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DBG
Acolyte
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 10:30:34
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With the upcoming and much hyped SuperMoon on the 19th, is there or has there been any instance of a "SuperMoon" having an affect on the realms?
If not what effects would you create?
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Alisttair
Great Reader
    
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 10:41:59
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Something that takes the tears of Selūne into account. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me: http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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DBG
Acolyte
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 12:10:37
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I thought I would ask Ed. So I have posted in his QA thread. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
    
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 18:52:59
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There have been several 'tear-falls' in canon, all of which were Realms-shattering (and all but one were in the distant past). I would say that would be an excellent connection (as Alisttair already pointed out).
Perhaps the tears themselves rotate around a central point as they trail behind Selune, and occasionally one's closest orbit (to Toril) coincides with a supermoon, and it is captured by Toril's gravity and comes crashing down. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
    
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 22:15:19
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The "super moon" is such a stupid concept, in reality. (fyi, here's a good take-down of the concept, with added info on the Japanese earthquake for good measure: No, the Super Moon didn't cause the Japanese earthquake)
In the Realms, it's a whole 'nother ball of wax. Personally, I'd say it would be the perfect opportunity for the Leirans on Selune's face to launch their preemptive strike against Toril... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be... Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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DBG
Acolyte
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 22:27:20
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quote: Originally posted by Hoondatha
The "super moon" is such a stupid concept, in reality. (fyi, here's a good take-down of the concept, with added info on the Japanese earthquake for good measure: No, the Super Moon didn't cause the Japanese earthquake)
In the Realms, it's a whole 'nother ball of wax. Personally, I'd say it would be the perfect opportunity for the Leirans on Selune's face to launch their preemptive strike against Toril...
Duh!
I know the Super Moon had nothing to do with the situation in Japan!
But the supermoon does increase the tides above the norm spring tide, thus may result in a higher chance of flooding etc.
But my question was for The Realms and what in a ROLE PLAYING GAME could happen given the whole concept is one of fantasy!
And what is stupid about the concept of the "supermoon". The natural occurance of the full moon at the same time as the moon being in it's closest position to the earth is a documented fact and widely called a supermoon. it is happening this saturday if you did not know!
The complete first part of your post was irrelevant, please try to keep your responce in line with the question. I only mentioned hype due to the TV coverage, NOT the end of the world doom and gloom 2012 rubbish which populates the internet.
Please be concise |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
    
Canada
8028 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 23:36:14
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I've always correlated Selūne with Luna (Earth's moon) for lazy simplicity; you won't find a better simulation of reality than reality itself. There's plenty of astronomical references and calculators (such as these) which can accurately determine the visual and tidal properties of the moon at any moment in time; predicting moon phases, full moons, blue moons, wolf moons, harvest moons and all the rest can be done easily. Astrological and mystical influences of the moon are something else entirely, though there's plenty of info about them as well.
The properties of Selūne and the Tears are described fairly well in D&D lore, particularly in spelljammer lore and Dragon #125 (IIRC).
Some good attempts have been made to mathematically model Selūne-Toril, but there are problems in dimensions (as published in D&D canon) which make such models unworkable without a lot of assumptions and corrections. That's one of the big reasons I keep it simple by just copying Luna's spatial behaviour. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
    
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 00:09:19
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A "super moon" is when the moon is at perigee (closest to Earth) when it's full. Big deal. The moon is at perigee twelve or thirteen times a year, and there aren't recurring disasters or other special effects that happen on that rotation. The fact that it's full simply means lay-people might notice it (and, as follows, mis-understand it). Plus, it's not a scientific term at all, but was first coined by an astrologer, someone well versed in making stupid stuff up for gullible audiences.
This is important to point out because, in addition to squashing pseudo-science (which is a worthy endeavor in-and-of-itself), it allows us to rule out any sort of natural phenomenon showing up in the Realms as a result of such a moon.
That said, there's plenty of magical phenomenon that a full moon perigee could be used for. We can start with anything related to Selune, or moon magic. I'm a big believer in 2e's way of crafting magical items, so processes or enchantments done under such a moon would be perfectly suitable for any sort of crafting related to the moon (or lycanthropy, or maybe divination, depending on how you want to stretch the metaphor).
What's nice about this is it gives you a ticking clock to hang over your players. This only happens once every few decades, so you either chop down your lightning-struck ash with your silver saw tonight, or this recipe for a staff of the magi is kaput for another thirty years. Really lets you turn up the screws as you put obstacles in the path. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be... Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
Edited by - Hoondatha on 16 Mar 2011 00:10:09 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
    
Canada
8028 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 01:02:15
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Aw, gee, ye mean the cosmos will not end when the hands on the mechanical wristwatch happen to perfectly align?
Lunar phases were closely observed in many faiths, especially pagan ones, and formed a central basis for many calendars and ceremonial dates. It's reasonable to assume the Faerūnian peoples do much the same, whether they worship Selūne or not. Mystrans and Azuthians would place significance on Selūnar phases for magical purposes; Tymorans (and Beshabans), Lleirans, Lliirans, and Lurue's worshippers as well. Druids (who worship Silvanus, Chauntea, and Eldath) harvest much of their mistletoe under moonlight; the faiths of Mielikki and Malar might also be similarly influenced. The strategic prayers of Tempusians would be largely dictated by how much moonlight falls upon their sacred battlefields. PHBR4 Complete Wizard's Handbook published a Witch kit which is strongly affected by full moons.
Astronomical (and astrological) events which occur very rarely (once every 30 years or once every 30 centuries) do indeed make fine requirements for magical purposes. Players might even need to time travel to take advantage of such a critical event. Of course, the alternative might just be replacing that time-sensitive lightning-struck ash with jawbone slivers from seven ancient blue dragons instead, just in case your schedule is tight. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
    
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 02:45:56
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Nah, your watch is safe, but you got to watch out for that Mickey Mouse guy... He's tricky.
Artifacts are another good one. 2e artifacts were dangerous things, nearly impossible to destroy, and those were only under difficult to manage circumstances. The Staff of Shoon (made out of the horns of slaughtered unicorns) had, iirc, as one of its possible means of destruction being bathed in the headwaters of the Unicorn Run under a full moon at the Feast of the Moon. Pretty good, but arguably one of the more easily-met conditions for an artifact (other than just taking a hammer to the Machine of Lum the Mad). That could have one of these full moon perigees stuck onto it as well, to make it a once-in-a-very-long-time event (which will conveniently occur just a little sooner than your players could get there under normal circumstances, adding drama and forcing creativity). |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be... Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
   
1965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 02:43:50
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The epigee is tonight if you haven't seen it. Moonrise was spectacular. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Ayrik
Great Reader
    
Canada
8028 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 02:58:10
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Sorry, I plan to be a little busy sprinkling wolvesbane and silver across all my window sills.  |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
    
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 03:21:02
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I watched it rise, and it was magnificent! Gold and HUGE, reminded me of a really big orange. Inb fact, it's right outside my window here as we speak.
Hoondatha, I take it you don't put much stock in astrology? That's perfectly fine, to each his own, of course, but please refrain from categorically classifying those who do as gullible or who makes up stupid stuff. It just happens we've got a few pagans running around on these forums, and astrology is part of their(our) beliefs, in some cases.
I know this is SLIGHTLY off the mark for the topic, but it does sort of relate- I've got three moons in my HB world, and this is something I'd like to incorporate into it. For one thing, there is a thirty-year conjunction of the moons in that world that causes them to form a gigantic eye in the sky when they all align during the full phase of all three. I've even tied this to the hand and eye of Vecna, through the petrified hand of a sunken and turned-to-stone god of the giants. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee) http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief

    
USA
36963 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 04:44:25
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quote: Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I know this is SLIGHTLY off the mark for the topic, but it does sort of relate- I've got three moons in my HB world, and this is something I'd like to incorporate into it. For one thing, there is a thirty-year conjunction of the moons in that world that causes them to form a gigantic eye in the sky when they all align during the full phase of all three. I've even tied this to the hand and eye of Vecna, through the petrified hand of a sunken and turned-to-stone god of the giants.
Like Krynn's Night of the Eye? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
    
Canada
8028 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 04:51:27
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I believe the alignment/conjuction of all three moons (or perhaps just three simultaneously full moons) occurred every seven years in Krynn; always the big day/night for seven aspiring apprentices to take the test which determined which colour wizard robes they would wear (at least those who survived). Is that the Night of the Eye? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 20 Mar 2011 04:52:53 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
    
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 05:03:54
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I was not aware Krynn had that. It is similar, I guess, but occurs only every thirty years (EXACTLY- I worked up a very accurate lunar calendar for my world, in which there are thirteen 27 day months, with an "End Day" tacked onto the end of each for exactly 364 days in every year, without the need for a leap year.) Also had a thirteen hour clock, (26-hour day) and each moon's orbit was at a different speed. Full 28 days for the largest, 27 for the middle, and 14.5 for the smallest. The fun part was working out the lunar phases so that the conjunction would take place at a very regular interval. Which is why the lunar orbit speeds are what they are. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee) http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
    
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
    
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 05:46:26
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Don't have that tome. To date, the only DL source-books I have are The Sylvan Veil and Seeds of Chaos modules, and Palanthas. I read the three Chronicles novels, Huma, Lord Soth, and The Preludes books. Also read Dragons of Kryyn anthology, The Irda, Gully Dwarves, and Dargonesti. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee) http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
    
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 13:28:24
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Alystra: I don't put stock in anything that can't prove its efficacy through actual real-world testing and proof. And astrology fails that test as completely as does homeopathy and psychics and prayer to any supernatural thing in general. Tested, found wanted, and discarded. And if that offends people, well, then I'm sorry, but that's the price you pay when you put stock in something provably false.
That lunar calendar of yours sounds fascinating. How long did it take you to make it, and how did you do it? I generally just do as Arik does and have our moon match Selune, unless the story demands otherwise. It's hard enough work as a DM already keeping everything straight; at least for me. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be... Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
    
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 17:43:15
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The problem with astrology and other esoteric practices is not that they are provably false, but that they CAN'T be properly tested empirically, because the physical laws governing them are neither understood, or in most cases, not even known. No one argues that electro-magnetic forces exist, or the effects they have on humans and natural phenomena, so who is to say that the natural forces behind psychic abilities, astrology, and other such beliefs do not as well? Most such practices can only be "tested" visually, not with any instruments we have no- although aura-photography and EEG's can measure such forces to some degree. Besides, we're talking about the Realms, where such powers DO in fact exist, and CAN be proven as real. So using that line of thinking is sort of counter-productive to the subject of the scroll.
In a world where psychic abilities can be seen and proven, along with godly intervention, astrological influences, and anything else, using a "Super-Moon" as a plot-hook for adventuring is perfectly reasonable. I'd use it for some once-in-a-generation omen, some auspicious sign from a god (Selune or Sehenine, maybe, or even Malar), or as a warning of some dire event foretold. Perhaps it might cause certain types of magic to be altered, or even not work at all, or to work with greater efficiency. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee) http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
 
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 19:03:37
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quote: Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I was not aware Krynn had that. It is similar, I guess, but occurs only every thirty years (EXACTLY- I worked up a very accurate lunar calendar for my world, in which there are thirteen 27 day months, with an "End Day" tacked onto the end of each for exactly 364 days in every year, without the need for a leap year.) Also had a thirteen hour clock, (26-hour day) and each moon's orbit was at a different speed. Full 28 days for the largest, 27 for the middle, and 14.5 for the smallest. The fun part was working out the lunar phases so that the conjunction would take place at a very regular interval. Which is why the lunar orbit speeds are what they are.
This is actually very much like Krynn, where all three moons work on their own schedule, and occasionally are all full at the same time, on which night they converge at the top of the sky in an "eye" (Solinari [white] as the white, Lunitari [red] as the iris, and Nuitari [black] as the pupil).
The Night of the Eye amplifies all magical powers; for example, the Dragon Orbs were crafted during a Night of the Eye. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
    
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2011 : 21:29:21
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Well, I did use Krynn's three moons as a basic model for mine, but worked out orbits and phases for myself, since I didn't have access to any of that info from Krynn. I did wonder if there was any such conjunction there, but never saw any lore on it. Basically, I just liked the idea of three moons, and used something similar. (Mine are white, gray, and black, rather than white, red, and black.- They also all tie into my three main lycanthrope gods.) One is the "Mother Bear" archtype, the second is a feline goddess similar to Bast/Nephtet, and the last is a wolf-god, slightly similar to Malar, but more purely canine- a true werewolf god. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee) http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
    
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2011 : 00:46:13
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quote: Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Well, I did use Krynn's three moons as a basic model for mine, but worked out orbits and phases for myself, since I didn't have access to any of that info from Krynn.
The DL nexus website offers some fascinating diagrammatic and word-based systems on the working of Krynn's moons, if you're interested in learning more. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
    
USA
3750 Posts |
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