| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 16:06:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I mean, what more lovable, sagely character can you find in the person of the Sage of Perth? Or "Sage Operth," as Krash once semi-canonised me through his own lore here at Candlekeep. [See Krash's entry for "Haratholdokh" here.] 
Just waiting for the right opportunity. I think something having to do with Negarath. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
 |
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 16:57:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
[Thank you for participating, but don't leave yet--this is when the scroll goes to phase 2: throw out some ideas for your honorary FR character. I will gladly take ideas to fit them into my novels.
Cheers
Hmmm.....I think there is just too many to choose from lol. Instead, how about I just offer any one of these guys for your services. Theres so much of my ideas and thought into them that it's too hard to choose just one. So feel free to use any of them for this or any future product you may have. It's why I posted them in the first place (from diabolical villians to heroic allies to bags of hit-points that die in obscurity). |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36834 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 18:23:17
|
| I'm interested in donating a character or two... Have you anything particular in mind, either in class/race/alignment, or in locale? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 18:36:24
|
I thought we all 'won' when the OGB was released? 
And now we are about to 'win' again.
But thanks Erik, just for trying to get the fans more involved in the Realms design-process - its a magnificent effort.
EDIT: I have four major NPCs and one minor one, from stuff I've worked on here and elsewhere (the characters I use to 'frame lore', in the uncertain 3rd-person style). However, I have one in-particular I like, which I am sure you are aware of. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 07 Feb 2012 18:39:49 |
|
|
|
Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 19:46:12
|
Heh...I am under no illusion that anyone with the name I use here will actually be employed in a book, much less a grumpy old wizard who makes Elminster look like a pep rally leader. And next to many of the entries thus far, his story is rather...well...boring. But what the heck...
It goes without saying that his first name is NOT 'Malchor', he dislikes most members of his own family, lives in a small 2-story stone and slate-roof cottage in Candlekeep (where he makes odd magical trinkets for the scribes and such), pens scrolls and spellbooks for the scribes (for a modest fee - the biggest payment he gets is his home in the Keep), and actually remembers the Year of Blue Fire (he was a young apprentice to a relative at the time). Beyond that, little is known - he says little and is of the mind to say even less.
Like I said...boring. |
|
|
|
Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 20:56:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Heh...I am under no illusion that anyone with the name I use here will actually be employed in a book, (...)
But it's a perfect introduction to my next suggestion (not a challange as it is not strictly about creating Realmslore but in my opinion would help to mend the editions):
What about the Harpells (and Longsaddel)?
Ok not striktly only the Harpells, but I would like to ask for more love for the iconic characters in FR 5e.
In 4e FRCG Drizzt isn’t even mentioned, Mithril Hall got a box under ‘Kingdom of Many Arrows’ where it was mentioned that Bruenor died, Elminster at least got a text block and a grumpy looking picture, the Simbul got one or two sentences. Manshoon and Jarlaxle at least got stats and descritions because they could be fought by the players heroes. I asume that this was done to give the spotlight to the players heroes, but to me the novels heroes are part of the realms and I would like to know about them outside the novels so I can see that my heroes are on the same stage, acting in (and saving) the same world.
I for instance would like know about how Araevin Teshurr is doing as high mage in the post-spellplague realms, read first hints about Elaith Croulnoubers daughter, see mentionings of the new heroes of Waterdeep (like the new Blackstaff’s gang, Shadowbane, along with his girls Myrin and Fayne...), a bit about the Chosens of Mystras fate, Drizzts and Deliahs adventures in the Neverwinter section and stuff like that... a let's not forget to mention Longsaddel and the Harpell family's post-spellplague status (probably NDA by Salvatore  )
But back to creating Realmslore to mend the editions:
I also think that the 4e FRCG ‘deleted’ many (smaller) NSC that could have made it into the book with no problem. Probably it was meant to clean the slate for new players who shouldn’t be drowned with background lore. For instance the FRCG has the Crown of Whispers but (literally) banished the Queen of Whispers attached to it, but I think the crown was more interesting with her:
The Crown of Whispers
The succubus Soneillon, called the Queen of Whispers, always expected that someone would eventually try to banish her from the Realms and so she planned ahead and bound a tiny fraction of her essence to the Crown of Whispers, anchoring herself to it and the Realms, essentially making it her phylactery*. Now whenever someone donned and used the Crown the banished fiend slowly could change places with the crowns wearer. When the Spellplague ripped her from the Realms into the Abyss/ Nine Hells (where ever a succubus went at that time), she fully expected the stay to be ashort one. What Soneillon didn’t foresee was that her former servants, the hobgoblins of Giantspire Gap, were too afraid to use the artifact, fearing she would return any moment and punish them for touching her most prized possesion. They began to revere the crown like a holy relic. It took them five hobgoblin generations to loose their fear of the Queen of Whispers and make use of the crown. In 1482 DR a brave hobgoblin chief of the tribe finally decided that he wanted his underlings to fear him and not a semi-mythical Queen of Whispers. First it seemed that he was proven right,as the crown not noly granted it’s known powers but also slowly altered the chiefs appearence for the better, finally even granting him wings. But when his hair fell out, his features started to grow human and finally his sex changed it was already to late* and in a matter of days Soneillon had completelly traded places with the chief, resuming her role as Queen of Whispers among her faithfull hobgoblin servants, planing her conquest of demonhaunted Impiltur anew.
(* Inspired by the fiendish phylacteries and Transposition Rules from Ravenlofts Van Richtens Guide to Fiends)
Best wishes
Lirdolin
|
Edited by - Lirdolin on 07 Feb 2012 20:57:26 |
|
|
|
Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 22:53:57
|
And a new challange:
Where have all the half-dragons gone?
The 3e Realms were literally swarming with half-dragons of all kinds and flavors, while 4e almost seems to make no mention of them what so ever (although I do suspect that the tiefling magister Kylynne Silmerhelve, FRCG pg.195, is actually a half-dragon considering his families connection to a dragon). They seem to have been replaced by the new and shinny dragonborn. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 23:48:36
|
'Dragonborn' is several things.
First off, its a game mechanic, which can be applied to lots of things.
Second, it's "lots of things". Apply that race-template to new Dragonborn, old dragonborn, half-dragons, Khaastas, Lizard kings, etc
So those races didn't go away, but for simplicity assume the rules for all of them got blended together.
What I want to know is, how do the births of half-dragons go? I understand shape-changing is involved in conception, but wouldn't the race of the mother determine the method of birth? In other words, a male dragon/human female crossbred should be born va... ummm... in the normal manner. 
But a Female Dragon/Male Human should be born in an egg.
Which should really determine just how 'draconic' the offspring is (some features, or full-blown 'dragonman'). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 07 Feb 2012 23:49:46 |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 00:02:31
|
I fully support the use of the dragonborn race in order to create a character that is mechanically a half-dragon. (I'd suggest giving said character wings, for verisimilitude.)
With minor tweaks, you can also use the dragonborn to be a Saurial. Like I said--tweaks. This isn't me arguing that "ZOMG Saurials and Dragonborn = the same!" (I do think they share a common ancestor, but the races diverged pretty substantially--across two different worlds.) I'm saying that if you want to play a saurial, I recommend using the dragonborn race for the mechanical basis.
An anecdote from personal experience: in my 4e paragon game (which is soon to become epic, as we're on the verge of 21st level), there is a paladin whose father was a moon elf and whose mother was a Krynnish silver dragon, making him an elf/dragon. I believe she gave birth to him while in human form, so he was born the conventional way and looks mostly like an elf with certain draconic features that manifest when he gets angry (which is often). We use dragonborn as the mechanical basis for his character, and it works great.
That he's also a chosen of Mystra who still wields silver fire despite his goddess being gone for a century is another matter, and is deeply significant to the plot. Whenever he uses his powers, though, there's a chance they go wild and we bust out the 2e Tome of Magic wild magic tables. He drains his own healing surges to heighten his silver fire, though every surge he uses makes it more unstable.
Incidentally, in that campaign, my shadar-kai swordmage has recently been imbued with some of the last lingering power of a different Weave entirely (yep, the shadow weave), and the two of them have some sort of deep connection (which may or may not have to do with their sordid physical relationship*). It is clear that she can (without his permission) drain his healing surges to power her own shadow fire, and he can probably drain hers to heighten his silver fire. It is clear that their powers don't necessarily play well with each other, though--they tend to explode or cause significant wild magic surges when they interact.
*Note: So basically we're playing two chosen of Mystra in classic Ed style.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31797 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 01:01:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
With minor tweaks, you can also use the dragonborn to be a Saurial. Like I said--tweaks. This isn't me arguing that "ZOMG Saurials and Dragonborn = the same!" (I do think they share a common ancestor, but the races diverged pretty substantially--across two different worlds.) I'm saying that if you want to play a saurial, I recommend using the dragonborn race for the mechanical basis.
I like this idea. Especially since we know the saurials did survive the Spellplague. Though the FRCG notes that they were driven underground by the Netherese.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 06:24:01
|
| Ok, that works for me |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 07:01:31
|
Since fertilizing an actual dragon egg doesn't seem like something a humanoid can do under most circumstances, I do think probably humanoid / dragon babies are probably best born mammalian style.
Either the humanoid mother bears a live baby, or the dragon mother has to take human form to give birth. I seem to recall the Book of Erotic Fantasy had a rule where polymorphed mothers were locked into a certain form either throughout pregnancy or at late stage.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 07:10:43
|
The usual approach in fantasy (outside D&D lore, at least) is for human-dragon children to take one form or the other, often entirely unaware of their parentage and only possessing special traits which make them stand out from the crowd.
Actual scaly dragon-humanoids seem to be comparatively rare. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 14:52:32
|
| The Realms needs an injection of humour IMO. Dark and sinister is all well and good but a good belly laugh or chuckle really makes a difference. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31797 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 15:31:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I seem to recall the Book of Erotic Fantasy had a rule where polymorphed mothers were locked into a certain form either throughout pregnancy or at late stage.
Could you elaborate a little more on this, Erik? I don't have a copy of BoEF, but I'm curious about how this rule would work. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 15:44:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
The Realms needs an injection of humour IMO. Dark and sinister is all well and good but a good belly laugh or chuckle really makes a difference.
Indeed.
That said, I think it depends somewhat on which of the novels you read. If you're all about Drizzt, then yeah, it's action action action, pretty much all the time, but there are a number of humorous pieces out there. Despite a bleak title, City of the Dead, for instance, is hilarious, and I think there's plenty of room in the personal/character-driven stories for some major comic relief. (There's a certain gnome bard in Eye of Justice that I'm hoping will tickle a funny bone or two.)
It's only the 4e marketing that suggests that 4e is bleak and depressing--when you get down to it in the novels and adventures, it's just as warm and rich as the Realms ever has been, IMO.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I seem to recall the Book of Erotic Fantasy had a rule where polymorphed mothers were locked into a certain form either throughout pregnancy or at late stage.
Could you elaborate a little more on this, Erik? I don't have a copy of BoEF, but I'm curious about how this rule would work.
I could be remembering it totally wrong. I will look into it when I get back to my library. |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 16:25:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Since fertilizing an actual dragon egg doesn't seem like something a humanoid can do under most circumstances, I do think probably humanoid / dragon babies are probably best born mammalian style.
Either the humanoid mother bears a live baby, or the dragon mother has to take human form to give birth. I seem to recall the Book of Erotic Fantasy had a rule where polymorphed mothers were locked into a certain form either throughout pregnancy or at late stage.
As for the first part, I would run it (in my games) that the child would be more of the nature of the mother at the time she gave birth. In other words, if born human-style then the offspring would be human with some draconic features, whereas a child born from an egg would be a lot more like a dragonborn.
However, I do like what you proposed at the end there, from that 3rd party source - I think a mother should get locked into the form she had when she conceived. That not only makes perfect sense, but it also allows for some really good stories (both in-game and novel).
They should make that D&D canon - good stuff.
EDIT: And you could still use both: suppose the mother had a small window in which she could change back? Until fertilization occurs, she wouldn't be under that 'cosmic decree'. Once the the egg is fully fertilized , then she would be under 'lock down' for the duration. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 08 Feb 2012 16:28:56 |
|
|
|
Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 16:37:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
The Realms needs an injection of humour IMO. Dark and sinister is all well and good but a good belly laugh or chuckle really makes a difference.
Danilo made me laugh more than I can count, but I'd admit that he's pretty much the only intentionally-funny character I've read about. |
|
|
|
Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 21:33:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
The Realms needs an injection of humour IMO. Dark and sinister is all well and good but a good belly laugh or chuckle really makes a difference.
Danilo made me laugh more than I can count, but I'd admit that he's pretty much the only intentionally-funny character I've read about.
I did like the Bouldershoulder brothers, they were a classic double act. |
|
|
|
ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 21:47:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
If you're all about Drizzt, then yeah, it's action action action, pretty much all the time...
The Drizzt novels still have their moments of humour. I recall one such moment (in Siege of Darkness I believe) when the Harpells came to aid Mithral Hall during the drow invasion.
Specifically when they were battling the illithids. Polymorphing the locations of their brains and their buttocks....and the reaction from the mind flayers when they tried to have a nice meal... |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
|
|
|
Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2012 : 21:53:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
If you're all about Drizzt, then yeah, it's action action action, pretty much all the time...
The Drizzt novels still have their moments of humour. I recall one such moment (in Siege of Darkness I believe) when the Harpells came to aid Mithral Hall during the drow invasion.
Specifically when they were battling the illithids. Polymorphing the locations of their brains and their buttocks....and the reaction from the mind flayers when they tried to have a nice meal...
That was a long time ago, I remember it fondly lol. |
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 02:36:21
|
Here's a HUGE one:
Hanali Celanil and Sune.
Hanali Celanil and Sune have been described in the past as having intense rivalries; therefore, beign SEPARATE deities. Now, Sune is being described as being Hanali Celanil when visiting Arvandor. That totally goes against all past lore and should definitely be rectified. |
|
|
|
Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 03:48:42
|
I know I mentioned this in another thread, but:
Hlondeth.
The reclamation and expansion by the yuan-ti of the City of Serpents, perhaps as a result of biding their time in an 'Undercity', waiting until the time was right (The Stars Were Right?) to once again declare the city of Hlondeth their sovereign property.
There are simply too many opportunities here for this not to be done. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 05:59:11
|
The dogma of the churches of Hanali and Sune say they were rivals - did we actually ever see this rivalry in print, aside from its stated existence? I'm sure the priesthoods had it out for each other, but that doesn't always reflect how things are in 'the heavens'.
Sune is (probably) Aphrodite (Sune=Venus backwards, minus the 'v'). Aryvandar and Olympus share a plane....
HELLO! Nymphs, Centaurs, Saytrs... could the Greek Pantheon be any more Fey?
Its simple - what mortals always perceived as two separate pantheons are really just one extended pantheon (which should include the Celtic and Fey pantheons as well). What you see just depends on what door you enter through (in other words, your experience is derived from your own racial beliefs on such things).
In my proto-pantheon, I have it where Corellon is the son of Frey and Titania (and his 'twin' Gru-maas had a different father - Maelkith). Homebrew, of course, but I inter-connected all the pantheons long ago.
I think all the Elven deities have human alter-egos, or vice-versa (several do in canon). For instance, I think Deep Sashelas is the same being as Poseidon, which is why we have a mention of him in the Realms (the Bloodstone products). We also have Kronos and Dionysius (and the entire Greek Pantheon, along with the Norse and several others, in DoD).
So the simplest solution is that there is no Elven Pantheon, and there is no Greek Pantheon - there is one group of deities with many names. Mortals only 'experience' their gods when in the presence of an Avatar, and Avatars are hand-tailored to appear however the god wants (those are your racial deities - no-one ever sees the real gods until they die... maybe).
And even if some mortal really did see Sune and Hanali arguing somewhere, all they would have really saw was two separate Avatars doing precisely what her faithful expected them to do. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 09 Feb 2012 16:28:21 |
|
|
|
Lirdolin
Learned Scribe
Germany
198 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 06:08:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
Hanali Celanil and Sune.
Hanali Celanil and Sune have been described in the past as having intense rivalries; therefore, beign SEPARATE deities. Now, Sune is being described as being Hanali Celanil when visiting Arvandor. That totally goes against all past lore and should definitely be rectified.
Although I'm not a huge fan of the Hanali= Sune(or Sehaine=Selûne, Talos= Gruumsh)situation, I would guess that either Hanali was sufficently weakend in the Wailing Years (or ToT, the Dawn Catalysm...)to be subsuemed into Sune (and she kept the appearance for her elven believers) or that Hanali was actually Sune from start on but that the rivalries between them were actually a rivalry between the two racial cleregies who projected it onto 'their two goddesses'.
The whole human faerunian pantheon is actully a group composed from a whole range of sources. Maybe the elves first introduced Sune/Hanali faith to the realms and the humans thought that a love goddess is a great idea, who knows?
For that matter the mortal believers might still not believe that (god) = (god). A human Talos worshipper for example who hears someone says that his exalted storm god is actually 'the stinking orc demon Gruumsh' will probably split the heretics skull.
Gruumsh probably isn't even an orc god as most orcs arrived via the Orcgate. Maybe he's Kozar or an even older god of destruction?
Kara-Turs Amaterasu might now only be an female aspect of Amaunator? And Mulhorands survivors in High Imaskar who still pray to Horus-Re might now be sending prayers to Amaunator as well? Maybe some of the Chessentans call Talos/Gruumsh by the name of Zeus and named Tempus 'Zeus' son Heracles'?
Marcustay beat me to this explanation
Although I would'nt say that there is no elven (or other) pantheon. The pantheons are the 'clubs' the gods belong to and some belong to more than one club (Sune probably thanks Ao for having multiple avatars so she can hang out with both clubs at the same time ). Some 'clubs'/pantheons are more ancient like the Seldarin and some are relativly new like the human pantheon that still evolves from different sources. |
Edited by - Lirdolin on 09 Feb 2012 22:11:28 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 16:40:56
|
Right, and just as us mortals (RW) like to frequent several clubs (pubs), we usually have at least one that is our 'hangout'.
And we all know some folks who like to 'bounce around' a lot, so there should be gods like that as well (for instance, I think Loki is one of those, along with Monkey... maybe 4e Bane, etc).
And if you take into account that a deity can be in many places at once, then of course it makes sense that there is a separate 'deity' in each of those pantheons - they are just different aspects (Avatars).
Gods can quite literally talk to themselves.. or other things...
And now I am picturing Cyric like Jack Sparrow in At World's End. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 09 Feb 2012 16:41:15 |
|
|
|
Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 17:34:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
Here's a HUGE one:
Hanali Celanil and Sune.
Hanali Celanil and Sune have been described in the past as having intense rivalries; therefore, beign SEPARATE deities. Now, Sune is being described as being Hanali Celanil when visiting Arvandor. That totally goes against all past lore and should definitely be rectified.
I prefer Garen Thal's explanation found in this thread called 2008 Monday Musings:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11601&whichpage=1&SearchTerms=Monday, |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
|
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 18:06:23
|
I forgot about Garen Thal's excellent series! Good find, Bakra.
I would combine it with my own musings, however (just a little tweak).
Venus (Aphrodite) found Hanali, and after combining with her, became Sune. Their two pantheons hangout in the same Plane (see my above post). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 18:44:30
|
I largely side with Brian (Garen Thal) on this--I think Sune and Hanali didn't actually *merge* but joined in a very close alliance for mutual protection and advancement. Elves still call Hanali by that name and humans refer to Sune, but the two goddesses are so closely linked that dogma has evolved to speak of them as the same goddess.
I see the Spellplague and its aftermath as a low-point in religious following. Nothing like an apocalyptic cataclysm to break the back of the church, right? The gods faced a direct assault in the form of the Spellplague, and their power base was weakening as their worshipers lost faith. Many had to pool their resources simply to survive this onslaught on two fronts.
And humanoids definitely refer to gods by the names they know from their racial background. In my games, this is especially prevalent, but I sneak in references in my books to elves referring to Sehanine or Hanali, and at least one of my novels makes it clear that the humans of Westgate still refer to Talos rather than Gruumsh.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2012 : 20:16:26
|
| I don't have a huge problem with deities being the same entity. That makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways. The thing that gets me is the apparent certainty with which WotC went about it for 4E. I don't recall the exact language used, but it seemed like a sudden shift from entirely separate beings to the same god with even the secondary name/identity starting to get dropped. If anything, there should be more names as each culture adapts a god to their theological view. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Contest: Create Forgotten Realmslore!
