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Emma Drake
Learned Scribe

USA
206 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2013 :  17:53:46  Show Profile  Visit Emma Drake's Homepage Send Emma Drake a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I choose Eilistraee because any being with free will may choose evil or good. Even in an evil-dominated society, there are those who will choose a different path. And vice-versa for good-dominated societies. This includes drow. And if there are drow choosing good or behaving in good-aligned ways (or neutral) there should be a deity that represents that. It makes those choices for good or for evil matter and carry greater meaning and nuance. For this not to be the case implies to me that they do not actually have free will. Which makes them a different sort of creature than the lore seeks to make them out to be. If you want drow to be complex creatures who make choices rather than creatures without agency who act only as their nature demands, you must have deities that reflect that.

"I am always here, all about you. You are never truly alone. I flow wherever life flows, wherever winds blow and water runs and the sun and moon chase each other, for there is magic in all things."

- Mystra (Ed Greenwood, Silverfall)

Edited by - Emma Drake on 02 Sep 2013 05:54:29
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Nai_Calus
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2013 :  05:48:14  Show Profile  Visit Nai_Calus's Homepage Send Nai_Calus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's all about Vhaeraun. Just ask him. ;) I like him a lot and think he's as needed as his sister for getting the drow away from Lolth. He gives the drow who won't/can't turn from the evil they grew up with a place to go and keeps the ones he gets out of Lolth's clutches, keeping souls away from her that would otherwise empower her further. (Heh, in a campaign I ran once he was actually BSing the whole evil thing and had actually volunteered along with his sister to do exactly that.)

Also, he's an evil bastard, but a sensible evil bastard. Hey guys, stabbing each other is stupid and gets us nowhere, how about we actually cooperate for once? OOCness in LP trilogy notwithstanding... (I must not think about that trilogy and start ranting. I must not think about...)

Plus, snazzy fashion sense and kaleidoscope hair/eyes.

I don't think they ever really did him/his followers justice, alas. But that's what campaigns are for.

Selvetarm had it worse though. All that potential with his backstory, and they did nothing at all with it. Phooey.

But yeah, I'm still grumpy they killed him off. He'd better come back in the Sundering. (I still maintain he's not dead and he's just off on a bender with Erevan Ilesere somewhere.)
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2013 :  09:03:05  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nai_Calus

It's all about Vhaeraun. Just ask him. ;) I like him a lot and think he's as needed as his sister for getting the drow away from Lolth. He gives the drow who won't/can't turn from the evil they grew up with a place to go and keeps the ones he gets out of Lolth's clutches, keeping souls away from her that would otherwise empower her further. (Heh, in a campaign I ran once he was actually BSing the whole evil thing and had actually volunteered along with his sister to do exactly that.)

Also, he's an evil bastard, but a sensible evil bastard. Hey guys, stabbing each other is stupid and gets us nowhere, how about we actually cooperate for once? OOCness in LP trilogy notwithstanding... (I must not think about that trilogy and start ranting. I must not think about...)

Plus, snazzy fashion sense and kaleidoscope hair/eyes.


I agree, I want him back as much as I want Eilistraee. I'd even like if they started cooperating, to an extent.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe

USA
324 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2013 :  18:36:23  Show Profile Send Drustan Dwnhaedan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eilistraee. Considering that I'm a goody-goody bleeding heart (according to some members of my gaming group) who greatly appreciates the concepts of love, choice and free will, which Eilistraee represents for the drow, I couldn't possibly choose any of the others, except possibly Vhaeraun. That her priestesses dance naked has nothing to do with my decision; that's just the icing on an already appetizing cake. (Oh man, this seemed so clever when I first thought of it; now it just looks cheesy.)

That Vhaeraun encourages equality amongst his followers appeals to me, but the fact he's still evil bothers me. Wouldn't mind if he were CN, though...
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Mystic Lemur
Seeker

58 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2013 :  20:16:30  Show Profile Send Mystic Lemur a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ghaunadaur, because he's the only one truly independent of Lloth, and I think that scares her. All the others only seem to exist to serve her or oppose her, and therefore she has control over them.

"What mattered our lives now, when our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring." -A review of the FRCG ;)
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2013 :  21:02:29  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Meh, Eilistraee, Vhaeraun and Kiaransalee have their own goals* that are unrelated to Lolth, and can be valid deities on their own. Fact is that Lolth brainwashed the drow to the point that her rivals need to free (well, ''free'' in Kiaransalee's case) them from her influence before proceeding further.

*Even if they removed Lolth, every of them would still make sense.

Vhaeraun wants the drow to grow as a race and reach their former glory. He's also a deity of rebellion, subtle sort of ''guerilla'' and sabotage, and patron of sneaky, ''dark alley''-ish activities.

Eilistraee ''is forging her own path, one that welcomes beings of all races who revel in life and the free form expression of all that entails'' (demihuman deities). She believes in fighting for a sort of utopy where all people can coexist freely and peacefully, and putting drow back at the helm of their own life is obviously a huge part of this. She's also a goddess of dance, music, freedom, creativity and so on, unrelatedly to Lolth.

Kiaransalee is a deity of undeath and revenge, she can exist as such, depsite her relation to Lolth (she has been kind of subdued by Lolth, but this doesn't mean that her character exists in function of the Spider Queen).



Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 02 Sep 2013 21:35:26
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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1272 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2013 :  22:19:05  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like all of the drow deities, but if I have to choose just one... Eilistraee.

I liked the Masked Lady even better, though.

Personally, I don't think Eilistraee killed Vhaeraun. I think he was convinced to join with her temporarily.

Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families!
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1842 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2014 :  16:14:42  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Voted Eilistraee but really it's the Masked Lady (which I'm currently re-working on after a computer crash destroyed my file on her).

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe

USA
388 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2015 :  04:11:33  Show Profile  Visit Yasraena's Homepage Send Yasraena a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eilistraee. She hasn't failed me yet!

"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon
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froglegg
Learned Scribe

317 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2015 :  00:24:31  Show Profile Send froglegg a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eilistraee.

I like her story, or I did till they murdered her.




John

Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!

On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale

The Old Grey Box gets better with age!
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1072 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2015 :  12:42:18  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Drows are generally Evil.. so Ill go with Loth :)

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

Links related to Forgotten Realms
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9571

Adventuring / Mercenary Companies / Orders / The chosen from official sources
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11047

Priests in Forgotten Realms.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9609&whichpage=1
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1475 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2015 :  12:43:36  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I find Eilistraee to be painfully boring. She's the token good teammate of the pantheon.

Honestly, I prefer Vhaeraun and Kiaransalee, if only because I like the politicking and backstabbing of the pantheon. Eilistraee just isn't that interesting as a divinity.

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2015 :  13:26:53  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
YMMV ofc. She's actually unique and interesting in her role as a ''good'' goddess, because of the bond she has with the drow. In her story she chooses to be with them no matter what, she sacrifices her own happines for them, she shares their exile, their suffering, but also their dreams and wishes, the desire for a better life that many of them feel deep inside.

Eilistraee is one of them and fights for them, to make the dream of a life worthy of that name a reality.

She basically fulfills the role of the ''light in the darkness'', but does so in a way that is just hers. She is what Lolth could never be to the dark elves, a mother-goddess (such is what Ed said Eilistraee is meant to be) who gives her children the love, kindness, acceptance and the joy of life that was taken from them. In this way, she makes the drow understand that an alternative exists and helps them to make this choice, to grow and flourish in a hostile world.

Eilistraee also has the charm of the underdog forging her own path, inspiring her people to do the same, to choose their future and create their own happiness, in harmony with other races.

She's not trivial, unlike some describe her. Naturally, that's not everyone's cup of tea, but neither are politics and backstabbing (and on a side note, Vhaeraun is close to his sister on this matter, as he doesn't like infighting among the drow -- even though he doesn't hesitate to use shady methods on his enemies).

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 27 Jan 2015 13:27:27
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Xanthias
Acolyte

9 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2015 :  23:00:30  Show Profile Send Xanthias a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Vhaeraun. Complex, fiercely independent and proud, cruel but pursuing a very important goal.
Kiaransalee is cool, too, and Eilistraee is anything but boring. Selvetarm has this sad backstory, and Ghaundaur... well, his particular brand of weirdness is fun.
Now that I think about it, Lolth is the only boring deity. Overexposure will do that to a character.
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1475 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2015 :  04:12:43  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eilistraee's entire concept was pretty much doomed to fail from the get-go. As a good goddess in a sea of evil deities, she's too drastic a leap for anyone who wishes to turn from Lolth without a drastic change of alignment. As the deific chief of a matriarchy-oriented priesthood, a male escaping Lolth's clergy would have no reason to even want to worship her.

Her Masked Lady aspect was the best of both worlds; being both gender-equal and somewhat indifferent to alignment.
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2015 :  06:48:28  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Eilistraee's entire concept was pretty much doomed to fail from the get-go. As a good goddess in a sea of evil deities, she's too drastic a leap for anyone who wishes to turn from Lolth without a drastic change of alignment. As the deific chief of a matriarchy-oriented priesthood, a male escaping Lolth's clergy would have no reason to even want to worship her.

Her Masked Lady aspect was the best of both worlds; being both gender-equal and somewhat indifferent to alignment.



Her worshipers did not have to be good. Even her priestesses could be Neutral. Characters in the world don't know they are evil and they may just worship the alternative goddess...

I love the Eilistraee-Vhaeraun "Masked Lady/Lord" hybrid/merged deity and like to pretend they weren't killed off.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2015 :  09:55:52  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Eilistraee's entire concept was pretty much doomed to fail from the get-go. As a good goddess in a sea of evil deities, she's too drastic a leap for anyone who wishes to turn from Lolth without a drastic change of alignment. As the deific chief of a matriarchy-oriented priesthood, a male escaping Lolth's clergy would have no reason to even want to worship her.

Her Masked Lady aspect was the best of both worlds; being both gender-equal and somewhat indifferent to alignment.



As I've said a couple posts above, Eilistraee is and offers to the drow something that no other deity can, but that many dark elves ultimately, deep inside need (just like any other creature). People of any gender who wish for a different life, Eilistraee can bring them this hope and make it real, taking the role of a mother goddess for all drow. It isn't doomed to fail, but it is indeed a very audacious goal, as part of her point is to lead the drow to an alternative, not to offer a better deal to those who are unhappy with Lolth, but still want all the scheming for power and so on.

I give you that it is hard for her to succeed, but that is part of what makes her fascinating, as I said; being a underdog forging her own path no matter what hardships she faces, a light that keeps shining despite all the darkness around her.

And while the vast majority of their communities are led by women (which is not an inherently bad thing IMO) and males can't be priests (most likely because, using Ed's words, ''One cannot truly feel the Divine Dance of Eilistraee PROPERLY except as a female''), they are respected and get a gender-fair treatment (outside of access to clergy), like it was also said in a SKR's article regarding drow society. Also, according to Ed

quote:
Except among clergy dwelling together in a temple (or forest “temple” community; I’m not speaking here of holy buildings or even a fixed worship site), I don’t think there are any such things as “Eilistreean communities.” (Remember, individuals in the Realms worship an array of gods, not a single deity.) Eilistreean-DOMINATED communities and Eilistreean households, yes. In all of those, females tend to govern (formally make decisions and be consulted in decision-making as the individuals with most social “weight” and influence), involving males primarily as “spot experts” (e.g. “You saw the attack, Phaerold, so tell us - -” and “You’ve dealt with that human more than the rest of us, Phaerold; please give us your opinion as to - - “) Males tend to be daily-bread-winning workers, guards and warriors, and have tasks related to their generally superior physical strength. They do not tend to be supervisors and high-ranking decision-makers. (Please note the word “tend.” I’m speaking in gross generalizations here, not of “a rule that holds true in all cases.”) Many males - - even clerics of Eilistraee - - become spies, scouts, patrolling guards, or leaders of lawkeeping or defensive military forces for Eilistreean-dominated communities or Eilistreean-dedicated holy communities. (To answer Kentinal’s Jan06 query: “Some wonder how Eilistraee reacts to Wizards as followers as there has been little mention of Eilistraee following mages and the one of note is female, where do males fit in?” I can add that male wizards (of any race) accepted as worshippers of Eilistraee also serve in such capacities (and as “resident experts in arcane magic”)


This has to be true for females who are not priestesses as well. They would fit in the worker or warrior/spy/expert category (after all, if they do not handle the administrative/leadership aspects, what do you picture them doing?).

and

quote:
However, these gender matters can be overstated and overemphasized. On the whole, all clergy of the Dark Maiden welcome an increase in worshippers of the Goddess, and the fellowship (and working with) more and more Servants of the Dark Dancer.


Naturally things change from community to community and from individual to individual, some drow women (mostly recent converts, I guess, as a result of the remnants of their prevous lifestyle) can display sexism or lack of trust towards males, but the latter are lovingly welcomed by Eilistraee to join her, and definitely do have a place among her followers. Priests represent a narrow minority (and few people have becoming one as a goal), males would definitely have plenty of reasons to worship Eilistraee (and keep in mind that worshipping her doesn't mean exlcusively her), even if priestesses still rule, they would be treated with fairness.

Considering this, the novels seem to have gone way overborad with sexism among the Eilistraeens.

That said, the Masked Lady is an interesting concept, but I would far prefer for Eilistraee and Vhaeraun to knock the rough edges off and come to an agreement. It would have the same effect, and bring to the drow the best of both worlds, while preserving both of their awesome identities.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 31 Mar 2015 10:50:47
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe

Ireland
212 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2015 :  01:33:06  Show Profile  Visit Roseweave's Homepage Send Roseweave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eilistraee even though she's a Mary Sue. Feel bad she's winning so hard though makes her more of a Mary Sue lol.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2015 :  02:09:58  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave

Eilistraee even though she's a Mary Sue. Feel bad she's winning so hard though makes her more of a Mary Sue lol.



Sarcasm? Eilistraee and her followers ultimately get the short end of the stick in every event they appear... this is the first time I hear this about her

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 03 Apr 2015 02:17:05
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
953 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2015 :  02:58:19  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think Roseweave meant that Eilistraee has the vast majority of voices in this thread.

And I also votted for her, although I like all of the drow gods XD.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2015 :  17:10:45  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

I think Roseweave meant that Eilistraee has the vast majority of voices in this thread.

And I also votted for her, although I like all of the drow gods XD.



Oh I see. Well, Eilistraee's indeed popular, she and Vhaeraun are two ''dark horses'', so to speak. Underdogs and deities of little influence in their lore, they also started as underdogs/marginal characters in terms of popularity, but became unexpectedly well liked.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe

USA
527 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  18:39:11  Show Profile Send GRYPHON a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lolth...
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2017 :  22:00:25  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's a tie between Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. I love them both.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1608 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2017 :  22:20:22  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's interesting that Sharess (Zandilar) gave birth to a Drow God, but is not considered a part of the Drow Pantheon.

Selvetarm is arguably also potentially a member of the Mulhorandi Pantheon or at least he could demand membership by right of blood.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2017 :  22:23:34  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Annnnd I just realized I commented on this thread couple years ago lol. Oops

Sweet water and light laughter
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froglegg
Learned Scribe

317 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2017 :  23:20:55  Show Profile Send froglegg a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for Lolth because she is sexy,evil and twisted.




John

Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!

On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale

The Old Grey Box gets better with age!
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froglegg
Learned Scribe

317 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2017 :  23:26:17  Show Profile Send froglegg a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by froglegg

I voted for Lolth because she is sexy,evil and twisted.




John


P.S. Yes I changed my mind.




John

Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!

On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale

The Old Grey Box gets better with age!
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2017 :  00:17:06  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by froglegg

I voted for Lolth because she is sexy,evil and twisted.




John



Man, even Vhaeraun has more charm than her, judging by this poll. And if you're looking for sexiness, Eilistraee is the drow goddess of beauty herself.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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Martinsky
Acolyte

Canada
34 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2017 :  00:57:30  Show Profile Send Martinsky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Being I werewolf myself it not hard to choose from.
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Sunderstone
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2019 :  19:42:02  Show Profile Send Sunderstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by froglegg

I voted for Lolth because she is sexy,evil and twisted.




John



Lloth for the same reason.
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