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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Dec 2003 : 12:16:00
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One of the more interesting ideas presented in the Savage Species tome was the concept of 'Racial Levels'. This has been expanded upon in Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed Variant PHB, and has now also been used as an additional concept for character classes in the new Dragonlance 3.5 setting.
I am curious to hear about whether any other DM's have introduced this concept into their own FR campaigns. I'm in the process of creating some racial levels at the moment, so I'd be interested to see what others have on this.
For those without access to the above tomes I mentioned, there is a free download available from Monte Cook's website that details the standard races from the D&D PHB as pertaining to Racial Levels. The PDF details all the rules and mechanics you need for presenting this concept into your D&D games.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 09 Dec 2003 12:18:02
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2003 : 22:23:48
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| I personally have only employed this concept, thus far, with regards to characters created using Savage Species. Shortly after the book came out (and I subsequently purchased it) the players in my group created a monster party; it proved interesting. However, while I have not employed other 'Racial Levels', such as those presented in the other books above, it is an interesting concept, though perhaps in some ways it does seem a bit general with regards to standard races. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2003 : 02:31:48
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| Let me see if I can find the notes...(rumages through a massive stack of parchment)...ahhh...the monster party my group made was made up of a Mind Flayer, an Ogre Mage, a Rakshasa, a Troll, an Efreeti, and a Vrock. All of the characters were around tenth level (some were lower simply because of the level adjustment, such as the Mind Flayer with a lovely +7) when we stopped playing them. They were all single classed in their Racial Class (except for the Efreeti who was a cleric...one needs healing magic after all), and honestly it was really fun. They characters worked well with only racial levels, and I do not think anyone found it unbalanced or anyhow unstatisfactory. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2003 : 03:56:21
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| I don't know, it was the very concept of Racial Levels that kept me from buying the savage species book ( I DID read it). I think getting levels as monsters is redundant. I just have a problem with the races gaining their abilities with levels. it just seems pointless to me. I ran a campaign and some players wanted to use savage species, but at this juncture, I will not include savage species as an option. I thought it would have an easier integration of monsters into PC's, but really it just offered up another advancement system. |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Cult_Leader
Learned Scribe
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2003 : 14:06:19
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Actually that seems very stupid to me. But maybe that is because Im not understanding what the hell your talking about sage lol  . I never read the books for that, and I tossed 3.5 in the can after looking it over page after page. It was a waste of money in the long run.
One- If you mean that people as player chars gaining abilities of monsters, since that is kind of what this sounds like to me, is highly dumb and takes the advantages of the momsters away. however it also brings up the idea of making a Final Fantasy based D&D game. After all they did have chars within the games that could learn and use mopnster attacks and such. In the long run thats not so bad heh.
two- if you mean having monsters work for their own racail abilities then NO! By god thats the dumbest thing I have heard of. Race based abilities are just that. Abilities that are common to a race. Now its true a monster might not get something till it is older, but level does not effect age nor age level. A 40 year old char could still easily be 1st-2nd level.
Third- If you mean monsters as player chars and gaining levels as in fighter and such. Then thats nothing new. But there is a cap in both 3.0 and 3.5 to what I know. The cap is the beasts HD. It can gain a few levels but its HD counts as levels. Odd that huh? Thats how that works and most can only go to a certain amount in levels. Which to me seemed very dumb as well. Cool moster chars should be able to max out to after all  .
Anyway in all essence I have not one clue what you mean because I have not read the books your talking about. TO my knowledge this is. Please keep in mind I blank out 3.5 and stay away from it like it is the black plage. Please go a bit more in depth about what your talking about and I can come up with a better speach about it. |
"Madness you say! Do you fear me? Are you afraid of what I might do, of what I might say? What a fascinating reaction. Don't you find it somewhat encumbering?"
Piddles assumes a deep and resonant voice. "Space...the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship...Garou. It's mission: to slay Wyrm creatures where they live and breed. To accumulate more Garou than the world's entire population. To produce metis like no one has before." - Piddles
"Aren't you people supposed to be doing something? Like, entertaining me, the fascist wizard?" - InleRah
I have the passwords to the minds of everyone and the cheat codes to the universe - Me |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2003 : 23:26:15
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| I agree with you cult leader. I think that Savage species was just another money grubbing product. I don't see a need for it because any good group of D&D players can figure out how to play monsters without a new we-need-money book. I read it and it was of the same mediocre flavour as the TSR books that were out around the time of TSR's Collapse. |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 00:05:31
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| It looks interesting, but I don't think I'd ever want to use it. (You have to train to be more like your species? ) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Maeven
Acolyte
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 00:11:06
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As we are talking of "mediocre" products...
Can anyone explain me WHAT'S THE PURPOSE of these repulsing and disgusting books from "mongoose publishing" ? You know, the serie
called the "quitessential" thing ?
These book seem to be powergaming : 3 new prestige classes per page without historical background. These books lack "deepness". I'm wondering if any DM went up with something good with the mongoose serie... |
" May Corellon always stay with you, for his favor is a great blessing of life and nature ... " |
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Belfar
Seeker
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 01:04:46
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| I hate the Quintessential books by Mongoose. They don't much in the way of gameplay and they arent very deep. I regret spending the 20 dollars to buy the Quintessential Rogue. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 05:57:27
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The only real way I could ever see something like this actually being a good concept for a campaign world, would be for those worlds that are in a primitve standard of development - at least, when compared to other worlds like Toril and Krynn. Athas for example...?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Cult_Leader
Learned Scribe
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 14:16:20
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I like the Quint ones for 2nd ed. I have never seen the ones for 3rd. If they do not have a history to the class then I wouldnt allow it. Witht he history there I could toss in small story lines for each player and such. Or make a better background for my char. I do howver like the ones from AEG, such as the war book. The war book does not give them that much back ground either however. Yet in the same tolken they are all war based classes in a book that sets everything to war aligned things. Makes it easy. And the only two classes that are really powerful are the Lancer and sniper classes. Sheild barer (sp?) and War Mage work well together. The mage gets to wear some armour and the sheild B. Can sit around with a tower sheild give the mage twice his sheild ac and benefits and still gaurd himself to. Thats a nice +14 ac if used right just for a mage. Nice huh. Not only that but once each turn if someone attacks the Sheild B's person he is gaurding, if he has not made an attack he can make a huge attack on said attacker. Sadly it can only be done once per turn, and you do not get to make any other attacks that combat "round". But yes. Gaining things you get from birth is dumb lol. I have to errr... be level 15 to breath fire.... hehehe, Or better yet, " t says here that I have to be level 9 to close my middle eye and use my eye stalks."  |
"Madness you say! Do you fear me? Are you afraid of what I might do, of what I might say? What a fascinating reaction. Don't you find it somewhat encumbering?"
Piddles assumes a deep and resonant voice. "Space...the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship...Garou. It's mission: to slay Wyrm creatures where they live and breed. To accumulate more Garou than the world's entire population. To produce metis like no one has before." - Piddles
"Aren't you people supposed to be doing something? Like, entertaining me, the fascist wizard?" - InleRah
I have the passwords to the minds of everyone and the cheat codes to the universe - Me |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 15:52:54
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| Reminds me of an idea I had for a wizard/bodyguard pair (using the Devoted Defender PrC and certain d20 feats). It would make a great roleplaying team. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Maeven
Acolyte
Canada
17 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2003 : 23:23:03
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| The devoted defender is a really great NPC class, but I dont know a SINGLE player who would like to play that : spending your life to defend another PC is kind of frustrating at the long run... But that prestige class is THE way to make all your evil NPC invincible ... |
" May Corellon always stay with you, for his favor is a great blessing of life and nature ... " |
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RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2003 : 21:47:24
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whu hasnt bought a quint book aye? i know me and belfar bought quite a few just to learn later on that the were no good mounds of fecies worth less than the parchment the twisted words were scribed on. (DOWN WITH MONGOOSE!!!) |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2003 : 18:07:34
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Well, the Devoted Defender PrC would require someone to form a roleplaying team with someone else, rather than be his/her own player and character.
What I was thinking was either the stereotypical lover pair (say, female mage, guarded by the male fighter), or siblings or neighbors or such. The point was that you could have a mage (wizard, preferably) who could focus completely on being the artilliary of the party, while being guarded by his/her lifelong friend and ally. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Fibura Gauntlet
Seeker
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 11:39:43
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quote:
What I was thinking was either the stereotypical lover pair (say, female mage, guarded by the male fighter), or siblings or neighbors or such. The point was that you could have a mage (wizard, preferably) who could focus completely on being the artilliary of the party, while being guarded by his/her lifelong friend and ally.
That reminds me a lot of the role of the Catalysts in Weis and Hickman's Darksword Trilogy *double-checks that Alaundo isn't stood right behind him* A Catalyst's job was to provide extra magical power to those who needed it, in a semi-Clerical role. Everyone could use magic but any "large" spell required a Catalyst to power it. In battle, you had to protect your personal Catalyst, or you'd end up unable to cast any magic worthy of the name
Back on topic, I agree with you Bookwyrm, the amount of roleplaying mileage in a relationship like that is tremendous. Particularly since every DM is going to eventually seperate the pair forcibly and see what happens  |
- Fibura Gauntlet
A scrib(bl)e on the margins of Candlekeep |
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Cult_Leader
Learned Scribe
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 13:55:29
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| I have done that in a game actually. I sat back and played the role of someone charged with gaurding a female cleric. Needles to say the cleric was actually another player character and she seemed to be crazy about rushing into battle when ever she had the chance. The fun thing was she bound each of her victims. Which means I have to do my job a lot. |
"Madness you say! Do you fear me? Are you afraid of what I might do, of what I might say? What a fascinating reaction. Don't you find it somewhat encumbering?"
Piddles assumes a deep and resonant voice. "Space...the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship...Garou. It's mission: to slay Wyrm creatures where they live and breed. To accumulate more Garou than the world's entire population. To produce metis like no one has before." - Piddles
"Aren't you people supposed to be doing something? Like, entertaining me, the fascist wizard?" - InleRah
I have the passwords to the minds of everyone and the cheat codes to the universe - Me |
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Racial Levels in FR
