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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2004 : 15:29:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Hmmm...you raise an interesting point Elrond. I had forgotten that some FR gamers may have missed out on the 2e Waterdeep material, even though there was quite a lot of it. I guess that's why this new tome has failed to really generate any excitable interest in me. Although, being about Waterdeep, I'll purchase it anyway...However with the amount of 2e material already published on the City of Splendors, the question to ask is...How much more can they fit into the city in order to write more material about it...? 
I'm really surprised you say this. In most cases, published Realmslore only scratches the surface of what Ed has developed -- his boxes of notes number in the scores, and this is the misfortune of Realms publishing, that we get relatively brief amounts of heavily brand-managed source material, plus a limited output of Ed's stuff through Dragon and wizards.com at a rate that will take hundreds of years to match what he has already written (though not in slick publishable form).
There is far, far more to be said about Waterdeep, the Heartlands, and the Sword Coast North (the other areas have mostly been developed as off-map fables) than has been published. Look at the fecundity of the Waterdeep material in the "Realmslore" column, or the treatment of Voonlar in "Elminster Speaks". Isolating Luruar from the North Coast North allowed Silver Marches to have mostly new material; though a 192-page 3E book on Waterdeep is liable to have 40 pages of spurious rules material, 100 pages sampling the published Waterdeep lore, and 50 pages of new stuff.
Some people have a perception that areas like the Dalelands are 'overdeveloped'. It has one Volo's Guide and one mediocre 64-page FRS-series sourcebook, and a load of references elsewhere. To this day locations like Castle Krag haven't been mapped in print. And Ed has DMed there for 20 years! |
Edited by - Faraer on 02 Feb 2004 15:32:50 |
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Elrond Half Elven
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
322 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2004 : 21:10:19
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quote:
Posted by Edain:
Well, since I am a Waterdeep nut, I can never say no the a Waterdeep novel or expansion book, however I would not be opposed to seeing detial on other regions, such as the Sword Coast, Amn, Cormyr, and some of the hereto lesser developed areas of Faerun. Still, part of me would love a new Waterdeep book. However, the point made about lots of underground related books is pertinate, and one I had not stopped and thought about. Honestly, this whole subterranean thing is getting stale, mainly the Drow portion fo it, but in general we need some nice above ground products for a while...like a Waterdeep book...now. (Do It!)
In my honest opinion detailing Drow is how WoTC sell their products. WoTC are simply cashing in on the series of novels concerning a certian Drow Ranger. Now I'm not for once saying that these are good books, not at all, all I am saying is that these books are what lead to a sudden rush in buying of products, and also alot of new gamers playing Good Drow Rangers.
WoTC would be doing better I think creating some new material for relatively unknown areas. Or areas that have already been covered in older Editions- Not everyone has access to the material.
Before everyone just on the bandwagon and says, Yeah sure Elrond but these are Generic guides, let me just say this, FR is without a doubt WoTC biggest seeling campaign setting, why can't they produce more products for it, rather than forcing us to buy, generic products detailing information that a) we have or b) will conflict with the already present Realms sources.
Personally I won't be buying this books for those two reasons. (The Races of Stone book). At the end of the day we have the Races of Faerun book, and I'm not going to allow my players the ability to go anyother subraces of Dwarves from the ones presented in that book and FRCS! I'm sorry, I just don't see the point forking out the money!
Hanx
Elrond (Sorry for the rant) |
Once upon a midnight dreary, while i pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore-
While i nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
-The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2004 : 13:36:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Hmmm...you raise an interesting point Elrond. I had forgotten that some FR gamers may have missed out on the 2e Waterdeep material, even though there was quite a lot of it. I guess that's why this new tome has failed to really generate any excitable interest in me. Although, being about Waterdeep, I'll purchase it anyway...However with the amount of 2e material already published on the City of Splendors, the question to ask is...How much more can they fit into the city in order to write more material about it...?
I'm really surprised you say this. In most cases, published Realmslore only scratches the surface of what Ed has developed -- his boxes of notes number in the scores, and this is the misfortune of Realms publishing, that we get relatively brief amounts of heavily brand-managed source material, plus a limited output of Ed's stuff through Dragon and wizards.com at a rate that will take hundreds of years to match what he has already written (though not in slick publishable form).
There is far, far more to be said about Waterdeep, the Heartlands, and the Sword Coast North (the other areas have mostly been developed as off-map fables) than has been published. Look at the fecundity of the Waterdeep material in the "Realmslore" column, or the treatment of Voonlar in "Elminster Speaks". Isolating Luruar from the North Coast North allowed Silver Marches to have mostly new material; though a 192-page 3E book on Waterdeep is liable to have 40 pages of spurious rules material, 100 pages sampling the published Waterdeep lore, and 50 pages of new stuff.
Some people have a perception that areas like the Dalelands are 'overdeveloped'. It has one Volo's Guide and one mediocre 64-page FRS-series sourcebook, and a load of references elsewhere. To this day locations like Castle Krag haven't been mapped in print. And Ed has DMed there for 20 years!
I see your point Faraer...Perhaps I was a little hasty in my judgement. Either way, even considering the about of Realmslore that is currently sitting in several hundred boxes in Ed's basement, it would still be nice to see the focus on regional sourcebooks shift into a region that has seen virtually no development in either 2e or 3e.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2004 : 07:46:37
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I may be new to here but Ive been playing since there was a D&D game and I really want to say that The Realms are what truly took hold of me and have never let go, Thank you Mr Greenwood I LOVE FR!
In keeping with that theme it was the Fluf (the new term for grand detail and design) the really got me, but when it comes to new products I have a few opinions;
First, though Mr G has tons of great detail and designs, I've come to love some of the d20 products from other companies that I integrated with my campaign ( It's fanatsy, is there ever too much?)
Second, through the years I've come to notice the REAL FR fans love MR G's Fluf and more, but that is not what WOTC markets to, It's crunch, crunch, crunch, I wonder why they even came up with this new Eberon campaign world sometimes, are they afraid of being to reliant upon Mr G and FR, sometimes I wonder, Its sad really IMO. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2004 : 13:03:40
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Actually, I like the fact that WotC appears to be changing trends a little, with regard to their 'official' campaign settings. Diversification is a good thing, at least for fantasy worlds, and while there may not be as many complete campaigns settings published by WotC now as there was in the earlier TSR/WotC days, I don't think that the Forgotten Realms should be WotC only officially supported setting (at this present point in time - remember, Eberron hasn't been released yet...). With Greyhawk officially on the 'dormant' list, and no previous 2e settings seeing rebirth, the time is ripe for new and interesting settings that will (we can only hope) strive to break the traditional mold of Tolkien-based campaign settings.
Monte Cook has shown that it can be done, just look at Arcana Unearthed...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2004 : 14:33:11
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Although I have little interest in the Eberron campaign setting (the Realms suit me just fine, thankee), I can understand WotC's marketing approach. After all, we've been receiving Realmslore from them for almost 20 years now. How much more can they legitimately develop fluffiness for the regions that will still have a broad market appeal? We have sourcebooks for most of the regions of the Realms already, and while I would die to have a detailed, in-depth hardcover 200 page resource expanding Damara and Vaasa, I already have FR9, plus my imagination and the collective musings of Realms fans on these and other boards.
Releasing a new campaign setting is the smartest way to get us to shell out our hard-earned cash, because it's all-new material, not rehash or updates on previous publications. |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2004 : 14:36:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, I like the fact that WotC appears to be changing trends a little, with regard to their 'official' campaign settings. Diversification is a good thing, at least for fantasy worlds, and while there may not be as many complete campaigns settings published by WotC now as there was in the earlier TSR/WotC days, I don't think that the Forgotten Realms should be WotC only officially supported setting (at this present point in time - remember, Eberron hasn't been released yet...). With Greyhawk officially on the 'dormant' list, and no previous 2e settings seeing rebirth, the time is ripe for new and interesting settings that will (we can only hope) strive to break the traditional mold of Tolkien-based campaign settings.
Monte Cook has shown that it can be done, just look at Arcana Unearthed...
Yes, I can certainly see the point your making above. I'm just curious to see the results of Eberron's popularity or perhaps more the promotional push to make it popular. Right now, the amount of FR releases does not at all seem to be affected in any way by Eberron or the marketing for the setting. I hope it continues that way.
Additionally, I'm curious to see if the current crop of semifinalists for WOTC's setting search being released at all affect Eberron. You have Goodman Games releasing Morningstar and Fantasy Flight Games releasing Dawnforge. Add those to Monte Cook's setting, Bastion Press' Oathbound, and it seems that it's getting quite crowded. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2004 : 14:40:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
Although I have little interest in the Eberron campaign setting (the Realms suit me just fine, thankee), I can understand WotC's marketing approach. After all, we've been receiving Realmslore from them for almost 20 years now. How much more can they legitimately develop fluffiness for the regions that will still have a broad market appeal? We have sourcebooks for most of the regions of the Realms already, and while I would die to have a detailed, in-depth hardcover 200 page resource expanding Damara and Vaasa, I already have FR9, plus my imagination and the collective musings of Realms fans on these and other boards.
Releasing a new campaign setting is the smartest way to get us to shell out our hard-earned cash, because it's all-new material, not rehash or updates on previous publications.
Well rumor has it that published FR material is there mere tip of the iceberg in relation to the amount of Realmslore within Ed Greenwoods basement 
Personally, "fluff" is what makes the Realms, you can keep the "crunch" for all I care, theres the D&D core rulebooks for that, the detail that makes the Realms great is what keeps me so interested. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2004 : 16:47:29
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I'd just like to mention, Elrond, that it is currently the Year of the Drow. I don't think it's a coincidence that WotC chose to make this Realmsian year to focus on such a popular race, but if I'm not mistaken the year's coming to a close. Soon we shall see other races and events.
At least we'd better. I want some dragons! |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2004 : 04:34:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, I think 2002-2003 was the 'Year of the Drow', at least according to the WotC 'Drow Special Features' page...
They need a new promo for this year! Yuan-Ti? Dragons? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2004 : 04:47:38
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Indeed they do, and given WotCs recent focus on Dragons of late (namely the Draconomicon, FR's Rage of Dragons, and the other few products released), I think 'Year of Dragons' would fit quite nicely...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2004 : 16:09:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Indeed they do, and given WotCs recent focus on Dragons of late (namely the Draconomicon, FR's Rage of Dragons, and the other few products released), I think 'Year of Dragons' would fit quite nicely...
I agree especially since Richard Lee Byers reported in his "Ask the Author" thread that The Rage is clearly being viewed as an RSE by WOTC. Then again, perhaps WOTC plans no special promo for this year as it is getting rather late. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2004 : 05:10:56
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| Speaking of future releases.Elminsters Daughter,which is slated to come out in May of this year.Does it also have the potential to be an RSE???Just by reading the little promo in the back of Venom's Taste,and I qoute,"Amidst a vast conspriracy to overthrow all order in the realms!"Or am I just reeading too much into it?? |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2004 : 08:28:51
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Perhaps, but then old Mr. Greenwood does like to keep everyone in great anticipation. My guess is, when it comes to Elminster, or anything related to him, it's a sure bet that it will effect the greater Realms in same way or fashion.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2004 : 17:11:34
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
Speaking of future releases.Elminsters Daughter,which is slated to come out in May of this year.Does it also have the potential to be an RSE???Just by reading the little promo in the back of Venom's Taste,and I qoute,"Amidst a vast conspriracy to overthrow all order in the realms!"Or am I just reeading too much into it??
Not sure about Elminster's Daughter being an RSE. Nothing in Smedman's book gave any connection to the hints about ED that Ed Greenwood has provided in his author thread.
I think the quote you mentioned is just a good cover blurb combined with perhaps a tie-in to some more information we might get in the Serpent Kingdoms book. However, the best place to find out for sure is to ask Mr. Greenwood in his thread. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2004 : 17:17:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Perhaps, but then old Mr. Greenwood does like to keep everyone in great anticipation. My guess is, when it comes to Elminster, or anything related to him, it's a sure bet that it will effect the greater Realms in same way or fashion.
I got the impression this might be a bit more personal level only carried out over various Realms locations. Although, when it does come to Elminster, personal, can end up affecting more than normal.
Perhaps the sample chapter might provide us some clues. I saw that one is up now for this novel:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/frnovel/965400000 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 01:11:02
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As I said...
However, this link to the sample chapter (BTW thanks Sirius), does seem to support a little of what you were saying about a personal tale...I suppose we'll just have to wait until the complete novel is released.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 04:25:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
However, this link to the sample chapter (BTW thanks Sirius), does seem to support a little of what you were saying about a personal tale...I suppose we'll just have to wait until the complete novel is released.
You're welcome.
The new sample chapters I've read of this work and The Rage have me even more excited about the release of these novels.
Some nice cameos in that ED sample chapter and if it's a personal tale, it certainly is one that might involve some serious issues facing Cormyr. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 16 Mar 2004 04:26:02 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 05:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
There's a sample chapter for The Rage...?
I had no idea. Do you have a link Sirius...?
There's two sample chapters now out for that novel. The first was at the end of The Black Boquet. Did you see that one?
The second I stumbled onto the other day when I saw the sample chapter for Elminster's Daughter. It can be found below
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/frnovel/965360000
Let me know if there are any problems getting to that link.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 16:41:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ah...I was aware of the sample chapter from Byer's The Black Bouquet. I must have missed the sample chapter on the WotC site though.
Thanks again Sirius...
You're welcome. The reason you missed it is because the WOTC site refuses to advertise any update of the novel section. It's like the people that think novels aren't canon are in charge of the web site updates. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 18:55:00
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ah...I was aware of the sample chapter from Byer's The Black Bouquet. I must have missed the sample chapter on the WotC site though.
Thanks again Sirius...
You're welcome. The reason you missed it is because the WOTC site refuses to advertise any update of the novel section. It's like the people that think novels aren't canon are in charge of the web site updates.
Probably because you not allowed to even say the word novel on WOTC's boards without getting a warning. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2004 : 22:40:27
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
You're welcome. The reason you missed it is because the WOTC site refuses to advertise any update of the novel section. It's like the people that think novels aren't canon are in charge of the web site updates.
GRRR  This has been getting my back up for a long time now. There was a period of about 2 weeks where Novel section announcements did get featured on the FR home page. Why oh why do they still not do so, it makes no sense whatsoever.
This brings me to another point....does anyone still get the emails from WotC detailing all the various updates? I subscribed to the mailing list when it first started (from liaison@WIZARDS.COM) but havent had anything since the end of 2002! Just reminded me. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 00:24:28
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Rad, I've had two updates since the period you last heard anything from WotC. The first update came in on 21st January 2003 outlining some of the new products to be released over the coming months, and the other in August 2003, which informed me of the DLCS's release.
Since that update last August, I've heard nothing but ethereal static from WotC...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 04:47:34
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Probably because you not allowed to even say the word novel on WOTC's boards without getting a warning. :)
Oh my Goddess! You're right! Can you imagine what an update would be if it was posted:
From: WOTC Webmaster
To: FR Messageboard
Message: Hi! I just wanted to drop you a quick note to let you know we have a [moderator deleted] up right now for Ed Greenwood's new [moderator deleted]. This exciting new [moderator deleted] will cover [moderator deleted] and be released in May of this year. I hope you all enjoy the [moderator deleted]. Good gaming. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2004 : 04:49:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Rad
This brings me to another point....does anyone still get the emails from WotC detailing all the various updates? I subscribed to the mailing list when it first started (from liaison@WIZARDS.COM) but havent had anything since the end of 2002! Just reminded me.
Never even knew they did that. They are having problems with that update function as well? Color me stunned. <we really, really need a rolling eyes smilie icon that would go right here about now> |
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Future FR Releases
