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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 20:50:10
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Which is why Erik created this and his other thread.
The 4e lore wasn't all that bad - it was the 'slap in the face' (without explanation) presentation that was off-putting. They just didn't bother putting any effort into it what-so-ever.
The campaign-guide looked like the pasted-together notes of a half-dozen different people (who weren't all on the same page). It was epic bad.
Think about it - the 'favorite part' of the book for old FR fans was Ed's lore... and that was set in a region that had nothing to do with Faerun! That proves it wasn't the 'newness' of the lore - it was the lack-luster presentation (of the majority of it).
Thats what Erik is attempting - he is trying to retro-actively sugar-coat it. Not a bad plan, but I have to wonder whether it will be enough. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 23:20:55
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I don't know about retro-actively sugar-coating it. I have no interest in doing that. If the lore was bad, I wouldn't support it. But obviously I have (and still do), because I think the lore can work.
It's clear that the lunch lady served those burgers yesterday (4e Thursday), and a good number of the kids didn't like the look of 'em (they preferred the sandwiches on 3.5 Wednesday). There is, I think, good meat to be salvaged there, though, so today, we're cutting them up adding tomatoes and a little wine to make some awesome spaghetti meat sauce for 5e Friday. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 01:28:10
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| Let's not forget to add the super awesomesauce and lore heavy ingredients of 2E to the recipe! :) |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 05:04:43
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| By Moradin's Hammer. keep your wine... I wants me some dwarven ale. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 13:35:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
It's clear that the lunch lady served those burgers yesterday (4e Thursday), and a good number of the kids didn't like the look of 'em (they preferred the sandwiches on 3.5 Wednesday). There is, I think, good meat to be salvaged there, though, so today, we're cutting them up adding tomatoes and a little wine to make some awesome spaghetti meat sauce for 5e Friday.
Cheers
Then those lunch ladies are getting fired for adding WINE to the sauce in a school cafeteria. At least in the United States.
Th |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 14:56:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I don't know about retro-actively sugar-coating it. I have no interest in doing that. If the lore was bad, I wouldn't support it. But obviously I have (and still do), because I think the lore can work.
It's clear that the lunch lady served those burgers yesterday (4e Thursday), and a good number of the kids didn't like the look of 'em (they preferred the sandwiches on 3.5 Wednesday). There is, I think, good meat to be salvaged there, though, so today, we're cutting them up adding tomatoes and a little wine to make some awesome spaghetti meat sauce for 5e Friday.
Okay, maybe I didn't 'sugar coat' how I put things...
But we are basically saying precisely the same thing. The lore itself wasn't so bad - it was just the piss-poor implementation.
For instance, if D&D were a werewolf movie, and the man 'popped' into Wolf form instantly, with no segway in-between of the transformation, that would be the same 'jarring' situation I am talking about. You can't go 'man now'... 'wolf now' - it has to be a gradual transformation for us to see what happened, and make it more believable.
I can think of only one thing that used the 'instant change' approach to lycanthropy - an episode of Witches of Waverly Place (which I watch only because I have two younger boys still). Trust me - that show is epic-bad, if you are a fan of realistic magical situations. Its a very vague rip-off of Harry Potter, but written by people with IQ's of around 70 or so.
Anyhow, if you ever saw it, you'd know precisely what I mean by 'jarring'. Without a transitional period (or lore, in this case), we get a WTF? moment.*
So this thread is designed to "hide the zipper in the gorilla suit".
*{WTF = What the freak?}  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Feb 2012 18:06:56 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36834 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 17:30:15
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| Here's something else that doesn't make sense to me... The 4E dragonborn hate dragons. So why are they called "dragonborn" instead of something else? And a better question is, how is it that the Cult of the Dragon has been successful in recruiting dragonborn? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 17:32:48
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Yep, I'm all about the transition. The big deal-breaker I see with 4e wasn't the addition of this or that to the setting, or the Spellplague, or nerfing things, or even really the time jump--all those things could have been done well and could have been accepted (in time) by fans. It was the VAST SILENCE between editions.
They came at it with noble intentions: "here is a vast span of time for DMs to end their 3.5 campaigns and fill with whatever they want!" That's a great idea in theory, and there are a number of people who are thrilled to have such a thing.
But I am a fervent believer in "choice of canon" when it comes to it. I can always look at proffered canon and decide either to use it or to make my own stuff up instead. What I *can't* do is look at a vast emptiness and decide to use it--I *have to* make up my own stuff instead. And if that's the case, what's stopping me from using a different campaign setting instead?
If what you are drawn to about a campaign setting--be it the Realms, Golarion, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, whatever--is the plentiful lore that's created for you to use in your games, the 4e FR did you a disservice in forcing you to backfill all that information. Going foward, what I would like to see is the official attitude "here are all this awesome lore and all these options, and you should totally feel free to make s*** up!"
(Not to mention that it's excellent job security for designers!)
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Then those lunch ladies are getting fired for adding WINE to the sauce in a school cafeteria. At least in the United States.
Th
Noticed the flaw in my analogy, eh?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31797 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 00:06:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Here's something else that doesn't make sense to me... The 4E dragonborn hate dragons. So why are they called "dragonborn" instead of something else?
The easiest solution I can see for this, is that "dragonborn" is simply what the "uneducated" among non-dragonborn called them. Thus, we're ignorant to what the species call themselves... and the majority of outsiders basically consider that if it looks like a dragon, then... ... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 05:12:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Here's something else that doesn't make sense to me... The 4E dragonborn hate dragons. So why are they called "dragonborn" instead of something else?
The easiest solution I can see for this, is that "dragonborn" is simply what the "uneducated" among non-dragonborn called them. Thus, we're ignorant to what the species call themselves... and the majority of outsiders basically consider that if it looks like a dragon, then... ...
In my campaign, dragonborn call themselves "drakar." By contrast, "dragonborn" is a prejudicial pejorative, like calling humans "ape-born."
My editor insisted I use the term dragonborn in my forthcoming novel, but that passage is from a human's perspective, so it's cool.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31797 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 05:38:23
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Yeah. That's what I was getting at, basically.
And I'm "borrowing" the term 'drakar' for the dragonborn in my Realms, Erik, if you don't mind? At least, until I've finished with my own theories on explaining dragonborn in my Realms, whereupon I'll likely come up with my own name for what they call themselves. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36834 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 17:10:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Here's something else that doesn't make sense to me... The 4E dragonborn hate dragons. So why are they called "dragonborn" instead of something else?
The easiest solution I can see for this, is that "dragonborn" is simply what the "uneducated" among non-dragonborn called them. Thus, we're ignorant to what the species call themselves... and the majority of outsiders basically consider that if it looks like a dragon, then... ...
In my campaign, dragonborn call themselves "drakar." By contrast, "dragonborn" is a prejudicial pejorative, like calling humans "ape-born."
My editor insisted I use the term dragonborn in my forthcoming novel, but that passage is from a human's perspective, so it's cool.
Cheers
That works for me... I wish WotC had done something similar, instead of the "hey, check out these new dragonborn that are utterly unlike the previous dragonborn!"
It still doesn't explain, however, how it is that the Cult of the Dragon has been successful in recruiting them. The very name of the group says "Hey, we think dragons are the shiznit!" and yet, they've been doing good at recruiting members of a race that hates dragons... Not only that, but it seems unlikely to me that the Cult would even be around, after the events of the Rogue Dragon trilogy. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36834 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 17:14:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Yeah. That's what I was getting at, basically.
And I'm "borrowing" the term 'drakar' for the dragonborn in my Realms, Erik, if you don't mind? At least, until I've finished with my own theories on explaining dragonborn in my Realms, whereupon I'll likely come up with my own name for what they call themselves.
I've been fiddling with a dragonborn origin that's basically a race descended from half-dragons (using the classic half-dragon equals one dragon parent, one demihuman/human parent from 2E, not the 3E "dragons are like Zeus!" half-dragon template). I figure that if you start with nothing but half-dragons, have them interbreed, you'll eventually get something like the 4E dragonborn. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 18:20:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Here's something else that doesn't make sense to me... The 4E dragonborn hate dragons. So why are they called "dragonborn" instead of something else?
The easiest solution I can see for this, is that "dragonborn" is simply what the "uneducated" among non-dragonborn called them. Thus, we're ignorant to what the species call themselves... and the majority of outsiders basically consider that if it looks like a dragon, then... ...
In my campaign, dragonborn call themselves "drakar." By contrast, "dragonborn" is a prejudicial pejorative, like calling humans "ape-born."
My editor insisted I use the term dragonborn in my forthcoming novel, but that passage is from a human's perspective, so it's cool.
Is that final?
If I were you, I would have had the Dragonborn be insulted, and correct him (just one time), so that you establish, in canon, that they prefer NOT to be called that. For the rest of the novel you could of then gone on and used the term mandated by Hasbro.
Or do the editors not want the inconsistencies fixed? Are they THAT insistent on keeping all the 4e mistakes intact?
Dragonborn:
Anyhow, I look at it this way: Why do (American) Indians continue to allow themselves to be called 'Indians', when that was a mistake from the very beginning? If you are in the minority, and everyone else insists on calling you something, you eventually just say ****-it, and 'go with the flow'. You just chalk it up to ignorance and move on.
I have never used Dragonborn in one of my games, and I doubt I ever will. If a player wanted to use one, I would let him and consider it a half-dragon (in a Realms game - there are no 'True Dragons' left in my HB world... maybe..). I would also say that he is getting more 'draconic' at each level (I tend to customize each players back-story - it helps with the immersion factor, and goes a LONG way to bring new players to your table).
Genasi I just plain don't like - I hope I never run into a player that wants to play one (I wouldn't flat-out disallow it... thats counter-productive to the player/DM relationship). Some things are better left as 'specials' (DM-only), IMHO.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Feb 2012 20:23:25 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 18:29:38
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Indeed, the character in question is offended when someone calls him "dragonborn," and I've tried to make it clear that the term offends him.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 19:02:38
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@ Dragonborn: Let's not forget, that there were dragonborn in the Realms, before the Spellplague 'dropped' Tymanther on Unther. They were born through rituals transforming faithful of draconic gods (Tiamat and Bahamut) into dragonlike humanoids. The Sisterhood of Essembra (DoF pg.97-98)even 'sponsord' them. Damara with it's Bahamut-Cult probably sported a few of them. All proud dragon-worshipping dragonborn fighting in the Dragonfall War.
Unthers Tiamat-Dragonborn probably largly went the way of the dodo, but the other are probably still around. That said and keeping in mind that if 'Dragonborn' should now refere to the species of half-dragons, saurians etc. said 'hate for dragons' is now probably an purly Tymanther/ Returned Abeir (Laerakond)-dragonborn feature.
Same thing with genasi, they were there before the spellplague and faerunian genasi looked vastly different than the ones of Abeir/ Arkanul. Tieflings were also a much diverese bunch before 4e.
Oh, and an idea that came writing this: Please drop 'Returned Abeir' for 5e Realms and use 'Laerakond' ;)
Best wishes
Lirdolin |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 20:34:16
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You know, that could be a perfect example of 'use the lore to fix the lore' - they could "kill two birds with one stone".
What if new dragonborn and old dragonborn both exist? The old ones would have liked that monicker, and when the new ones showed up, ignorant Torillians would have just kept using the wrong terminology (much to the 4e dragonborn's chagrin). It would make for an interesting story to play that up - having members of the two different groups meet (probably violently).
EDIT: And since Abeir and Toril are supposed to be sort-of 'parallel worlds', it would make perfect sense that dragonborn would have arose on both. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Feb 2012 20:48:54 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 20:48:59
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MT, that's makes total sense.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 21:01:44
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Bring back ‚the Names’
'Old' names are recognized by veteran players and don't hurt new player's. As I already tried to show with bringing back Soneilon the Whispering Queen, Below I made an example-list of people who might be around in 4e/5e. I know it’s elf-heavy, but I like elves ;). Other fine examples for this inclued Steven Schend’s novel ‘Blackstaff Tower’ and other novels of the Waterdeep line like Downshadow, which brought back many characters (for example the Blackstaff ghosts) and family names to Waterdeep. And the Elminster and Drizzt series :) Other names have been given in the offical sourcebooks like the drow of Menzoberranzan.
Liriel Baenre
Probably NDA of Elaine Cunningham, but it would be cool if they asked her where she does live and what she is doing at the start of a potential new novel; Is she a tutor for magic at Waterdeep’s House of Wonders after Mystras death or propator of a small tavern (maybe the ‘Crawling Spider’ in Waterdeep which is now staffed with actual drow girls) somewhere?
Azariah Craulnober
Also NDA and same as above, Daughter of the once feared crimelord Elaith Croulnober
Probably wears Elaith’s returning dagger and the Croulnober Moonblade and hopefully she will take his place in Waterdeeps underworld. They could show where is she is at the start of the novel 'The Serpents Daughter' if it's not out by then.
(Milorn Dumathil a.k.a. ) Milo Dudley
Proprietor of the Dragon’s Jaws Inn in Suazil, an aged dwarf, former bouncer, inherited the inn from the old proprietor 70 Years ago
Zhai Cedarleaf
While Cedarleaf, the woodelven village in Vaasa lies deserted, the half-drow half-woodelf rogue Zhai still fights for Damara’s rulers against the threats of Vaasa and took her lost home’s name as as surname.
Ioulaum – The Oracle of Elyn’taal & Tabra – Voice of the Oracle
Before the Spellplague the mage Tabra was captured by the Shadovar (The North pg71, Lost Empires pg 101) and she was tortured to reveal information about her former master Ioulaum. She bravely refused, but in the end she was broken by the shade’s magic. She told the Shades where she thought Ioulaum took his supposed last stand against his allhoon students. The Netherese investigated the ruin of Elyn’tall and discovered the grotesque elder brain lich Ioulaum had become. They nonetheless invited the powerful spellcaster to join the reborn empire of Netheril – and Ioulaum accepted. Ioulaums whole lair was transported to the fallen underdark city of Oryndoll below the lands of Netheril. Tabra, his former apprentice, was given to him as a slave. Although Tabra is a powerful spellcaster herself and a good-hearted being, she is rarely able to act out on her own wishes. She is like a handpuppet Ioulaum sticks his tentacles into in order to show his visitors a pretty public face.
Crew of the Realmsmaster
After the god Labelas Enoreth restored the skyship ‘Realms Master’(see Dragon short story) and gave it to his Chosen Vartan Hai Sylvar, the newly appointed elf captain collected the former crew members. Todays crew inclued the golem Minder, the winged Jasmine who somehow survived to this day, the Cardluck hin family, mage-heirs of Dwalimar Omen and descendants of the Agrivar-Barasume family.
Alias
As she was created by magic, her father's gift was far greater than was expected, as Finder wanted to store his lore forever. So Alias didn't age and still wanders the Realms. She also tries to aid the Saurians who were driven underground by Netheril. Wants to help her father, the god Finder, to rid himself of the influence of Moander that infected him during the Spellplague. He is now a split personality divinity: the male Finder, god of creativty and genius and female Moander, representing the madness that borders creativty.
Aevrin Teshurr
The elf mage still lives in Myth Drannor serving the Coronal as high mage, searching for a way to aid Prince Lamuril Moonflower to find missing Princess Maura and the (now feywild?) elfrealm of Auseriel.
Malkizid, the Branded King
The former Exarch of Corellon, exiled Archdevil and now dark feylord, broods in a feydark kingdom he conquered from fomorians, ploting his revenge.
Countess Sarya Dlardrageth
After her death the fey'ri half-balor returned as a fiendish banshee and travelled to the Abyss to seek her fathers aid. Currently her fiendish father still is (lazyly) looking for a way to resurrect his daughter, sending her on missions until that time has come. Sarya is slowly starting to wonder if her father even intends to bring her back, considering her usefulness. So she starts to look for other ways to return to life and plots her revenge against her enemies, considering ways to infiltrate Myth Drannor after her resurrection.
Srinshee
After she vanished shortly after helping erect Myth Drannor's mythal the former baelnorn reappeared rejuvinated in 1377DR and presented the rulers blade to Myth Drannors current coronal Ilsevele Miritar. She still serves her as a high mage.
Kyriani Agrivar/ Kilil
Although Kyriani Agrivar is believed to have died, she abdicted the office of Blackstaff to Krehlan Arunsun, Kelben’s son, after one year. Her ‘ghost’ remaind in Blackstaff Tower nonetheless. After that she went back to being the propriator of a tavern until the Spellplague struck. The spellplague scarred her and her darker self again emerged in a fashion. Her changes are tied to the moon and in nights of the dark moon she changes into her drow-form Kilil who whorships Shar as much as Kyriani whorships Selűne.
Onyx
The dwarf Onyx is Kyrianis partner in running the tavern and also knows her secret. He tries every dark moon to keep Kilil under lock and key, but often has to fetch Kyriani from somewhere the next morning. Also still tries to tell a good joke without spoiling it.
Lady Ashemmi of Rymanthiin
The gracefull elven mage survived the spellplague and to her sadness outlived both her lover Sememmon and her son Ashemmon within the walls of Rymanthiin.
Shindia Darkeyes
(purely because it was her on the cover that made me buy my first FR supplement :) ) Thanks to some potions snatched from some dead wizard's lab, the half-drow rogue is still alive and kicking in Skullports/Downshadow’s underworld and maybe even serves a new Xanathar again.
Arcturia
The Arcturia are fey creatures of Undermountain and developed when the undead larva mage Arcturia was plaguechanged. All larva of her body cocooned and from them hatched small duplicates of Arcturias former fey self. They have some sort of hive mind, and are controlled by the oldest Arcturia as a queen.
The Houses Floshin of Waterdeep
House Floshin the Younger (Gold Elf)
Elorfindar Floshin’s four gold elf children and the half-elf descendants of his children with three Waterdhavian noblewomen. The gold elves still guard the many portals in the House of Long Silences, which lies in the depths of Ardeep Forest, while the half-elves represent the family within the walls of Waterdeep.
House Floshin the Older (Secretly Fey’ri)
In the days of the Siluvanede, House Floshin gave rise to one branch of the Fey’ri. Currently lead by their matriarch Lady Nylaersyn ‚the Changeling’ Floshin (Waterdeep-CoS pg58)
The Bearer of Aegisfang
NDA Salvatore...Since the days of Wulfgar Aegisfang itself has become a weapon of leadership and legend among Icewind Dales barbarians, and many who wielded it have become legendary heros of the North.
The Harpells
NDA same as above... The Harpells didn’t fare well during the Wailing years and many of the Clan succumbed to the Spellplagues first initial rages. But the current patriarch of the clan Matherly Harpell who was turned to stone before the Spellplague, was freed by it during the Wailing Years. Many Harpells of today are spellscarred wizards and study the plagueland of their former ancestral seat Ivy House in Longsaddel(of whom they are now the only residents aside from some loyal retainers). Many asume that at least one plagechanged and possibly undead Harpell from before the Spellplague still hiddes there.
Bring back the Iconics
I already mentioned Aevrin Teshurr above and they should try to bring back some other ‘Iconic NSC’ from the sourcebooks or their heirs. I believe most were members of the Company of the White Star. Belmora the dwarf cleric is dead, but maybe the dwarf from the 4e Forgotten Realms Players Guide’s cover is a relative? The drow chick on the same cover could take another role among the iconics as the drow and the dwarf both seem to appear in the players guide and the Neverwinter book. Maresa Rost or her decendant could cover the genasi among the iconics.
So we have characters from 3e and 4e working together on the books pictures.
The same treatment could be applied to the general DnD 5e: Bring back Regdar (who doesn't remember his latest picture showing him laying on th floor bleeding while 4e heros fight on?  ), Lidda, Mialee and gang and add new iconics drawn from races and classes of 4e. Maybe a busty female dragonborn paladin and the tiefling warlock with the russian accent from the DnD mini-cartoon ‘Tiefling and Gnome’? And let’s not forget to bring back Meepo or at least his heir Meepo the 25th ;-)
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Edited by - Lirdolin on 12 Feb 2012 08:32:31 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 22:55:52
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I have mentioned/used in a past novel, will mention/use in a forthcoming novel, or have distant plans to mention/use a few of those characters.
I also suspect that RAS isn't done with Aegis-Fang yet. But I guess we'll see!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 23:04:09
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that hammer would only work for one man and one man only.Wulfgar.... which means it serves the line of Wulfgar if the hammer deams said weilder worthy.
hahahahha imagine if the next wielder of that hammer is Wulfgar's granddaughter...
scary isnt it |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 00:14:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin
Bring back the Iconics
I already mentioned Aevrin Teshurr above and they should try to bring back some other ‘Iconic NSC’ from the sourcebooks or their heirs. I believe most were members of the Company of the White Star. Belmora the dwarf cleric is dead, but maybe the dwarf from the 4e Forgotten Realms Players Guide’s cover is a relative? The drow chick on the same cover could take another role among the iconics as the drow and the dwarf both seem to appear in the players guide and the Neverwinter book. Maresa Rost or her decendant could cover the genasi among the iconics.
So we have characters from 3e and 4e working together on the books pictures.
The same treatment could be applied to the general DnD 5e: Bring back Regdar (who doesn't remember his latest picture showing him laying on th floor bleeding while 4e heros fight on? ), Lidda, Mialee and gang and add new iconics drawn from races and classes of 4e. Maybe a busty female dragonborn paladin and the tiefling warlock with the russian accent from the DnD mini-cartoon ‘Tiefling and Gnome’? And let’s not forget to bring back Meepo or at least his heir Meepo the 25th ;-)
I don't understand how this furthers the Realms moving forward (though I liked rest about bringing back Realms characters that may still be alive in the 1408s). The Iconics you mention here are from the 3e Core Rulebooks, and were most likely set in Greyhawk. It does not make any sense to bring them back to try and further the Realms' goals. What I do think they need to do is bring back the 3e Realms artists. That is one of the non-lore-related things that I really liked about the 3.x Realms vs 3.x Core: the artwork was way superior in the Realms supplements (IMHO).
The reason that I own as many of the 3.x Realms supplements is for every drop of lore I could milk out of them. The supplemental rules are nice, but I rarely used them beyond some of the feats. To be honest, if I had not picked up the 3e FRCS, I would probably have not ended up playing D&D at all. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31797 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 01:39:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Here's something else that doesn't make sense to me... The 4E dragonborn hate dragons. So why are they called "dragonborn" instead of something else?
The easiest solution I can see for this, is that "dragonborn" is simply what the "uneducated" among non-dragonborn called them. Thus, we're ignorant to what the species call themselves... and the majority of outsiders basically consider that if it looks like a dragon, then... ...
In my campaign, dragonborn call themselves "drakar." By contrast, "dragonborn" is a prejudicial pejorative, like calling humans "ape-born."
My editor insisted I use the term dragonborn in my forthcoming novel, but that passage is from a human's perspective, so it's cool.
Cheers
That works for me... I wish WotC had done something similar, instead of the "hey, check out these new dragonborn that are utterly unlike the previous dragonborn!"
I think Wizards might have been trying to bank on the pre-existing concept of the dragonborn in 3e. Granted, there are differences, but it isn't the first time a gaming company has borrowed from a past concept to promote something "new."
quote:
It still doesn't explain, however, how it is that the Cult of the Dragon has been successful in recruiting them. The very name of the group says "Hey, we think dragons are the shiznit!" and yet, they've been doing good at recruiting members of a race that hates dragons... Not only that, but it seems unlikely to me that the Cult would even be around, after the events of the Rogue Dragon trilogy.
The way I play it, usually, is that these dragonborn aren't actually "recruited" -- they're "pressed" into service by the Cult. In other words, they're not willingly joining the Cult of the Dragon... they're been forcibly drafted in order for the organisation to bolster its severely depleted forces. The application of mind-wiping and/or other arcane/psionic devotions likely result in the forcible compulsion of these dragonborn coming to work with the Cult. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31797 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 01:43:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Yeah. That's what I was getting at, basically.
And I'm "borrowing" the term 'drakar' for the dragonborn in my Realms, Erik, if you don't mind? At least, until I've finished with my own theories on explaining dragonborn in my Realms, whereupon I'll likely come up with my own name for what they call themselves.
I've been fiddling with a dragonborn origin that's basically a race descended from half-dragons (using the classic half-dragon equals one dragon parent, one demihuman/human parent from 2E, not the 3E "dragons are like Zeus!" half-dragon template). I figure that if you start with nothing but half-dragons, have them interbreed, you'll eventually get something like the 4E dragonborn.
I've drawn from the half-dragon element too, sprinkled a little draconian creation myth, added a dash of otherworldy saurial-ness, and then let it stew for around for a period, SageTime Reckoning. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 07:55:31
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IMO dragonborn aren't really a single *thing* in the realms--the term is a catch-all for several different "dragon-man" creatures, and it's inclusion in the rules is so that you can play a member of any of those races and have a mechanical chassis to build on. The dragonborn from Tymanther are the most common "dragon-men" in 4e, but by no means the only ones.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 08:42:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I have mentioned/used in a past novel, will mention/use in a forthcoming novel, or have distant plans to mention/use a few of those characters.
I also suspect that RAS isn't done with Aegis-Fang yet. But I guess we'll see!
Yes rub salt into the wound, that I can still only read one of your 4e FR novels and the novella Or did I overlook that mention in Downshadow?
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I don't understand how this furthers the Realms moving forward (though I liked rest about bringing back Realms characters that may still be alive in the 1408s). The Iconics you mention here are from the 3e Core Rulebooks, and were most likely set in Greyhawk. It does not make any sense to bring them back to try and further the Realms' goals. What I do think they need to do is bring back the 3e Realms artists. That is one of the non-lore-related things that I really liked about the 3.x Realms vs 3.x Core: the artwork was way superior in the Realms supplements (IMHO). (...)
The later part of the 'iconics'-idea is aimed at general/generic DnD sourcebooks. I do believe that 5e DnD should use iconics like the Pathfinder ones. And I also believe that Regdar,Lidda, Mialee and troup where the best known 'generic iconics' 3e DnD had sofar and would be good to see again with added 4e counterparts (covering DnD 4e races and classes) in DnD 5e general sourcebooks (without the GH connection). The Forgotten Realms sourcebooks should make use of their own set of iconics in a similar way. Taking the surviving iconics from 3e adding up ones from 4e IMO shows that they are thinking of the 3e and 4e fans, bringing both eras together in 5e.
And I also would be happy to see Lockwood and other 3e artists return for the FR 5e, although I do like artists like Eva Widermann from the 4e books as well. What I really hope for is that they drop the gigantic swords/weapons, covered with glowing runes... this isn't a manga (always thinking of Cloud's blade in Final Fantasy-Advent Children when I see one of those things). But in the end art is something that lies in the eye of the beholder. |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 12 Feb 2012 09:40:28 |
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 10:03:29
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
hahahahha imagine if the next wielder of that hammer is Wulfgar's granddaughter...
scary isnt it
Why? Wulfgar always had some Thor or He-man vibe. Thinking of Thor he had a daughter named Thrud (strength), so I have no problems seeing Aegis-Fang in the Hands of a young redhead barbarian chick who grew up with stories about Drizzt and now seeks him out to experience adventures at his side.  |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 12 Feb 2012 10:06:13 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 16:58:12
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I love that! Hammer-wielding Viking chicks are hot!
I also like your Iconics idea Lirdolin; Paizo does use these very well.
And there is no reason why Redgar & company can't be in the Realms - all the settings (except Eberron and maybe Aebrynis) were connected together in 2e, by PS, SJ, and even RL (There were Athasians - Darksun - in Ravenloft). Canonically, there is absolutely no reason why any characters need to be setting-specific - Kara-Tur material even had off-hand mentions of Elminster.
If they take my own 'meta-setting' concept for 5e FR and run with it - a setting that includes ALL other settings (which is the most basic premise of The Forgotten Realms) - then why can't a group of Oerth characters be adventuring in Faerun?
I am a HUGE fan of the 'all is one' approach for 5e - it should be able to accomplish what they tried to do in 4e ("one rules to rule them all"). It would even help if they decide to later go with an 'alternate timeline' approach (in that all worlds are just alternates of each each other).
I dream of a day when Mordenkainen could be the new Blackstaff.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 18:15:10
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No no more Mialee, I sacrficed her ugly face to Bane and he was most pleased.
ick I hated that elf... ugly ugly ugly ugly.
okay so you like the idea of wulfgar's grandaughter adventuring with Drizzt's side...... now imagine a relationship growing out of that....
hahahahaha
yeah it wasn't really scary of an idea was it |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 20:28:14
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| IMG, she was shot on sight after entering Faerun. They thought she was a Kender, and those have been outlawed since the Great Kender migration of 1392 (although rumor has it the hin of Luiren are harboring a small group of survivors). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Feb 2012 21:50:20 |
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