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Light
Learned Scribe
Australia
233 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 16:24:51
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I have never read any books (novels/short stories) on or featuring Manshoon so I'm curious, when he dies and his soul is transferred to his latest created/updated stasis clone but...does it retain Manshoon's memory of his time up until, and of, his death. For example: the times Elminster has killed him, would he remember that Elminster had killed him?
EDIT: Also, once I read somewhere that Manshoon taught his Stasis Clone spell to somebody. Anyone know who it was or am I mistaken and he never told anyone.
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"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga) |
Edited by - Light on 02 Feb 2012 16:29:42
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1291 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 16:52:33
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From the villain's lorebook IIRC (i'm at work so don't have my copy) the Stasis Clone is updated everytime he makes contact with it, and he retains all his memories/levels from that time he touched it last. If he awakes in a clone from a long time ago that hasn't been updated, he will lose levels and memories. They made a point to mention that Manshoon should be much higher level than he is but the deaths reverting him back to old clones that aren't higher level have kept it lower.
This is 2nd edition stuff, I'm not sure the 3rd edition rules. And also am referring from memory. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 16:53:20
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quote:
Lords of Darkness (3e), page 189
Stasis Clone
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
As clone, except that if the original individual is still alive, the cloned body falls immediately into stasis and does not rot. If the original individual later dies, the soul transfers to the stasis clone, which leaves stasis and immediately begins to function as per the normal clone spell.
If multiple stasis clones exist for the same original creature when it is slain, the soul goes into the most recently created stasis clone.
quote:
d20 SRD (SpellsC.rtf), pages 6-7
Clone
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One clone
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell makes an inert duplicate of a creature. If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone, creating a replacement (provided that the soul is free and willing to return). The original’s physical remains, should they still exist, become inert and cannot thereafter be restored to life. If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.
To create the duplicate, you must have a piece of flesh (not hair, nails, scales, or the like) with a volume of at least 1 cubic inch that was taken from the original creature’s living body. The piece of flesh need not be fresh, but it must be kept from rotting. Once the spell is cast, the duplicate must be grown in a laboratory for 2d4 months.
When the clone is completed, the original’s soul enters it immediately, if that creature is already dead. The clone is physically identical with the original and possesses the same personality and memories as the original. In other respects, treat the clone as if it were the original character raised from the dead, including the loss of one level or 2 points of Constitution (if the original was a 1st-level character). If this Constitution adjustment would give the clone a Constitution score of 0, the spell fails. If the original creature has lost levels since the flesh sample was taken and died at a lower level than the clone would otherwise be, the clone is one level below the level at which the original died.
The spell duplicates only the original’s body and mind, not its equipment.
A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh, which rots if not preserved.
Material Component: The piece of flesh and various laboratory supplies (cost 1,000 gp).
Focus: Special laboratory equipment (cost 500 gp).
According to the text of the clone spell, it would seem as though the character would retain all of his memories leading up to his/her death.
I do not know any of the lore pertaining to his teaching the spell to anyone else. Hopefully, someone else will. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 16:55:45
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They are like computer backups - they will only know whatever it is Manshoon knew when they were created, unless he updates them (which he apparently didn't bother to do all that much).
Question: If you had this spell, and had a fairly young clone, why wouldn't you just update it and kill yourself? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 17:00:32
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| The original description of Manshoon's stasis clone spell was in the 2E Ruins of Zhentil Keep box set. It basically works the same as the original clone spell, except that the clone is inert, held in stasis, until the caster's death; at which time the clone becomes active. The caster can "update" the clone with all his memories and experience by touching it and performing a simple ritual. Manshoon had many, many such clones stashed away in secret caches, and because he himself was a clone activated after his death he really had no idea how many such clones were hidden away, or how recently each had been "updated" ... he apparently devised a strategy of suicide-attack against impossible targets (like Elminster) to "refresh" himself whenever aging or injured, and the box set hints this is one reason why Manshoon never seemed to advance in levels. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 17:05:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Lords of Darkness (3e), page 189
Stasis Clone
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
As clone, except that if the original individual is still alive, the cloned body falls immediately into stasis and does not rot. If the original individual later dies, the soul transfers to the stasis clone, which leaves stasis and immediately begins to function as per the normal clone spell.
If multiple stasis clones exist for the same original creature when it is slain, the soul goes into the most recently created stasis clone.
quote:
d20 SRD (SpellsC.rtf), pages 6-7
Clone
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One clone
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell makes an inert duplicate of a creature. If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone, creating a replacement (provided that the soul is free and willing to return). The original’s physical remains, should they still exist, become inert and cannot thereafter be restored to life. If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.
To create the duplicate, you must have a piece of flesh (not hair, nails, scales, or the like) with a volume of at least 1 cubic inch that was taken from the original creature’s living body. The piece of flesh need not be fresh, but it must be kept from rotting. Once the spell is cast, the duplicate must be grown in a laboratory for 2d4 months.
When the clone is completed, the original’s soul enters it immediately, if that creature is already dead. The clone is physically identical with the original and possesses the same personality and memories as the original. In other respects, treat the clone as if it were the original character raised from the dead, including the loss of one level or 2 points of Constitution (if the original was a 1st-level character). If this Constitution adjustment would give the clone a Constitution score of 0, the spell fails. If the original creature has lost levels since the flesh sample was taken and died at a lower level than the clone would otherwise be, the clone is one level below the level at which the original died.
The spell duplicates only the original’s body and mind, not its equipment.
A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh, which rots if not preserved.
Material Component: The piece of flesh and various laboratory supplies (cost 1,000 gp).
Focus: Special laboratory equipment (cost 500 gp).
According to the text of the clone spell, it would seem as though the character would retain all of his memories leading up to his/her death.
I do not know any of the lore pertaining to his teaching the spell to anyone else. Hopefully, someone else will.
Stasis Clone is separate from Clone in 3e terms. I know it got a writeup, I'm not quite sure where. I'll look it up in an hour. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1291 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 17:25:44
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The only people I can see him sharing it with are Sememmom or Hesperdan? I don't remember reading he shared it with anyone and any apprentices who discovered the spell he killed mercilessly.
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Tamsar
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
141 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 17:54:55
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Here's the goodies on Stasis Clone.
9th Level
Stasis Clone
(Alteration, Necromancy)
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 2 turns
Area of Effect: Special
Saving Throw: None
This spell creates a duplicate of a human, demihuman,
or humanoid creature from any scrap of bone, hair, tissue,
or at least six drops of blood from that being. If the
caster is not the being to be duplicated, that living creature
must touch the duplicate body, as it forms, to give it
life.
This clone is identical to the original being in memories,
skills, experience level, and appearance at the
time the organic tissue was obtained from the being. It
has one less point of Constitution than the original
being, and it cannot form at all if the original being has
a current Constitution of 1. All other ability scores are
identical.
Unlike duplicates created by the 8th-level wizard
spell clone, the copy of the being is never aware of the
existence of the original. It remains in magical stasis and
is mentally unreachable (with a sole exception noted
hereafter). It does not age, decay, or need air, water,
food, or other essentials that other living things require.
A stasis clone can be stored in a coffin or other confined
space, and it is not awakened by handling. It can be
damaged or even destroyed by weapons, fire, crushing
blows, and other forces that would harm its living counterpart.
A stasis clone holds the pose it was last placed in by
living hands, and thus can be dressed and clothed so as
to be used as a decoy or to fool others into thinking they
are seeing the original being in a state of rest or sitting
absorbed in study.
Whenever the original being touches the stasis clone,
the clone's memories, skills and experience levels are
updated to match the original being's. Purely physical
differences, such as aging, a wound, or an amputation
the original being has gone through, are not mirrored by
the clone in this process.
The stasis is normally lifted only when the original
being dies, though up to two contingency spells may be
applied to any stasis clone to modify when and how it
activates. (Note that a stasis clone confined in an airtight
or flooded space may perish shortly after awakening.)
Multiple stasis clones can be created by repeated castings
of this spell. These stasis clones can even be linked to
each other by custom-devised transferal spells mated to
contingency spells so that the death of the first clone
awakens only the second, its death in turn activates just
the third, and so on.
Manshoon has used this spell both to escape a final
death and to remain young. As he ages, he can update
his stasis clone, get himself slain (usually in a reckless
attack that destroys an enemy, such as a powerful Red
Wizard), and return as a physically younger clone. Several
wizards have offered him fantastic sums for a copy of
this spell and reportedly have been refused. Others
(including apprentices) have perished quite messily at
Manshoon's hands when they attempted to steal the
spell.
Manshoon's stasis clones are obvious targets for those
who wish him dead, permanently. Several times his
enemies or his rivals in the Inner Circle of the Zhentarim
have gone to a great deal of trouble to kill him
and destroy all of his stasis clones, only to find that
Manshoon had squirreled away one or two they had
missed. One reason that Manshoon has not advanced
to a higher level as a wizard is undoubtedly the cumulative
loss of a great deal of experience because of the lag
between newly activated clones that had not been
recently updated and previous, now-dead Manshoon
incarnations.
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Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light |
Edited by - Tamsar on 02 Feb 2012 17:55:34 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1291 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 18:03:17
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| Thanks Tamsar...it's good to know my memory works well...as that's what I remembered about the spell. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 18:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Tamsar
Here's the goodies on Stasis Clone. . .
Do you mind citing where you got this from, both to appease the CoC and for my own curiosity. The only one I was able to find was in Lords of Darkness, which clearly states that it is as the clone spell with a couple of modifications. Albeit, that is a 3e version of the spell, and it may have had further modification in 3.5e. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 18:41:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
quote:
Originally posted by Tamsar
Here's the goodies on Stasis Clone. . .
Do you mind citing where you got this from, both to appease the CoC and for my own curiosity. The only one I was able to find was in Lords of Darkness, which clearly states that it is as the clone spell with a couple of modifications. Albeit, that is a 3e version of the spell, and it may have had further modification in 3.5e.
It didn't, since it got passed on without update through the Player's Guide to Faerun.
I *think* the 2e version might be from the Villain's Lorebook or some such. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 19:21:14
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Not to be confused with Stacy's Clone, which was created by Stacicantha of Ahlissa.
For years after her final demise, many Mages took delight in creating these things for parties... until Mordenkainen got wind of it and destroyed all known copies (and many of the disgusting magelings), except for one he keeps hidden amongst his 'don't touch' pile of magic. Elminster had requested a copy after hearing the tale, but was rebuked. Some say he managed to get a hold of a copy regardless.
This should not be confused with Stasis Clown, which was created by none other then Zagyg himself.....
{end transmission} |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Feb 2012 19:55:00 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36819 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 19:23:52
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| The original, 2E write-up of Stasis Clone was in the Ruins of Zhentil Keep boxed set. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 19:44:13
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In a homebrew game world I had, there was an order of wizards who all wore masks. They did this because they were all keyed to an ancient artifact that produced a new clone when an existing member died. They would then reawaken in this structure. One of the PCs was a member of this order and had been tortured and mutilated by drow while imprisoned. His comrades, upon rescuing him, made a show for the party of bundling him up to take to a healer, but once the party was gone, they off'ed him and destroyed the body.
I could see plenty of situations where stasis clones make a reasonable solution to all sorts of problems. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31796 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 01:32:02
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With regard to Manshoon, his power, and the potential opportunities for further power presented by his clones, you might want to consider this bit from both the Lady Hooded One, and Ed Greenwood:-
"With respect, folks, some of the discussion here is founded on incomplete understandings. The lower levels of various Manshoon clones aren't "mistakes." Manshoon's clones aren't created by the PHB clone spell, but rather by Manshoon's stasis clone spell (which has been detailed by Ed in 2nd Ed sources, and remember: FR lore isn't trumped by rules edition changes, so just because 3e and 3.5e have come along since then, it DOESN'T mean there isn't still a "stasis clone" spell used by Manshoon. Several scenes in Ed's novels detail the "awakening" of Manshoon's clones, which normally occurred only when the "previous" Manshoon died. The multiple clones, hidden all over the Realms (El has threatened Manshoon in published Realmslore that he knows where they all are), each have the levels, memories, etc. they had when created . . . so some of them are of FAR less power than 'more modern' Manshoons (so killing Manshoon DOES harm him). Manshoon adds new clones from time to time, but what happened with the Manshoon Wars was that all (or almost all) of the clones were awakened at once. Hence all the different levels, etc. To reiterate: there is no "transfer" of existing spells, memories, etc. to a newly awakened clone.
And yes, Manshoon IS the ultimate puppet master among non-liches and non-zulkirs, although there's something going on with Hesperdan that Ed hasn't revealed to us all, yet.
Not trying to rain on the parade here, just to correct things before too many assumptions in reasoning are made based on the wrong clone spell.
love,
THO" |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 01:50:48
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| I have to admit that achieving immortality through a one-man population is an interesting notion. Did/does Manshoon sometimes try to fool himself, stashing some clones away in places he would normally never consider? Or does he usually tend to think consistently, and make his clones accessible to his earlier selfs by putting them in places he would consider obvious? Even assuming that any two given clones are "simultaneously updated", are any differences introduced through the magical cloning process? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Light
Learned Scribe
Australia
233 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 05:52:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I have to admit that achieving immortality through a one-man population is an interesting notion. Did/does Manshoon sometimes try to fool himself, stashing some clones away in places he would normally never consider? Or does he usually tend to think consistently, and make his clones accessible to his earlier selfs by putting them in places he would consider obvious? Even assuming that any two given clones are "simultaneously updated", are any differences introduced through the magical cloning process?
I can see it now, Manshoon awakens does some plotting and then decides to hide a stasis clone in "places he would normally never consider" only to find that a "previous" Manshoon had indeed already stored stasis clones in these places because he thought his future selves would never consider these places. |
"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga) |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 07:49:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They are like computer backups - they will only know whatever it is Manshoon knew when they were created, unless he updates them (which he apparently didn't bother to do all that much).
Question: If you had this spell, and had a fairly young clone, why wouldn't you just update it and kill yourself?
Well these clones were supposed to be his last ditch survival measures so he would not use them recklessly. Besides I think anyone would feel just a little bit of misapprehension using this method because at the back of your mind there would always be a niggling doubt if the clone was really You. A good example is Peter F Hamiltons Commonwealth series where the even public utilizes something like this technique (with technology like memory cells , rejuvenation and cloning of course not magic) to achieve immortality but the elite members of society all choose to hold on to their original bodies as they cannot be sure if their clones will lack something , their essence or their soul if you will . |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 16:40:35
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I wonder about the current vampire Manshoon's power level. He has had 100 years or so of not dying so there has been no level/ability/memory loss to slow down his accumulation of personal power and ability. Is is possible he is the most powerful version yet (that we know of), or close to it, because of this? I say that we know of because for all we know there is a Manshoon Prime out there who somehow split his soul and has been watching from afar (or perhaps from not so far...) as his never ending string of clones runs amok (or carries out some secret agenda of his). Or any number of other possibilities that see more than one of him being out there.
Edit to add: I don't mean in terms of published game stats. I put him in the same group as the Chosen, the Zulkirs, etc who's published stats should probably be taken with a grain of salt. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
Edited by - Tyrant on 03 Feb 2012 16:42:08 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 18:41:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
I wonder about the current vampire Manshoon's power level. He has had 100 years or so of not dying so there has been no level/ability/memory loss to slow down his accumulation of personal power and ability.
I think it possible (but have no inside knowledge of this) that we might see this Manshoon (or at least his agents) in the last Shadowbane novel (yet-to-come), Eye of Justice, since I think that Erik is sending Shadowbane back to Westgate. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36819 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 19:16:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
I wonder about the current vampire Manshoon's power level. He has had 100 years or so of not dying so there has been no level/ability/memory loss to slow down his accumulation of personal power and ability. Is is possible he is the most powerful version yet (that we know of), or close to it, because of this? I say that we know of because for all we know there is a Manshoon Prime out there who somehow split his soul and has been watching from afar (or perhaps from not so far...) as his never ending string of clones runs amok (or carries out some secret agenda of his). Or any number of other possibilities that see more than one of him being out there.
Edit to add: I don't mean in terms of published game stats. I put him in the same group as the Chosen, the Zulkirs, etc who's published stats should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
It has been indicated, by Ed, that we've not yet seen the real Manshoon in print. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 20:03:06
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In a Buffy storyline (I only caught a few episodes, and was lucky enough to have seen this one), she 'dies' and is then brought back, by resustitation (this actually happened in a previous episode I didn't see). However, the moment she died, another Slayer was activated, and for the first time, the world had two Slayers.
So what if the unthinkable happens - one of Manshoon's underlings actually bothers to resurrect him? (something Manshoon himself never expected)
Also - and this applies to the clone wars as well - is the soul split? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Feb 2012 20:03:59 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 21:06:35
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lol @ Manshoon Prime.
I think the "original" Manshoon is long gone. Even the "oldest" Manshoon clones are still clones. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36819 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 21:19:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
lol @ Manshoon Prime.
I think the "original" Manshoon is long gone. Even the "oldest" Manshoon clones are still clones.
Again, Ed has indicated otherwise. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 21:55:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
lol @ Manshoon Prime.
I think the "original" Manshoon is long gone. Even the "oldest" Manshoon clones are still clones.
Again, Ed has indicated otherwise.
Y'see, none of these Manshoon clones have yet found the Matrix of Zhentilar Leadership, which is currently lost somewhere in the great scrapyards that dot the Endless Wastes, guarded by Raumathari offshoots who call themselves the Junk-Men. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 22:35:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
I wonder about the current vampire Manshoon's power level. He has had 100 years or so of not dying so there has been no level/ability/memory loss to slow down his accumulation of personal power and ability. Is is possible he is the most powerful version yet (that we know of), or close to it, because of this? I say that we know of because for all we know there is a Manshoon Prime out there who somehow split his soul and has been watching from afar (or perhaps from not so far...) as his never ending string of clones runs amok (or carries out some secret agenda of his). Or any number of other possibilities that see more than one of him being out there.
Edit to add: I don't mean in terms of published game stats. I put him in the same group as the Chosen, the Zulkirs, etc who's published stats should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
It has been indicated, by Ed, that we've not yet seen the real Manshoon in print.
Thanks, I thought I had read something to that effect in the Ask Ed section or a quote linking to it but couldn't be sure. With the quote Sage linked to calling Manshoon one of the ultimate puppet masters it seemed like something that he would do. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36819 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 22:37:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
lol @ Manshoon Prime.
I think the "original" Manshoon is long gone. Even the "oldest" Manshoon clones are still clones.
Again, Ed has indicated otherwise.
Y'see, none of these Manshoon clones have yet found the Matrix of Zhentilar Leadership, which is currently lost somewhere in the great scrapyards that dot the Endless Wastes, guarded by Raumathari offshoots who call themselves the Junk-Men.
Let's not have a D&D version of Unicron, please! |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 22:40:05
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If the rules of the universe (physics) are just sphere-specific - as D&D seems to imply - then doesn't that mean that someone can create clones in all different spheres, and they would 'wake up' as soon as that person departed the sphere?
I am thinking about how computers work - the spell gets a 'signal' from the person - either 'on' or 'off' (yes, the universe runs on Binary Code ). If a person exists the sphere, then the spell (on the clone) should register that that person no longer exists. As far as the magic would be concerned, they have 'died'.
Which means an archmage can leave a trail of himself all over the universe (and now I am back to the Council of Cross-Time Kangs). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36819 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 22:49:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If the rules of the universe (physics) are just sphere-specific - as D&D seems to imply - then doesn't that mean that someone can create clones in all different spheres, and they would 'wake up' as soon as that person departed the sphere?
I am thinking about how computers work - the spell gets a 'signal' from the person - either 'on' or 'off' (yes, the universe runs on Binary Code ). If a person exists the sphere, then the spell (on the clone) should register that that person no longer exists. As far as the magic would be concerned, they have 'died'.
Which means an archmage can leave a trail of himself all over the universe (and now I am back to the Council of Cross-Time Kangs).
I can see that, though I'm not sure what the purpose would be. What would Manshoon gain, for example, by having another Manshoon running around on Oerth? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 00:11:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
lol @ Manshoon Prime.
I think the "original" Manshoon is long gone. Even the "oldest" Manshoon clones are still clones.
Again, Ed has indicated otherwise.
Aye WR is correct here, there is indeed a Manshoon Prime sitting in his extra-dimensional hidey-hole somewhere watching his schemes and dreams unfold whilst his clone(s) run(s) around being head of the Zhentarim and doing all the hard work, whilst Manshoon Prime gets all the rewards.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12084&SearchTerms=manshoon+prime
Its about half way down (see my and then THO's post directly after)
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31796 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 01:43:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
I wonder about the current vampire Manshoon's power level. He has had 100 years or so of not dying so there has been no level/ability/memory loss to slow down his accumulation of personal power and ability. Is is possible he is the most powerful version yet (that we know of), or close to it, because of this? I say that we know of because for all we know there is a Manshoon Prime out there who somehow split his soul and has been watching from afar (or perhaps from not so far...) as his never ending string of clones runs amok (or carries out some secret agenda of his). Or any number of other possibilities that see more than one of him being out there.
Edit to add: I don't mean in terms of published game stats. I put him in the same group as the Chosen, the Zulkirs, etc who's published stats should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
It has been indicated, by Ed, that we've not yet seen the real Manshoon in print.
Yep. And there's a healthy dose of NDA's backing it up too, as I recall. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Question On Manshoon And His Stasis Clone
