| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 16:24:25
|
quote:
I love Ed Greenwood, I enjoy his writing, and I enjoy the way he thinks, but I do not go around saying everything he ever did was perfect and he is a better author then Shakespeare.
Blasphemy!  |
Edited by - Imp on 06 Jan 2012 16:24:59 |
 |
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 16:40:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
How a 3e topic became an anti-4e thread is beyond me. We never had to worry about what we liked or didn't like in 1e-3e, and yet if we voice an opinion on 4e we are being admonished for it. I just don't get it - something has definitely changed, and it isn't just the rules or the setting.
Markus, maybe you didn't get the memo (Nancy was supposed to pass it around the office) but 4E and espically FR 4E is wrongbadfun! 
It became about 4E (or anti-4E) because someone didn't really stick to the thread, as I see below.
To get back on topic and in case I hadn't already said so, I like Melegaunt the best. He was crafty, not out-right Evil, and I generally liked the guy througout the Return of the Archwizard's trilogy. Besides, he set everything into motion and put Galaeron on an interesting path (I like it that he used the Shadoweave, but didn't necessarily want to). |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 06:57:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Oh, Wooly, so you like the stuff that is 10-20 years old, basically.
Well, I can certainly understand an appreciation of the Classics!
*shrugs* I've seriously disliked some books from that era, too. There have been two books that made me so angry I wanted to throw them across the room, and one of them falls into that older timeframe.
Ha! I can totally relate to that!  Though mine's worse than throwing them. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 07:28:33
|
| The Forgotten Realms ARE greater than Shakespeare ;) |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8040 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 08:33:18
|
| Well, Shakespeare is probably a better rapper than Ed. I think he was a higher level bard, personally. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 08:59:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
There is 0 possibility in my mind that fervent worshipers of a goddess of Entropy could build something lasting like an empire...
Unless they're just using each other, which happens to be the case of Telamont and Shar. Telamont may not publicly denounce Shar, but as evidenced by his actions in TW, he's firm enough to contradict her (supposed) wishes. It's also worth noting that Telamont himself confessed that he's seen the hole of nothingness, stood at its precipice, but never dived into it. This implies that no matter what, he can never be a true Sharran.
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Aumvar the Undying and other Netherese descendents/survivors probably do not consider the Empire of Shade to be the "True Netheril" and citizens under their rule might feel the same way, too.
Like Szass tam completely ruling Thay without competing Zulkirs (and they ONLY worship Bane when I view the realms as being polytheistic throughout)
Good point. If Aumvor has the motivation and the army, I guess he may challenge Telamont's empire. But I don't see that happening in the near future...
Larloch may be annoyed by the Shadovar, specially that they're bringing with them the name Netheril---the place, era, and home which had been a significant part of his life. However, he's largely preoccupied with matters no one (except Ed) really knows about. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 09:19:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I have often been told that if you have nothing to contribute, then don't contribute.
Neither do I. That's why when others mention they don't want a certain topic or characters which the OP is all about, sometimes I feel as though they just want to find trouble, either consciously or unconsciously.
I might be guilty of this before... At times I couldn't stop myself from commenting about Manshoon's and the elves' annoying qualities in the threads that are specifically dedicated to them. I learned my lesson long ago, and moved on since then... May others follow the same. I get it that not everyone likes the Shades, but they don't have to profess such dislike (sometimes vehemently) in a Shade-centric thread.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Why did so many here feel it was necessary to complain about Netheril in a thread that was not designed to do so? I do not like Peas (in fact, I LOATHE peas), but I do not look for pro-pea sites and comment on their apparent lack of taste.
Pretty much my point above. Minus the peas.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I know what I don't like, but if someone else likes it, then fine. I think Dennis genuinely likes everything about the setting, be it 3e or 4e lore (and the Shades ARE 3e lore, regardless of what anyone may think), so just leave him be. He does not come-off like a WotC cheerleader, so I have no problem with his likes and dislikes, and even try to contribute positively when possible.
As I said, Dennis tries really hard to be an active part of this community, and I commend HIM for that. I do not have to like everything he likes to treat him with respect.
I do like the setting, that's a fact that is unlikely to change. Otherwise, why would I spend precious minutes (out of my literally golden time) in this site?!
We all want the Realms for different reasons---reasons that may at times be contradictory. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 07 Jan 2012 17:19:43 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 09:26:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
To get back on topic and in case I hadn't already said so, I like Melegaunt the best. He was crafty, not out-right Evil, and I generally liked the guy througout the Return of the Archwizard's trilogy. Besides, he set everything into motion and put Galaeron on an interesting path (I like it that he used the Shadoweave, but didn't necessarily want to).
Thank you for getting back on topic!
When I checked this thread earlier and found out it mutated to 3, I thought I would see a lot of on-topic replies... Oh, well...
I like Melegaunt, too. When Vala kept on calling him "Great One," he explicitly told her to stop it. A petty archmage would have encouraged her, but Melegaunt is not petty. Business is business for him, or rather, a mission is a mission for him.
I don't recall though that he said he didn't like to use the Shadow Weave. Is that your own opinion, or did I miss something in Return of the Archwizards? |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2012 : 17:07:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
To get back on topic and in case I hadn't already said so, I like Melegaunt the best. He was crafty, not out-right Evil, and I generally liked the guy througout the Return of the Archwizard's trilogy. Besides, he set everything into motion and put Galaeron on an interesting path (I like it that he used the Shadoweave, but didn't necessarily want to).
Thank you for getting back on topic!
When I checked this thread earlier and found out it mutated to 3, I thought I would see a lot of on-topic replies... Oh, well...
I like Melegaunt, too. When Vala kept on calling him "Great One," he explicitly told her to stop it. A petty archmage would have encouraged her, but Melegaunt is not petty. Business is business for him, or rather, a mission is a mission for him.
I don't recall though that he said he didn't like to use the Shadow Weave. Is that your own opinion, or did I miss something in Return of the Archwizards?
Galaeron at first -loved- using the "new" shadow weave, like a kid with an awesome new toy that no one else had (except the Netheril mages). Later, he begins to understand its evil origins and becomes worried that it will corrupt him and turn him evil. It was meant to reflect the rules at the time, which stated that once you started using the Shadow Weave you couldn't go back and just use the regular Weave of Mystra, which became true for him over time. But at first for Galaeron, he started coming into conflict with his shadowself (in the books, it was a lack of kindness and compassion, an inner battle of sorts); emotional coldness started to replace his empathy. He also lost the ability to enter Reverie meditation, which for an elf was a serious sign of corruption. And it's Melegaunt, interestingly, who I think ends up warning him to not over-use the Shadow Weave and lose himself to coldness.
|
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 07 Jan 2012 17:26:22 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2012 : 03:13:19
|
Paul has always focused on Brennus and Rivalen. Hopefully, in Cycle of Night, he would provide more novel time to the other princes, specially Dethud, Aglarel, and Lamorak. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4491 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2012 : 04:21:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I don't recall though that he said he didn't like to use the Shadow Weave. Is that your own opinion, or did I miss something in Return of the Archwizards?
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
But at first for Galaeron, he started coming into conflict with his shadowself (in the books, it was a lack of kindness and compassion, an inner battle of sorts); emotional coldness started to replace his empathy. He also lost the ability to enter Reverie meditation, which for an elf was a serious sign of corruption. And it's Melegaunt, interestingly, who I think ends up warning him to not over-use the Shadow Weave and lose himself to coldness.
Yea, and I think he recalled his "Shadow self" as some sort of evil shadow vampire or some such. Melegaunt had been telling him not to over use like a drug dealer telling his clients to take it easy, thus using reverse psychology to get them to use it more and more. The very fact that he was fighting his "shadow self" was drawing him close to corruption. I believe it wasn't until his confrontation with this Shadow Self (and successful control of) that he realized fighting it just made it worse. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2012 : 04:46:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I don't recall though that he said he didn't like to use the Shadow Weave. Is that your own opinion, or did I miss something in Return of the Archwizards?
Yea, and I think he recalled his "Shadow self" as some sort of evil shadow vampire or some such. Melegaunt had been telling him not to over use like a drug dealer telling his clients to take it easy, thus using reverse psychology to get them to use it more and more. The very fact that he was fighting his "shadow self" was drawing him close to corruption. I believe it wasn't until his confrontation with this Shadow Self (and successful control of) that he realized fighting it just made it worse.
My mistake. I thought you were referring to Melegaunt not wanting to use the Shadow Weave. That's why I was surprised.
As for Galaeron, yes, I know about his reluctance to use the SW. His "friends" even discouraged him to do so, but he was "addicted" to it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 09:18:09
|
| I would like to see the appearance of Opus/Selunnara, too, as i've posted many times before. But the game creators don't seem as keen on creating good places, only apocalyptic evil environments. They must be more popular and appealing to consumers. |
|
|
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 09:19:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I would like to see the appearance of Opus/Selunnara, too, as i've posted many times before. But the game creators don't seem as keen on creating good places, only apocalyptic evil environments. They must be more popular and appealing to consumers.
The PCs must have something to fight. |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 09:33:33
|
| PCs can be Netherese loyal to the City of Shade people fighting the Selunnarans = ) |
|
|
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 10:08:59
|
| PCs are the good guys more often than not. |
|
|
|
Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 12:17:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imp
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I would like to see the appearance of Opus/Selunnara, too, as i've posted many times before. But the game creators don't seem as keen on creating good places, only apocalyptic evil environments. They must be more popular and appealing to consumers.
The PCs must have something to fight.
PCs should also have something to fight for. If there's nothing the good guys are trying to save, why should they bother? If the land the bad guys want to conquer is just Genericville, why risk one's life to stop them?
And for that matter, what do the bad guys want there? Mr NPC the Shopkeeper's prize collection of ten-foot poles? Do they have any real reason for wanting to take over?
If there isn't a heroic young queen there whose land must be stopped before she can muster the armies of righteousness to crush their ambitions... why are they even trying so hard?
They could just walk into Genericville the same way the adventurers do, if there's nothing really significant about it.
And the adventurers have no real reason to stop them, if there's nothing there worth protecting, no source of local goodness that must be defended.
Oh, sure, you could adventure just to get that +4 Longsword of Killstabbitty. But are you even one of the good guys anymore, if you're only in it for loot and levels? |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
|
|
|
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 12:36:24
|
I see you don't play very often.
Also, chill out, miss. No need getting so cynical. |
Edited by - Imp on 09 Jan 2012 12:37:38 |
|
|
|
Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 12:54:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imp
I see you don't play very often.
Also, chill out, miss. No need getting so cynical.
I see you like to be condescending.
Also, I don't think it's cynicism to want my brave heroes to be heroic for more reasons than gold pieces. Unless we're talking Bizarro World cynicism, in which 'gallant heroes venture forth to protect the innocent' is cynical instead of idealistic... |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
|
|
|
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 13:21:13
|
| Please, show me where I said that the PCs should fight for no reason (other than gold). |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4703 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 13:45:07
|
There are different styles of play. Levels also matter.
Saving a Princess in my view is just as important as saving a kidnapped peasant.
Are you only a hero if you rescue someone important for a reward of gold or maybe marriage or saving another that only reward is a plate of soup?
Each set there own values on what is a good, enjoyable game. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
|
|
|
Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 13:50:23
|
| Exactly. Don't diss me for caring about the action instead of it's motivations. I have holy right to enjoy fighting, no matter the reason. |
Edited by - Imp on 09 Jan 2012 13:51:30 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 14:00:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I would like to see the appearance of Opus/Selunnara, too, as i've posted many times before. But the game creators don't seem as keen on creating good places, only apocalyptic evil environments. They must be more popular and appealing to consumers.
That's always a possibility. Though as I mentioned in some related threads, if Wizads decides to rid of Shade, or at the very least, cripple them so they would not be as big a threat as they are now, I suppose the "crippling" would happen from within. The princes backstabbing each other... Brennus seeking outside aid to kill Rivalen, even if the price is for him to divulge to that outside entity some crucial information about Shade's army and strategies... |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36974 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 14:59:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I would like to see the appearance of Opus/Selunnara, too, as i've posted many times before. But the game creators don't seem as keen on creating good places, only apocalyptic evil environments. They must be more popular and appealing to consumers.
I think bringing Selunnara back would offer a lot more intrigue and possibilities. I was disappointed that they presented that as an option and then didn't do it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:15:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I would like to see the appearance of Opus/Selunnara, too, as i've posted many times before. But the game creators don't seem as keen on creating good places, only apocalyptic evil environments. They must be more popular and appealing to consumers.
I think bringing Selunnara back would offer a lot more intrigue and possibilities. I was disappointed that they presented that as an option and then didn't do it.
I would prefer Selūnarra to remain where it is. I think it's entirely more interesting as a *potential* factor, rather than something that has already been used. In fact, I would rather have the conflict between Selūnarra and Shade being something subtle and, perhaps, waged in secret -- carried out by agents travelling back and forth from the Gates of the Moon. There's plenty of roleplaying opportunities, and it also keeps Selūnarra firmly in the Gates of the Moon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:17:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I would like to see the appearance of Opus/Selunnara, too, as i've posted many times before. But the game creators don't seem as keen on creating good places, only apocalyptic evil environments. They must be more popular and appealing to consumers.
I think bringing Selunnara back would offer a lot more intrigue and possibilities. I was disappointed that they presented that as an option and then didn't do it.
I suppose it is because they want the new Netheril Empire to expand more
Selunnara, if introduced, would most likely hinder that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 11:19:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
I would like to see the appearance of Opus/Selunnara, too, as i've posted many times before. But the game creators don't seem as keen on creating good places, only apocalyptic evil environments. They must be more popular and appealing to consumers.
I think bringing Selunnara back would offer a lot more intrigue and possibilities. I was disappointed that they presented that as an option and then didn't do it.
I suppose it is because they want the new Netheril Empire to expand more
Selunnara, if introduced, would most likely hinder that.
 It does seem that way sometimes doesn't it. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 14:23:35
|
And that may be a good thing for the fans of the Shadovar... Or/and for Paul's. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 16:29:11
|
No interesting Empire doesn't have interesting enemies.
Netheril would be more intersting if it were wracked with some strife from Selunnara, Aumvor the Undying and Larloch opposing them as the heirs to the title "Netherese". I never got the impression the original Netheril was a unified Empire but more a series of city states. Its not like Selunnara would topple the already established Shade Netheril, they would be unestablished and perhaps less powerful magically...but still there combating them.
It more seems like they don't like having bastions of good anywhere in the realms, anymore. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 17:12:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
It more seems like they don't like having bastions of good anywhere in the realms, anymore.
Maybe because more and more people prefer the bad guys. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Favorite Royalty
