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Katriona
Acolyte
3 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 08:01:05
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Recently I've made a character who, among other things, is a real literature buff. I thought of this, since she's a worshipper of Deneir, who is supposed to be god of literature.
But what sort of things can I say she reads? Do novels exist in the realms? I assume that epic poems and the like exist, since Earth humans invented those pretty early, and I vaguely remember something about Sun Elves being into epic poetry.
Could someone with some knowledge of the topic please shed some light?
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Cronje
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 08:58:15
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Browsing through The Grand History, I've come across several treatises, but very few novels. There's the memoir Seven Fingers (the Forgotten Realms Boxed Set, page 65 of the Campaign Set), about the merchant Zephrum Nelagul. There are several history books - The Lore of Hlontar (the 1989 version of Lords of Darkness, page 67), and numerous spellbooks with with information on their author in them.
But there are definitely books of other sorts. The libraries in Candlekeep and Silverymoon, among other cities, are full of them. Thamalon Uskevren's library (I think it was described in The Halls of Stormweather, Heirs of Prophecy, and in Lord of Stormweather) has many texts on elven history and lore.
Hope this helps!
- Cronje |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 14:47:03
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I still make use of this web article that Steven made so many years ago.
http://www.wizards.com/forgottenrealms/FR_20001129b_P2.asp |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 15:11:12
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And Krash expanded on Steven's list. It's a little out of date, but his expanded list is archived here at Candlekeep:- http://candlekeep.com/library/articles/booklist.htm
Also, look at the chapter epigrams of much of Ed Greenwood's and Steven Schend's fiction. They're both some of Realmslore's great unsung treasures, and convey better than anything how much more there is of the Realms than what the sourcebooks and novels have dwelt on. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2011 : 22:00:48
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| Also, chapbooks of 'smart-mouthed adventurer yarns; lurid romantic tales for hungry male readers; tear-reaping romances for female readers', and they'll be much better and livelier than many of the pompous, self-important heavy books if they're anything like our penny dreadfuls. |
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Katriona
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 16:51:26
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Some interesting lists here, I wasn't aware that there were so many titles of books that had been invented for the setting. Unfortunately it's not quite what I'm looking for, though maybe there's no real answer to my question.
I'm more after types of literature found. This should be highbrow literature, as in Literature with a capital L. So far, the only example I found was that of the Sun Elves having a love of epic poetry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_poetry). Admittedly I've only read a couple of dozen books of the FR setting, but it seems as though high culture is poorly covered in the setting. So I suspect I'll need to invent my character's reading material, since the actual books I've seen mentioned have been either reference books or travelogues, which are not quite literature.
Thanks for the answers, though, they're certainly very interesting even if they don't apply to my character precisely. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 17:29:11
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Hi, Katriona.
Here's the problem with "Literature with a capital L": one reader's literature is another's utter tripe, and that tendency is magnified with various races involved in the reading and writing, priesthoods actively writing and editing and commenting, and much time passing.
All of the elven races have valued what's now known as "epic poetry" because the races have an innate love of beautiful sounding and flowing language, and initially needed important historical lore preserved orally - - so the result was elders chanting, singing, or declaiming (usually some combination of all three) long "rararrda" or family histories, which were written down later, and have been augmented/partly forgotten/polished into more beautiful language ever since.
The hin (halflings) do this same process in rhyming couplets (usually featuring much humour), the gnomes in pithy wry sayings attributed to particular gnomes (the saying reflecting the character of that gnome, and preserving it for posterity), and the dwarves prefer the blunt, terse (hardly surprising, when carving runes into stone is one's customary writing): "Dorold Half-handed, slayer of orcs beyond counting/Proud son of Harlar, sire of Saragh and Turg" style.
Human societies in the Realms have risen and fallen, and embraced both popular books (the sort Faraer has just reminded us about) and their literary "highlights." You find more quotations from the former in Realms canon because the "average" person in the Realms is more likely to quote from a popular work they've read or heard about, than from a "grea tome" they've never read.
Ed Greenwood has from time to time here at the Keep and elsewhere given us some (rather scant) details of famous Faerūnian books, philosophers, sages and their learned treatises, and works of lasting interest (down the ages, and among other races than that of the writer).
Ed, the creator (and still tireless chronicler) of the Realms, has himself been a writer from childhood, not to mention a book collector, librarian, publisher, editor, columnist, and even bookseller, and has always written lore about literature for the Realms; the chapterhead quotations are just all that TSR and later WotC have really let you see of this sort of lore (BTW, everything in this post is drawn from Ed's notes to his players, of whom I'm one, and answers he's given to our verbal across-the-table questions, down the years [and some of us have our share of arts-related doctorates and are now university professors teaching various literature, so our questions can be deep and pointed indeed]). By all means ask him for relevant details in his Chamber of Sages thread, if you want to flesh out that character's reading preferences (I shuttle all posts to Ed via e-mail, and post his replies for him).
To answer your questions: novels as we know them are rare in the Realms. Book-length works of fiction in Faerūn tend to be shorter (what we would call "novellas"), and strings of these, meant to be read in a sequence, tell larger (epic) tales. These shorter books ARE well-known and fairly popular, supply being plentiful in large cities and dwindling as one gets to more and more rural locations.
BTW, for convenience, Ed and TSR agreed early on to use familiar terms like saga, sequel, book, novel, chapbook, and so on for human (and Common Tongue) usage, rather than inundating Realms fans with a long array of unfamiliar invented terms.
So the "right" answers for your Deneir-worshipping character depend on her location (where she was raised and where play is unfolding right now), the time (date of that "right now"), and what she's been exposed to (has she had the chance to take in plays? have access to temple libraries? live in a place where reading and writing was taught, and/or elders or traveling minstrels and peddlers told stories your character would have had the chance to hear?).
Ask Ed, and give him some notion of what you mean by your character being a "real literature buff" (does she study and critique authors? prefer particular genres or read widely? concentrate on a particular format of expression?), and he'll probably furnish more than you need!
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 19 Jun 2011 17:35:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 18:02:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi, Katriona.
Here's the problem with "Literature with a capital L": one reader's literature is another's utter tripe, and that tendency is magnified with various races involved in the reading and writing, priesthoods actively writing and editing and commenting, and much time passing.
Ain't that the truth! I've read a lot of the so-called "classics" of Western literature, mostly because they were forced on me in school. And I'm more than a little convinced that the only reason these books are called classics is because everyone has been told they're classic, and not because of any inherent merit. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 18:26:45
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| Our world's art/entertainment dichotomy is a peculiar cultural sickness based on a specific course of the history of ideas; its abusive relationship with the imagination, for instance, is a direct result of a monotheism and in particular a Reformation that Faerūn never suffered. There's no Faerūnwide literary culture or periodical press to create and sustain a singular canon. There will be more coherence in attitude among Deneirrath, but it'll be a basically inclusive attitude, biased mainly by Deneir's concern for recording of knowledge and information. |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 18:48:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Ain't that the truth! I've read a lot of the so-called "classics" of Western literature, mostly because they were forced on me in school. And I'm more than a little convinced that the only reason these books are called classics is because everyone has been told they're classic, and not because of any inherent merit.
My personal experience was that most of the books they made me read in school were depressing (which, considering that that is the only reading many children do, it is no surprise to me that most do not become great readers). Luckily for me, I came from a family of readers. And, thanks to my two older sisters and their making me read the Chronicles of Prydain and the Chronicles of Narnia, I developed a love of fantasy early on in life. |
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Katriona
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 18:59:34
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Thank you, Hooded One, that's actually an extremely useful answer that's given me some good ideas to get me started. When I get a chance to formulate something to ask Mr. Greenwood, I'll do so.
But in the mean time, there are some useful comparisons to be made between some of the races you mentioned, and certain Earth cultures. Of course, it would be a mistake to take those comparisons too far, but it's a good starting place. It'd be nice to have some idea of human literature also, but you've given me a place to start with that also. It'd be interesting to see if there is a large difference between what people in Waterdeep and Cormyr read, just as a random example. That will have to wait until I can organise my thoughts better, though, especially since I'd also be interested in the evolution of literature over time and in different places.
It had occurred to me that the adventurers portrayed in the novels would generally be either too interested in "easy" entertainment in the case of fighters/thieves, or too busy with other studies in the case of clerics/wizards, which is realistic.
As for the canon on Earth, I definitely agree with that, as much as I enjoy much (but definitely not all) of the work found in it. As one description I read described it, it was decided by a bunch of dead white guys. That said, I also enjoy other works not found in it. The Mahabharata is a good example, I think. |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 01:21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And Krash expanded on Steven's list. It's a little out of date, but his expanded list is archived here at Candlekeep:- http://candlekeep.com/library/articles/booklist.htm
Also, look at the chapter epigrams of much of Ed Greenwood's and Steven Schend's fiction. They're both some of Realmslore's great unsung treasures, and convey better than anything how much more there is of the Realms than what the sourcebooks and novels have dwelt on.
My big complaint with Steven Schend's list, and Krash's expansion is that it is not clear if these works were created by them or are drawn from Realms canon. It would be very useful to have alist of the various bits of Realms literature that Ed quotes in his novels, but only if the list includes a citation (inc. page!) for the FR novels or sourcebook the item is drawn from.
Otherwise, as previous, those who complain about being forced to read our classics in schools genherally do not understand the difference between taste and quality, and even less the way that different literature influences other literature.
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"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 02:17:10
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
My big complaint with Steven Schend's list, and Krash's expansion is that it is not clear if these works were created by them or are drawn from Realms canon.
Steven weighed in on that issue during a previous discussion. The majority of tomes listed were crafted directly by him. Some were also drawn from his own published Realms-work.
Krash's list [and my own updated version {which also references all the neat books and such that Steven mentioned in both Blackstaff and Blackstaff Tower}, when it's made available] draws almost entirely from published Realmslore.
quote:
It would be very useful to have alist of the various bits of Realms literature that Ed quotes in his novels, but only if the list includes a citation (inc. page!) for the FR novels or sourcebook the item is drawn from.
That's largely been incorporated as part of my own book-list project that I just mentioned above. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 02:18:11
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
My big complaint with Steven Schend's list, and Krash's expansion is that it is not clear if these works were created by them or are drawn from Realms canon. It would be very useful to have alist of the various bits of Realms literature that Ed quotes in his novels, but only if the list includes a citation (inc. page!) for the FR novels or sourcebook the item is drawn from.
George, I've got that sort of list. I drew it from all of the FR novels between Dark Walker on the Moonsheas through Cormyr, a Novel. It lists the title of the book, the author (if known) and any relevant description mentioned by the FR author. It covers all books mentioned in the novels - including those used as chapter leads.
Unfortunatly, I've never typed it up. It's currently written on several legal pads that I kept by my reading chair and nightstand.
However, now that I'm no longer working, there's no reason I can't get it typed up and formated into a pdf. If nothing else, it will make a good summer project. Let me start working on a portion of it and see if it matches Krash's work. If it doesn't, I'll finish it and offer it for archiving here at Candlekeep. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
Edited by - Halidan on 20 Jun 2011 02:19:43 |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 02:23:36
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| It seems like the Sage posted while I was still composing. Sage, did your list come from novels or modules and sourcebooks (or even both)? Would there be any need for me to go through my lists, or have you already covered the novels I've complied book lists from? Let me know, and if it's usefull, I'll start typing my notes into a more useful form. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 02:38:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
George, I've got that sort of list. I drew it from all of the FR novels between Dark Walker on the Moonsheas through Cormyr, a Novel. It lists the title of the book, the author (if known) and any relevant description mentioned by the FR author. It covers all books mentioned in the novels - including those used as chapter leads.
Heh. Sounds a little like my own listing. 
quote:
Unfortunatly, I've never typed it up. It's currently written on several legal pads that I kept by my reading chair and nightstand.
However, now that I'm no longer working, there's no reason I can't get it typed up and formated into a pdf. If nothing else, it will make a good summer project. Let me start working on a portion of it and see if it matches Krash's work. If it doesn't, I'll finish it and offer it for archiving here at Candlekeep.
If you're interested in a little collaborative effort, I'd be happy to see what we can manage together on this?
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
It seems like the Sage posted while I was still composing. Sage, did your list come from novels or modules and sourcebooks (or even both)? Would there be any need for me to go through my lists, or have you already covered the novels I've complied book lists from? Let me know, and if it's usefull, I'll start typing my notes into a more useful form.
Well, as I said above, we can collaborate if you so wish.
I haven't yet included any book-references from the majority of latter 2e and all the 3e adventures. I'm not sure whether you've covered them already?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3763 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 04:32:37
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| -Evermeet: Island of the Elves is a "book within a book", in our hands. Faerūnian literature (translated from Elven epic poetry, most likely, given many of the subjects and topics!) in our hands, direct. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 04:57:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
My big complaint with Steven Schend's list, and Krash's expansion is that it is not clear if these works were created by them or are drawn from Realms canon. It would be very useful to have alist of the various bits of Realms literature that Ed quotes in his novels, but only if the list includes a citation (inc. page!) for the FR novels or sourcebook the item is drawn from.
George, I've got that sort of list. I drew it from all of the FR novels between Dark Walker on the Moonsheas through Cormyr, a Novel. It lists the title of the book, the author (if known) and any relevant description mentioned by the FR author. It covers all books mentioned in the novels - including those used as chapter leads.
That sounds awesome, I hope you do make it available as a pdf download... does it include citations? I mean, does each entry cite which Realms book it came from?
i.e.:
Musings of a Witch-Queen in Exile by Athaeal of Evermeet, Year of the Black Flame (from Elminster: The Making of a Mage, Ch 5, p82
I'd do this myself, but I don't have a complete collection of FR novel, and I'm currently working on a revising my Spelljammer 'official' timeline. But I definitely would love it if some folks have a such a list and they made it available. :)
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"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 07:09:07
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
My big complaint with Steven Schend's list, and Krash's expansion is that it is not clear if these works were created by them or are drawn from Realms canon. It would be very useful to have alist of the various bits of Realms literature that Ed quotes in his novels, but only if the list includes a citation (inc. page!) for the FR novels or sourcebook the item is drawn from.
George, I've got that sort of list. I drew it from all of the FR novels between Dark Walker on the Moonsheas through Cormyr, a Novel. It lists the title of the book, the author (if known) and any relevant description mentioned by the FR author. It covers all books mentioned in the novels - including those used as chapter leads.
That sounds awesome, I hope you do make it available as a pdf download... does it include citations? I mean, does each entry cite which Realms book it came from?
i.e.:
Musings of a Witch-Queen in Exile by Athaeal of Evermeet, Year of the Black Flame (from Elminster: The Making of a Mage, Ch 5, p82
That is, essentially, how I set out my reference citations, though I include publishing year and edition for the source also. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 23:40:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That is, essentially, how I set out my reference citations, though I include publishing year and edition for the source also.
I think I'm in love...
please let me know when this is available to download!  |
"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 01:04:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Will that be in Sage-Time?  JK. No rush- I've got other stuff keepme occupied for now. At least until I finish hanging a certain drow bard.....
Heh. I'll look forward to that.
Re: the PMs, I'll try to get to them this week. 
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That is, essentially, how I set out my reference citations, though I include publishing year and edition for the source also.
I think I'm in love...
I believe I'm spoken for already, my friend. 
quote:
please let me know when this is available to download!
Indeed. I'll likely make the announcement here at Candlekeep, since it originally started as a Candlekeep-specific project. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 01:17:57
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Well, to be fair, he's already well-hung!  
Seriously, though, if you are curious, it's the link in my siggy- the one that says mickeys-tavern in the address. Good yarn, and some unusual twists.... (Okay, enough self-advertizing....) I'll look for those pm's! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
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"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
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My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 02:19:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you're interested in a little collaborative effort, I'd be happy to see what we can manage together on this?
Sorry for the delay. One of my frineds had a family emergency this weekend, and I was caught up in helping to pick up the pieces.
Sage, I'd love to co-operate on this project with you and anyone else who want's to jump in.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I haven't yet included any book-references from the majority of latter 2e and all the 3e adventures. I'm not sure whether you've covered them already?
I've done nothing with any FR sourcebooks or adventures, reguardless of edition. My notes come fron FR novels only. That said, once I get my current notes typed up, I can always start, as I have a complete FR collection through the end of 3.5 edition. Unfortunatly, I have no 4th edition FR material at all.
What I'll do is type up a couple all the literature information I have from a couple of books, format it into a pdf and post it here on Candlekeep as a sample. That way, Sage and anyone else who mwnts to be involved can comment on what I've done, we can change it around, and establish a common format.
Once that's done, we can add books as we discover them. Sound like a plan? Let me know. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2011 : 01:20:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'll likely make the announcement here at Candlekeep, since it originally started as a Candlekeep-specific project.
Many thanks and I look forward to it! |
"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2011 : 08:57:37
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Just a note to let you guys know that much of the "meat" of Steven's C-Keep book list came as a whole (likely from that wellspring of ideas known as his noggin' and likely with the input of Ed as well). This original list is not gleaned from the FR sources and was created "whole cloth".
The later additions to the list are from Ed's (and others) FR writings. The product citations for these latter books etc. can be noted, but there will be gaps.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2011 : 04:39:52
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Just a note to let you guys know that much of the "meat" of Steven's C-Keep book list came as a whole (likely from that wellspring of ideas known as his noggin' and likely with the input of Ed as well). This original list is not gleaned from the FR sources and was created "whole cloth".
The later additions to the list are from Ed's (and others) FR writings. The product citations for these latter books etc. can be noted, but there will be gaps.
-- George Krashos
That's great, but it would have been helpful if they had noted that in the work.
Sorry, it's just a pet peeve of mine, I have to cite sources religiously at work, it's the only way to ethically do history, and I get upset when i can't determine where something originated.
But since that list is free, I shouldn't complain. |
"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
Edited by - GMWestermeyer on 26 Jun 2011 16:24:13 |
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Literature in the realms
