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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 20:03:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Exactly, Wooly Rupert!
What did you think of "The Twilight War", Wooly?
Have not read it. I rather dislike the Shades, and I'm no fan of Paul S Kemp's fiction. I am rather much in the minority, on that last point. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 20:05:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Exactly, Wooly Rupert!
What did you think of "The Twilight War", Wooly?
Have not read it. I rather dislike the Shades, and I'm no fan of Paul S Kemp's fiction. I am rather much in the minority, on that last point.
Oh, that's a bummer! It is really an awesome series, that has the most "Shade Royalty screen-time" of any series!
I know you also don't like Ed Greenwood's 'Forgotten Realms' fiction... who do you like, Wooley?
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Edited by - Lady Swiftstrike Assassin on 05 Jan 2012 20:07:00 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 20:59:38
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I'd argue that it's certainly possible to really enjoy a novel (or trilogy) but still dislike various characters or plots in terms of how they affect the campaign world and overall game. I really enjoyed Kemp's novels, but still immensely dislike Netheril and the shade princes for what they do to the game world. Incidentally, having read the Return of the Archwizards trilogy, I'd say it was okay but not the best of the Realms. Kemp took them and made them better, but I still disliked the whole concept from the beginning.
Same with Smedman's Lady Penitent trilogy, I enjoyed the novels a lot but hated what it meant for Eilistraee and her faith in the Realms game world.
Additionally, it seems strange to think that people shouldn't have an opinion (or share it) if they've only read the game supplements (or only the novels, vice-versa). Once it's canon, no matter how it gets injected into the setting, it's fair game for discussion IMO. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 05 Jan 2012 21:05:45 |
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 21:37:13
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Totally, Therise!
The New Empire of Shade, Netheril, is composed of richly detailed, dark and gritty villains that have helped to shape the Realms in such a fantastic way, that it's hard to even begin to describe the manifold positive aspects that they bring to the setting! Whether it's making Cormyr and Myth Drannor shine more brightly, *finally* giving Sembia identity, or establishing a *real* Heartlands counter-force to the dynamic and powerful protagonists of the Realms (We Chosen few!).
I can't wait to read the next run of Paul S. Kemp's 'Forgotten Realms' work, The Cycle of Night! Bring on the Shades! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 21:53:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Totally, Therise!
The New Empire of Shade, Netheril, is composed of richly detailed, dark and gritty villains that have helped to shape the Realms in such a fantastic way, that it's hard to even begin to describe the manifold positive aspects that they bring to the setting!...
Well, that's not quite what I meant. To me, Netheril is a big clunky plot device that not only diminishes ancient Netheril but killed everything interesting about the Bedine, Sembia, and locales of ancient ruins in the northern desert. What it replaced or changed was better by far than what's there now. I also think the princes are all pretty silly and overpowered. Sorry to have such a different view, but I don't think anything about new Netheril is positive.
That said, I'm fond of Kemp's novels and will enjoy the next trilogy.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 22:17:07
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Oh, that's weird, Therise! The Return of Netheril totally jives with 1e-3e lore; the designers did an incredible job of really taking some dangling plot threads and weaving them into a fantastic tapestry of storytelling and lore! I think it's really awesome that the presence of Shade *encourages* further exploration of the Anauroch region's ancient empires... the Shades are doing it, too, so the PC's had better hurry! I accepted the Bedine in my campaigns, and some of my PC's had some really fun interactions with them, but I never really liked the idea of a quasi-Bedoin culture in the middle of a basically pseudo-European region. I took some liberties with the canon presentation of the Bedine in my campaign to give them a more, 'lost tribes of ancient Anauria' mystique; luckily the fantastic work of the designers doesn't interfere with my use of the Bedine... it EXPANDS my use of the Bedine by giving them an incredible backdrop to play against! Will those Bedine that remain reclaim their Anaurian roots, and rally against the oppressors? Will the Bedine join forces with Netheril, blending their own unique developments of Netherese-Anaurian magic to help restore an empire not lost to the sands of time?
(I don't know what you liked about Sembia... it was purposely underdetailed for years... Not much to like, when so little was said... "Darn those greedy merchants!")
Also, the inhabitants of Thultanthar (and the other Enclaves)are by no stretch of the imagination overpowered! Telemont and the Princes are ancient Netherese Arcanists! They could shake the world before Elminster was even born... and they kept at it! It would seem awfully silly if they suddenly *lost* power!
(If I need a dramatically overpowered bunch of folks, I'll tap Larloch, Halaster or the Chosen of Mystra.
"Alassra, quick, we need to take out this dangerous menace!"
"Agreed, Elminster! Quick, use your deus-ex-machina cannon!"
"SILVER FIRE, GOOOOOO!"
Me, I'm ok with a little deus-ex-machina now and again!)
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But yeah, the Princes of Shade are a totally awesome addition to the Forgotten Realms, and have been a great way to expand the backdrop against which her protagonists play!
To the Designers of the Forgotten Realms setting, I say,
THANK YOU! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 22:19:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Exactly, Wooly Rupert!
What did you think of "The Twilight War", Wooly?
Have not read it. I rather dislike the Shades, and I'm no fan of Paul S Kemp's fiction. I am rather much in the minority, on that last point.
Oh, that's a bummer! It is really an awesome series, that has the most "Shade Royalty screen-time" of any series!
I know you also don't like Ed Greenwood's 'Forgotten Realms' fiction... who do you like, Wooley?
I'm a huge fan of Elaine's, and I love the Kate Novak & Jeff Grubb books, as well. I've enjoyed a lot more FR authors than I've disliked, and with at least one author (Troy Denning), I've liked some stuff and disliked other stuff.
Paul S Kemp's FR stuff does not work for me, and neither does most of Ed's. For Ed, though, I did really enjoy Cormyr, the Waterdeep book he co-wrote with Elaine, and Elminster's Daughter. I don't dislike the rest of Ed's stuff, nor Paul's, it just doesn't grab me.
I have read the Sembia books and the Erevis Cale trilogy, so I do feel I've given Paul a fair try. I believe he also wrote one of the War of the Spider Queen books, as well, but that's another series I find myself in the minority on. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2012 : 22:21:23
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Oh, Wooly, so you like the stuff that is 10-20 years old, basically.
Well, I can certainly understand an appreciation of the Classics! |
Edited by - Lady Swiftstrike Assassin on 05 Jan 2012 22:43:11 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 00:10:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Don't mind the haters. Most of them haven't read the novels, anyway.
How, exactly, did you form this rather critical judgement, Dennis?
I know I've only said that I was largely indifferent. But that indifference to the subject of the Shades was brought about by what I've read about them. I don't "hate" them, nor do I like them. If and when new fiction about the Shade Enclave is released, my opinion may sway to one or the other side, though that will only be because of what I have, again, read about them.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Jan 2012 00:13:40 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 00:13:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I usually ignore people who express their dislike/hate towards the Shadovar. 'Tis better than engaging in a pointless argument.
So you won't engage in conversation with non-Shade fans simply because they make pointless arguments about their reasons for not liking them?
Perhaps you should try to consider that maybe other scribes have interests in the Realms that don't otherwise include the Shades? And that their own individual passions can, and probably will, rival that same passion you hold for the Shadovar.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 01:41:44
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I can see Dennis' perspective, too! I *really, really, love* the new 4e Forgotten Realms, but I've noticed on these boards that I'm in the minority!
I've been doing some searches for things Spellplague-related, and I *certainly* won't contribute to *those* scrolls! Sometimes it's just best to avoid a conversation!
I've also noticed that a lot of scribes here have completely boycotted the new material... which kinda' lends some credit to Dennis' perspective.
But anyway, Thanks for making this the best site for Realmslore on the Web, even if it comes with a bitter-pill of anti-Realms fervor! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 04:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Oh, Wooly, so you like the stuff that is 10-20 years old, basically.
Well, I can certainly understand an appreciation of the Classics!
*shrugs* I've seriously disliked some books from that era, too. There have been two books that made me so angry I wanted to throw them across the room, and one of them falls into that older timeframe. There are more recent books that I like; it's just that for my money, Elaine and the Novak/Grubb duo can't be beat. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Jan 2012 04:15:44 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 04:14:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
I can see Dennis' perspective, too! I *really, really, love* the new 4e Forgotten Realms, but I've noticed on these boards that I'm in the minority!
I've been doing some searches for things Spellplague-related, and I *certainly* won't contribute to *those* scrolls! Sometimes it's just best to avoid a conversation!
I've also noticed that a lot of scribes here have completely boycotted the new material... which kinda' lends some credit to Dennis' perspective.
But anyway, Thanks for making this the best site for Realmslore on the Web, even if it comes with a bitter-pill of anti-Realms fervor!
I think it safe to say that no one on this Forgotten Realms forum exhibits "anti-Realms" fervor. Disliking some aspects or developments of a setting is not the same as disliking the entire setting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 04:40:00
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| Well, I see a lot of 'hate' for the current iteration of the Realms on these fora... One is certainly free to believe that this is not 'anti-Realms'. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 05:17:51
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I don't think anyone here has issue with change itself. I think the major problem the fanbase has is with the sheer scope of the changes. Too much, too fast... and all of that.
The timejump, I think, was the 'straw that broke the camel's back', but I've said that numerous times before.
The truly disheartening thing is that I had always considered Candlekeep THE bastion of die-hard Realms-fans, and if this place looks like its 'anti-Realms' to outsiders (and newcomers), then that doesn't bode well at all. 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 05:19:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
I can see Dennis' perspective, too! I *really, really, love* the new 4e Forgotten Realms, but I've noticed on these boards that I'm in the minority!
How, exactly, are you in the minority? Do you have any numbers to support this claim?
quote:
I've been doing some searches for things Spellplague-related, and I *certainly* won't contribute to *those* scrolls! Sometimes it's just best to avoid a conversation!
You're free to offer any positive or negative feelings you may have about the 4e Realms. All that I ask is that you do so in both a polite and respectful manner -- and consider that not every scribe may have the same love for the new setting, as you apparently do.
quote:
I've also noticed that a lot of scribes here have completely boycotted the new material... which kinda' lends some credit to Dennis' perspective.
Again, I'm going to ask for proof about this claim of "a lot of scribes." I've only seen or heard of a few that have directly and deliberately refused to buy ANY 4e material.
quote:
But anyway, Thanks for making this the best site for Realmslore on the Web, even if it comes with a bitter-pill of anti-Realms fervor!
So you both compliment and insult the site and the community in the same sentence?
I'm not sure what it is that you're really trying to say here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 05:21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Well, I see a lot of 'hate' for the current iteration of the Realms on these fora... One is certainly free to believe that this is not 'anti-Realms'.
Your certainly free to believe that, I agree. But without any direct evidence, I have to assume that you're just looking to start a debate on this very subject in an attempt to loosely justify your point. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 05:43:52
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| I didn't know that one was required to provide empirical evidence for their opinions, but ok. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 05:44:52
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I support the Realms whatever the Edition.
Sure I might not like all of the changes, but it is what it is. I din't like all of the 2E Changes, or the 3E changes for what it's worth.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 06 Jan 2012 05:49:53 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 05:52:02
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The lie is put to the statement in that the Return of the Archwizards heralded-in 3e, NOT 4e... and many of us have been complaining about it since then (I never liked them, which is why I avoided this thread topic, until now, when the topic seems to have shifted to an attack against the scribes here).
And despite the Netherease revival in 3e, 3e remains my favorite edition (mostly due to the rules, and not anything setting-specific). One piece of disagreeable lore does not a bad setting make.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 05:56:06
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Ok, The Sage, I've just completed a review of 50 scribes here, based on post recency. Of the last 50 unique scribes to have posted at Candlekeep, 43 have posted scrolls which contain negative commentary on the current state of the Forgotten Realms.
This is was not a scientific assay, but it does seem to back up my opinion. Not that anyone needs to back up their opinion with statistical assays. Unless called upon to do so, I guess...
Anyway, I was going to list those 50 scribes below, with quotes that were indicative of their negative commentary, but that seems kinda' rude. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 05:56:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The lie is put to the statement in that the Return of the Archwizards heralded-in 3e, NOT 4e... and many of us have been complaining about it since then (I never liked them, which is why I avoided this thread topic, until now, when the topic seems to have shifted to an attack against the scribes here).
And despite the Netherease revival in 3e, 3e remains my favorite edition (mostly due to the rules, and not anything setting-specific). One piece of disagreeable lore does not a bad setting make.
Indeed. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 06 Jan 2012 05:57:13 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 06:06:00
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Wow, nothing quite like someone trying to put you in a small box with a big label.
I think it's way, way more complicated than you'd like to think, Lady SA. There are -decades- of printed Realms material and four editions, with numerous changes each year not just when editions switch. Each and every scribe is going to like, or dislike, each one of the myriad different changes to the Realms. Some might prefer a particular edition, others (like me) prefer to pick and choose things from each edition.
Being passionate about the Realms as we all are, of course we are going to have strong (and varied!) opinions. And expressing negative comments don't necessarily mean total hate for a particular edition.
Maybe you'd be better off getting to know people, and why they have particular opinions, before trying to categorize people?
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 06:07:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Ok, The Sage, I've just completed a review of 50 scribes here, based on post recency. Of the last 50 unique scribes to have posted at Candlekeep, 43 have posted scrolls which contain negative commentary on the current state of the Forgotten Realms.
And how do you define "negative?"
quote:
This is was not a scientific assay, but it does seem to back up my opinion. Not that anyone needs to back up their opinion with statistical assays. Unless called upon to do so, I guess...
I'm simply curious. I didn't mean to imply that you actually had to supply any evidence. You just seemed so certain that your opinions should be counted as fact. So I didn't think it would be too difficult for you to provide numbers to support it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 06:19:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Ok, The Sage, I've just completed a review of 50 scribes here, based on post recency. Of the last 50 unique scribes to have posted at Candlekeep, 43 have posted scrolls which contain negative commentary on the current state of the Forgotten Realms.
And how do you define "negative?"
quote:
This is was not a scientific assay, but it does seem to back up my opinion. Not that anyone needs to back up their opinion with statistical assays. Unless called upon to do so, I guess...
I'm simply curious. I didn't mean to imply that you actually had to supply any evidence. You just seemed so certain that your opinions should be counted as fact. So I didn't think it would be too difficult for you to provide numbers to support it.
The categorical definition that I used to define 'negative' was:
"An indication of disdain, prejudice, ill-feelings or ill-ease with the current iteration of the Forgotten Realms Dungeons and Dragons Campaign Setting"
I admit, I was not able to subject the scrolls I surveyed to interrater review, but I strongly feel that I could get a 0.8 or higher...
Regarding your call for evidence; no, I just stated my opinion, as a newcomer here. If you took it as a statement of fact, sorry. Just my impression. Now that I have felt the bitter-sting of the Mod-Stave, I learned my lesson.
Sorry.
Sorry. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 07:05:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Regarding your call for evidence; no, I just stated my opinion, as a newcomer here. If you took it as a statement of fact, sorry.
Fair enough. I'll admit, also, that I may have misinterpreted your reply myself.
No harm, so we'll move on.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 07:48:38
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I suppose I should not have spoken when I have not read the novels they are in. I didn't realize there was strife between them, that makes me like them more, and make them seem more realistic. There is 0 possibility in my mind that fervent worshipers of a goddess of Entropy could build something lasting like an empire...
Opus or Selunnara just needs to return to the realms and i'd be fine with Netheril. I was playing a campaign where this was the goal but it is progressing slowly because of peoples' conflicting time schedules.
I just don't like any over the top power. Aumvar the Undying and other Netherese descendents/survivors probably do not consider the Empire of Shade to be the "True Netheril" and citizens under their rule might feel the same way, too.
Like Szass tam completely ruling Thay without competing Zulkirs (and they ONLY worship Bane when I view the realms as being polytheistic throughout)
Without Shar's grip on the shades (as should occur when they spread out form a city to the wider world) I would see them worshiping just as many gods as the rest of the realms. It must be cold up there (Auril), they used to worship Kozah (Talos), Garagos, Amaunatar, Jannath and so forth. |
Edited by - MrHedgehog on 06 Jan 2012 07:50:19 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 10:54:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Ok, The Sage, I've just completed a review of 50 scribes here, based on post recency. Of the last 50 unique scribes to have posted at Candlekeep, 43 have posted scrolls which contain negative commentary on the current state of the Forgotten Realms.
This is was not a scientific assay, but it does seem to back up my opinion. Not that anyone needs to back up their opinion with statistical assays. Unless called upon to do so, I guess...
Anyway, I was going to list those 50 scribes below, with quotes that were indicative of their negative commentary, but that seems kinda' rude.
Wow, that's a lot of work to prove a point, especially since there's been little discussion of the 4E Realms, of late.
And "negative commentary on the current state of the Forgotten Realms" is not the same as being "anti-Realms". People complain because they care about the overall setting, not because they dislike everything FR. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2012 : 15:05:13
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I can only agree with Swiftstrike in one regard, although 'she' is as guilty of it as nearly everyone else in this thread.
Note I did not post in this thread UNTIL it became an attack against Candlekeep. I have often been told that if you have nothing to contribute, then don't contribute.
Why did so many here feel it was necessary to complain about Netheril in a thread that was not designed to do so? I do not like Peas (in fact, I LOATHE peas), but I do not look for pro-pea sites and comment on their apparent lack of taste.
I know what I don't like, but if someone else likes it, then fine. I think Dennis genuinely likes everything about the setting, be it 3e or 4e lore (and the Shades ARE 3e lore, regardless of what anyone may think), so just leave him be. He does not come-off like a WotC cheerleader, so I have no problem with his likes and dislikes, and even try to contribute positively when possible.
On the other hand, when someone comes off like, "I go to conventions just so I can stand near the designers and bask in their glory (because their farts smell like flowers!)", I have to be very suspicious of the underlying motives. I love Ed Greenwood, I enjoy his writing, and I enjoy the way he thinks, but I do not go around saying everything he ever did was perfect and he is a better author then Shakespeare. Thats just not normal; fandom has it limits. I expect to see that sort of rabid fanboism over on the Paizo site (which is what keeps me hesitating from abandoning FR altogether).
As I said, Dennis tries really hard to be an active part of this community, and I commend HIM for that. I do not have to like everything he likes to treat him with respect.
I guess what I am saying is that the mods should really re-read this entire scroll and then take a long look in a mirror. Sometimes trolls aren't wrong. 
Yesterday I tried to contribute to a thread in a '4e fashion', and was immediately shot-down by a designer I like very much and respect. I simply do not know what the right thing to do is anymore. Is it really worth the angst to still be a fan? If I say something positive about 4e, I feel like a traitor, and if I say I hate it, I have to feel like I'm feeding FR to the wolves. The only way to avoid confrontation is to simply ignore the 800 lb Gorilla in the room, which I think is driving everyone here a little nuts.
How a 3e topic became an anti-4e thread is beyond me. We never had to worry about what we liked or didn't like in 1e-3e, and yet if we voice an opinion on 4e we are being admonished for it. I just don't get it - something has definitely changed, and it isn't just the rules or the setting. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Jan 2012 15:07:28 |
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Favorite Royalty
