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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jul 2011 : 04:21:31
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| I doubt I will ever read those again, unfortunately, unless my local library gets them (Doubtful- I've moved since I read them and the new town's library is just- well crappy is the nicest word to describe it...) because as I said, I refuse to actually buy that particular series. (I'm not supporting WotC on that decision, regardless of how much I like their other novels.) I doubt it was something you would find in a keyword search, since I don't think she was directly mentioned by name- just something about Lolth having "dealt" with an upstart goddess while putting her other plans in motion. It was the briefest mention only IIRC, and seemed to have been added as an afterthought- a way to explain why she never showed up in the showdown, considering the fact that every other drow deity appeared at some point. (except for Keptolo, as was pointed out earlier.) The only reason I remember it at all was because I thought it was amusing that the "unnamed" goddess of assassins had been hiding right in Lolth's own backyard, as it were. Wish I remembered the specific book- that really bugs me, actually. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2011 : 04:31:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I doubt I will ever read those again, unfortunately, unless my local library gets them (Doubtful- I've moved since I read them and the new town's library is just- well crappy is the nicest word to describe it...) because as I said, I refuse to actually buy that particular series. (I'm not supporting WotC on that decision, regardless of how much I like their other novels.) I doubt it was something you would find in a keyword search, since I don't think she was directly mentioned by name- just something about Lolth having "dealt" with an upstart goddess while putting her other plans in motion. It was the briefest mention only IIRC, and seemed to have been added as an afterthought- a way to explain why she never showed up in the showdown, considering the fact that every other drow deity appeared at some point. (except for Keptolo, as was pointed out earlier.) The only reason I remember it at all was because I thought it was amusing that the "unnamed" goddess of assassins had been hiding right in Lolth's own backyard, as it were. Wish I remembered the specific book- that really bugs me, actually.
Hrrrm... I'll try some different keyword searches on LP and let you know if I find anything.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2012 : 11:30:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
Who is your favourite Drow deity and why?
My favourite is Kiaransalee (which probably doesn't come as a surprise).
I find her appealing since she is the goddess of undeath, which, in my own campaign, I develop into being the goddess of transitions. Undeath capturing, or freezing, that moment between life and death.
I think some of the appeal is that she is covered less than Lolth, which means you can develop the concept more fully and other players don't arrive at the table with a host of preconceptions.
In my own campaign, I have the Dark Seldarine as House Drow, or Quellar Ilythiiri. With Lolth as the Matron Mother, Vhaeraun as Patron, Kiaransalee as First Daughter, Selvetarm as Weapons Master/First Son, Eilistraee as Second Daughter and Zinzereena as Third Daughter. I've also got two custom deities, to make the total up to eight.
Oh, and 'Hello' to those who remember me from years ago. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2012 : 14:40:00
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quote:
In my own campaign, I have the Dark Seldarine as House Drow, or Quellar Ilythiiri. With Lolth as the Matron Mother, Vhaeraun as Patron, Kiaransalee as First Daughter, Selvetarm as Weapons Master/First Son, Eilistraee as Second Daughter and Zinzereena as Third Daughter. I've also got two custom deities, to make the total up to eight.
Like the idea. I toyed with something similar. Could you write more (here or via PM) about the two custom deities? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2012 : 16:53:49
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Vhaeraun. He's the only one sticking up for 35% to 40% (depending on location) of the drow race (males). He's also one of the few who is (was) actively trying to stick it to The Woman without trying to 'redeem' them.
Eilistraee would have gotten my vote otherwise. She was the one drow deity who gave a choice to the uncommon non-evil drow (who are now all but non-existent).
Both are (were) counterbalances to their mother, and have avoided her fate of becoming almost a caricature of 'evil drow deity'. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2012 : 09:10:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
Could you write more (here or via PM) about the two custom deities?
Here they are:
Karas - Divine Second Son, God of Divination and Scrying, N
A demi-god who specialises in divination.
Kyorl - Divine Fourth Daughter, Goddess of Psionics, CN
After falling for years first through the Claw Rift then through dimensions, Kyorl Odran regained control of her form and her mind. During her fall, she developed her psionic abilities further, taking them to new heights and becoming a demi-god.
I'll send you some more info' via PM. Please let me know if you've received it. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 23 Jan 2012 09:13:26 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2012 : 12:18:33
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| I have to go with Elistaraee. I always prefer to root for the underdog. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2012 : 12:20:07
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Personally, I thought they could have/should have done a lot of things differently on that score. For one thing, Eil's change to the Masked Lady was far too short. There was much more that could have been done with that.
[/quote]
Thats very true. I loved her as the Masked lady and then they kill her off is such a brutal manner. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 01:34:04
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I didn't vote, because my answer wasn't there. For me, any of them but Lolth. If WotC wanted to cause a shake-up with the Spider Queen series, they should have killed her off. And I know that might make me unpopular, but I've never treated anything as a popularity contest (as Sage and Wooly can attest to over the years). 
Edit: My apologies; yes, I can vote in this poll, because Kiaransalee would be my choice for head of the drow pantheon after Lolth's death. If you want to make the drow truly evil villains again, that's the way to go, imho.  And the following quote is exactly why I'd kill off Lolth; she dominates the pantheon to an excessive degree. Instead, 4E killed off the rest of the pantheon. Just another reason I didn't go Fourth. 
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Lolth, just because I hardly know the rest.
And you'll never get a chance to know them, Dennis, unless the WotSQ series gets retconned or "alternate-timestreamed". Honestly, I think the pantheonic changes in the 4E Realms were made solely so that someone (and I won't claim to know who, as I know that a lot of 4E changes were mandated from the top) could say that they killed a horde of false heathen gods. But that's my attempt to be light-hearted about what happened at the end of 3E. I'm hoping I won't have to try to be light-hearted about what happens at the end of 4E, but I won't pass judgement until I've seen that new Realms book due out at the end of the year. Until then, I'm going to keep flogging my horse and hoping it makes it to 5E without dying. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 25 Jan 2012 01:48:44 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 02:13:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I didn't vote, because my answer wasn't there. For me, any of them but Lolth. If WotC wanted to cause a shake-up with the Spider Queen series, they should have killed her off. And I know that might make me unpopular, but I've never treated anything as a popularity contest (as Sage and Wooly can attest to over the years).
Edit: My apologies; yes, I can vote in this poll, because Kiaransalee would be my choice for head of the drow pantheon after Lolth's death. If you want to make the drow truly evil villains again, that's the way to go, imho. And the following quote is exactly why I'd kill off Lolth; she dominates the pantheon to an excessive degree. Instead, 4E killed off the rest of the pantheon. Just another reason I didn't go Fourth.
Wow, that is a really interesting idea. I like it a lot. Lolth has pretty much been the same over the past few decades, and she hasn't shown much in the way of growth, change or development. Even during her "silence" and transformation to a greater deity, she still pretty much remained exactly the same.
Kiaransalee becoming the head of the drow pantheon would've been very interesting indeed. In a lot of ways, it would've been consistent with drow culture... the tired old matron getting sliced and replaced by the younger.
I also thought, back a few years ago, that it would've been interesting to have Lolth split into two personas, one as Lolth and the other as Araushnee the weaver. Any shake-up, really, would be good for the drow. Killing off the rest of the drow pantheon just returned it to a sort of "one note" for their culture. I really liked Eilistraee as the Masked Lady, brief as it was. It just feels like there's been a lot of missed opportunities to add some real depth to the drow.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 03:07:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Wow, that is a really interesting idea. I like it a lot. Lolth has pretty much been the same over the past few decades, and she hasn't shown much in the way of growth, change or development. Even during her "silence" and transformation to a greater deity, she still pretty much remained exactly the same.
Yep. And this is why I haven't been a Lolth fan since my high school years of playing late 1E and early 2E. When Monster Mythology came out for 2E, it gave me other options for the drow, and 3E expanded those options. And then 4E took away all those options again. 
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Kiaransalee becoming the head of the drow pantheon would've been very interesting indeed. In a lot of ways, it would've been consistent with drow culture... the tired old matron getting sliced and replaced by the younger.
Actually, I hadn't even thought of it in that respect... but yes, I like that a lot... I think I may steal that, if you don't mind... but then, I suppose it's not stealing, then, is is?
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I also thought, back a few years ago, that it would've been interesting to have Lolth split into two personas, one as Lolth and the other as Araushnee the weaver. Any shake-up, really, would be good for the drow. Killing off the rest of the drow pantheon just returned it to a sort of "one note" for their culture. I really liked Eilistraee as the Masked Lady, brief as it was. It just feels like there's been a lot of missed opportunities to add some real depth to the drow.
You know, I had much the same thought re: Lolth/Araushnee split. I don't remember my original concept, but I just thought of something interesting now... what if Angharradh (sp?) (the elven triune goddess) assisted in instigating this split, and a part of herself (actually a part of each of the three "component" elven goddesses) is left within Araushnee? Just enough to remind her of the pleasure of her distant past as Corellon's consort, and perhaps to awaken a new desire to rejoin her former lover... but not enough to overwhelm her by-now-innate evil? If she wants to rejoin Corellon and the Seldarine, she has to convince them she is worthy... perhaps by killing her "other self"? But there's a catch... if Lolth dies, she dies too... unless she can do something, the details of which I've not hashed out yet... one option is, make Lolth hate herself as much as she (Araushnee) now hates herself. I've always loved self-loathing as a divine theme. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 25 Jan 2012 03:09:29 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2012 : 14:21:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I didn't vote, because my answer wasn't there. For me, any of them but Lolth. If WotC wanted to cause a shake-up with the Spider Queen series, they should have killed her off.
The whole War of the Spider Queen series, all six books could be neatly summed up, by 'Looks like change, nope, business as usual.' The start was lovely, so much potential, then it turns out that nothing changes. I wouldn't have been in favour of getting rid of Lolth, because I just don't like the idea of gods that can be killed, but there was a rich possibility.
One of the changes that made me stay at 3rd Edn was the wide-spread cull of the many deities in Forgotten Realms. Getting rid of that rich detail was a mistake in my opinion. The rich detail made the Realms different, and meant more to discover and try out.
As regards, anyone but Lolth. In my own game, I took the option of making the Dark Seldarine a tight pantheon. So now the drow have a pantheon that looks like a noble House; something they can relate too. Lolth's the Matron but she recognises that a Matron isn't anything without a strong House. Of course, I altered many of the alignments too. CN seems to suit Lolth better in my opinion. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 25 Jan 2012 14:23:03 |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2012 : 03:44:49
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I voted Vhaeraun. Eilistraee used to be my favourite, and I'm still more fond of her than Lloth, but Vhaeraun just kind of intrigues me these days.
The bit I became dubious on with Eilistraee was the Changedance. It made sense... from our perspective. Not from a drow one.
Reasons omitted for brevity and not feeling like raising them in this space.
It'll suffice to say I think drow guys got a bit of a rough deal; Eilistraee is nicer to them than Lolth, but still not as even-handed as one's ideal good-aligned deity could be.
Vhaeraun is evil, but the equality thing interests me. Plus the cooperation notion. Here's a god who, despite being evil, still has the foresight to go 'Okay, you guys, all this infighting is just stabbing yourself in the foot. How about we get organised? I get that hating everything is fun for you, but it's not very productive.'
I should reiterate, though, that outside that one issue I still really really like Eilistraee. They're both very interesting to me, all in all. |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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Edited by - Lady Shadowflame on 27 Jan 2012 03:47:29 |
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Imp
Learned Scribe
231 Posts |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2012 : 23:31:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Imp
If you find them both interesting, Lady Shadowbane, than there's always Eilistraee The Masked Lady. :D
I don't think she has the hilarity that is Vhaeraun's mood-ring eyes and hair...
Also, Shadowbane? That's either my villain name or my hero name, depending on if it's bane of or bane from shadows... |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2012 : 23:42:21
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| I axed the entire Changedance/no-male-priest thing with my version of her altogether! I simply made her so obscurely worshipped that very few males ever even learn of her, (females too) so they don't often have a chance to become priests unless called by her personally. Since my version of lolth is even darker and more nasty, Eil's followers tend to get stamped out rather quickly once discovered, which is often. It's harder to hide when anything even remotely tied to her becomes suspect (ie- The drow in my world sneer at singing or playing instruments as "slave's pastimes", and the only dancing they do is competetive- the nedierras.) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2013 : 01:21:56
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| As much as I hate the matrons....i must admit that I dont think the drow as a race would have survived the crownwars and the betrayal of the faeries without the power of LOLTH ! |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2433 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2013 : 02:45:31
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| Well, kind of no, since they did... but when not held in an adamantine hand, the little charmers roll the way of Telantiwar / Golothaer as often as not. So kind of yes, too. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2013 : 03:41:23
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| Yes...vice grip. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2013 : 03:47:27
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| Eilistraee, she represents a vision of the Drow that is unique to FR. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Lord of Bones
Seeker
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2013 : 11:53:52
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| Ghaunadaur! He showed Lolth that she can't push absolutely everyone around, is primordial, and makes the most frightening followers in my opinion. The kind of drow to worship a pillar of ooze is not the kind of drow I want to meet. |
Come watch the Gentleman's Guide to Gaming!
http://www.youtube.com/user/clackclickbang
On my channel I review and dissect role-playing games with great gusto. Please do take a look and let me know what you think. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2013 : 22:48:15
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| Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, definitely. They are intriguing, and there is richness to them and their followers. Vhaeraun is evil-aligned, but he is not evil in the same way Lolth is. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Lothlos
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2013 : 00:43:52
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| Eilistraee is my favorite drow deity. I always like the underdog so to speak. |
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11855 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2013 : 01:38:51
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| Kiaransalee, when she's not shown as some cackling hag but rather some drow female with steely nerve that commands respect. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2013 : 09:56:13
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Kiaransalee, when she's not shown as some cackling hag but rather some drow female with steely nerve that commands respect.
I'd always pictured her as a drow version of Morticia Addams, save without Morticia's belief that she's anything approaching 'normal', and with a more-than-obvious sadistic streak. |
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Alenis
Acolyte
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2013 : 12:56:26
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| I voted for Selvetarm; I always thought his character had so much more to offer than as Lloths lackey. His backstory was really interesting. My next pick would've been Zinzerena. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2013 : 11:23:33
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Now that the dead Gods are stirring I wonder if Selvatarm will come back as Evil or not.
After all he didn't start out evil, it was a result of magical corruption when he killed that demon lord. Maybe his death and the placing of his essence in the celetial tree thing purified it and he's free to walk his own path again. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2013 : 13:38:17
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I have to go with Eilistraee. She stands for the drow fighting for the freedom of choice of their race, to shape their own future and forge a rightful ''place'' for their people in an otherwise hostile (to them) world. She also has the charm of the rebel underdog, which I tend to side with.
Vhaeraun comes close second, aiming to obtain something similar to what his sister wants to achieve, but with a more violent and ''drow must rule'' kind of approach (which I don't like as much).
@Gyor
Agreed. If WotC cared to do something about the Dark Seldarine, it'd be nice to have Selvetarm as something more than Lolth's lackey #11 |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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KacyCrawford
Acolyte
USA
41 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2013 : 13:42:17
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| Zinzerena is my favorite drow deity. |
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Topic |
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Favourite Drow Deity
