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Originally posted by MrHedgehog

Why are magical empires always in the past? At some point in time people had to have been the most advanced they'd ever been = P

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by MrHedgehog

Why are magical empires always in the past? At some point in time people had to have been the most advanced they'd ever been = P

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Like Thay and Halruaa?

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by MrHedgehog

Why are magical empires always in the past? At some point in time people had to have been the most advanced they'd ever been = P

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Like Thay and Halruaa?

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Unfortunately, Halruaa is now utterly gone. And Thay's magocracy was crushed and replaced by a tyrant's dictatorship.

The difference is that it doesn't yet feel like they're in the distant past, but they were lost 100 years ago.

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Originally posted by entreri3478

At least Tam doesn't dress nearly as bad as Ghadafi (spelling?)

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by MrHedgehog

Why are magical empires always in the past? At some point in time people had to have been the most advanced they'd ever been = P

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Like Thay and Halruaa?

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And let's not go any further with discussing anything real world, please.

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Originally posted by Dennis

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And let's not go any further with discussing anything real world, please.

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Your reminder comes right after my last post, and I thought you either misread it or posted in the wrong thread. But when I scrolled up, well...my mistake.

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Originally posted by Markustay

See? Now I think many more of us would agree, if we all had the same exact concept of the choices.

I like what Arcanus said above, but I would classify that as 'scarce'.

I want the world itself to be magical, but have that magic out of the reach of most mortals. I prefer the traditions to be based in non-humans, and very hard for humans to learn.

The equalizer to that (in my own preferences) would be that those 'old races' themselves are now scarce.

So I suppose it isn't the shear amount of magic I have issue with (I love the way Toril is set-up, with it's Weave), but rather, the availability of it.

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Originally posted by Markustay


Although if any group came close to the zaniness of Xanth, it would have to be The Harpells.

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Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

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Originally posted by Markustay


Although if any group came close to the zaniness of Xanth, it would have to be The Harpells.

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Harumph. 'Zany', indeed.

Magic is best, I think, when it is preciously rare, yet can be insanely powerful.

One of the best treatments, D&D-wise, was how they did it in Birthright. You have a fair number of arcane spellcasters, but only a tiny minority of them are actual wizards. This was Second Edition, so sorcerers had not yet come upon the TSR scene.

The actual wizards (and actual spellcasting priests) were gifted with the blood of the old gods who died at the battle of Mount Diesmaar, and were thus able to perform feats of magic beyond the ability of mere mortals (such blood also gives heroes of all classes unique abilities, but that is another tale). For those without divine blood (which does not make them divine, necessarily), they are known as 'magicians'.

Magicians cast first and second level spells normally, and they can be any kind of spell. Third level spells and higher are limited to only the schools of Divination and Illusion. There are many, many more magicians than true (blooded) wizards, needless to say. Only elves and half-elves can become true wizards without the benefit of deific bloodlines. True wizards among non-elves are as numerous as billionaires in the United States - someone somewhere has heard of them, and they almost always have power and influence far beyond what their level would afford them in other worlds, like the Realms, Krynn, Greyhawk, and so forth. In other words, very rare indeed.

Some of the best treatment of magic comes from Robert E. Howard in his Conan and Kull series. Spellcasters are known, feared, respected, and often reviled. They rarely cast great magics where anyone can see them, but when they do cast them, few people are unaware of it. This has spun off into the Age of Conan MMO, where the number of spellcasters, though far exceeding what would actually be found in Hyborea, are specialized and capable of casting some truly shocking spells.

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Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

Some of the best treatment of magic comes from Robert E. Howard in his Conan and Kull series. Spellcasters are known, feared, respected, and often reviled. They rarely cast great magics where anyone can see them, but when they do cast them, few people are unaware of it. This has spun off into the Age of Conan MMO, where the number of spellcasters, though far exceeding what would actually be found in Hyborea, are specialized and capable of casting some truly shocking spells.

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

Some of the best treatment of magic comes from Robert E. Howard in his Conan and Kull series. Spellcasters are known, feared, respected, and often reviled. They rarely cast great magics where anyone can see them, but when they do cast them, few people are unaware of it. This has spun off into the Age of Conan MMO, where the number of spellcasters, though far exceeding what would actually be found in Hyborea, are specialized and capable of casting some truly shocking spells.

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If I recall correctly, don't spellcasters in Conan constantly have to worry about corruption toward evil? I've not seen the MMO, but I think that was a problem in the tabletop RPG. To me, that's a pretty big negative.

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Originally posted by entreri3478

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

Some of the best treatment of magic comes from Robert E. Howard in his Conan and Kull series. Spellcasters are known, feared, respected, and often reviled. They rarely cast great magics where anyone can see them, but when they do cast them, few people are unaware of it. This has spun off into the Age of Conan MMO, where the number of spellcasters, though far exceeding what would actually be found in Hyborea, are specialized and capable of casting some truly shocking spells.

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If I recall correctly, don't spellcasters in Conan constantly have to worry about corruption toward evil? I've not seen the MMO, but I think that was a problem in the tabletop RPG. To me, that's a pretty big negative.

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What's wrong with being evil??

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Originally posted by Markustay
I like the way it worked in that setting, but I don't think I would want everyone having magic in every setting. On the flipside, for some strange reason, whenever I picture Halruaa (pre-spellpuke) I think of Xanth (because nearly all native Halruaans had some magic).

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Originally posted by Varl

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Originally posted by Markustay
I like the way it worked in that setting, but I don't think I would want everyone having magic in every setting. On the flipside, for some strange reason, whenever I picture Halruaa (pre-spellpuke) I think of Xanth (because nearly all native Halruaans had some magic).

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I play 2e Realms, so Halruaa is still there, alive and magically well. I've always liked the idea of Halruaa anyway, where magic is commonplace, but not in everyone's hands, in a sort of 'magic convenience' way. Magical globe lamplights at night, unseen servants opening doors at the approach of shop patrons, cleaning golems, and magical lifts in inns that lift you to your floor instead of having to climb stairs.

Halruaa also allows me to have a location in my Realms where magic is commonplace enough that it can be much less so everywhere else.

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by Varl

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Originally posted by Markustay
I like the way it worked in that setting, but I don't think I would want everyone having magic in every setting. On the flipside, for some strange reason, whenever I picture Halruaa (pre-spellpuke) I think of Xanth (because nearly all native Halruaans had some magic).

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I play 2e Realms, so Halruaa is still there, alive and magically well. I've always liked the idea of Halruaa anyway, where magic is commonplace, but not in everyone's hands, in a sort of 'magic convenience' way. Magical globe lamplights at night, unseen servants opening doors at the approach of shop patrons, cleaning golems, and magical lifts in inns that lift you to your floor instead of having to climb stairs.

Halruaa also allows me to have a location in my Realms where magic is commonplace enough that it can be much less so everywhere else.

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I loved that about Halruaa, as it made their realm a unique place for PCs to visit. An actually friendly realm, at least not an evil or corrupted realm, where magic was used to improve the lives of everyday citizens. It was different, really different, and yet there were still plenty of opportunities for adventure.

Frankly, if it is necessary to accept 4E Realms along the way to getting a repair in 5E, I'd hope at least one day that we learn Mystra saved Halruaa in a similar way to Shar "saving" the city of Shade.

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by entreri3478

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

Some of the best treatment of magic comes from Robert E. Howard in his Conan and Kull series. Spellcasters are known, feared, respected, and often reviled. They rarely cast great magics where anyone can see them, but when they do cast them, few people are unaware of it. This has spun off into the Age of Conan MMO, where the number of spellcasters, though far exceeding what would actually be found in Hyborea, are specialized and capable of casting some truly shocking spells.

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If I recall correctly, don't spellcasters in Conan constantly have to worry about corruption toward evil? I've not seen the MMO, but I think that was a problem in the tabletop RPG. To me, that's a pretty big negative.

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What's wrong with being evil??

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You usually get killed by the local barbarian.

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Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart

I went with 'even', though I agree with Wooly that it depends on the setting. For example, Ravenloft is a low-magic setting, making each piece found one with a background, story, rich history, and a much more valuable find than the standard magic item of other settings. A player of mine in the Domain of Dread finally found a pistol with his character that had magic about it, and it's become a favorite item that he cherishes, especially after hearing the story I crafted for that piece. And on a side note, I'd like to add that 'Possessions' loses out over 'Signature Items' as they are called in Ravenloft.

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Originally posted by entreri3478

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Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart

I went with 'even', though I agree with Wooly that it depends on the setting. For example, Ravenloft is a low-magic setting, making each piece found one with a background, story, rich history, and a much more valuable find than the standard magic item of other settings. A player of mine in the Domain of Dread finally found a pistol with his character that had magic about it, and it's become a favorite item that he cherishes, especially after hearing the story I crafted for that piece. And on a side note, I'd like to add that 'Possessions' loses out over 'Signature Items' as they are called in Ravenloft.

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Ravenloft is not as magic-rich as the Realms, but i would never say that it is a low-magic setting. Afterall, we are talking about a place where the magical mists can grab anyone at anytime out of any other world and transplant them into the Domains of Dread

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Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by entreri3478

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

Some of the best treatment of magic comes from Robert E. Howard in his Conan and Kull series. Spellcasters are known, feared, respected, and often reviled. They rarely cast great magics where anyone can see them, but when they do cast them, few people are unaware of it. This has spun off into the Age of Conan MMO, where the number of spellcasters, though far exceeding what would actually be found in Hyborea, are specialized and capable of casting some truly shocking spells.

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If I recall correctly, don't spellcasters in Conan constantly have to worry about corruption toward evil? I've not seen the MMO, but I think that was a problem in the tabletop RPG. To me, that's a pretty big negative.

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What's wrong with being evil??

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You usually get killed by the local barbarian.

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To answer Therise, yes, although 'corrupt' does not necessarily imply 'evil' (although already-evil sorcerers tend to defend against, deal with, or ignore corruption much more easily).

Considering some of the truly amazing (or horrifying) things Hyborean magic is capable of, however, it's usually worth it.

All characters in the MMO, for example, start out with a brand called the 'Mark of Acheron' - they were once intended to be part of a brain-fried slave army under the control of the Stygian sorcerer Thoth-Amon. While the Acheronian spirit suppressing one's own consciousness is now gone when you start the game, the Mark remains, and one of the big storylines is getting rid of it, and this is made possible only through Atlantean magic (the diametric opposite of the ancient Acheronian sorcery used by the Stygian archmagi).

In my opinion, that's a pretty hefty helping of mojo. Summon spirit, force spirit into (usually unwilling) host, brand host, seal spirit inside host, send spirit/host servitor out to do your bidding in perpetuity. Yeah...I could handle being able to do that.

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