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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 16:41:37
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Poll Question:
How do you prefer the use of magic in your fantasy novels? There is a huge range of fantasy series and stand alone books out there. All of which handle the use of magic in different ways. How do you prefer it?
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Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 19 Oct 2011 16:45:03
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 16:54:59
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Saturated in most nations, and extremely rare in some. Variety helps create an interesting quality to the setting. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 16:57:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Saturated in most nations, and extremely rare in some. Variety helps create an interesting quality to the setting.
The Realms as a whole are very magic-saturated, with a few exceptions of course |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
896 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 17:17:50
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| Saturated sounds so negative, I prefer to use 'rich'. Since I use many humanoid factions or religious groups in my campaigns, it is easier to make challenging encounters if low-level magic items aren't such a big deal. DMs who use more monsters do not have that problem. |
Edited by - Kilvan on 19 Oct 2011 17:18:29 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 17:19:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Saturated sounds so negative, I prefer to use 'rich'. Since I use many humanoid factions or religious groups in my campaigns, it is easier to make challenging encounters if low-level magic items aren't such a big deal. DMs who use more monsters do not have that problem.
If i used "rich" then i would also have to use "poor," which definitely sounds negative  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 17:39:30
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| Unique magic that is kept rare enough so that it doesn't ever become commonplace, and when you find a new unique spell, it's the best treasure a mage can find. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 17:49:17
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| Sparse... |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 17:58:13
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quote:
Originally posted by GRYPHON
Sparse...
Did you forget to vote? |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 19:16:49
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It depends on the setting...
The Realms is magic-rich, and I like that.
Magic is considerably less common on Midkemia, and that works for that setting.
In the Iron Kingdoms, magic is plentiful, but curative magic can be dangerous, and making magical items is so difficult that they rely heavily on making smaller enchanted items and then combining them (called mechanika). And this works for that setting. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Oct 2011 19:55:03 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 20:12:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It depends on the setting...
The Realms is magic-rich, and I like that.
Magic is considerably less common on Midkemia, and that works for that setting.
Agreed on all accounts. As often the case, it's not the availability of magic that matters most, but how it is utilized. Meager amount of magic that's excellently put to use would be more interesting than a huge amount of magic wasted on nothing. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 22:17:54
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Although it does depend on the setting, I personally prefer 'sparse', and even run FR that way.
Magic (in any setting) is not supposed to be so common any village idiot can do it, and it loses its luster (IMHO) when its as common as tech is in our world.
This is why I prefer small stories, about normal people caught in extraordinary circumstances. The novel Ghostwalker is a good example of this; just enough magic so you know it is around, and most of it is in the background. Merlin didn't juggle planets every chance he got - magic should be used sparingly. In the Belgariad, the Wizard Belgarath teaches his protege' that for every thing that is magically altered, something somewhere is affected - it is a 'Butterfly Effect'. You can't just create a rainstorm without causing a drought somewhere else. Throwing spells around willy-nilly just sounds too much like reckless power-mongering, and I cannot enjoy a character who does so, whatever the reasons (in other words, the ends DO NOT justify the means).
Remember the stories that inspired D&D - Gandalf rarely uses his magic, and in The Dying Earth stories, Vance's magic-users number less then a dozen (planet-wide! Perhaps universe-wide). When everyone is special... no-one is....
Just my 2 cents.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1253 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 22:30:05
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| Im with the sparse crew on this. The high magic of the Realms works for some reason but I generally feel it should be "special." The low magic is one of the things I loved about Malatra in the Living Jungle campaign. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
731 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2011 : 23:08:38
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| I prefer it sparse, though I like the novels where it is used commonly, but just for a few individuals.... The most memorable scenes are those implying magic, like Pharun vs Dyrr, or any of the Dragonlance novels involving Raist. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
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Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 00:15:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Remember the stories that inspired D&D - Gandalf rarely uses his magic, and in The Dying Earth stories, Vance's magic-users number less then a dozen (planet-wide! Perhaps universe-wide). When everyone is special... no-one is....
I've read those stories in the last couple of years, and I'm recalling more than a dozen... In fact, I'm not recalling them being in any kind of short supply. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 00:44:54
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Sparse. I tend to think of the Realms as being high-magic, but "sparse" in the sense that everyday commoners aren't going to have access to most of it. In places like Halruaa, it's widely available for everyday uses, but most everywhere else it's not. It seems like there is more magic than there really is, most of the time, because we play heroes (or read about heroes/epic tales).
I also take the approach, at least in my Realms, that being able to study and cast magic requires something special in the person's genetics/makeup. Perhaps 3-5% of the general public can learn magic, yet only 25% of those people actually could handle high level magic. It's still more people than you'd think, but it makes magic generally sparse unless you're in cities with a known caster.
With clerical magic, same thing in my Realms, although anyone could actually become a priest or monk. Only 15-20% of the clergy have that something special that allows them to channel the magic of their chosen deity. So a little more common, but still fairly sparse.
I don't like settings where anyone can learn anything, just because. Not everyone has the stamina and drive to become a heroic warrior, either. Most guards may have a little training, but I'd consider them roughly equivalent to rent-a-cops (if mercenaries), police (if trained by a city), or marines (if rigorously trained). Only marine-types could potentially become heroic adventuring warriors.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 02:12:12
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I really prefer the variant ways of magic use in DRAGONLANCE. It's defined, almost, as a quantifiable arcane science.
The Realms arcane system runs a close second, mainly because of all the wonderful Ed-lore that has long supported the practice of the Art by all manner of strange and curious characters.
I'll second Wooly's mention of the arcane system for the Iron Kingdoms setting as well. It's the only world I've encountered so far, that almost seamless blends the nature of mechanika with the arcane.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 02:18:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Although it does depend on the setting, I personally prefer 'sparse', and even run FR that way.
Magic (in any setting) is not supposed to be so common any village idiot can do it, and it loses its luster (IMHO) when its as common as tech is in our world.
This is why I prefer small stories, about normal people caught in extraordinary circumstances. The novel Ghostwalker is a good example of this; just enough magic so you know it is around, and most of it is in the background. Merlin didn't juggle planets every chance he got - magic should be used sparingly. In the Belgariad, the Wizard Belgarath teaches his protege' that for every thing that is magically altered, something somewhere is affected - it is a 'Butterfly Effect'. You can't just create a rainstorm without causing a drought somewhere else. Throwing spells around willy-nilly just sounds too much like reckless power-mongering, and I cannot enjoy a character who does so, whatever the reasons (in other words, the ends DO NOT justify the means).
Remember the stories that inspired D&D - Gandalf rarely uses his magic, and in The Dying Earth stories, Vance's magic-users number less then a dozen (planet-wide! Perhaps universe-wide). When everyone is special... no-one is....
Just my 2 cents.
I could not agree with you more. All of my favorite fantasy stories tend to have the use of magic as a rarity....so when it is used it's all the more impressive |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 02:43:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Magic (in any setting) is not supposed to be so common any village idiot can do it, and it loses its luster (IMHO) when its as common as tech is in our world.
There's a scene in [I think] one of Ed's novels which shows a mage-for-hire levitating trade goods and is an insightful glimpse of mercantile wizardry. That's largely about the appropriate level I consider for "common/utility" magic use in the Realms. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 02:59:06
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And most vessels (the smart ones) have 'Ship-Mages', which falls into the same category.
I am aware that FR is a high-magic setting, and enjoy it in novels (even that sort of utility magic is just 'background'), but when I run the Realms I just tone it down a bit. I like the fantastic to stay fantastic.
But that does not, in any way, stop me from enjoying Realms fiction. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 03:14:26
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| Saturated in some areas/locales, but Even in most others. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
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Mantis
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 06:05:22
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| I chose other. I like when Magic is Heavy in some areas and VERY rare in others. i love the idea of a Wizard from a heavy magic area going into a place where there isnt an open understanding of magic |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 09:02:49
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I like magic to have the feel of being magical. Supernatural, otherworldly. When I run the Realms, I tend to follow that concept - magic might not be rare all the time, but I try and invoke the mystique of it as best I can.
I don't really like the settings that treat it simply as a tool, or mass-produce it. It loses the flavour, I think. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12189 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 13:08:59
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| I prefer a more saturated magical world, in that there's many different spell, many different types of items, etc... My reasoning behind this is that I enjoy the idea of spell dueling between magic users. Most of the rules you see trying to simulate such just suck compared to literally having mages/priests take the feats necessary to have contingent spells or take the feats necessary to persist spells or just take the feats necessary to make whoppingly powerful spells to end a fight quick, etc.... Too many times I've looked at a statted up NPC and thought to myself... ok, so he's wide open to X type of attacks because he's not going to be able to raise proper defenses either quickly or around the clock. Conversely, some mages are so well prepared for a magical attack, that the basic "I'm gonna hit you over and over with this sharp stick" becomes a basic and real problem. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 13:44:52
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| Don't forget to share your opinion for non-Realms settings/worlds too :) |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 16:28:51
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Having a magic-rich world doesn't exactly mean that everyone is equal, that no one is special at all. Netheril is an empire of magic; everyone used magic, even bakers and gardeners. But not all gained prominence by achieving what Karsus and Ioulaum had. Similarly, some realms stood out among the rest by their unrivaled accomplishments in the study of the arcane.
A setting saturated with magic does not necessarily mean that all the people do embrace it with open arms. Some may find magic unreliable or more destructive than helpful, and thus would focus their attention elsewhere, say, martial arts and swordsmanship. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 16:35:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Mantis
I chose other. I like when Magic is Heavy in some areas and VERY rare in others. i love the idea of a Wizard from a heavy magic area going into a place where there isnt an open understanding of magic
On the flip side, I would like to see a barbarian streaking through a magic rich world like Netheril. Oopps, Sunbright Steelshanks has already done that |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Idamar of Thay
Acolyte
19 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 17:05:40
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It varies in series.
I always enjoyed a serie where magic is said to be a myth and even when people claim to be able to perform magic, they are quickly found to be charlatans. And just when we see that in this world, magic is a fantasy...Someone will use true magic.
But I also like magic heavy worlds, wich is part of what drew me to FR, where seemingly everyone has access to magic and even peasants can end up with old family heirlooms that turn out to be ancient netherese artifacts. I actually ran a D&D campaign based on that very premise a few years back. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 23:13:04
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I do not mind when there is a specific 'Empire of Wizards' somewhere, but I prefer it distant (like Thay or Halruaa), and I prefer it to be unique (in other words, I don't want lots of magical empires, except in the past). Everywhere else I like magic to still inspire wonder amongst the 'common folk'.
This thread, and something I saw on TV the other night has me refining my own setting/system now. I like it when a topic inspires me to think about the inner workings of the universe, and how that could reflect in game mechanics.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Remember the stories that inspired D&D - Gandalf rarely uses his magic, and in The Dying Earth stories, Vance's magic-users number less then a dozen (planet-wide! Perhaps universe-wide). When everyone is special... no-one is....
I've read those stories in the last couple of years, and I'm recalling more than a dozen... In fact, I'm not recalling them being in any kind of short supply.
I only read the first book - the one the whole series is named for. I too recently read it, and am only recalling 4 or 5 Mages characters (although older, more ancient ones are referenced). One of those few didn't even live on Earth.
I could be remembering wrong - I recall the first story best, with only 3 wizards - and I have no way of re-reading it at this point. 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Mantis
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2011 : 16:16:20
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Mantis
I chose other. I like when Magic is Heavy in some areas and VERY rare in others. i love the idea of a Wizard from a heavy magic area going into a place where there isnt an open understanding of magic
On the flip side, I would like to see a barbarian streaking through a magic rich world like Netheril. Oopps, Sunbright Steelshanks has already done that
What book is that from I have never heard of that character but it sounds like my kind of guy! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2011 : 16:28:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Mantis
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Mantis
I chose other. I like when Magic is Heavy in some areas and VERY rare in others. i love the idea of a Wizard from a heavy magic area going into a place where there isnt an open understanding of magic
On the flip side, I would like to see a barbarian streaking through a magic rich world like Netheril. Oopps, Sunbright Steelshanks has already done that
What book is that from I have never heard of that character but it sounds like my kind of guy!
The Netheril Trilogy [aka Arcane Age series] by Clayton Emery. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 21 Oct 2011 16:30:20 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2011 : 16:31:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Mantis
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Mantis
I chose other. I like when Magic is Heavy in some areas and VERY rare in others. i love the idea of a Wizard from a heavy magic area going into a place where there isnt an open understanding of magic
On the flip side, I would like to see a barbarian streaking through a magic rich world like Netheril. Oopps, Sunbright Steelshanks has already done that
What book is that from I have never heard of that character but it sounds like my kind of guy!
The Netheril Trilogy [aka Arcane Age series] by Clayton Emery.
Mantis--if you read that trilogy, please let us know what you think |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Topic |
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How do you like your Magic?
