| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 15:28:42
|
|
I'm curious as to what happens to a mortal's soul who worships a demonlord, then dies? Do they go to live with that demon?
|
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 16:11:32
|
They'd be stationed on the fugue plane with a 'demon-worshipper label' on them. There's a chance they would get a offer by one of the evil deities emmissaries to join them in their afterlife if they'd be interesting (read powerful or high level) enough.
Likely they'll get taken by force by the periodic raids demons do on the fugue plane. Their allegiance to the demonic forces would likely give them an 'attractive scent' for demons and they'll be one of the first to get taken into the Abyss.
In the Abyss their sould would become one with the great pit. Theres a chance their form will come back transmogrified into a lesser demon like a dretch.
Here is some cool fluff detailing the experience |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
 |
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 17:04:14
|
| Will their souls be with their Demon Lord? |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 17:18:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
Will their souls be with their Demon Lord?
I guess that depends on the demon lord. I'm not under the impression that a demon lord's power correlates directly to the number and strength of its worshippers the way a god's power does, so it's entirely plausible that a demon lord would simply abandon his/her worshippers after death, because they're pretty much useless at that point.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 17:29:57
|
Bladewind has the right of it. Erendril, when a demon-worshipper dies, it's not quite the same as if they worshipped a deity. All souls go to the Fugue Plane upon death, where they may be judged by the reigning god of the dead. Spells one had in life, powers and other abilities, are gone; petitioners are just "soul stuff". If one faithfully worshipped a deity, they qualify for being picked up quickly by agents of the god.
Those that have no faith, or who betrayed a god, they're judged. The God of the Dead takes some of those into his service (the betrayers), or plasters them into the Wall of the Faithless (those that had no faith at all) where they slowly disintegrate.
Those that worshipped a demon are marked, and only demonic agents will "pick them up" for transport to the Abyss (or the Nine Hells, if they worshipped a devil). Demons are allowed to raid the Fugue Plane and take souls that are unclaimed by a deity. Once in the Abyss, such souls are mere property and used as currency. Some, who were powerful mortals in life, can morph into weak demons called dretches, which are then usually tortured for pure whimsy, used as "better" currency, or used as power sources for various spells. So, assuming one made a pact with a specific demon lord... yes, you might get taken to it. But once there, such a soul is no better than any other and might be traded to another demon lord for a secret, a magic item, or promises of future service.
Edit: Erik is also correct. Unlike deities, souls don't give extra power to demons. The real advantage to having worshippers is when they're alive, so they can be corrupted and also lead others away from worship of the deities. The only real use for souls by demons in the afterlife is for sport (hunting them in games, torturing them, etc.) or for using them as base currency.
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 19 Jul 2011 17:35:07 |
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 17:50:16
|
| That's kind of boring and cliche. |
|
|
|
Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 18:29:58
|
| Cliché? In which sense? |
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 18:33:29
|
| Demons are always evil, they're ultimately bad, it's all black and white, so on and so forth..... |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 19:35:05
|
I think that's rather the point: demons are totally evil, literally made of Abyssal chaos energy (or "elemental chaos energy" as it would be called in 4E). They're utterly without redemption, and their intention is to lie, cheat, steal, do whatever is "necessary" to corrupt mortals away from the worship of the gods. When they promise things to mortals with honeyed whispers and a light touch, they're tricking people.
Watering down evil doesn't make much sense in an RPG. Sure, you could have a "demon" take you to Disneyland and buy you cotton candy, care about you personally and set up a tax shelter for you, but then it wouldn't actually BE a demon any longer.
It isn't "black and white" so much as it's definitional.
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
|
|
|
Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 20:02:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
I think that's rather the point: demons are totally evil, literally made of Abyssal chaos energy (or "elemental chaos energy" as it would be called in 4E). They're utterly without redemption, and their intention is to lie, cheat, steal, do whatever is "necessary" to corrupt mortals away from the worship of the gods. When they promise things to mortals with honeyed whispers and a light touch, they're tricking people.
Watering down evil doesn't make much sense in an RPG. Sure, you could have a "demon" take you to Disneyland and buy you cotton candy, care about you personally and set up a tax shelter for you, but then it wouldn't actually BE a demon any longer.
It isn't "black and white" so much as it's definitional.
I agree, though I would maybe substitute "RPG" with "DnD".
One might call it "cliche", but having between 99.9% and 100% of all demons being evil is a constitutional part of the DnD alignment system/cosmology, I think. |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 20:09:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Thieran
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
I think that's rather the point: demons are totally evil, literally made of Abyssal chaos energy (or "elemental chaos energy" as it would be called in 4E). They're utterly without redemption, and their intention is to lie, cheat, steal, do whatever is "necessary" to corrupt mortals away from the worship of the gods. When they promise things to mortals with honeyed whispers and a light touch, they're tricking people.
Watering down evil doesn't make much sense in an RPG. Sure, you could have a "demon" take you to Disneyland and buy you cotton candy, care about you personally and set up a tax shelter for you, but then it wouldn't actually BE a demon any longer.
It isn't "black and white" so much as it's definitional.
I agree, though I would maybe substitute "RPG" with "DnD".
One might call it "cliche", but having between 99.9% and 100% of all demons being evil is a constitutional part of the DnD alignment system/cosmology, I think.
Agreed. And you're right, I should've put D&D instead of RPG.
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2011 : 21:38:03
|
But it is so boring and sickeningly cliche. I would like evil to neutral deomns, just because someting comes from a dark place, doesn't mean it has to be evil. In my fantasy setting, it is much different.
I have demons generally based around (loosely) the seven deadly sins.
The Greater Demons:
Incubi and Succubi are more concerned with sex, lust, and debauchery. They wouldn't want to destroy the world because that would mean no more sex, lust, and debauchery. Though they can be pretty nasty when they don't get what they want or are attacked or provoked. They are also overly concerned with vanity/beauty in everything from creatures, artwork, land, and music.
Ten'zroks are the demons who embody anger and envy and strife. They seek to dominate and enslave every other creature in the multiverse. They are even warry of their own kind who will not hesitate to turn on them. Their current mission, right now, is to gain control of all of the Nine Gates of Hell, from there, they can dominate all of the other demons and begin their invasion of the other realms. Iffoths are demons who embody gluttony and sloth. They like to enlsave and have extremely high psychic powers. They look hideous-bloated bodies that are too heavy to be able to walk. Most use their telechenetic powers to move objects and dominate others. Lesser Demons- Shadow Demon: humanoid demons that somewhat resemble the cubatic demons, but with dark grey skin, black hair, and glowing red eyes. Imps-mischevious demons who serve any of the greater demons (there are more, I just haven't really fleshed them out yet) |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2011 : 01:05:21
|
I was under the vague impression that the souls of purely chaotic evil villains typically end up being cast into the bottomless pits of the Abyss. There the strongest, quickest, most cunning - and above all - most inhumanly vile and sadistic and abusive of these souls might manage to survive and perhaps begin to ascend the fiendish ranks (rank in terms of demonic tanar'ri really means accumulation of raw unopposable power and dominion over inferiors). The rest of these souls, which is to say the astronomically overwhelming majority of them, are basically just enslaved hordes of demonic cannon fodder. A more accurate label might be "food" since they provide the eternal suffering, fear, anger, and hatred from which the higher evolved demons derive their spiritual sustenance. Over time they too are changed by the Abyss, losing their identities and memories, hollow shells who remember only chaos and evil and suffering.
The higher fiends tend to be specialized, each breed has a taste for a different flavour of spiritual sustenance and has been adapted to whatever niche allows them to most efficiently gain such sustenance. While balors might obviously inspire terror, succubi sorts of fiends inspire corruption and deceit and jealousy by assuming beautifully seductive forms ... their ultimate goal is still to taint mortal souls with evil and drag them to the lower planes. Mortal pleasures of flesh in exchange for immortal suffering of spirit, succubi function more like predatory parasites than beautiful partners. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 20 Jul 2011 01:21:43 |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2011 : 03:39:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I was under the vague impression that the souls of purely chaotic evil villains typically end up being cast into the bottomless pits of the Abyss. There the strongest, quickest, most cunning - and above all - most inhumanly vile and sadistic and abusive of these souls might manage to survive and perhaps begin to ascend the fiendish ranks (rank in terms of demonic tanar'ri really means accumulation of raw unopposable power and dominion over inferiors). The rest of these souls, which is to say the astronomically overwhelming majority of them, are basically just enslaved hordes of demonic cannon fodder. A more accurate label might be "food" since they provide the eternal suffering, fear, anger, and hatred from which the higher evolved demons derive their spiritual sustenance. Over time they too are changed by the Abyss, losing their identities and memories, hollow shells who remember only chaos and evil and suffering.
The higher fiends tend to be specialized, each breed has a taste for a different flavour of spiritual sustenance and has been adapted to whatever niche allows them to most efficiently gain such sustenance. While balors might obviously inspire terror, succubi sorts of fiends inspire corruption and deceit and jealousy by assuming beautifully seductive forms ... their ultimate goal is still to taint mortal souls with evil and drag them to the lower planes. Mortal pleasures of flesh in exchange for immortal suffering of spirit, succubi function more like predatory parasites than beautiful partners.
Not all souls in the Abyss are CE, though. Demonic raids can capture souls of other alignments (although this is somewhat rare), and then become the property of various demons.
Those that did worship demons in life, whether CE or NE or whatnot, they can't be petitioners of any deity; they will most likely end up as "manes" in the Abyss, as only demons would collect them from the Fugue Plane. Once there, extremely crafty manes might "rise through the ranks" as it were, but it's more likely that they'll end up as footsoldiers for the demon armies, be traded as property, tortured for sport, or simply end up dissolving into the Abyssal "stuff" of the layer they're taken into. As you say, they might also be treated as sustenance (generated from the fear and constant torture) or used as energy-stuff for various spells.
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
|
|
|
bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2011 : 05:25:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
I'm curious as to what happens to a mortal's soul who worships a demonlord, then dies? Do they go to live with that demon?
About demonlords, is this reference limited to balors, mariliths & nabassu's, or does it also include gods/goddesses that have measures of omnipresence & make their home in the Abyss w/the demons, such as Umberlee?
If it's in reference to gods/goddesses, then the answer is according to their doctrines, how faithful the worshipper was to the diety, solely according to the deity's judgement.
If it's in reference solely to demonlords, who don't have high measures of omnipresence as they're not gods, then I guess what happens to the mortal's soul is strictly up to how well the demon trusts & likes the mortal in question (I guess its much like the relationship between god/goddess & worshipper, w/the absence of high measures of omnipresence; thus the bold, more likely foolish, mortal can seek to manipulate the situation). There are many demons different competing for resources, and most 'primes' aren't hip to know which demon is 'more profitable' to serve than the next. In fact, I'm sure most folk native to the Planes don't know either, even those dwelling in the Lower ones. Both the demon (and devil) worshipers on Prime Material worlds & the Planes juss go as their vices lead them, according to the opportunities afforded to them.
And then there's the whole 'deal w/curses that come by upsetting those faithful who've been chosen by a deity or other planar power (or both)' or 'deal w/the curses that come by hurting those that the deity or planar power had under their jurisdiction.' And then there's the whole bit of infighting within the Abyss wherein one demonlord destroys another (and thus the defeated one is rendered back to the lowest level of demonology, now larvae unto becoming dretch, mane or rutterkin; this from their former true, greater, guardian, and lesser status') and takes the people that were in service to the defeated one, and to do as he will with them regardless of the defeated one's wishes. And then there's the souls who choose to then serve an evil aligned god/goddess after learning serving their 'personal demon' (pun fully intended) isn't as profitable as serving the newly sought evil deity, who are then caught in various limbos as there's no guarantee the deity they now seek would even accept their worship, nor is there any guarantee another demon would sponsor them, nor is there any guarantee the original demon they were in service to would go back to the original status of the relationship etc. And then there's whole deal again w/devils in the same way. And then there's the whole 'what goes around, comes around' truism that could end up biting the demon worshiper at the worst possible time in the Planes, if the previous things I mentioned didn't come into play. And then there's the whole getting lost in the shuffle b/c the Abyss is freakin' huge! And then there's the whole NOT ABLE to get lost in the shuffle despite the Abyss being freakin' huge, due to highly probable enslavement w/no guarantee of those in the lower, higher, or middle planes caring at all about the Abyssal slaves' plight.
I figure the politicking that goes on regarding thier soul is significantly much more complicated than it is for those who serve good-aligned deities. Ditto for the complexity on the devil side of things.
No matter the circumstance, stay in the favour of 'good,' dear friends! Keep your consciences clear, so to not ever let your immortal soul be involved in the politRicKs that go on in the Lower Planes (and I wrote that without going against CK's rules; juss stating a normal rule of wisdom, for both RL and your campaigns, for RP purposes of course! ).
|
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2011 : 06:43:48
|
But darkness is so awesome! I'm creating a Thrall of Graz'zt, and I was curios as to where his soul would end up. Just to pipe something in-if demons don't give a poopy about the souls of their followers, then what about Lolth? She seemed to take care of her follower's souls quite well.
Mod edit: Watch the language, please.  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 20 Jul 2011 10:43:04 |
|
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2011 : 08:56:31
|
She does not count as demon in FR setting. More a deity. And that is why she takes a little more care for souls. But just a little. Like all deities, she can absorb souls to increase her power, in her case, without a consent. And some souls become her minions.
My favorite of demons is Grazzt. He has style, since he was devil. And if I had to choose between schizoid mandril demon and undead demon(who is also cool), I would choose third, Grazzt. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2011 : 14:45:07
|
| But she was a demon lord before..... |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2011 : 17:53:55
|
Lolth is still a demon lord, and she's a greater deity; she's both at the same time. Her status as a deity allows her more flexibility in what she can do with the souls she collects, as she gains additional power (unlike other demon lords) directly from worship and from dead souls she accepts as petitioners. As she's also a demon lord, she can do things with souls that demon lords typically do: use them for currency, torture them for her own pleasure, etc. Lolth has options.
I'm not sure I'd exactly call it "good care" in Lolth's afterlife, though. The souls of her dead petitioners morph into manes that look like ugly, deformed drow, where they essentially continue to partake in competitive backstabbing and power-struggles like they did in life. Some of the most favored are morphed into higher level demons, perhaps even Yochlol (there's a line somewhere that suggest her most favored matron mothers can become Yochlol upon their mortal death... but honestly that may just be fan speculation as I can't find a reference for that). OTOH, her faithful may actually consider that type of life to be a reward, so... anyway...
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 20 Jul 2011 17:56:17 |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2011 : 04:46:22
|
| Nope, Eltheron, it's not just speculation- I've seen that too, and I pay little attention to fan-based speculation in regards to Lolth and drow. Lolth's standing is- complicated. She is a goddess-turned-demonlord-turned-goddess-again. She was stripped of her divine status and regained it through treachery, deceit, and back-stabbing, not unlike the gains of rank achieved by many of her followers. She cares little for her followers except as fodder in her schemes or to increase her power, and most of her petitioners end up tortured, and used as part of her domain. Only the most favored ones ever get to become any sort of demon servant. She is much like any other demon in most respects- she sees souls as little more than bargaining chips or fodder for spells, batteries to empower her, etc. Her idea of "taking care" of her petitioners basically consists of tormenting them or sacrificing them to gain more power. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2011 : 04:59:32
|
Oh... I meant the "speculation" thing just about the Yochlol. I have this vague memory of Yvonnel Baenre getting turned into a Yochlol, because she was a matron mother in high favor at the time of her death. Like the other thing about Zinzerena, I seem to recall something about a Yochlol showing up and someone recognizing a hint or glimmer of Yvonnel in the demon... but like you with the LP thing, I don't remember if this was in a specific novel or some fan speculation on a webpage. It may have even been some other matron mother and not Yvonnel, but I can't recall. The rest of what I said, I'm aware of Lolth's deeper history. The depth of her evil is pretty tasty when it comes to her poor petitioners.  |
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2011 : 08:14:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
Oh... I meant the "speculation" thing just about the Yochlol. I have this vague memory of Yvonnel Baenre getting turned into a Yochlol, because she was a matron mother in high favor at the time of her death. Like the other thing about Zinzerena, I seem to recall something about a Yochlol showing up and someone recognizing a hint or glimmer of Yvonnel in the demon... but like you with the LP thing, I don't remember if this was in a specific novel or some fan speculation on a webpage. It may have even been some other matron mother and not Yvonnel, but I can't recall. The rest of what I said, I'm aware of Lolth's deeper history. The depth of her evil is pretty tasty when it comes to her poor petitioners.
I believe you are talking about the snippet from last novel of Starlight and Shadows trilogy, where *SPOILER ALERT* the main anti-heroine met the Yochlol after getting in Abyss, surviving Liriel's attack. It then turns out to be Yvonnel when Yochlol is returned to her pre-transformation form by Lolth's power.*SPOILER ALERT DISMISSED* |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
|
|
|
Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2011 : 10:40:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
Oh... I meant the "speculation" thing just about the Yochlol. I have this vague memory of Yvonnel Baenre getting turned into a Yochlol, because she was a matron mother in high favor at the time of her death. Like the other thing about Zinzerena, I seem to recall something about a Yochlol showing up and someone recognizing a hint or glimmer of Yvonnel in the demon... but like you with the LP thing, I don't remember if this was in a specific novel or some fan speculation on a webpage. It may have even been some other matron mother and not Yvonnel, but I can't recall. The rest of what I said, I'm aware of Lolth's deeper history. The depth of her evil is pretty tasty when it comes to her poor petitioners.
I believe you are talking about the snippet from last novel of Starlight and Shadows trilogy, where *SPOILER ALERT* the main anti-heroine met the Yochlol after getting in Abyss, surviving Liriel's attack. It then turns out to be Yvonnel when Yochlol is returned to her pre-transformation form by Lolth's power.*SPOILER ALERT DISMISSED*
You mean in "Windwalker"?
BTW Shakti met Quenthel as a yochlol in "Daughter of the Drow". |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
|
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2011 : 10:57:49
|
| Damn. Messed up order. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2011 : 16:26:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
Oh... I meant the "speculation" thing just about the Yochlol. I have this vague memory of Yvonnel Baenre getting turned into a Yochlol, because she was a matron mother in high favor at the time of her death. Like the other thing about Zinzerena, I seem to recall something about a Yochlol showing up and someone recognizing a hint or glimmer of Yvonnel in the demon... but like you with the LP thing, I don't remember if this was in a specific novel or some fan speculation on a webpage. It may have even been some other matron mother and not Yvonnel, but I can't recall. The rest of what I said, I'm aware of Lolth's deeper history. The depth of her evil is pretty tasty when it comes to her poor petitioners.
I believe you are talking about the snippet from last novel of Starlight and Shadows trilogy, where *SPOILER ALERT* the main anti-heroine met the Yochlol after getting in Abyss, surviving Liriel's attack. It then turns out to be Yvonnel when Yochlol is returned to her pre-transformation form by Lolth's power.*SPOILER ALERT DISMISSED*
You mean in "Windwalker"?
BTW Shakti met Quenthel as a yochlol in "Daughter of the Drow".
Found the passage... and indeed it turns out to be Quenthel. Interesting indeed! It's been a while since I've read the series, and I'd blurred my memory of that, heh!
So it literally has the yochlol say to Shakti that (paraphrased) being transformed into a yochlol is something that a highly favored priestess might "look forward to", and it turns out to be true, so it's nice to have that confirmation. Thanks!
I still have this nagging feeling that I read -somewhere- that Yvonnel eventually became a Yochlol. Hrrrmm...
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 21 Jul 2011 16:28:08 |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2011 : 20:11:12
|
| As was already said most would become larvae, that COULD become demons. I think powerful followers might be transformed into more powerful tanar'ri. I feel as though I remember a quote from a planescape book where the speaker was transformed into a form that wasn't what he was hoping for (like he was a dretch rather than a Cornugan or something) |
|
|
|
Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2011 : 07:20:11
|
| I also remember it depends on power of soul, legends of the crimes the individual made and other factors. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
|
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2011 : 10:55:19
|
In the 4e cosmology at least(going by memory from the last time I cracked open the demonomicon), demons aren't the twisted souls of mortals. Rather, demons are spawned directly from the Abyss itself, and they eat the souls of mortals(along with pretty much anything else, but they love them some mortal souls for dinner).
Also, there are no demonic petitioners on the Fugue plane. Devils are allowed to make offers to souls to damn themselves, but demons skip the middle man and go right to raiding and ripping souls off the wall of the faithless. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2013 : 06:51:44
|
| it is say that lolth looked bloated from gorging on the soulsof her petitioners..before LP.now she looks like danifie |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
|
|
|
Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2013 : 08:08:22
|
I don't think that demons are "allowed" to raid the Fugue Plane. They just do it. They charge in and steal souls from the wall and anyone else who gets in their way.
Devils are allowed to hang out in the Fugue in order to bargain with souls and try to convince them to go to the Hells. But they are forbidden to lie. In exchange, the devils are required to help fend off attacks from raiding demons.
I suspect that fiends, celestials and entities that have soul-pacts with mortals have the right to come to the Fugue or send agents to the Fugue, same as any god, to collect their rightful souls after the mortal has died. I'm pretty sure that Kelemvor is required by the terms of his office, as steward of the Fugue, to guarantee equal access to the Fugue to any god or entity that has a legitimate claim on a recently deceased soul. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Demon Worship
