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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
188 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 06:36:38
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Most people tak about the Grey box when it comes to the Realms and I was just wondering what makes it better (or worse) than the 2e boxed set, which is what I've got.
Thanks!
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 07:00:27
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Scraps of the Forgotten Realms were already briefly featured in various articles Ed had written, but the legendary Old Grey Box, TSR's FR0 Forgotten Realms Campaign Set was where the Realms was first introduced to the world in all its fantastic glory. It was, incidentally, also the finest and most comprehensive campaign setting TSR had yet published, far overshadowing Greyhawk and Dragonlance, and it invented the format used by all campaign settings published afterwards (including all the later-edition Realms Campaign Setting products).
FR0 does contain a great deal of lore, locations, characters, events, rules, and items which were not reprinted in the 2E FRCS, although many of these were eventually updated or replaced by 2E equivalents in other 2E Realms products. 2E Realmslore kept accumulating and eventually surpassed the volume of 1E Realmslore, FRCS plus whatever other Realms sources you use are probably all you need to run a "complete" Realms setting. FR0 wouldn't likely be worth purchasing to use as much of a game supplement unless you wanted to "roll back" your Realms to 1E's circa-1356DR timeline; it also contained a few maps which were never republished. (FR0 is however an immensely valuable nostalgia/collector item, and a good-condition box can command imperial prices.) |
[/Ayrik] |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 12:24:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
Most people tak about the Grey box when it comes to the Realms and I was just wondering what makes it better (or worse) than the 2e boxed set, which is what I've got.
Thanks!
It isn't so much that it is "better" (although my opinion is just that), but that it is somewhat different than the 2E box. The OGB really sets the Realms up as Ed had them envisioned and provides a ton of detail (and some great maps) with the more gritty atmosphere that was 1E. The 2E box is actually not tons different, but it is post Time of Troubles (a TSR invention to move the game to 2E) and thus for those of us who like the original (ie non-Cyric) Realms, just isn't quite right. Having said that, my second favorite all-time Realms supplement is the post Time of Troubles Forgotten Realms Adventures book, which is quite spectacular. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 17:02:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
Most people tak about the Grey box when it comes to the Realms and I was just wondering what makes it better (or worse) than the 2e boxed set, which is what I've got.
I'd agree with others, for the most part.
The OGB version was pretty bare bones, and felt a little dark. It felt far more dangerous than what it evolved into with the novels and 2E. TSR had this policy that evil should "never win", and so a lot of the dark, evil, really truly villainous stuff never made it from Ed's original world into 2E.
So it's partly a matter of tone. The 2E Realms had a -lot- of stuff going on, but overall the Realms took on a positive and happier tone with 2E, and your 2E box reflects that (the Time of Troubles happened, which was probably the "darkest" thing; and you'll see various novel characters written up in the 2E box).
The OGB was more neutral, the tone was darker. The famous characters we all know now from novels hadn't been published at that time, so there weren't really any character writeups.
Thinking about this critically, I half-wonder if the difference would even be noticable if you started with the 2E box and then went backwards.
I'm not sure, really. I'm absolutely not saying that anything in 2E "spoiled" the Realms, because I don't believe that at all. But I do think that the 2E period had a "lightness" to it. That lightness was offset by the AMAZING supplements published in 2E, so if you wanted a darker campaign you could use the 1E box and just pick and choose from the really great stuff (Volo guides, the 2E "Adventures" hardback, etc.) and skip other stuff. Back then, people were used to Greyhawk and making their own homebrews, so it wasn't just a big deal to ignore some supplements / books if you wanted.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 15 Jan 2012 17:06:55 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 17:23:20
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OGB felt more like the allusive 'Points of Light' setting the 4e team was after then 4e FR ever did. Therise covered that. The 2e box made it more into a 'Greyhawk clone'.
And I'm not being insulting by saying that - GH was my first love. Its just that GH had mostly 'shiny' places with lots of dark spots shoved into corners. Thats how 2e FR felt (as opposed to how Therise described 1e).
1e was 'Gritty' ( ).
Sorry... just had to go there. 
EDIT: And just reading what Apex said, which is true as well. A lot of the 'color' was washed-out. Ed uses a lot of descriptive text when describing everything in minute detail, and by trying to pack more info into the 2e box, they had to distill-out a lot of the adjectives. I'm not saying the 2e box wasn't great as well, it was just a wee-bit less flavorful. I would always go to the 2e box for info first, and if I needed to know more, I would check the OGB to see if there was any little tidbits the 2eB left out (which was the case about 50% of the time). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Jan 2012 17:30:03 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 17:34:26
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In my opinion both have their advantages. The feel and tone of the Grey box is different from all the later Realms products, far more Leiber and Thieves World than later. It’s a world for humans, fighters and thieves. As the world was developed elves and magic became more dominant. The information is loose and full of open possibilities and unanswered questions. You can read it again and again and still find small details and things that have never been developed or that was changed with time. But, and to me this is important, a lot of the information is organized encyclopedic, not according to region or theme. For a person like me, that really doesn’t like checking maps that much (except for the Fonstad atlas I have hardly used a map from a realms product), it can be a pain to gather information for a specific region. The 2nd ed. set has a somewhat different feel, but it is better organized and easier to use if you don’t know the Realms beforehand.
Other things; well there are rules for dragon fighting, information on the classes that disappear with 2nd ed, npc's not included in the latter set and a whole bunch of information about magical books and tomes that was first printed in Dragon. And the adventure included is a lot better than the one in the 2nd ed. box I should mention.
In all honesty, I am not sure which one I would keep if I could only choose one.
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe
188 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 18:52:04
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I see. I think I'll pick it up just for comparison to my 2e box. They can be found every cheap ($20 complete and in good condition) at a local book store in my hometown.
Also, I've been trying to scale down the amount of realms products I use in game and would love to just use one solid source, and this sounds like it could be it as it is even less fluffy than the 2e box haha.
And heres a question. As far as realms fluff and fiction, the story lines I am most familiar with are the Drizzt novels, as I've read every one of them. I wonder at which book do the drizzt novels transition from 1e to 2e and then from 2e to 3e? I've never really wondered about the exact years until now. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 19:02:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozreth
I see. I think I'll pick it up just for comparison to my 2e box. They can be found every cheap ($20 complete and in good condition) at a local book store in my hometown.
Also, I've been trying to scale down the amount of realms products I use in game and would love to just use one solid source, and this sounds like it could be it as it is even less fluffy than the 2e box haha.
And heres a question. As far as realms fluff and fiction, the story lines I am most familiar with are the Drizzt novels, as I've read every one of them. I wonder at which book do the drizzt novels transition from 1e to 2e and then from 2e to 3e? I've never really wondered about the exact years until now.
This website HERE can answer that for you. 
Elaine Cunningham's Windwalker is a book that happens during the transition, and is an explanation for the change in drow magic.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 15 Jan 2012 19:05:15 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 19:42:27
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| I like them both. I started with the grey box, but probably referenced the 2E version more often over the years. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 19:50:12
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| I've never seen 1e realms so..... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 19:55:57
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| The Current Clack section from the Grey Box is several pages of absolutely awesome adventure hooks and news from around the Realms. One of my favorite sections of those books. I've always wondered, considering there is two starter adventures situated in Myth Drannor, do you think Ed envisioned that elven ruin as a place anyone could adventure? Or was it his vision of it being death to most parties? The danger of the place seemed to have changed between the gray box and Myth Drannor adventure guide released later. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1281 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 20:42:06
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| I love the Grey Box set. But I also love FRA, the hardcover book. In particular, I've always loved Saerloon, so seeing it detailed as it was in that book was amazing. It's too tough to call. I like Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul and despise Cyric and everything they did with him and the dead 3 during the ToT and post ToT; so probably Grey Box Set era is better for me. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 00:55:59
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| I second the vote for 2E Forgotten Realms Adventures. Perhaps my favourite Realms product of all time, although it was intended more as a supplemental "2E update" for FR0; it added copious quantities of new lore but was not quite enough, used alone, to play within the Realms setting. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 00:59:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I second the vote for 2E Forgotten Realms Adventures. Perhaps my favourite Realms product of all time, although it was intended more as a supplemental "2E update" for FR0; it added copious quantities of new lore but was not quite enough, used alone, to play within the Realms setting.
The best part about Adventures is that you can pretty easily ignore the ToT stuff and use it exclusively for the OGB Realms if you want.
EDIT: I had to replace my original FRA last year (I still have it, but it is in sad shape), and when I bought a so-called vg copy on ebay, what came was a mint never been cracked book. Talk about a pleasant surprise. |
Edited by - Apex on 16 Jan 2012 01:11:44 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 16:43:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
The Current Clack section from the Grey Box is several pages of absolutely awesome adventure hooks and news from around the Realms. One of my favorite sections of those books.
I think this is probably the best, most representative Realms material ever published: it shows, more vividly than snapshot place descriptions and more concisely than novels, what adventurous life and happenings in Faerûn are like. If the published Realms had been developed on this model it would have been quite different and incomparably better.quote:
I've always wondered, considering there is two starter adventures situated in Myth Drannor, do you think Ed envisioned that elven ruin as a place anyone could adventure? Or was it his vision of it being death to most parties?
Death to most parties, especially those who took it lightly as a treasure trove, didn't prepare, ventured in separate from any kind of network of friends and allies. Marimmar's fate in Spellfire shows us this.
The Old Grey Box is the closest we have to the Realms-in-itself, while the 1993 set has been through a few of the subsequent removes of dilution and degradation -- add-ons, design-by-committee, entropic short-term novel cash grabs, rules artefacts, the whole lot. The best thing about it is the excellent Shadowdale write-up, and I wouldn't like to do without either. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 16:48:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
...The Old Grey Box is the closest we have to the Realms-in-itself, while the 1993 set has been through a few of the subsequent removes of dilution and degradation -- add-ons, design-by-committee, entropic short-term novel cash grabs, rules artefacts, the whole lot. The best thing about it is the excellent Shadowdale write-up, and I wouldn't like to do without either.
That's so true, the Shadowdale insert is excellent in the revised 2E box. In some ways, it helps describe what a "dale" is all about.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 05:10:32
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| The Old Grey Box was published before I was born sooooo. The 2e box set was the first realms thing I read (Other than novels) They don't seem that different to me. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2012 : 14:00:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
...The Old Grey Box is the closest we have to the Realms-in-itself, while the 1993 set has been through a few of the subsequent removes of dilution and degradation -- add-ons, design-by-committee, entropic short-term novel cash grabs, rules artefacts, the whole lot. The best thing about it is the excellent Shadowdale write-up, and I wouldn't like to do without either.
That's so true, the Shadowdale insert is excellent in the revised 2E box. In some ways, it helps describe what a "dale" is all about.
The "Dales" were my favorite location when I was introduced to the Realms. I distinctly remember the cover art for the Daggerdale module, love it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_of_Daggerdale
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2012 : 07:28:17
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I got the OGB when it just came out; at the time, I'd been playing (A)D&D for about two years, first unrelated adventures, then some adventures tied together by a campaign city published in an RPG magazine. And then, there was this box which described an entire world, with vivid locales and even more vivid characters. And then there were supplements (Waterdeep and the North! The Savage Frontier!). Because of that excitement, I prefer the OGB. However... I took another look at both, and at my collection, and I'd say that the 2E box was a better gaming product, and provided more bang for the buck.
Don't get me wrong - I loved the OGB and still do! But a good part of the DM's sourcebook of the realms was a reprint of some of Ed's earlier Dragon Magazine articles (not that I knew at the time, though - regular supplies of Dragon Magazine were not a feature in my part of the world). The organisation of the geographical guide to the Realms (purely alphabetical in OGB vs. Regional chapters in 2E box) was better and easier to use in the 2E box.
So - the mind says 2E, but the heart (and part of the mind) says OGB. |
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AD&D 1e or 2e FR boxed set? Which do you prefer?
