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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 00:36:00
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What this Is
- a place to list answers that are not forthcoming.
- "that noisy table in the corner" where ideas crop up in conversation, which should not be imagined - for example Wooly's reference to Piergeiron's prior career as an escort
- periodic entertainment, frustration, and/or anticipation of forthcoming Realmslore
What this is Not
- an effort to dig up or specify every topic which conceivably might be squelched by anyone's NDA
- an effort to circumvent an NDA or wheedle answers out of designers/authors who may drop in
Feel free to drop a note here when questions to one of the designers run into a shiny NDA wall. It's not trying to be any sort of weird requirement. Just something that says "hey, you're probably not going to find any Realmslore about these subjects... just so ya know." Also a place where I can plot my revenge on Wooly for sullying Piergeiron's admittedly too-somber reputation.
- The death of Aencar the Mantled King.
- Specifics on the link between the Obarskyrs and the land of Cormyr
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Edited by - xaeyruudh on 15 Feb 2012 06:32:26
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 00:50:48
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| I do not believe any kept count, it clearly is over 1,000 more likely near if not exceeding 10,000. Every story line that might merit a sequel is NDA, powers of some NPCs are NDA, the maps in part are NDA. Even some power sources are NDA. *shrugs* Might be 20,000 NDAs in place. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 00:54:00
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I think that would be just as "possible" as listing everything on my famed "To-Do" lists. 
In other words, I fully expect that while some of the more obvious past NDA's offered by writers and/or designers over the years here at Candlekeep, might be easy to find... it's the difficult and often unexpected NDA's, that lie buried in hundreds of discussions scrolls, that would prove frustratingly problematic to compile.
There *are* that many of them.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 01:06:04
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think that would be just as "possible" as listing everything on my famed "To-Do" lists.
With all respect I believe that the NDA list far exceeds you to do list. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 01:29:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Might be 20,000 NDAs in place.
I reckon 'tis more than that. My questions alone in Ed's thread which received an NDA reply are a lot. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 02:14:58
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I knew there was a ton of them, but I didn't know it was that much. It would cost a crazy amount of money just to go through each one of them to evaluate which could be removed. It could cost even more for the legal process that would follow. Cheapest thing you can do with them is to let them rot in a corner, sadly.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 02:56:40
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I didn't really plan on going back through past references. I was just thinking of a thread in which we could put a note (if/when we choose to), going forward. something like:
- the death of Aencar the Mantled King, including the name of the dracolich which slew him.
- this
- that
- the other thing
whoever wants to can contribute to the list or debunk existing items as new info becomes available.
it's not a necessary thing... just another place to check for whether lore exists, or can exist, on a particular subject. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 03:28:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I knew there was a ton of them, but I didn't know it was that much. It would cost a crazy amount of money just to go through each one of them to evaluate which could be removed. It could cost even more for the legal process that would follow. Cheapest thing you can do with them is to let them rot in a corner, sadly.
Yes there are many, THO has indicated that Ed has requested some to be lifted from TSR days. Maybe one or two released, not sure that many. Any potential revenue steam tends not to be released. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 03:55:28
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| Given the many changes in personnel, ownership, and direction, over the years, I'm not sure that even WotC knows what all NDAs are out there. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 04:46:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Given the many changes in personnel, ownership, and direction, over the years, I'm not sure that even WotC knows what all NDAs are out there.
I'm wondering whether Wizards might indeed have NDAs for their number of current NDAs. 
It's just easier that way. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 05:26:09
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| Well, I can tell you that the specific nature of the link between Cormyr's rulers and the land they preside over is NDA. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 06:26:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Well, I can tell you that the specific nature of the link between Cormyr's rulers and the land they preside over is NDA.
I'm not sure what this means. What link?
I don't mean to be a smartass... probably closer to dumbass.  |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 16:11:43
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Well, there's been mention in a few different Cormyr books about how the land of Cormry shares a mystical link with its people/its rulers.
In the past I've asked Ed about this and he presented me (with the aid of the ever helpful THO, of course) a shiny NDA.
It is never fun to not receive what one asks for, but it helps considerably that the denial--if we can call it that--be delivered by someone so courteous and no doubt lovely. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 17:08:58
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NDA? Its blatantly spelled-out in the Cormyr novel.
Humans are allowed in 'the forest kingdom' so long as an Obarskyr rules.
The thing that is 'NDA' is precisely WHAT would happen if an Obarskyr did not rule. I'm of the opinion that it is some High-Magic 'curse' laid down by the Elves of old - Elves like massacring tens of thousands of people. It's sort of their hobby.
In the words of Ed Greenwood (from the annotated Elminster), "Elves ARE monsters."  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Feb 2012 21:03:55 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 17:14:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
NDA? Its blatantly spelled-out in the Cormyr novel.
"Blatant?"
Markus, you make it sound so severe.
While the novel Cormyr tells a good story about the conditions by which men came to rule in the Forest Kingdom, it doesn't talk about the extent, nature and particulars of the "mystical connection" between the people, the rulers and the land. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 17:15:32
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It might help to bear in mind that Non-Disclosure Agreements are broad, overarching contracts that people with access to pre-release information (freelance designers, editors, and artists, as well as consultants and in-house folks) have to sign before they ever see that information. Once we sign an NDA, it doesn't apply to a particular project, product, game world, or conversation; it covers all non-published information one might see, and any information that would reasonably be related to any product, project, or conversation that hasn't been released to the public.
It should be noted that NDAs persist even if a product is postponed or canceled, because all of the communication and development prior to that point is still considered confidential.
Ed, in particular, is in the unique situation of being consulted on a nearly constant basis on just about everything. When that happens, a little NDA flag gets attached to a topic--whether it be Larloch, or the fate of the Seven Sisters, or the development of bulette-mounted artillery in sunken Lantan. Until Ed is told that the confidentiality surrounding a particular topic has been lifted (or the product in question is published), he's legally bound to remain quiet about it. Even if Bullets of the Bulettes never sees print, Ed can't talk about what might have gone into it, or share anything that was in the notes he turned over to WotC when they were getting ready to do the book.
The Realms have been in print as a TSR/WotC-owned property for a quarter century. That's a lot of confidential conversations, a lot of planned-but-never-published products, and a whole lot of notes Ed turned over that never made print. If something's in Ed's turned-over notes (say, for instance, the rank insignia for Purple Dragons), it's under firm lock-and-key NDA, and Ed can't spill those particular beans without either permission from WotC or sneaking it into another product or article.
Of course, none of this provides any insight into what topics might be buried under NDA, or how many, or when they might emerge. It should, however, give some idea as to why so many of the questions sent Ed's way get an answer of "NDA." |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 18:00:40
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The short answer is (I think) Anything not yet published is a NDA!!! |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 18:03:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
The short answer is (I think) Anything not yet published is a NDA!!!
Not exactly. But it's closer to the truth than any of us would like, to be sure. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 21:10:43
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The problem is that there is much inter-connectivity in the Realms, that almost anything you want to talk about is touched by one NDA or another, in some small fashion.
Elminster, for example, is probably connected to several hundred.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
NDA? Its blatantly spelled-out in the Cormyr novel.
"Blatant?"
Markus, you make it sound so severe.
While the novel Cormyr tells a good story about the conditions by which men came to rule in the Forest Kingdom, it doesn't talk about the extent, nature and particulars of the "mystical connection" between the people, the rulers and the land.
After re-reading what I wrote, I'd have to agree (I was shooting for 'obvious', but it does sound like I was being 'accusational'.)
It might be connected to the fact that the Tunlands looks like a large crater (more-so on early maps), or that the Battle of God's Theater was fought there (another ancient mystery yet to be revealed), or something to do whats 'buried' beneath Cormyr, etc, etc...
Cormyr is so very interesting, once you start pealing back the layers. I remember once believing it to be boring myself... ah, to be naive again.
And then there is Filfaril.....  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Feb 2012 21:11:23 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 21:33:41
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| I'll just echo what Brian said. We sign a single NDA. WotC doesn't track individual topics covered by NDA. It's up to each designer to use common sense as to what information they reveal about the projects they're working on. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 23:28:00
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Well... that's unhelpful. Somebody should arrange things to better fit my whim.
Also, I need a good smiley for sarcasm. 
Then you also have to keep track of what all other designers/authors are working on too? Sounds like a lot of paperwork. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2012 : 02:09:18
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Well... that's unhelpful. Somebody should arrange things to better fit my whim.
Also, I need a good smiley for sarcasm.
Then you also have to keep track of what all other designers/authors are working on too? Sounds like a lot of paperwork.
I agree... if they'd just make all the lore available to everybody, it would be so much easier for authors to correlate without inconsistency, and for gamers (specifically DMs) to find the lore they need. At least, that's how I see it in my Internet-influenced information-socialist worldview... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2012 : 04:11:08
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It's tedious to compile a full list of NDAs, since they change from time to time. And frankly, I don't think I'd ever want to do it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2012 : 05:12:45
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There's also the fact that we likely haven't even heard of all of the NDAs out there... If no one thinks to ask about Peirgeiron's past as a nightclub escort, for example, then we don't know about the NDA there.
Oh, you didn't know that bit of Realmslore? That's because of the NDA! (Or maybe because I just made it up )
Similarly, we might have phrased a question in such a way that it seems like an NDA covers the entire question, when it's actually only part of the question. Asking "Did Bahb the Fighter find the legendary sword Slizemup and use it to kill the dragon Smogwanabi?" may yeild an NDA, but that NDA may only refer to the fate of Smogwanabi, and not Bahb and Slizemup, or it may refer to planned lore about Bahb and Slizemup but not Smogwanabi, or any other combination there. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2012 : 06:05:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If no one thinks to ask about Peirgeiron's past as a nightclub escort, for example, then we don't know about the NDA there.
Mental Image: meeting of the Lords of Waterdeep. Khelben makes a suggestion. Piergeiron responds: "whatever you say, sugar."
OW!
Wooly broke my brain.
Agreed, though, that it's important for questions to be as specific as possible, to avoid hitting unnecessary walls. |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 15 Feb 2012 06:42:51 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2012 : 23:55:16
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Even if it's very specific, it can still hit the "wall."
"Will Rivalen die at the end of Cycle of Night trilogy? Will Mask return? Does Melegaunt still lives?" These are specific questions, but still, NDA. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 00:30:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Even if it's very specific, it can still hit the "wall."
"Will Rivalen die at the end of Cycle of Night trilogy? Will Mask return? Does Melegaunt still lives?" These are specific questions, but still, NDA.
'Tis true. But as I was pointing out, if a question isn't phrased correctly, it can lead to the assumption that an NDA is broader in scope than it actually is. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 Feb 2012 00:31:27 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2012 : 02:50:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Even if it's very specific, it can still hit the "wall."
"Will Rivalen die at the end of Cycle of Night trilogy? Will Mask return? Does Melegaunt still lives?" These are specific questions, but still, NDA.
'Tis true. But as I was pointing out, if a question isn't phrased correctly, it can lead to the assumption that an NDA is broader in scope than it actually is.
True... and often, vague questions are easier to answer, as Wooly demonstrates in the bit quoted below... although you might not get the specific answer you're looking for, if the specific thing you're inquiring about is specifically covered by NDA, and you might get an answer that has nothing to do with your intended question. Still, some useful lore is accidentally discovered that way; I know this from experience.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Similarly, we might have phrased a question in such a way that it seems like an NDA covers the entire question, when it's actually only part of the question. Asking "Did Bahb the Fighter find the legendary sword Slizemup and use it to kill the dragon Smogwanabi?" may yeild an NDA, but that NDA may only refer to the fate of Smogwanabi, and not Bahb and Slizemup, or it may refer to planned lore about Bahb and Slizemup but not Smogwanabi, or any other combination there.
Therefore, you have better odds of getting some information if you ask about each creature/item separately... and lore as specific as that requested in Wooly's example will almost always be answered with "No" or "NDA"... and "NDA" won't always mean "Yes, but I can't tell you that." |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 17 Feb 2012 02:55:19 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2012 : 02:56:16
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I don't like asking vague questions because the answers, albeit they're some useful bits of lore, tend to be something I don't really care for. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 17 Feb 2012 02:57:14 |
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NDA Pile!
