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mitchellboeck
Acolyte
23 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 06:52:22
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So I'm making a new 3.5 character and I was wondering about everybody's oppinion about good character builds. I already have a rouge/wizard/arcane trickster and I would rather not make a barbarian or fighter but if anyone has any good idea's about those I will listen to them too. I know alot of your answers will be whatever I prefer and I know that is true but when I listen to other people's oppinions sometimes I realize that it sounds like a good idea.
Edit:
If it helps then my party has a wise old Dwarf fighter that specializes with a spiked chain. A barbarian that got hooked on drugs (bull strength potion), a self serving bard, and a rouge/wizard/arcane trickster that used to lead a life of crime but the old Dwarf got him out of it now he's kinda a Robin Hood guy. Also, I will still look at every build you guys put up but Spicifically I may be looking at a ranger build because my party needs ranged and a druid just because they look interesting and I think they have some heals? That said I really don't want to be a healer unless theres a really good build for it. My party has been getting along great with just healing potions and were at the level now where we can afford them. If anyone has any cool role playing stuff to go along with their builds that would be amazing also.
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Edited by - mitchellboeck on 10 Aug 2011 17:54:33
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 09:27:03
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| I'm thinking right now to start with psion, telepath. Then multiclass archivist and Cerebremancer. Leadership feat. |
z455t |
Edited by - Kno on 10 Aug 2011 09:54:16 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 12:55:43
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In core, pure Druid with natural spell and enhanced summoning or pure Wizard is nearly brokenly good. Gishes (fighter-mages) are quite fun but tricky to play: Fighter1/Wizard6/Eldritch Knight10/xxx or Paladin2/Sorcerer8/Eldritch Knight10. Pure Clerics are very good when facing undead with Improved turning.
Rogue4/Swashbuckler8/Swordsage2/Teflammar Shadowlord6 with Daring Outlaw is D&D's Nightcrawler equivalent: can teleport and then deliver very accurate full attack sneak attacks.
Nightsong Enforcer and Dread Commando combine well to make a full plated roguish guerilla fighter. Cleric10/Ranger2/Consecrated Harrier6/Exorcist2 as a fun 'you can run but you can't hide' build, while elven Clerics make really good archers with Zen Archery.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4494 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 13:36:59
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Good builds are relative to the others in your party. Are you looking something specific or are you just curious about what different builds in general do? If your looking to play an effective fighter, then I'd suggest a human Fighter 4/ Crusader 13/ Exotic Weapon Master 3. It does require a 13 in Int and it's better if you have a high Dex. Here's the build in greater detail. (some help with the abbreviations.... EWP (Exotic Weapon Proficiency), Cru (Crusader class, detailed in Tome of Battle), EWM (exotic weapon master), XHB (Expanded Psionics Handbook), CW (Complete Warrior), PH2 (Player's Handbook 2),
Human fighter 4/crusader 13/exotic-weapon master 3
Ftr 1- EWP(spiked chain), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip (human)
Frt 2- Weapon Focus (spiked chain)
Ftr 3- Combat Reflexes
Ftr 4- Weapon Specialization (spiked chain)
Cru 1- (thicket of blades) stance, defensive rebuke maneuver
Cru 2- Stand Still (d20 hypertext site, SRD)
EWM 1- (exotic reach) ability
EWM 2- (trip attack) ability
EWM 3- Dodge (or Improved Buckler Defense); flurry of strikes ability
Cru 3
Cru 4
Cru 5- Robilar's Gambit(PH2)
Cru 6
Cru 7
Cru 8- Defensive Sweep (PH2)
Cru 9
Cru 10
Cru 11- Overwhelming Assault (PH2)
Cru 12
Cru 13
This build combines almost all of the usual reach and AoO optimization tricks and spends most of its time in the Thicket of Blades stance, with Stand Still and Improved trip to force an opponent to stand and face you.
The build then focuses on making this a lose-lose situation for your opponent. If they choose to attack you they trigger Robilar's Gambit to grant you AoOs and charge up your Furious Counterstrike ability. If they don't attack you then they trigger your Defensive Rebuke boost, and Defensive Sweep and Overwhelming Assault feats to grant you AoOs and bonuses on your attacks.
So, your opponent is punished if they (a) try and move away from you, (b) stand and attack you, and (c) stand and don't attack you. There aren't many good options left for them really.
As for other things this build brings is durability with the Crusader's Delayed Damage Pool, maneuvers that allow the character to move their full speed and do something extraordinary besides swinging once with their weapon, and a few other maneuvers that allow self-healing, so your not so much of a burden on your party's healer.
As for Maneuver/Stance selection outside of Thicket of Blades and Defensive Rebuke..it's pretty much open to do whatever you want. The feats are pretty important, however, and so I wouldn't change them up very much since it's geared totally towards tripping and AoOs. Ask your wizard to consistantly cast Enlarge Person on you and watch your reach go to 20' with that spiked chain  |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
Edited by - Diffan on 10 Aug 2011 13:42:03 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 14:50:48
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I've been playing a rogue/warlock in a low-level dungeon crawl lately, and the guy is just amazingly good. Summon swarm at will still ends fights at level 4, and the combination of high Dex and ranged touch attacks with eldritch blast makes it easy to hit people. My DM hates him. In a good way.
If the campaign continues, I'm eventually headed for Rogue 3/Warlock 6/Telflammar Shadowlord 4, which is, IMHO, an even better version of Nightcrawler, since you have teleport at will, and you don't need to worry about needing shadows. And, though I'm mostly warlock at the moment, I still have enough rogue skills to be half-way decent there for the rest of the party. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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mitchellboeck
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 17:40:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Good builds are relative to the others in your party. Are you looking something specific or are you just curious about what different builds in general do? If your looking to play an effective fighter, then I'd suggest a human Fighter 4/ Crusader 13/ Exotic Weapon Master 3. It does require a 13 in Int and it's better if you have a high Dex. Here's the build in greater detail. (some help with the abbreviations.... EWP (Exotic Weapon Proficiency), Cru (Crusader class, detailed in Tome of Battle), EWM (exotic weapon master), XHB (Expanded Psionics Handbook), CW (Complete Warrior), PH2 (Player's Handbook 2),
Human fighter 4/crusader 13/exotic-weapon master 3
Ftr 1- EWP(spiked chain), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip (human)
Frt 2- Weapon Focus (spiked chain)
Ftr 3- Combat Reflexes
Ftr 4- Weapon Specialization (spiked chain)
Cru 1- (thicket of blades) stance, defensive rebuke maneuver
Cru 2- Stand Still (d20 hypertext site, SRD)
EWM 1- (exotic reach) ability
EWM 2- (trip attack) ability
EWM 3- Dodge (or Improved Buckler Defense); flurry of strikes ability
Cru 3
Cru 4
Cru 5- Robilar's Gambit(PH2)
Cru 6
Cru 7
Cru 8- Defensive Sweep (PH2)
Cru 9
Cru 10
Cru 11- Overwhelming Assault (PH2)
Cru 12
Cru 13
This build combines almost all of the usual reach and AoO optimization tricks and spends most of its time in the Thicket of Blades stance, with Stand Still and Improved trip to force an opponent to stand and face you.
The build then focuses on making this a lose-lose situation for your opponent. If they choose to attack you they trigger Robilar's Gambit to grant you AoOs and charge up your Furious Counterstrike ability. If they don't attack you then they trigger your Defensive Rebuke boost, and Defensive Sweep and Overwhelming Assault feats to grant you AoOs and bonuses on your attacks.
So, your opponent is punished if they (a) try and move away from you, (b) stand and attack you, and (c) stand and don't attack you. There aren't many good options left for them really.
As for other things this build brings is durability with the Crusader's Delayed Damage Pool, maneuvers that allow the character to move their full speed and do something extraordinary besides swinging once with their weapon, and a few other maneuvers that allow self-healing, so your not so much of a burden on your party's healer.
As for Maneuver/Stance selection outside of Thicket of Blades and Defensive Rebuke..it's pretty much open to do whatever you want. The feats are pretty important, however, and so I wouldn't change them up very much since it's geared totally towards tripping and AoOs. Ask your wizard to consistantly cast Enlarge Person on you and watch your reach go to 20' with that spiked chain
Well I've looked around and I'm mostly looking for Ranger and possibly Druid builds now though I'm still very much open to other classes. That build sounds pretty great actually but I probably wont do it because we already have a fighter and barbarian out of 5 players. And I love enlarge person :) |
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mitchellboeck
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 17:41:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Kno
I'm thinking right now to start with psion, telepath. Then multiclass archivist and Cerebremancer. Leadership feat.
I was thinking psion but what is a cerebremancer? And I was thinking of going with the leadership feat with almost any class I have. |
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mitchellboeck
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 17:44:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
In core, pure Druid with natural spell and enhanced summoning or pure Wizard is nearly brokenly good. Gishes (fighter-mages) are quite fun but tricky to play: Fighter1/Wizard6/Eldritch Knight10/xxx or Paladin2/Sorcerer8/Eldritch Knight10. Pure Clerics are very good when facing undead with Improved turning.
Rogue4/Swashbuckler8/Swordsage2/Teflammar Shadowlord6 with Daring Outlaw is D&D's Nightcrawler equivalent: can teleport and then deliver very accurate full attack sneak attacks.
Nightsong Enforcer and Dread Commando combine well to make a full plated roguish guerilla fighter. Cleric10/Ranger2/Consecrated Harrier6/Exorcist2 as a fun 'you can run but you can't hide' build, while elven Clerics make really good archers with Zen Archery.
I do like fighter/wizards but if I was going to do that I'd probably go with the duskblade so I could avoid the ASF%. What books have the swordsage and shadowlord? |
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mitchellboeck
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 17:46:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I've been playing a rogue/warlock in a low-level dungeon crawl lately, and the guy is just amazingly good. Summon swarm at will still ends fights at level 4, and the combination of high Dex and ranged touch attacks with eldritch blast makes it easy to hit people. My DM hates him. In a good way.
If the campaign continues, I'm eventually headed for Rogue 3/Warlock 6/Telflammar Shadowlord 4, which is, IMHO, an even better version of Nightcrawler, since you have teleport at will, and you don't need to worry about needing shadows. And, though I'm mostly warlock at the moment, I still have enough rogue skills to be half-way decent there for the rest of the party.
My DM doesn't allow warlocks because he says they're overpowered. I havn't looked at it but if your that amazingly good then I'm guessing he's probably right unfortunately :/ |
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mitchellboeck
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 17:52:42
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| Hey guys if it helps then my party has a wise old Dwarf fighter that specializes with a spiked chain. A barbarian that got hooked on drugs (bull strength potion), a self serving bard, and a rouge/wizard/arcane trickster that used to lead a life of crime but the old Dwarf got him out of it now he's kinda a Robin Hood guy. Also, I will still look at every build you guys put up but Spicifically I may be looking at a ranger build because my party needs ranged and a druid just because they look interesting and I think they have some heals? That said I really don't want to be a healer unless theres a really good build for it. My party has been getting along great with just healing potions and were at the level now where we can afford them. If anyone has any cool role playing stuff to go along with their builds that would be amazing also. |
Edited by - mitchellboeck on 10 Aug 2011 17:54:55 |
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
124 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 18:36:16
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If Ranger, take spells from Spell Compendium, then go Peerless Archer from Silver Marches.
Then win. |
Brace Cormaeril |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 18:39:31
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quote:
Originally posted by mitchellboeck
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
In core, pure Druid with natural spell and enhanced summoning or pure Wizard is nearly brokenly good. Gishes (fighter-mages) are quite fun but tricky to play: Fighter1/Wizard6/Eldritch Knight10/xxx or Paladin2/Sorcerer8/Eldritch Knight10. Pure Clerics are very good when facing undead with Improved turning.
Rogue4/Swashbuckler8/Swordsage2/Teflammar Shadowlord6 with Daring Outlaw is D&D's Nightcrawler equivalent: can teleport and then deliver very accurate full attack sneak attacks.
Nightsong Enforcer and Dread Commando combine well to make a full plated roguish guerilla fighter. Cleric10/Ranger2/Consecrated Harrier6/Exorcist2 as a fun 'you can run but you can't hide' build, while elven Clerics make really good archers with Zen Archery.
I do like fighter/wizards but if I was going to do that I'd probably go with the duskblade so I could avoid the ASF%. What books have the swordsage and shadowlord?
Swordsage is in the Tome of Battle: the Book of Nine Swords and Teflammar Shadowlord is in the FR regionbook the Unapprouchable East.
In the Nightcrawler build I mentioned the late Swordsage levels are there just for getting access to the Shadowjaunt, Shadowstride and Shadowblink maneuvers from the Shadow Hand discipline. This way you can get up to 3 full attacks in a round: Jaunt as a standard action, Stride as a move action and Blink as a swift action. Though it's likely the Shadow Blink maneuver is only available to you when you reach epic level though, so you'll have to settle for two full attacks every other round during most of your adventuring time in the build. It really only starts to bamf-obliterate its foes from level 12 and up in the earliest possibility, but is a servisable melee rogue in the build-up towards that.
A good bet is to try and track down the optimisation handbooks on BrilliantGameologists.com that were written on all classes on the WotC boards ages ago. The Swift Hunter handbook is the least outdated Ranger handbook and the Druid handbook has some nice advise for cool druid builds. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 10 Aug 2011 18:43:38 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4494 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 19:20:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Saer Cormaeril
If Ranger, take spells from Spell Compendium, then go Peerless Archer from Silver Marches.
Then win.
THIS!! Or take levels of the Justice of Weald and Woe for spliting arrows :). |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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mitchellboeck
Acolyte
23 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 19:40:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Saer Cormaeril
If Ranger, take spells from Spell Compendium, then go Peerless Archer from Silver Marches.
Then win.
THIS!! Or take levels of the Justice of Weald and Woe for spliting arrows :).
I don't have the Silver Marches book can someone give me a link to the class or a pdf of Silver Marches? Also what book in the Justice of Weald and Woe in? |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4494 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 19:56:16
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quote:
Originally posted by mitchellboeck
I don't have the Silver Marches book can someone give me a link to the class or a pdf of Silver Marches? Also what book in the Justice of Weald and Woe in?
The Justice of Weald and Woe is in Champions of Ruin and depending on how you look at the PrC, you might have to be involved with the Eldruth Veluthra. Though it's not a specific requirement. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 20:13:29
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quote:
Originally posted by mitchellboeck
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Saer Cormaeril
If Ranger, take spells from Spell Compendium, then go Peerless Archer from Silver Marches.
Then win.
THIS!! Or take levels of the Justice of Weald and Woe for spliting arrows :).
I don't have the Silver Marches book can someone give me a link to the class or a pdf of Silver Marches? Also what book in the Justice of Weald and Woe in?
There are no longer any legally available downloads of Silver Marches. Any downloads remaining out there are illegal and thus against the rules of Candlekeep to assist in looking for or providing links to. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2011 : 20:34:12
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quote:
Originally posted by mitchellboeck
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I've been playing a rogue/warlock in a low-level dungeon crawl lately, and the guy is just amazingly good. Summon swarm at will still ends fights at level 4, and the combination of high Dex and ranged touch attacks with eldritch blast makes it easy to hit people. My DM hates him. In a good way.
If the campaign continues, I'm eventually headed for Rogue 3/Warlock 6/Telflammar Shadowlord 4, which is, IMHO, an even better version of Nightcrawler, since you have teleport at will, and you don't need to worry about needing shadows. And, though I'm mostly warlock at the moment, I still have enough rogue skills to be half-way decent there for the rest of the party.
My DM doesn't allow warlocks because he says they're overpowered. I havn't looked at it but if your that amazingly good then I'm guessing he's probably right unfortunately :/
Any DM that says a warlock is overpowered has never seen a properly run druid. Or cleric. Or wizard. Any of them will wipe the floor with any possible warlock build once past level 4 or so, and with the druid, probably even sooner. A warlock is a Tier 3 class at best; fun, and useful, but nowhere close to powerful.
My guy is great, but only in a group. Unlike a d/c/w (or archivist) I can't solo a dungeon; I need other people. Specifically, I do the battlefield control and debuffs with my swarms, while our barbarian and cleric dish out most of the damage. We also have a ranger, who doesn't do a whole lot.
The warlock really is worth arguing with your DM to get included. If the DM allows druids, he ought to allow warlocks. You'll do best in the first few levels of the game, start to wither in the mid, and then collapse completely at high level. But then again, so does anyone who isn't a wizard, druid, or cleric. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4494 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2011 : 04:35:06
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I'd have to second Hoondatha's estimation of the Warlock. It's not powerful in the slightest. It may seem so with it's at-will Eldritch Blast and blast shape evocations, but aside from that it lacks in many areas.
Now, a warlock 3/ wizard 3/ eldritch theurge (complete mage) isn't a bad choice. Forget Charisma entirely (focus on spell-like evocations and blast shape evocations) and just bump Intelligence and Dexterity and you have a pretty decent character. The at-will powers of the warlock (and eldritch blast) can take center stage as the go-tos of the character, leaving him more room for spell versatility, scroll-making, and being a guy with the right tool for the job. However, you'll need to invest heavily on your Dex to keep up with the Wizard/eldritch theurge's pitiful BAB. Luckily, it's always a Ranged touch attack. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2011 : 06:51:17
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all the 3.0 material is still good, unless it got re did for 3.5.... and then its debaeable with the dm...
which means
ranger 10/ deepwoods sniper 10 works.( deepwood sniper is in the masters of the wild)
otherwsie
ranger 10/ peerless archer 10
Ranger 10/ order of the bow initiate 10
unless you plan on twf...
RAnger x/ tempest x
ranger 20
ranger x/ class x( I forget which class this was)
one the otherhand
you could take rogue 3/ paladin 7/ shadowbane inquisitor 10 and play a character using the prc that inspired Erik Scott DeBie's Shadowbane. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2011 : 21:36:37
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We don't really follow official rules. Anyway, my new arcanist character for Kingmaker will be pretty powerful. Psion-shaper-transmuter focused on the astral construct power and skin of the construct feat.
Also with some swordsage maneuvers and stances, powers and spells like grease, skate, rhino's rush and fist of stone. Plus including Sign of One, House Cannith and Technic League affinities, Iron Kingdoms feats a skills, and a paracletus aeon symbiont that replaces the psicrystal. I'm thinking PF Alchemist's bomb on top of all, lol. |
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Phentari
Acolyte
6 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2011 : 04:57:40
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If you're going the ranger route, a Ranger/Scout with Swift Hunter, Greater Manyshot, and Improved Skirmish is a nice, solid, no-nonsense damage dealer.
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2011 : 02:20:56
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| I'm searching for some good Feats and PrC's for a character of mine who wields a (popular these days) Spiked Chain. My DM has been gracious enough to allow me both the Drow Skirmisher and Drow Scorpion Warrior Feats from Secrets of Xen'drik. My next choice, I think, will be Weapon Finesse. I had thought to perhaps take the Exotic Weapon Master PrC or Master of Chains, but the latter has a lot of prereqs for a non-monk. I am NOT looking for a crazy lockdown AoO build, just a few tricks that may help me survive a solo campaign. Thank you, Diffan for posting that. I have seen several variations of this and all include the Thicket of Blades, but I'm not looking to go down that path. Is it worth it to pick up Improved Trip and Disarm (and Combat Expertise) anyway? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 28 Aug 2011 02:25:41 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2011 : 02:30:08
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quote:
Big Blue Wooly Rupert
There are no longer any legally available downloads of Silver Marches. Any downloads remaining out there are illegal and thus against the rules of Candlekeep to assist in looking for or providing links to.
That being said, you'll find innumerable scrolls which link to downloads which are free and legal. The Wizards 3.5 archives are a fine place to start. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Good Builds
