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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 20:39:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
IMG, she was shot on sight after entering Faerun. They thought she was a Kender, and those have been outlawed since the Great Kender migration of 1392 (although rumor has it the hin or Luiren are harboring a small group of survivors).
Mialee just needs a good artist to depict her in 5e 
I always think that the elf-mage besides Lidda in the Barfight picture by Lockwood is Mialee after a beauty treatment
If there were Kender in Luiren they probably drowned
But there was a kender in Ched Nasad prior to it's destruction...we've got a picture...coincidence? |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 12 Feb 2012 21:43:37 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 21:48:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin
Liriel Baenre
Probably NDA of Elaine Cunningham, but it would be cool if they asked her where she does live and what she is doing at the start of a potential new novel; Is she a tutor for magic at Waterdeep’s House of Wonders after Mystras death or propator of a small tavern (maybe the ‘Crawling Spider’ in Waterdeep which is now staffed with actual drow girls) somewhere?
Ioulaum – The Oracle of Elyn’taal & Tabra – Voice of the Oracle
Before the Spellplague the mage Tabra was captured by the Shadovar (The North pg71, Lost Empires pg 101) and she was tortured to reveal information about her former master Ioulaum. She bravely refused, but in the end she was broken by the shade’s magic. She told the Shades where she thought Ioulaum took his supposed last stand against his allhoon students. The Netherese investigated the ruin of Elyn’tall and discovered the grotesque elder brain lich Ioulaum had become. They nonetheless invited the powerful spellcaster to join the reborn empire of Netheril – and Ioulaum accepted. Ioulaums whole lair was transported to the fallen underdark city of Oryndoll below the lands of Netheril. Tabra, his former apprentice, was given to him as a slave. Although Tabra is a powerful spellcaster herself and a good-hearted being, she is rarely able to act out on her own wishes. She is like a handpuppet Ioulaum sticks his tentacles into in order to show his visitors a pretty public face.
Srinshee
After she vanished shortly after helping erect Myth Drannor's mythal the former baelnorn reappeared rejuvinated in 1377DR and presented the rulers blade to Myth Drannors current coronal Ilsevele Miritar. She still serves her as a high mage.
If Wizards would really bring Halruaa back, I'd like it to be handled by Elaine, partly because she penned a good trilogy set in that realm, and also because it's a good opportunity for her to bring back her vanished characters, and preferably integrate them in one series.
As for Ioulaum, I'd like him to don a major role in thwarting the Shadovar, if not directly, then by means of proxies, and probably some alliance with other archwizards who dislike Telamont's plans.
The Srinshee would most likely appear in the later books of the new Elminster series, together with Larloch. And perhaps revealed as one of Mystra's "secret" Chosen. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 21:53:23
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I want it brought back in a consistent, logical manner, that makes it both more interesting then the original, and also a better locale to run a game (in other words, it needs a little less 'shiny').
Grunge it up a bit (Having Elaine work on it would be ideal), and then give it back to us.
I don't want a "poof! It's back" scenario like we had with Netheril and Imaskar. That was gawdawful. Either do it right, or let it R.I.P.
quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
IMG, she was shot on sight after entering Faerun. They thought she was a Kender, and those have been outlawed since the Great Kender migration of 1392 (although rumor has it the hin or Luiren are harboring a small group of survivors).
Mialee just needs a good artist to depict her in 5e
I always think that the elf-mage besides Lidda in the Barfight picture by Lockwood is Mialee after a beauty treatment
If there were Kender in Luiren they probably drowned
But there was a kender in Ched Nasad prior to it's destruction...we've got a picture...coincidence?
I'll have to check that piece of art out again*. She needs an 'Alias' treatment (you know... completely inappropriate clothing, etc).
You'll note that Lantan also had 'tinker gnomes', and its gone now as well. The conspiracy deepens......
*Edit: Just checked it - Thats good - not overly attractive, a bit 'alien'... just right. good call. She needs dark hair though. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Feb 2012 22:03:16 |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 22:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
*Edit: Just checked it - Thats good - not overly attractive, a bit 'alien'... just right. good call. She needs dark hair though.
Lidda told her to have it bleached if she wants to hang out with her and the other girls... all part of the beauty treatment |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 12 Feb 2012 22:11:40 |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 23:10:25
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Bring back ‚the Names’ II
A few more
Lady Desmonda/Eshaeris
The Harlot Queen of Mulmaster, after the destruction of Zhentil Keep she followed followers of Bane to Mulmaster. There the former erinyes now succubus slowly took control over many of the city’s festhalls and brothels. But she didn’t let go of Zhentil Keep totaly as several captains of the Black Moon Pirates are smitten to her and she keeps contact with her old hunting ground via these agents. One of her plans is to resurrect Scyllua Darkhope whose bones she recently had agents unearth and already summoned Tagaraene the White Nightmare back into the world.
Kael Mizzrym
The half-drow son of Pharaun Mizzrym and the half-fiend Aliisza is still a knight of Torm and has inherited the longlivity of his parents. He works to undo evil where he finds it, but keeps a low profile himself as his heritage brings problems even with every new generation of Torm’s own clerics.
Xael of the Starry Glen
The deva from the enclave of Selûnarra at the Gates of the Moon was recently reborn as a girl and is now in her teenage years. She currently works closly with the temple of Selûne in Waterdeep, but still prays for the Mystril/Mystra’s return. Xael also tries to convince the deva of Selûnarra to move the city back to Faerûn to counter the might of Netheril.
The Serpent Sybil
When the yuan’ti realm of Serpentes was destroyed during the Spellplague (as the landbridge to Chult was devastated), the god Sseth spirited away his chosen prophet to his realm and returned her after the spellplague had done it’s worst. She reentered the world in the city of Hlondath and helped the Mhairdaul family who alreday worshipped her to become rulers of the city. After that she used a more recent erruption of Mt. Ugruth that had damaged the city to hide it from the world. By sending agents to the next cities claimihg Hlondath had been destroyed, she virtually took it of the map. During the Wailing Years she rebuilt the city’s secret strength in underground brood chambers, housing yuan-ti, nagas and kobolds, while above mulan and turmish slaves rebuilt the city-state. Soon the Sibyl will reopen Hlondath to the world, using it as the seed for a new Serpent Empire.
Larajin the Younger Uskevren
Larajin, a cleric of Sune/Hanali, was the first to discover the dual nature of the goddess and revere her as one divine entity. Sune rewarded her with long live and an ever youthful body. When Netheril conquered Sembia and her halfbrother Thamalon Uskevren II. became a shade, she had to flee Sembia. While other members of the Uskevren family fleed to Waterdeep (see The God Catcher) she settled in Cormyr and became a high priest. Her granddaughter was named in her honor and developed into a stricking image of her grandmother. Larajin the Younger is also a believer of Sune and listend to her grandmothers stories of Sembia... and has decided that she does not like Sembians one bit...before or after the Shades. Soon she wants to see the world and live a life of adventure.
Shellan Highsong
A Crown Investigator of Eveningstar, Shellan found that the family business of a butcher was not her liking and she became an investigator of the crown, who had called upon the familie’s help so often in the past. She is still trying to uncover the mystery of the Ghost-Lady that haunts her home, the old Dartan’s Mill. She is a close friend of the current ruler of Eveningstar, Lady Tessa Winter-Cormaeril, the great-granddaughter of ‚Lord’ Tessaril Winter, who writes down Shellan’s cases as a hobby.
Elsara of Bloodstone
An adventurer from Damara, Elsara doesn’t know, that she is one of the last heirs of the Dragonbane-line of kings, descending from a bastard child of one of King Gareth’s grandsons.
Murial and Tobriand
Two of Halsters apprentices they survived the Spellplague, although at a cost. While Murial has become spellscared and is even more suspectible to bestial rages than before, Tobriand’s immortality failed and he had to exchange parts of his body with metal prostetics, until there was almost nothing left of the original Tobriand. Both still live in Undermountain and sometimes even train their own apprentices, although few of Murial’s survive for very long.
Nasidhy Morcane
The young female drow wizard-merchant is heir to the noble house of Morcane that once ruled Szith Morcane an outpost of fallen Maerimydra. She and her house only recently moved back into the ruins to resettle them, as the the outpost was home to six merchant houses in the past and therefore a valuble hub for trade.
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Edited by - Lirdolin on 12 Feb 2012 23:39:15 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 07:04:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin
2) Return the Crinti to Dambrath (I have my own idea, but would like to see you do it first ) Their removel was imo a loss because Dambrath as a Crinti Realm had a unique flavor and in 4e they had to make room for a land of 'shifter' barbarians. I won't ask for a total removel of the shifters but for a return of the loviatar-lolth worshiping half-drow to their holdings.
I'll second this. Among all the lands in the Shining South, this had the most 'Realms-unique' feel to it. At the risk of another (in my opinion, wholly unjustified) charge of 'bashing the designers' (or however it was stated in someone's PM to me), this is simply another way Wizbro took the Realms...well...out of the Realms, and whittled it down to the lowest common denominator, rather like reducing test score targets so that everyone passes with a decent grade. Can anyone see a reason for having done this? I don't.
It's one of the few lands that has retained geographical integrity, and half-elves (the Crintri) had to have possessed a decent degree of resourcefulness and self-sufficiency to exist in a Realms that, at best, viewed them with suspicion. I would state that it is not beyond the realm of possibility that there would have been a fair number of forward-thinking crintri that would have planned for some sort of catastrophe (albeit not the sort that hit them), and made it possible for a re-establishment of the 'old order'.
As it sits right now, you need to travel through the Beastlands to get to more Beastlands Dambrath. This is an area whose 'repair' can be easily explained, along with a decent amount of lore/backstory to explain how. I always thought the original idea behind Dambrath was 'cool', and just didn't (and still don't) see the point behind what they did to it. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 08:26:13
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I loved Dambrath as-was, and would very much enjoy the chance to write a novel or short story to address it. That's one on the list.
I see Dambrath as having not far to go tone fixed--we just have to return a little of its unique luster.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 09:18:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I loved Dambrath as-was, and would very much enjoy the chance to write a novel or short story to address it. That's one on the list.
I see Dambrath as having not far to go tone fixed--we just have to return a little of its unique luster.
Cheers
I have stubbornly and steadfastly refused to buy a Kindle or other e-reader for any reason. But if you write such a book, that would convince me to get one (of course, then I could read your other works as well  ).
- OMH |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 14 Feb 2012 09:18:43 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 16:18:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
I have stubbornly and steadfastly refused to buy a Kindle or other e-reader for any reason. But if you write such a book, that would convince me to get one (of course, then I could read your other works as well ).
- OMH
That is why I asked for one for Christmas. Not because I want to stop buying books, but because of eBook-only releases. And if you do eventually get one, make sure to check out Elaine's Thorn series. It is good stuff. Though I purchases my copies on Smashwords so I could have the DRM free .mobi format (still readable on the Kindle) instead of Amazon's DRM'd .azw format (unfortunately, that wasn't an option for Erik's Shadowbane). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2012 : 19:56:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I loved Dambrath as-was, and would very much enjoy the chance to write a novel or short story to address it. That's one on the list.
And I would love to read that story
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I see Dambrath as having not far to go tone fixed--we just have to return a little of its unique luster.
No problem, just give the sign for the reconquest to start(preferedly according to my attack plan a few pages back) |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 14 Feb 2012 22:03:18 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2012 : 17:35:00
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Here is a question that has been burning in my head for about 4.5 years. If Mystra is dead, and the 4e Core Corellon is has magic as one of his portfolios/spheres (IIRC); why didn't Corellon pick up the title of the Deity of Magic upon her death (other than for some reason the 4e Realms design team stated that they did not want a central FR deity of magic, also IIRC)? Really, as with Tyr, I do not see Mystra as being necessary to the setting, while I do see a deity of magic as necessary, considering that it is, and always has been, a "high magic" campaign setting.
Deific death is a reality in the Realms. And while I do not think that the 4e design team put enough effort into explaining why her assassination in her own plane makes sense, the fact that she could be killed does make sense to me. As much as I love the complexity of the pantheons of the pre-4e Realms, I do not mind characters (as the deities are as well as the mortals) get killed off if it is done well (think Khelben's death in Blackstaff; sad, but very well done). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 15 Feb 2012 17:36:14 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2012 : 18:00:46
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I'm not convinced Mystra is dead at all, but I don't want to step on Ed's toes in any way. He is dealing with that, so we'll just have to see.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2012 : 22:07:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I'm not convinced Mystra is dead at all, but I don't want to step on Ed's toes in any way. He is dealing with that, so we'll just have to see.
Cheers
Looking forward to Elminster Enraged... if you've read the previous two, you know why.
Edit: I decided I'd said too much; speculation removed for placement elsewhere... I also thought I might be a bit too close to the truth, so I'll wait until the book comes out. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 15 Feb 2012 22:20:13 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2012 : 23:37:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I'm not convinced Mystra is dead at all, but I don't want to step on Ed's toes in any way. He is dealing with that, so we'll just have to see.
Cheers
She just underwent through her scheduled reboot that Ao himself pre-programmed for maintenance and to regulate her ever-increasing power. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31797 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 00:54:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I'm not convinced Mystra is dead at all, but I don't want to step on Ed's toes in any way. He is dealing with that, so we'll just have to see.
Cheers
Ed's provided some intriguing theories so far on Mystra's potential future status, as well as on the future relationship any deity of magic would have with the reconstituted Weave.
I'm using those to forge ahead with my own ideas. Nothing definitive yet, of course. But I hope to present these theories of my own here eventually. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 02:57:14
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Well, I suggested in the other thread having the racial deities pull double-duty (nothing wrong with stream-lining), and I suggested Corellon as the new core/FR deity of magic.
However, I am aware of what Ed is working toward (or what we think he is working towards), but I think we can still have our cake and eat it too.
What if Mystra 3.0 (3M?  ) is more like Wee Jas - cold and indifferent, and Corellon takes the place of a new Azuth?
If we make Corellon the god of magic, as it pertains to spellcasting and wizardry in general, then he would be the day-today deity most Mages would worship. Mystra would then become more of the god of 'magic theory' - the actual raw power magic represents (which is more in-line with her original purpose).
So we can get Mystra back, 'fix' her, and still make Corellon the god of magic (and Elves). Besides, Corellon's androgynous nature I think would appeal more to both male and female mages. Mystra (and her Chosen) get put on a shelf (like Ao), out of the way of the game (and players with feelings of inadequacy), and they can get 'taken down and polished' every once in awhile, by Ed (or others he can trust). Give 'em a cameo here and there in a novel, but keep them out of the way of D&D. Corellon's been around almost since the beginning of D&D - he's stood the test of time; he'd make a great Azuth replacement, IMHO. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Feb 2012 16:57:26 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 03:45:51
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I wouldn't mix elven gods with human. My dislike for the elves (pesky creatures) aside, placing their gods in the same 'cage' as the humans would just create more problems than fix them, IMO. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 04:11:20
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| I still don't see what's so wrong with Racial pantheons, especially seeing how all of the main demihuman races besides humans aren't even from Abeir-Toril originally. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 05:09:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I wouldn't mix elven gods with human. My dislike for the elves (pesky creatures) aside, placing their gods in the same 'cage' as the humans would just create more problems than fix them, IMO.
Dennis: You've heard of Talislanta, right? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 05:50:22
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| Regarding the discussion on Dambrath: Yeah, what exactly did the designers of 4e have against the Shining South anyway? They pretty much steamrolled one of the most interesting and unique areas of the Realms. |
Edited by - Eladrinstar on 16 Feb 2012 05:50:59 |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
658 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 06:38:20
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| They said that nobody played in those areas. |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 06:51:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
They said that nobody played in those areas.
How would they know that? A big problem with the 4e changes was WotC telling us what we liked about the Realms instead of asking us. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 14:47:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
They said that nobody played in those areas.
How would they know that? A big problem with the 4e changes was WotC telling us what we liked about the Realms instead of asking us.
This.
One way we can make a positive use of the 4th Edition map (which seemed to be universally panned, regardless of what reviewers thought of the book it came in) is to say that the chunks of the Lluirwood on either side of the Gulf are not all that remains of Luiren. We can say that several sizable islands remain that still hold much of Luiren's cities and farms, and are even now being reclaimed by industrious hin.
The western Lluirwood already has halflings living in it (according to the FRCG), and it would be easy to place them on these islands that were not shown on the original map (heck, George Vancouver's maps of the 1790's Pacific Northwest coast of North America were used well into modern day, and he still managed to miss a few prominent geographical features). And from there, they can launch efforts to take back the lands along the eastern shore and have a somewhat 'rebuilt' Luiren, maybe along quasi-Minrothad lines. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 17:07:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
How would they know that?
Because, believe it or not, they actually talked to gamers and watched sales data.
The observation that gamers don't usually set their games in the southern Realms predates 4th Edition. It's been known since the run-up to the 3rd Edition FRCS. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 17:11:05
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I'd have to agree with all the above posts concerning areas that were changed.
It seems to me that it more along the lines of regions certain designers didn't like, then anything the fans wanted. They basically turned the Realm into their own HB versions of the Realms (and unfortunately had the authority to do so).
We are now playing in THEIR world, not Ed's. 
Suppose I was president of the U.S., and decided that Atarctica was useless, because 'no-one is really using it' (which would be my opinion). I could leave it, or I could order it nuked off the map.
But what would be the point in that? 
Its not like it was hurting anybody, It would almost look like I had personal vendetta against Antarctica.
Sooooo.... what did the Shining South ever do to anyone? Turning it into a wasteland didn't make it any more desirable to play in; quite the contrary. In fact, just because a lot of folks didn't play in it, doesn't mean folks didn't use it in other ways. For instance, I had covert groups of Halruaans operating all throughout the north (and Ed confirmed this - they did have 'agents' everywhere, even in Thay). I had Halruaan skyships mooring in distant ports, I had a few Halruaan archmages teaching at my College of Magic, etc, etc.
So it was still VERY useful, even though it was far away. I guess they had that same idea about Maztica (and yet, the new continent is just as far, and therefor just as useless, IMHO). The rest of the world is what breaths life into a setting - everything doesn't have to be about the campaign area. Thank god we don't use this sort of logic RW - we'd tear down stuff like the Colosseum and Stonehenge, and turn them into parking lots.
Mini-rant over.
I have some HB dwarven lore that would be appropriate to the thread-purpose, but I am going to post it elsewhere, simply because it is better fit in that thread.
The 'create Realmslore' thing happens all the time, all over this site. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Feb 2012 19:36:26 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 17:20:56
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I really wish that, before anyone on this website decides to put either:
1) their own words in a game designer's mouth
2) their own thoughts in a game designer's head
...that the person doing so would at least show the game designer the courtesy of asking them, either to their face in person or by email, what the designer was thinking when he or she made a design decision about the Realms.
Markus, we haven't been playing in Ed's Realms since the Old Gray Box was released. It ceased to be "Ed's" when TSR bought him out and saw significant changes before that first boxed set hit the store shelves.
I don't like what happened to the southern Realms all that much, but I'm not about to go bashing someone over it.
The point of this scroll is to fix things, not point fingers. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 18:31:48
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So I basically agreed with the four posters above you, and got singled out?
NICE.
Once again, I wish I had that link to that great article about 'additive' and 'subtractive' game design. Removing things for no other reason then because you can is a perfect example of subtractive.
Because there is a HUGE world of difference between "no-one used them" and "no-one liked them", and if they didn't figure that out... well.. thats the reason we got the 4e Realms.
Oh, and the most basic premise of the Forgotten Realms - its core mechanic, if you will - is that it is FILLED with gates (portals) to other places, both internally (the Road of Stars & Shadows) and externally (Planer Conduits). Halruaa and the rest of the shining South were NEVER 'far away' from a game perspective. Correct people's false perceptions, don't agree with them and take a sledgehammer to everything.
I had a lot more here, but I will save it (and use it) elsewhere... if necessary. This thread is a great start, but its not going to work if folks can't even agree that 4e needs fixing. It goes way beyond the lore itself - it has to do with the mindset behind the changes; if thats not going to change, then 5e is doomed from the start.
You think I don't realize the new 'Ed book' is just "Bread and Circuses"? It serves the same exact purpose the GHotR did at the end of 3e. You may be able to fool some folks, but I can see the writing on the wall. You can't fix things you won't admit are broken. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Feb 2012 19:37:42 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36834 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 18:35:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar
How would they know that?
Because, believe it or not, they actually talked to gamers and watched sales data.
The observation that gamers don't usually set their games in the southern Realms predates 4th Edition. It's been known since the run-up to the 3rd Edition FRCS.
If that's a known fact, why did we get two sourcebooks for the Shining South, one in 2E and one in 3E? People do play in Cormyr and the Dales, and the closest 3E came to giving a sourcebook for those places were the 'supermodules' at the end of 3E. And people play in Sembia, and we've yet to see a sourcebook there. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 18:40:21
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Parts of 4e FR are broken and need to be fixed. We understand and accept this. From what I can tell, WotC understands and accepts this. Just the fact that we're getting a 5e FR is evidence enough of that.
Stop arguing about whether it needs fixing--yes, it needs fixing.
Also, comments about "why oh why would they do this?" aren't helpful--we've been down that long, tedious road before. We know there were mistakes made. We can identify them without pointing fingers.
We're talking about how to fix it. Keep focused on that.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2012 : 19:21:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
The western Lluirwood already has halflings living in it (according to the FRCG), and it would be easy to place them on these islands that were not shown on the original map (heck, George Vancouver's maps of the 1790's Pacific Northwest coast of North America were used well into modern day, and he still managed to miss a few prominent geographical features). And from there, they can launch efforts to take back the lands along the eastern shore and have a somewhat 'rebuilt' Luiren, maybe along quasi-Minrothad lines.
Building on this idea here is an expanded part on Luiren from my Shining South ideas a few pages back:
Luiren
Some of Luirens halflings survivors regrouped over time and settled in the Hills of XXNameXX within the borders of XXRealmnameXX and named their new home ‘The Shire Luiren’. These Halflings are filled with fear of the sea and saying ‘someone who lives by (or near) the shore’ is their way of telling you someone is crazy. Aside from this they try hard to recapture the image of old Luiren.
Other halfling descendants of Luiren live in the South Lluirwood, the remains of Luirens old Luirrwood, and are skilled boatfolk and sailors. They are allied to the hin-halflings of Dambraths Hills of the Kings, who in turn are often in contact with Luirens refugies who took shelter with the elves of Amtar.
New:
After some time this alliances solidified and a new ‘Luiren’ was born from the three hin communities, but it’s center was contested land claimed alike by the dambrathi barbarians as their ancient traditional burial grounds and by the returned crinti as part of their realm. Unwilling to life in a fought over land the ingenious halflings looked for a better alternative and the seafaring hin of South Luirwood offered one: Many parts of the Gulf of Luiren were shallow as the halfings old homeland was online drowned a few feet, many old towers still breaking through the surface of the water. The halflings those decided that they would try to build artifical coastlands and islands from places that almost touched the waters surface. On some places they get the earth directly from the Gulf's floor, deepeing the waterways. They have already met with some succeses, the fledgling coasts and islands quickly growing. But not all is well, as bringing earth to the islands is difficult in itself and some of the drowned hin of Luiren do not lie peacful in their watery graves and started haunting their descandants.
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