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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Oct 2011 : 17:37:27
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I was just thinking about Halruaa again this morning, and I was thinking that borrowing heavily from the Eberron setting would work well for that nation. If I were to ever run the Realms again, and more specifically, Halruaa, I would probably just adopt all the guild-stuff wholesale (with tweaking, of course - the Dragonmarks would change to tatoos, etc). Lightning-rails, skyships, tons of utility magic - its just a really good fit for the place.
I don't mind potent (epic) magic, so long as it's a single event pivotal to the story. Having some Red Wizard standing on street corner and yelling "Dread Rings! Get yer Dread Rings here!" just isn't my cup of tea. I haven't read that series, but I would say it was done 'correctly' (IMO). The Sojourner, on the other hand, was just too over-the-top for me (loved that series by-the-way, despite the uber-munchkin villain, which tells you just how talented Paul Kemp is).
Witches are powerful (more so then common folk), Fiends are powerful, Vampires are powerful... yet in folklore all fly under-the-radar. This is how it should be - people fear what they do not understand, and it doesn't really matter how powerful a creature is when it is out-numbered a thousand to one. In one of Ed's novels a War-Wizard gets stoned (the old-fashioned way  ) by a crowd, and he's severely injured. All his power was useless when the crowd turned on him (albeit, unexpectedly). That's why in most fantasy, Wizards may be 'known', but they avoid direct confrontation as much as possible. Human beings tend to ignore that which doesn't directly effect them. Being 'flashy' gets you dead.
Also, it is just plain stupid (and Mages are known for their intelligence) to let everyone know what you are capable of - the old adage (and Sun-Tzu teaching) of "Know thy Enemy" is there for a reason. Only a fool gives away his hand. So, even if your world is magic-rich, it still makes more sense for most Mages to operate discreetly... IMHO, of course. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2011 : 01:23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Being 'flashy' gets you dead.
Not necessarily. Some lowly wizards do it to instill fear to common folk so that they would leave him alone. See the Edolas Arc of Fairy Tail, where the Cat-Queen did just that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2011 : 15:54:01
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quote:
To answer Therise, yes, although 'corrupt' does not necessarily imply 'evil' (although already-evil sorcerers tend to defend against, deal with, or ignore corruption much more easily).
Considering some of the truly amazing (or horrifying) things Hyborean magic is capable of, however, it's usually worth it.
All characters in the MMO, for example, start out with a brand called the 'Mark of Acheron' - they were once intended to be part of a brain-fried slave army under the control of the Stygian sorcerer Thoth-Amon. While the Acheronian spirit suppressing one's own consciousness is now gone when you start the game, the Mark remains, and one of the big storylines is getting rid of it, and this is made possible only through Atlantean magic (the diametric opposite of the ancient Acheronian sorcery used by the Stygian archmagi).
In my opinion, that's a pretty hefty helping of mojo. Summon spirit, force spirit into (usually unwilling) host, brand host, seal spirit inside host, send spirit/host servitor out to do your bidding in perpetuity. Yeah...I could handle being able to do that. 
Then they've dramatically made the MMO game different (less severe corruption effects) than the Conan d20 game. That's interesting, although it somewhat waters down the evil side of magic and drifts somewhat from traditional Conan themes.
In Conan d20 tabletop and the novels, although "good" is a nebulous concept and good gods might be inventions of the priesthood (or they might be real), "evil" is definitely a real, concrete thing with a capital E. Demons and the like are classic evils in Conan.
When casting evil-oriented spells, or when affected by curses and the like, you roll to avoid "corruption" (which can build up, the more evil magic you do). At a certain point, high levels of corruption lead to minor insanities, then major insanities, and finally possession by a demonic entity (at which point you are taken over by the GM). It alters your outlook and tendencies as well, where you slowly begin to seek out more evil. So corruption really isn't a cool thing, nor do most higher level characters (if you want to keep playing) seek it out. So yeah, big difference: evil is real, and it's really bad for you in the novels and in the Conan d20 tabletop.
I understand the reason why they would avoid this in the MMO, but it really alters some major themes in the Conan-verse. It would be like playing the Cthulhu game and not being overcome by insanity when you do or see "too much" of the bad stuff.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 31 Oct 2011 16:02:26 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2011 : 10:19:24
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| Its always better to have to much magic than to Little in my opinion. |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2011 : 22:45:03
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| It all depends on how well it's written. I love the WoT, with relatively few chanellers, and I love the epic spell battles of FR, as long as they're well written. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2011 : 14:21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
It all depends on how well it's written. I love the WoT, with relatively few chanellers, and I love the epic spell battles of FR, as long as they're well written.
I'm inclined to agree...or sort of... While I like the magic system of the Forgotten Realms as it is today, any "overuse" of magic in the novels would definitely make me drop the book. Just like in some Magic: The Gathering novels. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2511 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2011 : 18:00:06
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There's no reason why it won't run the whole range from "none" to "as much as they can, whether it's sensible or not".
Some should have overuse magic unless they're very careful - and in FR canon magocracies and highly magical societies (drow with structural repair, surface elves with extradimensional pockets) do routinely overuse. Some others can be shy or superstitious - again, canon got some magic-fearing chaps like Uthgardt barbarians. It would be more strange if this was otherwise. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2011 : 19:02:37
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It depends on the magic system and what magic can do. Magic is a pretty big deal in the Lord of the Rings, and so it's rare there.
Meanwhile, magic in D&D is so versatile and relatively easy to use (you apparently just need the right ability scores and class levels) that it's ludicrous that there would not be at least one spellcaster in every village, and indeed the Realmslore reflects that. People aren't going to not use something as powerful as magic because of some handwavy nonsense that ultimately comes from real world historical "magic-users" being shy with their magic because they can't actually do it.
Edit: Also, reading the FRCS yesterday I stumbled on a tidbit that people forget. When drawing up random demographics, sorcerers are 1d6 and wizards 1d8, instead of the usual 1d4 listed for both classes in the DMG guide. I think it's pretty clear that despite magic in Faerun not going the way they use it in Khorvaire (do not interpret this as a snippy comment against Eberron), it's still a very heavy magic setting. |
Edited by - Eladrinstar on 31 Dec 2011 19:07:39 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2012 : 06:04:38
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
There's no reason why it won't run the whole range from "none" to "as much as they can, whether it's sensible or not".
Some should have overuse magic unless they're very careful - and in FR canon magocracies and highly magical societies (drow with structural repair, surface elves with extradimensional pockets) do routinely overuse. Some others can be shy or superstitious - again, canon got some magic-fearing chaps like Uthgardt barbarians. It would be more strange if this was otherwise.
What I meant with "overuse" is that it solves practically everything, taking away the mystery and fun that the story should exude. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2012 : 07:43:36
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Extremely rare to sparse and even run FR that way.
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BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2012 : 18:23:50
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I voted for Balanced - with a caveat.
The Realms are certainly considered Magic-rich in comparison to some settings. However, in comparison to others, Eberron for example, The Realms might appear as less so.
I think overall, The Realms exhibit a great balance between Magic-sparse areas, such as various Barbarian tribes or small villages, and Magic-rich areas such as many of the aforementioned examples.
When running my realms, I take the following view. While many people might be able to learn some rudimentary magic, and some actually do, very few will be able to master the higher level stuff. Accordingly, you might find "Utility Casters" or "Niche-mages" serving in a variety of mundane-arcane rolls in the right type of area. A perfect example cited earlier was a mage moving cargo onto or off of a merchant vessel by use of conjurations or a Druid tending to the fields in a rural area to keep them from expanding into his forest. But, finding a mage or cleric capable of casting the more awe-inspiring spells is more difficult. Not every caster wants to adventure and run the risk of being disolved by a slime or turned into minced meat by a trap. Some of them are perfectly content in a snug house and warm bed every night which means they just won't progress as far as more active casters (read as not gain experience points in the game mechanic).
I apply this thought to magic items as well. Perhaps a well-known arms dealer wishes to give his business the edge by supplying something his competitors cannot; enchanted weapons. Lower level enchantments such as a simple +1 wouldn't be too rare or hard to come by - especially given the nature of many of the nasties running about The Realms these days. However, high level enchantments can be very few and far between making them particularly prized items. The same goes for multiple enchantments on a single item. One fairly common or useful low-level enchantment wouldn't be too rare but multiple or high level enchantments would be considerably more diffucult to find; usually resulting from a specific request and (at one time) having an owner who apparently had an untimely demise at the hands of some nefarious nasty.
Good Hunting! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2012 : 19:03:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
What I meant with "overuse" is that it solves practically everything, taking away the mystery and fun that the story should exude.
I don't see how "taking away the mystery" could become an in-universe consideration or why more magic would take away fun even out of it. There are a lot of very high-magical settings, D&D-ized and not, that are fun, just like there's a lot of "mostly mundane" fun settings. And sometimes it's more fun because the greater power level can enforce faster pacing and the characters don't have to dig their way for months around every trivial problem.
The main quality issue is whether the described setting is a coherent whole or a bunch of floating islands without any rhyme or reason other than forming platformer puzzles (Xen). What is made of is secondary at most.
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfhound75
Not every caster wants to adventure and run the risk of being disolved by a slime or turned into minced meat by a trap. Some of them are perfectly content in a snug house and warm bed every night which means they just won't progress as far as more active casters (read as not gain experience points in the game mechanic).
Yep, that's my problem with D&D3: wizards get experience by running around baiting giant fish, but not more related practice and studying. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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How do you like your Magic?
