| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Jaysen Darclyght
Acolyte
USA
43 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Nov 2003 : 12:38:11
|
|
In my home brewn world, I am on the verge of throughing my friends into a world war. I'm wondering if any of you have an opinion on such a thing and if you do perhaps some advice for myself?
|
|
|
kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2003 : 12:57:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jaysen Darclyght
In my home brewn world, I am on the verge of throughing my friends into a world war. I'm wondering if any of you have an opinion on such a thing and if you do perhaps some advice for myself?
I've done similar things in the past although not on the scale of a "World War". It was relatively successful.
The only advice I can give is to keep it simple. I found it was better not to get the party involved in mass comabt since this wasn't something that they (as players) didn't want to get involved with or (in some cases) understand. They enjoyed more being on the fringes in either a political role (as ambassadors or escorts to such people) or taking part in small skirmish actions. It is important, however, that they are made aware of how what they are doing fits into the big picture.
If you do get involved in mass actions, you need to give some thought to such things as the combat system you are going to use - imagine a unit of 1000 individuals, are you really going to throw 1000xd20 each round. You are better using statistics and deciding that if the individuals in the unit have a 1 in 4 chance of hitting an enemy then approx 250 of them should hit. In the times I used mass-combat, I pre-generated the battles using a PC and rolled a few dice for effect. You obviously can't pre-generate what the players are going to do but it's not too difficult to guess their actions if you know your players.
Like anything else in D&D, enjoy it and make sure your players do. |
 |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2003 : 13:22:11
|
On my homebrew world of Amasaria, there is a particularly nasty and destructive 'continental war' occuring at the moment. For the most part, the conflict has been limited to just that continent, and a few surrounding islands. But that is not to say that the war will not expand. The Successor States of the Civilised Realms (the good-guys for lack of a better term) are actually now on the losing side of the decades-long conflict, so it's logical to assume that very soon they may come to contact those realms untouched by war and ask for assistance. This could drag distant realms into the conflict and force the war to occupy a 'global' scale.
In FR campaign, I have never done anything that would even come close to a 'World War', but for several months in the year of 1366 DR, most of the North and Savage Frontier was involved in a brutal campaign of the Blood War which had temporarily spilled into the Realms...much of the area is still healing from that conflict (I have discussed this at length elsewhere). Besides that, the only other 'major' conflict was the Shades brief attack (which was later aborted) on the Silver Marches.
As for advice, the main thing I will suggest is...start the conflict small. History has shown that most conflicts begin as small situations and/or problems, whether they be a brief spark of violence caused by rioting citizens or a period of intense political concentration and hostility that eventually leads to a flashpoint. The good thing about starting small is that it is easier to build onto the conflict later. It also always for a greater degree of control, allowing you to direct the war where you want it to go. I have found also, that the history of the conflict flows more naturally if it builds up and evolves during the game, rather than having the whole thing immediately explode onto the scene (although that method is tempting   ).
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 14 Nov 2003 13:29:04 |
|
|
|
Cult_Leader
Learned Scribe
USA
337 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2003 : 13:59:00
|
| Im sure that both of your systems are nice and all. And that they works well. However, he might want to look into AEG's "WAR" book. Its rather nice, has some great mass combat prestige ckasses, some nice support classes such as the sheild bearer, some new combat spells, and four new war gods. As well as seige weapons a great system for combat, and many many ideas for every reason to have a war. |
"Madness you say! Do you fear me? Are you afraid of what I might do, of what I might say? What a fascinating reaction. Don't you find it somewhat encumbering?"
Piddles assumes a deep and resonant voice. "Space...the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship...Garou. It's mission: to slay Wyrm creatures where they live and breed. To accumulate more Garou than the world's entire population. To produce metis like no one has before." - Piddles
"Aren't you people supposed to be doing something? Like, entertaining me, the fascist wizard?" - InleRah
I have the passwords to the minds of everyone and the cheat codes to the universe - Me |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2003 : 14:37:22
|
I have actually been thinking about getting that tome, especially since my own campaign's war is about to expand...it could prove to be quite useful. Would you mind writing up a brief summary of each chapter of the book and emailing it to me?.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2003 : 16:07:50
|
| Check out the Return of the Archwizards series - as far as I know, it is the closest Faerun has every come to the atrocity of a world war... |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
|
|
|
AraznBlair
Learned Scribe
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2003 : 16:12:19
|
| I think that the Tuigen war was close to being a World War. I'm not sure how that all converts to 3E or whatever version you are using but The Horde box set as well as the Crusades (novel) was pretty descriptive. |
Arazn Blair
Fightermage Extrodinare |
|
|
|
Jaysen Darclyght
Acolyte
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2003 : 16:22:20
|
Do you think that a centuries long state of Cold War between two powerful states would be a good background for war?
Here are some thing to consider about my world.
-Earth sized
-no guns, just fancy crossbows
-Populations and army sizes are on par with WW1 Europe.
-One side is more techy less magic, the other side is the other way around.
-The side that is less techy is the side that I think is going to loose if the PC's screw up the war. (They are outmanned 570000 to over 11 million)
-Larger side has larger navy, air navy, army, industrial infrastructure, poorer magical infrastructure
-Smaller side has the opposite, plus the players, and around fifty smaller states as allies
If this is too stacked, tell me so. If you have any ideas to spruce this up, also, tell me so. Grazie.  |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2003 : 17:28:09
|
Monte Cook has a product out called, Cry Havoc that touches on integrating war within a campaign. It's gotten good reviews and comments from what I've seen on D20 boards.
Just an FYI if you're looking for something to specifically address the subject matter. |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2003 : 17:58:23
|
Reminds me vaguely of my brother's second created world, called Huroth. (Though whether that was the world's name or just the continent was never explained. The name was only used in passing.)
In this world, the land was invaded almost exactly fifty years before by a race of warriors that simply appeared and started conquering. No one could speak their language, and they rarely took prisoners (or let themselves be captured). They were dubbed darkmen by humans, as their skin was a deep, almost light-sucking black. They had bony foreheads, fangs, claws, and cat-slit eyes. The only ones ever encountered were soldiers, and it was unknown what their social structure was. No one could stop them.
They had no magic. In fact, magic seemed to make them go berserk, and they would abandon whatever they were doing to kill a magic user, whether divine or arcane. The reason for this was unknown. (Well, it was explained at the end of the second book, but I'm not about to tell you. He might actually rewrite this and publish it someday.  )
At first, they seemed to only have infantry and artillary. Then creatures dubbed voltaars (from a word in a human language that meant "unstopable") started appearing. They looked like a cross between a brachiosaurus and Godzilla (or so my brother told me; obviously that description wouldn't appear in the book!), were impervious to most attacks because of natural armor, could usually smell humans at the same distance as a bloodhound, and had enormous strength. Oh, and their blood was like acid. If you did manage to get a sword in, you'd likely be dead from the blood spurt. Magic was the best way to do it, but mages were getting ever fewer.
Then they stopped. For the last several decades, the darkmen have only been skirmishing along the northern border of human-held lands. No one knows why. No one really cares; just so long as they don't start attacking again, most people are content to just let 'em be.
Not so the Opposition. This paramilitary group is the only force still attacking the darkmen, and is the only place where magic is allowed to exist. Every other country thinks that if a cleric or mage were known to be succored by them, the darkmen would attack. Now the Opposition is the only force defending the otherwise lawless northern lands.
It's in this world and age that our hero comes into his adulthood. His life's one big cliche, though. My brother wrote this when he was younger than I am now. His current stuff's a bit better.
In this situation, magic is the most valuble resource. Anyone who wants to be protected by the Opposition has to help out, but if you have magic you have to use it. You don't have to be a soldier, but if you want to you're pretty much garuenteed acceptance so long as you can prove you have the power to at least aid the army. Force-multiplying magic is the most sought-after; golemns (my brother liked the 'n' in that word), gargoyals (general term for any golemn that could fly), and elementals were highly prized.
Now we get to the reason I'm bringing this up; you might gain something from the stuff up above, but this is what I think will be most useful to the players in your game.
My brother stuck to what he knew and what he liked. He's never been exactly big on tactics, much less strategy. He liked describing battles from the point of view of the main characters. His Opposition wasn't really very military. No marching in step; no standard table of organization. He spent a lot of time on one battle, but never moved beyond the section of wall that the characters were defending.
That's what you can do. Your characters can defend a section of wall, or skirmish with the enemy to gain intelligence (military sense of the word, of course -- not likely to find a helm of mental brilliance that way!). Just because they're the most important characters in the story (they are the PCs) doesn't mean they have to be generals. And just because they aren't generals doesn't mean they have to be part of a larger group!
This is what I'm preposing. The "good guys" call up for help to defend against the "evil forces of darkness" (note the quotes -- unless you're playing that literally, there'll be lots of shades of grey). Your players' party, being the semi-elite force they are, is given leeway as to how they fight. They're given missions ("Defend the township of Genericville until reinforcements arrive!") and set loose. Don't add in lots of NPC "helpers" unless your players want them. Play up the idea of them being elite. And whatever you do, don't "roll dice" when you don't need to. Anything that the PCs can't control (meaning "off-camera," so to speak) can go however you want it.
Add in stuff that conflicts, as well. In my brother's story, the main characters were ordered to hold a defensive line against the darkmen aproaching the second-largest fort in the Opposition. They were assigned a section, and had no idea what else was going on. When they were pressed back, they were ordered to abandon a group of defenders that could have easily been rescued. They disobeyed and went back.
Don't be afraid to add in impossible odds. In the same story, right at the beginning, the main character, his mentor, and his mentor's boss (who later turned out to be the High Muckitymuck of the Opposition) came across a sleepy village in the grip of a nightmare. Darkmen were attacking and slaughtering every man, woman, and child. They saved those that they could, but were only able to get a cleric, a woman, and the woman's little girl out of there.
Anyway, that's what I thought of. All examples are (c) Dragon of Justice. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Jaysen Darclyght
Acolyte
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2003 : 12:37:22
|
Wow.
Simply, Wow.
If your creative genius (and/or) that of your brother was applied elsewhere, we'd have flying cars. But thats ok, FR needs guys like you.
I was actually planning on having only a few 'first person' encounters, most of it was going to be d10 rolls, my voice versus my tactics buff friends voice. The important battles can't be done that way so those were going to be done up close and personal. |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2003 : 15:40:38
|
Just keep it personal to the characters. In a real war, no soldier will be able to see beyond the immeadiate struggle that he's physically in. Unless your characters are generals (which I strongly urge you not to do) then you can reduce the entire war down to the battles that the characters participate in, with NPCs (such as the generals) informing the PCs that the city of Generictown has fallen, or that Cliche Pass has to be reinforced.
By the nature of the game, the best use for the party will be as a troubleshooting unit. Scirmishing and scouting, hit-and-run assaults, and as shock troops to reinforce key positions (such as on the wall of Fort Generic). This gives a feel of being part of the war effort, but still allows the players the freedoms of a normal campaign. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Jaysen Darclyght
Acolyte
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2003 : 19:08:49
|
That is interesting.
Do you think that a mix of General and skirmisher would be a good role for the PC's? Or is just straight skirmisher better for gameplay and run the war in the background myself?
I would think that if the PC's have knowledge in certain areas, like my level 20 Silver Dragon sorcerer friend, who is a tactical whiz, that they could play both parts, they would be more of an ancient general, stratigizing, then fighting, but it might work.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2003 : 21:46:40
|
Well, if they're all epic-level, then the idea of a small group being told to go this way and that and not having a say in strategy or war effort seems strange. However, what about them being an elite group? SpecOps, in modern parlance.
In my brother's story (book #2), the Opposition resurrected the disbanded Black Hand, which the main character's father had headed. However, instead of an army (which had merged with others to form the Opposition years before) it was a small, elite cadre of some of the best fighters and spellcasters the Opposition had. The main character of the story didn't join up with that one, though -- he was placed as the head of the Ravens. (And his girlfriend (*hack* lots of cliche in that one!) was chosen to head the Hawks, a group that was composed of only fighters, no spellcasters -- to show that you didn't need magic to be 'elite.')
Now, it's a huge cliche to have the main character of the story be given such a post, but in this case he was a rare individual: in D&D terms (I'm speaking very roughly, since my brother didn't use D&D rules or anything similar) he was something like a Wizard 10/Ranger 12, with a caster level of . . . oh, call it 30-something for summoning. That has to do with the rules of magic, though; nothing for what we're talking about here.
Now, if they're all epic-level, be sure that whoever they're reporting to is either half again as high in levels or is the king himself. You don't want to breed resentment, which is easy to do ("Hey, why do I have to obey some idiot with only 13 CL?"). I also think that the job of a minor field general might be good, if he's good at tactics. To preserve the feel of the game (and to let his party mates join in as well!) he should be one who "leads from the front."
Don't know if that helps any. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Jaysen Darclyght
Acolyte
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2003 : 12:29:38
|
Actually, that helps quite a bit, thanks.
I think the role of a general would be quite fitting for him. And as for reporting to a king, well, our original DM had his character be an displaced elven king, of one of the major contries in the war, so that makes it kind of easy, as his character, and himself for that matter are not what one would call a Caesar Augustus when it comes to strategy, so the sorcerer as a general, minor or otherwise would be good.
Again, thanks. |
|
|
|
kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2003 : 13:04:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jaysen Darclyght
That is interesting.
Do you think that a mix of General and skirmisher would be a good role for the PC's? Or is just straight skirmisher better for gameplay and run the war in the background myself?
I would think that if the PC's have knowledge in certain areas, like my level 20 Silver Dragon sorcerer friend, who is a tactical whiz, that they could play both parts, they would be more of an ancient general, stratigizing, then fighting, but it might work.
Thoughts?
I would have thought that the kind of level characters you are talking about (level 20?) should be making world influencing actions and decisions. These should be exceptional people in any world. They should be answerable to the King directly and be involved in such acts as espionage or assassination (of the enemy king for example). They'd certainly not be taking a turn doing guard on the castle walls. From this point of view, their war is liable to be very different to what you would normally call a war and (outwardly at least) not be too different from their normal lives.
In the interests of realism, the leader of the country they are fighting for should use the abilities of these people for "special missions". Any leader in time of war will use what he has available for the best effect. Think of Joan of Arc and how she was followed by the French Armies because of what she stood for. The French king didn't necessarily believe that she had spoken to God but that wasn't important. The important point was that the people believed she had. |
|
|
|
lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2003 : 19:56:27
|
Faerun dosn't have the mass communications and transportation systems necessary for a "world war", but there are several regional options:
Thay: Simultanious war with Rasheman, Algorand, Mulhorand and Thesk. If Thay loses, Mulhorand will be ready to invade the other countries themselves, iniating a proxy war between the Faerunian and Mulhorandi pantheons.
The Moonsea: the Zhents try to retake daggerdale and annex Phlan.
The Lands of Intrigue: Tethyr fights a two-front war of defense against Amn and Calimshan initiated by a conspiracy between the Knights of the Shield and the Rundeen, with the Zhents and the Church of Cyric getting involved later. In a twist, the Twisted Rune could aid Tethyr because this war upsets their plans for Calimshan.
There are several more options, this is actually one of my favorite mental games. |
|
|
|
Jaysen Darclyght
Acolyte
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2003 : 12:41:28
|
That is true Lowtech, Faerun doesn't have the infrastructure for a World War. However, perhaps my topic title is misleading. When I said FR, I didn't mean Faerun or Toril for that matter, twas more of a reference to the genre. The war takes place on my homebrewn world. And they do have the infrastructure for such a thing. They are on a cusp of an Industrial revolution (minus guns) and there are populations well into excesses of a million. There are roads that would wet the pants of any roman, and the aggressors have railroads which their inertial engines pull supplies and troops around on.
While it will at first be a more of 'European war' per se, it will escalate to include the known world. Your input is interesting, and definitely is worthy of merit and consideration, and of course, adaptation for my home world. |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2003 : 05:18:54
|
| Wet the pants? Maybe "make green with envy," but not pants-wetting. That's normally a fear response, after all. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Jaysen Darclyght
Acolyte
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2003 : 17:14:09
|
I hate to be crude Bookwyrm, but I ain't talking of bladder problems.  |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
FR World Wars
