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AleksanderTheGreat
Seeker
90 Posts |
 Posted - 12 May 2011 : 14:24:54
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I hate people who spread falsehoods.
I hate people who waste my time by being stupid.
Consider yourself reported to the Moderators as a spamer, AGAIN.
I've messaged Sage two times concerning your... posts and he said he look into it. I see he either didn't do ANYTHING or you are ignoring his warnings. Either way, I don't like the way you post.
You can obviously disregard me as some idiot who is picking on you, but know this: You're a spamer. you rarely bring something of value to scrolls you post in (if your posts would AT LEAST be funny or witty...). I hate that.
Oh, and BTW. Shorten that signature, it's too big and annoying. |
Fighting for order! - Join me in the battle! |
Edited by - AleksanderTheGreat on 12 May 2011 14:33:59 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 14:33:08
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I chose to use the Rules for the Pathfinder Specialist Wizard from the playtest pdf. So according to your quote I am wrong, but according to the playtest pdf I am right. So we are both right. I am using a different rule.
It's all in the Eye of the Beholder as I said. We are both right...
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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AleksanderTheGreat
Seeker
90 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 14:35:36
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You're kidding, right?
No, we aren't. A playtest is a playtest. Rules quoted by me are the only correct rules. |
Fighting for order! - Join me in the battle! |
Edited by - AleksanderTheGreat on 12 May 2011 14:37:31 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 14:39:21
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You just made my day, thank you! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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AleksanderTheGreat
Seeker
90 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 14:41:41
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| Erm... I don't know what to say anymore... I better stop before I loose my temper... :( |
Fighting for order! - Join me in the battle! |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 16:18:05
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quote:
Originally posted by AleksanderTheGreat
You're kidding, right?
No, we aren't. A playtest is a playtest. Rules quoted by me are the only correct rules.
..... isn't this nice.
and for the record, there's no rule against him having a Signature the size that he has. get th e**** over yourself, alek. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Thente Thunderspells
Seeker
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 16:23:03
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*shrug* either way you guys are off topic, Brimstone should have specified Pathfinder Playtest rules in his first post, otherwise we all would 'ave been misled.
I do think that Pathfinder final rules are awesome, but for me it loses the whole feel of "Specialist" wizard who devotes so much of their time to a specific school that they don't learn the fundamentals of a school whose magic is opposite their own. So if I wwere to specialize it would be a 2e or 3.5 specialist and as I said, probably Enchantment, Transmutation or Evocation... |
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 16:29:10
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Fellow scribes, I think we all need to take a few steps back and re-examine how we are contributing to this discussion.
I will, however, make one point crystal clear. This present bout of off-topicness will stop NOW. It can only lead to further aggression and/or disruption here at Candlekeep. And I don't want to see that.
When this matter is properly dealt with, it will be so through private channels. Please refrain from such public commentary.
Thank you.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 12 May 2011 16:30:13 |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 17:56:39
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| I think I'd love to be evocation. So much there reminds me of fantastical wizards. Of course, this would be only if I couldn't choose a generalist overall. Never know when you might need to conjure a monster or two... |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4487 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2011 : 18:49:29
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I think if I do play a wizard/mage again it'll probably be using the 4E rules. That being said, I'm really impressed with how well the Necromancy school differs from the Nethermancy school with the new Heroes of Shadow book. Nethermancy is pretty much the study and application of "shadowy" magic, using the nether between both worlds (prime material and the shadowfell) and all the coldness that lies therein.
The current Mage I created is a re-print from a v3.5 character called Raydin Gloommantle, a Nethermancer who loves to delve into all sorts of dark, mysterious aspects of arcane lore. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2011 : 05:45:17
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| Will anyone post heroes of shadow? Considering where I am, i dont think ill be getting it quite soon. Still I do love necromancy, next to summoning forth baatezu and tanar'ri its one of my many great loves. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2011 : 02:23:09
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| I wouldn't specialize. I figured out that as soon as I specialize, there are always some of my relevant spells that I cannot use anymore due to specialisation. So I pefer a few slots less, but all options open. |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2011 : 14:07:23
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| Thats true but what about liches, i mean if a necromancer(specialized like in complete book of necromancers) becomes a lich, they can master all schools of magic, does undeath give you a chance to learn everything?? |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4487 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2011 : 14:43:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Will anyone post heroes of shadow? Considering where I am, i dont think ill be getting it quite soon. Still I do love necromancy, next to summoning forth baatezu and tanar'ri its one of my many great loves.
Don't think I can post the whole class, but I can divulge information you might want to know. As with all the other Mage schools, Necromancy give specific class features at certain levels. At 1st level, they gain Necromancy Apprentice: Gain temporary HP when you successfully make a Necromancy attack. At 5th level, gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate and Stealth checks. At 10th level, Necromantic powers ignore all Necrotic resistance (which is by far the BEST feature).
Aside from that, they just gain spells and powers as a normal Wizard but of course, spells with the Necromancy keyword are often suited for this speciality. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2011 : 17:34:36
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Is it a cop-out if I say generalist?
I'm very much a jack-of-all trades in real life; I just don't like limiting myself to one field of knowledge. I suppose if I had to pick, I'd say transmutation because I like to buff and there are a fair number of utility spells in that school. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4255 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2011 : 00:22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
Will anyone post heroes of shadow? Considering where I am, i dont think ill be getting it quite soon. Still I do love necromancy, next to summoning forth baatezu and tanar'ri its one of my many great loves.
Don't think I can post the whole class, but I can divulge information you might want to know. As with all the other Mage schools, Necromancy give specific class features at certain levels. At 1st level, they gain Necromancy Apprentice: Gain temporary HP when you successfully make a Necromancy attack. At 5th level, gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate and Stealth checks. At 10th level, Necromantic powers ignore all Necrotic resistance (which is by far the BEST feature).
Aside from that, they just gain spells and powers as a normal Wizard but of course, spells with the Necromancy keyword are often suited for this speciality.
They ignore Necrotic resistance at 10th level??? Horse-puckey! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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MasksChosenOne
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 05:02:13
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| Transmutation / Alteration whichever you would like to call it , love to change the world around me even if for a short time. |
Drink a lot of water , Walk slowly ! |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2011 : 11:48:27
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| If i were to take say wiz then multiclass into various necro prestige classes would it stunt my char, i mean there are classes like necro prodigy, master necro, lord of the dead and such so how... |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4487 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2011 : 12:55:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Xar Zarath
If i were to take say wiz then multiclass into various necro prestige classes would it stunt my char, i mean there are classes like necro prodigy, master necro, lord of the dead and such so how...
There isn't a Necromancy-based Paragon Path/Epic Destiny that I'm aware of in 4E. The D&D Compendium shows that there are 22 paragon paths for the Wizard class. When you go Mage (Necromancer), there is a pre-set Paragon Path called the Enigmatic Mage which further devles into your selected School (necromacny for example). And while your not required to take this specific paragon path, it gives you more Necromancy based spells and other features.
Of course, I'm all for seeing Homebrew versions of such Necromantic paragon paths. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2011 : 05:36:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Why do wizards get so much attention in 4th ed? I'd rather see a few more paragon paths for bards- that is, if I cared to play in 4th. One of the reasons I dislike it is that some classes get all the attention just because their roles are more "important". I hate showboating a class just because it's flashy.....
I'm inclined to agree with the need for extra love for the 4e bard. It's one of the few classes in the new edition that I've actually felt would work well with the current rules-lot in my campaigns -- with a few tweaks of course, to reflect my own internal rules-system.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 31 May 2011 05:36:55 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3762 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2011 : 05:51:08
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| -Since we're talking about Bards, I just bought the Pathfinder rules, and I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed at how the Bard was redone. I would have liked to have seen a bunch of 'customizable abilities', like the Rogue got. And, really, I see no reason why the Bard didn't get a new deal, like that. Rogues were redone like that because they're very versatile, and there's plenty of different directions that a player could go with a Rogue- skills, assassination, pick pocket, etc. Same thing with Bard- there's no one real way to play Bards. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 31 May 2011 05:51:23 |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2011 : 09:10:56
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| Divination. I like to know things. Deep down inside i'm really nosey and i'd like to scry the world as much as I could. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4487 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2011 : 15:22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Why do wizards get so much attention in 4th ed? I'd rather see a few more paragon paths for bards- that is, if I cared to play in 4th. One of the reasons I dislike it is that some classes get all the attention just because their roles are more "important". I hate showboating a class just because it's flashy.....
I'm inclinded to agree, but they do have 15 paragon paths designed for the class (with some racial/class requirements thrown in). Still, here are some really good reasons to play a bard in 4E (taken from the Bard Handbook by Litigation)
* You are the master of positioning. You have a knack for making sure your allies are in the right place at the right time. After all, it doesn't matter how good your party's nova potential is if they're not in a position to unleash it, and you can get a party into position more consistently and expediently than any other Leader can. And not only do you get your allies into the right place, but you also tend to force enemies there.
* You tend to cripple the enemy as much as you help your allies. With your natural secondary role as Controller, this isn't really a surprise. You like to jinx the enemies' attacks, strip their defenses, inflict status effects, and generally do a lot of nasty things to their survival chances. You're still a team player, but you can't help but get some satisfaction yourself as your powers have more of a direct effect than those of other Leaders. There's something about dominating a foe and making him do your bidding that just sounds really cool.
* You are extremely versatile. Want to lead from the front with a shiny blade in hand? You got it. From the back? You got it. With a conductor's baton? You got it. With a bow? You got it. Strumming a lute? You got it. And it doesn't stop there. You are free to dabble in as many other classes' abilities as you'd like to tailor your arsenal as you see fit. Want more healing? You got it. Want things to die faster? You got it. Need more control? You got it.
* You are a master of skills. In fact, only three of the skills in the entire game aren't on your class skill list. Moreover, you start with the second-most number of trained skills after the Rogue. Because you're charismatic, you excel in conversational skill challenges involving skills like Diplomacy and Bluff. And to top it all off, you have the ability to make the skills you didn't train almost as good as the ones you did train.
Aside from those factors, you really are the most versatile class in the game....even better than the Druid, which is saying something. The fact that Multiclassing with other Charisma-based classes is completly effortless and other paragon path features and feats allow you to use Charisma in stead of the classe's primary ability score is phenominal. You could build a Bard, multiclass paladin (and take the Charisma-baesd powers) and then multiclass Rogue for more damaging powers, Sneak Attack, and use a Rapier for all the classe's attacks (or a longsword or other Heavy blade). Just fun fun fun.
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Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
Edited by - Diffan on 31 May 2011 17:51:00 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3762 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2011 : 17:17:30
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| -I'm assuming that that was written by WotC. Not for nothing, and I'm sorry, but why do all of the articles where they're going over the different abilities/pros & cons/changes/whatever of different classes/places in certain 4e books or transitional articles sound so goofy? |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4487 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2011 : 17:45:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I'm assuming that that was written by WotC. Not for nothing, and I'm sorry, but why do all of the articles where they're going over the different abilities/pros & cons/changes/whatever of different classes/places in certain 4e books or transitional articles sound so goofy?
Actually it was written buy a player who likes to create handbooks for certain classes. This one was done by a poster known as Litigation (he's done a few for paladins, blackguards, cavaliers, etc..) and I'm pretty certain he's not WotC employed. Might I ask what specifically sounds goofy? I'll admit that because he is a gamer, he uses such terms as "Nova" but I rather though it was clear that it's not an official WotC Product. I doubt lines like this: "..You're still a team player, but you can't help but get some satisfaction yourself as your powers have more of a direct effect than those of other Leaders. There's something about dominating a foe and making him do your bidding that just sounds really cool." will get past the editorial board and into print. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3762 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2011 : 17:56:14
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| -Parts like "You are extremely versatile. Want to lead from the front with a shiny blade in hand? You got it. From the back? You got it. With a conductor's baton? You got it. With a bow? You got it. Strumming a lute? You got it. And it doesn't stop there" or "You are the master of positioning. You have a knack for making sure your allies are in the right place at the right time. After all, it doesn't matter how good your party's nova potential is if they're not in a position to unleash it, and you can get a party into position more consistently and expediently than any other Leader can. And not only do you get your allies into the right place, but you also tend to force enemies there" sound stunted and kind of like a stereotypical used car-salesman's pitch, or a kind of campy old commercial: buttery language that just seems off. To my ears, a lot of WotC products- a few of the 4e transitional articles explaining changes to be done to races/classes, and the "New things" sections in the FRPG/FRCG- do the same thing. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 31 May 2011 17:56:43 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4487 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2011 : 18:16:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Parts like [...snip...]sound stunted and kind of like a stereotypical used car-salesman's pitch, or a kind of campy old commercial: buttery language that just seems off. To my ears, a lot of WotC products- a few of the 4e transitional articles explaining changes to be done to races/classes, and the "New things" sections in the FRPG/FRCG- do the same thing.
When someone is picking a character class, they might want selling points to 1.) show the classes strengths, 2.) show the differences between one leader (ie. the Bard) from another (ie. the Warlord), and 3.) showcase their flavor. Sure, it seems like a salesman's pitch because the poster is attempting to grab your attention and fuel desire to play a bard as opposed to other Leader (warlord, cleric, shaman, ardent for example).
The list of Pros above are a good indication of what the bard can accomplish as well as doing things differently. I don't think that is a bad thing and I wish there was something akin to that for v3.5 because one could get lost in the hum-drum of class features that version had IMO. Now, don't get me wrong as I think the v3.5 Bard was great at versatilty, but it was that versatility that amounted to him doing a TON of things, but all rather weakly. In 4E, the Bard does a TON of things and VERY well, but for a short duration.
This is, of course, all in my perspective of both classes respectively. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2011 : 05:42:27
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i guess the reason wiz is more showboated(is there such a word) is because canonically and mechanically they are far more useful in the fact that the storyline that villain or hero, there are a lot of advantages and disadvantages to magic, but for bards maybe in the novels the story has to be a bit toned down for them to survive???
i mean like bareris anskuld, how many people think that he should have died in the first book from all the horrors that were thrown againts him.... |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3762 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2011 : 13:04:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
When someone is picking a character class, they might want selling points to 1.) show the classes strengths, 2.) show the differences between one leader (ie. the Bard) from another (ie. the Warlord), and 3.) showcase their flavor. Sure, it seems like a salesman's pitch because the poster is attempting to grab your attention and fuel desire to play a bard as opposed to other Leader (warlord, cleric, shaman, ardent for example).
The list of Pros above are a good indication of what the bard can accomplish as well as doing things differently. I don't think that is a bad thing and I wish there was something akin to that for v3.5 because one could get lost in the hum-drum of class features that version had IMO. Now, don't get me wrong as I think the v3.5 Bard was great at versatilty, but it was that versatility that amounted to him doing a TON of things, but all rather weakly. In 4E, the Bard does a TON of things and VERY well, but for a short duration.
This is, of course, all in my perspective of both classes respectively.
-I didn't say that was a bad thing, or a bad strategy. I said that it sounded like a goofy used car-salesman's pitch, or a campy old commercial. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know) |
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If you were a Wizard...
