate. If the Dambrathans imprudently tried anything, though, the Shining Lands might be a terrible foe for them.
Halruaa could be counted as a military powerhouse, not because they actually bother to keep a standing army worth speaking of, but because they are rich and magically powerful enough so that if pressed, they could probably become one in short order. In short, not a place to contemplate invading, but nor is it a place to fear. Halruuans have not shown any inclination for territorial conquest yet and don't seem likely to do so. And magic, while good for blasting enemy armies, is not good at taking and holding ground.
Thay, on the other hand, is a military powerhouse, in addition to being, probably, the richest country on Toril.** Their number of soldiers under arms is probably higher than any other polity, except possibly Shou Lung***, and they support it with truly mighty magic and magic that is meant for warlike purposes.
On the other hand, there is no such thing as a single 'Thayan army', only military forces that belong to individual zulkirs, tharchions, Red Wizards or other nobles. As such, the several (and shifting) factoins of Thayan politics ought probably have their military strength assessed seperately, as they are as likely to be fighting each other as outsiders.
One nation that is easy to overlook is Rashemen. While their tactics and equipment are somewhat backward compared to some other militaries, almost every Rashemi male is a warrior, wnich gives them a whole lot of men. And while it is better to command soldiers than warriors in a war, warriors are still infinitely prefered to peasants.
In addition to having a staggering number of men under arms, they also have the aid of nature spirits and the witches, whose combined magics are fully comparable with any one Thayan faction. Rashemen, then, is truly a hellish place to contemplate invading. This does not, however, translate into them being able to project power effectively. The nature spirits do not leave Rashemen and one of the drawbacks of having individualistic warriors in your forces instead of disciplined soldiers is that you cannot march them anywhere you choose.
As soon as the Rashemi left their own lands, they would starve, because their military tradition does not include the organisation and staff-work necessary to set up a logistics tail or even to forage efficiently for a whole army.
Final answer, it depends heavily on where the battle would be fought, what the strategic goals are and what allegiances are available to each side. Very few of the powers of Faerun and Toril as a whole are able to project force effectively, with their militaries being very limited in their operational range.
One 'dark horse' candidate might be Mulhorand. They are a large, rich nation and they are currently involved in a war (nothing better for the military than actual experience). While the total size of their army is not revealed, it is certainly larger than Cormyr's. The Mulhorandi are noted for their magical prowess, both arcane and divine, so their army is supported as few others by magic.
I expect that their flaws are that until the Time of Troubles, Mulhorandi society was extremely rigid and inflexible, which meant that while the Western nations developed useful military technologies and tactics, they stagnated. But Anhurites always tried to prevent this and I expect that the Unther campaign is serving as a pretty good school for them in bringing the army up to speed. Mulhorandi education and engineering has always been good, so they just need time to bring practice in line with theory.
Oh, and their terrible losses from the Time of Troubles and a limited recent naval war with Thay, not to mention the eruption of the Ship of Gods and the sahuagin mess, has pretty much sunk all their navy. Where they once had more than a hundred warships, they now have almost none. I'd assume that they are building as fast as they can, because controlling the seas is not only vital for subduing Unther, it is their best defence from Thay. Even so, it will take them more than a generation to have a navy that can match Thay****. Until then, they are very vulnerable to a blockade (they can feed themselves, but they can't feed Unther without buying in grain over the Inner Sea).
*Note that the Allegiance of the West met them with comparatively little magical strength, mostly due to few others than Azoun being all that worried by the invasion, and it still proved enough. Even if the Tuigan had won in Thesk, they would have found it very hard going if they had tried to continue, with nearly anyone they could have targeted having (compared to them), a lot of magical power.
**One of the most travelled trade ways between Kara-Tur and the west passes through there and the Thayans do more business in Kara-Tur than any other western nation. They grow a surplus of foodstuffs, so much so that much of the eastern Inner Sea relies on them for subsidence in years of lean harvest elsewhere (or times of warfare, for example), and you may rest assured that they do not do this for free. In addition, the booming business of the Thayan enclaves (not just magic items, but spices, slave-made textiles and finished goods) is bringing in a tide of gold every year. Thay is rich and getting richer.
***Who have a very large army, as well as a lot of magic-users to support it, but whose lack of actual military preparations, fighting experience and acumen was made clear by their weak response to the Tuigan invasion. Shou Lung could be militarily powerful and might yet become so, but throwing away Batu Minh Ho means that they will most likely thank the Celestial Bureaucracy for their deliverance and lapse back into a state of affairs where the military is underpaid, undertrained, under-respected and regarded only as a tool for keeping unruly peasants in line.
****Though most of the Thayan navy is innocently plying the Inner Sea as trading ships, the reality is that ships that most of these ships would only require the mounting of artillery to be transformed from traders into warhips. While Thay has no plans to do so, Mulhorand would be much more comfortable if Thay had no ability to threathen them, rather than no current intention. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2421 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 12:06:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Who or what kingdom or institution has the largest or biggest and so Most powerful army on the face of Fearun and Toril???
Depends on how you'll count armies. Standing regular army? Total mobilization potential? Mobilized once for a specific campaign? All sorts of forces from infantry to warmages, dragonriders and fleet alike?
Without looking into sourcebooks, my guess would be...
Of the first, probably top are Cormyr, Zhentil Keep before it fell, Calimshan and Baldur's Gate just before Crusade / Time of Troubles (Flaming Fist doubles as a standing army).
Of the last, maybe the Horde vs. Crusade (joint force).
The Kingdom of Many-Arrows may be at least in the top handful of either category, depending on how to look at it. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 13:27:50
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Ok... I think I need to elaborate...
I know that Evereska has some very powerful agents in its army. And so does They, but if we were to place Army vs Army on a neutral battlefeald of wide open planes, who would in the end privail.
What kind of numbers does these armies have and what level???
Hope someone can help!
Ohh... and by the way thanks! |
Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 11 Feb 2012 13:38:44 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 13:28:38
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| This question will probably have a thousand different answers, but i agree with Icelander. The largest army doesn't always win the battle. (in our world or fantasy settings) |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 13:48:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
China or North Korea have huge armies, but China's military is far inferior to the US one, just as North Korea's one is overshadowed by the South Korean one.
I don't know that China/the US is the best example. It's more akin to the US/Australia, or Canada (I'm sure there are other examples, but I'm most familiar with US, Canadian and Australian - particularly Australian - military efficiency/skill levels). Australian or Canadian troops (even down to the individual rank and file) tend to be much better than the equivalent American soldier, but the US has numbers on their side. It's essentially quality over quantity (and yes, Australia tends to repeatedly show up the US in wargames - no offence intended to US members of Candlekeep, but the average US soldier isn't exactly a highly trained individual, and the gap becomes extremely wide when considering the respective special forces of each country).
To give it a FR comparison and keep this on topic, I'd highlight it as the difference between, say, Khelben and the Order of Watchful Magists and Protectors. Khelben has the quality, but the Order by far has the quantity.
However, further holding the FR comparison, there are vast areas of military potency that are simply impossible to accurately quantify. How fast can Khelben deploy his magical power? How fast can the Order?
Or, to give it a more army-centric view, how fast can Cormyr deploy military forces compared to Thay, or Sembia? How good is their supply chain (armies live and die on this, incidentally)? How skilled are their commanders? How much area to they need to defend compared with Waterdeep, or Baldur's Gate?
Hoenstly, I don't think that published Realmslore goes deep enough into the intricacies of this sort of thing to give a clear answer, unless somebody would be willing to put the question to Ed (and even then, he's not a military man). |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 14:28:55
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It's amusing how people speculate on military prowess. Are you a General or super-whiz intelligence officer?
*how about we stay on the Realms-world topic? |
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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 11 Feb 2012 14:35:16 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 14:47:45
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
It's amusing how people speculate on military prowess. Are you a General or super-whiz intelligence officer?
*how about we stay on the Realms-world topic?
I was thinking in FR terms... just to clear that!!! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 14:55:49
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Depends on the "time."
Pre-Spellplague: Halruaa. Martial arts combined with powerful magic in every school of magic. Deadly combination. Plus all sorts of magical items, including those bomb-like devices Ed mentioned not too long ago.
Post-Spellplague: Thay. Before Szass Tam became its sole sovereign, armies were divided. Each zulkir had his own. Now, the entire realm is unified under one banner---the living and dead alike report to Szass Tam and him alone. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 14:57:13
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To perhaps simplify things:
2400 Level 12 paladins (Heavy Cavalry)
1200 Level 12 Fighters (light Cavalry)
2400 Level 12 Fighters (heavy Infantry)
1200 Level 6 Fighters (Light Infantry)
300 Level 20 War wizards
300 Level 25 Paladins (Ultra Heavy Infantry)
120 Level 15 Griffon Riders (Airborne)
120 Level 16 Fighter/rogue (Ranger)
100.000 Level 4 fighter
Now: Would this army be able to, in your humble opinions, to conquer Fearun???
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 15:28:22
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Any army, however powerful, is useless without competent leaders. With no one to see the bigger picture and come up with feasible strategies, the army would be running blind. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 15:32:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Any army, however powerful, is useless without competent leaders. With no one to see the bigger picture and come up with feasible strategies, the army would be running blind.
True... In the above army, in is intentional that very competent leaders and officers are in charge. It is also intended to be well supplied and have a good logistics battalion as well!!!
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Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 11 Feb 2012 15:34:39 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 15:39:06
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Eh, you do know that this is not enough information, right?
100,000 4th level Fighters could be a squabbling horde or an organised army. In fact, when it comes to large-scale warfare, their level of discipline and the quality of the logistics staff is a lot more important than their individual fighting skill, which is what level represents.
In any event, Faerun is too large for just over 100,000 people to conquer it. Even if no single nation could stand against them, they'd have to leave a garrison at each city they took. Soon enough, you'd have no troops left.
And that's assuming that you could even move an army this size. If it just came into existence somewhere in Faerun and these were the only people, i.e. every single one of your army is a fighting soldier, with no non-combatants, I guess your army would be doomed to death by starvation. They'd eat up all the supplies around (which they'd commandeer at swordpoint) and then die while trying to get somewhere else, with the roads blocked by hungry fighting men all trying to use them at the same time.
For an army to conquer huge swathes of territory, it doesn't just need cavalry, infantry, scouts and artillery (or wizards). It needs quartermasters, mule-drivers, clerks and what amounts to traffic cops, to make it possible for thousands of men to march on roads, cross rivers, etc.
Winning battles doesn't let you conquer land. At most, assuming that people are obliging enough to offer you battle again and again, it may allow you to leave the land desolate and empty. On the other hand, unless you are prepared (and able*) to genocide all the other people in the world, you would still only hold that tiny part of it where your army was at each time.
*Given a landmass half again the the size of Eurasia to hide in, you cannot even imagine how difficult it would be to find all the other people in the world. And given that the more you spread out, the better your odds of being ambushed are, it would take several human livetimes just to perform the first walkthrough of all Faerun with this army. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 15:54:37
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What im trying to post is a well organized, well diciplined army led by above level 20 level officer. And ofc it goes without saying that there are qeartermasters, cooks, clerics doctors, engineers and what ever kind of function this army would need. And the 100k lvl 4 figthers are in this case spear, shortsword and archers.
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 16:00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
What im trying to post is a well organized, well diciplined army led by above level 20 level officer. And ofc it goes without saying that there are qeartermasters, cooks, clerics doctors, engineers and what ever kind of function this army would need. And the 100k lvl 4 figthers are in this case spear, shortsword and archers.
Okay.
Then you just need a few million more troops. These don't need to be elite front-line soldiers, necessarily, since they'd be for leaving garrisons along the way.
Faerun is big. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 16:28:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
It's amusing how people speculate on military prowess. Are you a General or super-whiz intelligence officer?
*how about we stay on the Realms-world topic?
I was thinking in FR terms... just to clear that!!!
I know, i wasn't referring to your post  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 16:31:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
To perhaps simplify things:
2400 Level 12 paladins (Heavy Cavalry)
1200 Level 12 Fighters (light Cavalry)
2400 Level 12 Fighters (heavy Infantry)
1200 Level 6 Fighters (Light Infantry)
300 Level 20 War wizards
300 Level 25 Paladins (Ultra Heavy Infantry)
120 Level 15 Griffon Riders (Airborne)
120 Level 16 Fighter/rogue (Ranger)
100.000 Level 4 fighter
Now: Would this army be able to, in your humble opinions, to conquer Fearun???
I don't think this army would stand a chance at conquering Faerun. Even if it were able to conquer a few areas this army would need to leave troops behind at each "stop" in order to maintain control. After awhile it would dwindle down to nothing. You would need a much larger force to accomplish a worldwide campaign.
The whole idea of conquering the world has proven impossible time and time again in our own world...even as recently as the 1940's. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 16:36:34
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You will need many more troops, just remember there are millions of Drow.
That is if the army is used for force against all nations and creatures. Such a force, however might make good progress to a world government if proper alliances are made. This would mean power sharing, however if deals made well in time the power of allies could be reduced to the same level of those conquered. A long time line.
Oh you might consider recruiting at least a few Clerics and Scouts (Thieves) as part of your army.
Clerics for minor things like raise from death.
Thieves for raids or intel, part of special forces. |
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"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 16:44:54
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| I agree with everything Icelander said, but I also want to add that another thing that hampered the Tuigan was their lack of anything resembling combined arms. Most fantasy armies are going to include infantry, cavalry, artillery, and plenty of magic, both divine and arcane. The Tuigan had lots and lots of cavalry, a little magic, and nothing else. What little magic they did have was used effectively... But given a well-fortified and well-stocked city to besiege, the Tuigan would have had to rely on magic to do anything at all to it. And if the defenders had sufficient magical support and food, they'd be able to simply wait out the Tuigan. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 16:51:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
China or North Korea have huge armies, but China's military is far inferior to the US one, just as North Korea's one is overshadowed by the South Korean one.
I don't know that China/the US is the best example. It's more akin to the US/Australia, or Canada (I'm sure there are other examples, but I'm most familiar with US, Canadian and Australian - particularly Australian - military efficiency/skill levels). Australian or Canadian troops (even down to the individual rank and file) tend to be much better than the equivalent American soldier, but the US has numbers on their side. It's essentially quality over quantity (and yes, Australia tends to repeatedly show up the US in wargames - no offence intended to US members of Candlekeep, but the average US soldier isn't exactly a highly trained individual, and the gap becomes extremely wide when considering the respective special forces of each country).
To give it a FR comparison and keep this on topic, I'd highlight it as the difference between, say, Khelben and the Order of Watchful Magists and Protectors. Khelben has the quality, but the Order by far has the quantity.
However, further holding the FR comparison, there are vast areas of military potency that are simply impossible to accurately quantify. How fast can Khelben deploy his magical power? How fast can the Order?
Or, to give it a more army-centric view, how fast can Cormyr deploy military forces compared to Thay, or Sembia? How good is their supply chain (armies live and die on this, incidentally)? How skilled are their commanders? How much area to they need to defend compared with Waterdeep, or Baldur's Gate?
Hoenstly, I don't think that published Realmslore goes deep enough into the intricacies of this sort of thing to give a clear answer, unless somebody would be willing to put the question to Ed (and even then, he's not a military man).
It is clear you have no military experience.
I have served overseas with many Australians. Fine soldiers all. I have worked on Canadian Bases, fine soldiers all. For you to make that remark about American Soldiers proves you know absolutely nothing about the military, or the training that Americans, Canadians, and Australians endure.
Think before you speak please.
I love the internet sometimes.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 17:03:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Clerics for minor things like raise from death.
Thieves for raids or intel, part of special forces.
Well thats what the rangers are for. Clerics yes, but since there are a lot of paladins in the army I thought that might be enough of healing power!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 18:23:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Clerics for minor things like raise from death.
Thieves for raids or intel, part of special forces.
Well thats what the rangers are for. Clerics yes, but since there are a lot of paladins in the army I thought that might be enough of healing power!
You don't want your healers to also be a significant part of your offensive capability. Let the paladins swing swords and use their powers to benefit themselves and the officers, let the clerics deal with the rank-and-file. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 19:29:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
China or North Korea have huge armies, but China's military is far inferior to the US one, just as North Korea's one is overshadowed by the South Korean one.
I don't know that China/the US is the best example. It's more akin to the US/Australia, or Canada (I'm sure there are other examples, but I'm most familiar with US, Canadian and Australian - particularly Australian - military efficiency/skill levels). Australian or Canadian troops (even down to the individual rank and file) tend to be much better than the equivalent American soldier, but the US has numbers on their side. It's essentially quality over quantity (and yes, Australia tends to repeatedly show up the US in wargames - no offence intended to US members of Candlekeep, but the average US soldier isn't exactly a highly trained individual, and the gap becomes extremely wide when considering the respective special forces of each country).
To give it a FR comparison and keep this on topic, I'd highlight it as the difference between, say, Khelben and the Order of Watchful Magists and Protectors. Khelben has the quality, but the Order by far has the quantity.
However, further holding the FR comparison, there are vast areas of military potency that are simply impossible to accurately quantify. How fast can Khelben deploy his magical power? How fast can the Order?
Or, to give it a more army-centric view, how fast can Cormyr deploy military forces compared to Thay, or Sembia? How good is their supply chain (armies live and die on this, incidentally)? How skilled are their commanders? How much area to they need to defend compared with Waterdeep, or Baldur's Gate?
Hoenstly, I don't think that published Realmslore goes deep enough into the intricacies of this sort of thing to give a clear answer, unless somebody would be willing to put the question to Ed (and even then, he's not a military man).
It is clear you have no military experience.
I have served overseas with many Australians. Fine soldiers all. I have worked on Canadian Bases, fine soldiers all. For you to make that remark about American Soldiers proves you know absolutely nothing about the military, or the training that Americans, Canadians, and Australians endure.
Think before you speak please.
I love the internet sometimes.
Amen! Thank you for your service Mournblade! |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 19:31:47
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| Another thing to consider is that if an army were to undertake the task of conquering Faerun it would need to be able to fight in all types of terrain and weather conditions; easier said than done. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 20:15:35
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So... if I ad a 300 level 20 clerics???
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 20:39:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
So... if I ad a 300 level 20 clerics???
That would certainly help *Smiles* In almost any large battle will be at least 300 killed.
You are still looking at millions to defeat. Without good tactics the army is too small and weak to conquer the world. The dragons would oppose, the trolls would oppose and so on down a long list that even if taking a battle field defeat would never be loyal, thus always a danger. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 21:03:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
So... if I ad a 300 level 20 clerics???
Still not enough. Did you not see the prior comments on garrisoning everything?
Besides, give me 300 level 20 assassins, and your clerics and mages are dead. Then a handful of dragons comes by and takes care of the rest of the army.
Or just have a couple hundred thousand orcs, backed up by giants, attack your army. You may have a lot of high-level folks in your army, but as has been observed in the real world: quantity is its own quality.
I'm not sure that you can propose any realistically-sized force that would be able to conquer all of Faerūn. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 21:23:04
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| Underspires beneath Turmish is a duergar nation. They supposedly have over 40,000 duergar warriors and 80,000 slave per dragon 267. Llurth Dreier, a drow city under the Shaar, prior to its supposed destruction had 200,000 drow warriors and over 500,000 slaves per Polyhedron 140. Those are the largest numbers I've seen, surface or Underdark aside from references to orc hordes or battles of the past and whatnot. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 22:16:05
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OK...
Hmm... Well I have to gun up my army then!
But if I were to get some more units, what would I need??? I not just a higher number of troops what class or build would be good besides what Ive already stated??? |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 22:52:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
OK...
Hmm... Well I have to gun up my army then!
But if I were to get some more units, what would I need??? I not just a higher number of troops what class or build would be good besides what Ive already stated???
Assuming a force like this could actually conquer Faerun, you would then need every type of special force you could imagine, examples might include:
-Brigades of Boulder Hurling Giants
-A flight of dragons
-Elite legions of elven archers
-Thousands of dwarven war machine experts
etc... |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 23:43:33
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| You should be able to enlist or conscript troops of conquered nations. Go for Genghis Khan style of conquest. Offer cities the option to surrender and pay tribute. Those that refuse get razed to the ground, able bodied men conscripted as cannon fodder to lead the next attack, children and women enslaved and the rest of the populace put to the sword, with the exception of a terrified few you let escape to spread tales of the horror (psychological warfare). Of course with magic, I'd probably animate the dead from the battlefield(great revenance spell anyone?) and have them lead the attack on the next settlement followed by the living cannon fodder then the true soldiers. |
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Armed Forces
