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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 05:40:10
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Yeah, Alystra put the things clearly in the last post.
Iīm going in and out of this topic since itīs very begining, biting my tongue, and whipping my fingers to not say anything here.
First of all, because one of the reasons of my absence of Candlekeep was posts like the one made by GMWestermeyer. This is funny in Gregory Houseīs series, but itīs not fun in my love, that is the Realms.
Second, I behave like a dwarf, and my musings about this could be very acid.
And, third of all, english is not my native language. To GMWestermeyer (that is very direct to the meaning of the words), and others, it could be complicated to understand what Iīm trying to say.
But I donīt resist it, so, here I go...
First of all, to say the exact term is not something that could be used as a shield, in any place. Anyone could climb up a brazilian "favela" and call the citizens poor people and drug dealers.
Itīs the exact term? Of course, in 90% of the cases.
Itīs offensive? Of course it is.
You can go to a Rio de Janeiroīs cop and say to him that he is corrupt.
Itīs the exact term. Yes, it is, in 90% of the cases.
Itīs offensive? Yes, it is. And you could be dead or jailed by this.
Heck, a historian! There is a reason for us[Brazil nation] donīt be called more "a country of the 3rd world", but "...in development nation". The first term is offensive.
By Moradinīs beard, even the "cheap" term is false. Absolutely false. It is only true if we all agree that USA are the only thing that exists and deserve any mention in the multiverse.
Here in Tha.... errr... my country, due to import tax, and other government stuff, anything that is imported cost to me 3-4 times the value that it costs to a north-american with the same payment that meself.
Put it plain and clear, I pay 18-24 US to any D&D paperback. Yes, this rule is used to hardcovers, supplements, softwares, GeForces, and anything else.
Cheap? This term is offensive to me, because it presumes that only already-developed nations exists, excluding all the rest of the world.
So, when I buy fantasy of Erik, Bruce, Rich, Troy, Ed, Elaine, anyone at anytime, Iīm making an investment (this term is correct?). This is not something cheap to me. But it is something that I pay with and for love. It hurts me to see that someone could act like this is "cheap", and give voice to this in the authorīs face, and in my face.
This is not to be touchy. This is to be real. To exists, to be someone, have feelings invested in something.
This is one of the reasons that I love Kentinalīs signature.
So, to be clear, direct, and sum it all: See the name of this topic? Civility. Nice word. I love it.
Thatīs all that is asked for.
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Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
Edited by - Chosen of Moradin on 08 Mar 2011 05:55:29 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 05:56:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
This is not to be touchy. This is to be real. To exists, to be someone, have feelings invested in something.
This is one of the reasons that I love Kentinalīs signature.
I have used others in the past, however found this text to offer some Wisdom. Of course the quote is not mine. I believe I have provided proper credit to Elizabeth Moon for the quote.
It does make sense to consider the effects of what action a person decides to do, in the quote the afterwards.
There clearly are other ways to say the same thing.
I still wish I could get it down to four line tag, however was not possible and might date me some as to that convention. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 06:05:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
You're basically saying "suck it up and piss off" instead of acknowledging the affect your words are having. And that pisses people off.
I believe that I explained myself clearly after Erik complained about my comment. After that, I believe there has been something of a hue and cry for me to abase myself, which I won't do.
I've quoted the exchange below, I think fairly. I consider this a civil exchange, no one is insulted by name, I express opinions about Realms novels generally, with ample notations of exceptions. This isn't about civility, it is about content.
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
But a traffic cop doesn't have to dictate everything. FR novels have produced some real gems but all in all very, very few of the FR novels have risen above the catagory of cheap setting fiction. Modern Dime novels. I think FR could have produces some stories that are true literature, if the editors (or whoever was actually in control) would give the writers more freedom while carefully holding the continuity whip over thier heads. :)
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
First of all, that's extremely disrespectful, and I don't know why we're tolerating it. Maybe you didn't mean it to be an insult, but that's how it comes across.
You don't like FR novels, fine--but that doesn't give you license to slap us all across the face for it. And if you do, that doesn't mean you aren't going to get called out on it.
So please--don't post like a jerk.
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
I like many, actually most, of the Realms novels I have read over the years but I won't apologize for calling it cheap shared world fiction, that's pretty much what it is. Why consider that an insult? Writing is a craft. Some work gets done quick and cheap, some long and expensive. Genre fiction can, IMO, rise to great heights but a lot of it is written to make money, for a quick sale. Heck, isn't that what Charles Dicken's did? Or Alexandre Dumas? Their output was prodigious partially because they were paid by the word. A lot of it was bad writing, some was incredible. That applies to Realms fiction as well. 
Frankly, I don't think my statement was insulting. Far worse things have been said by critics about shared worlds like FR. The Dime Novel approach to writing has a long, honorable tradition, and I would expect people here to know that.
Erik made the exchange personal, not me. His post was all about what I have done wrong in his opinion, my comments were about FR novels generally.
I don't know how the moderators work around here. Yes, I registered 5 years ago but just looking at my post count should show I never hung out here much. No moderator has contacted me, so either they are extremely hands off, or I haven't broken any forum rules. Though some have posted in the thread, but I thought those were their personal opinions, not posts in their guise as moderators.
At any rate, I encourage anyone thinking of leaving this forum because of my posts to reconsider. I frankly think that's unreasonable, but irregardless, let me leave before you do. I wanted to discuss the Realms, not piss in your pool or drive folks away. Instead I'll go aaway in a few days if things continue like this.
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"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 06:05:07
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Yes, you have given it proper credit.
As and old saying (that I donīt know if is particular to my country)... "think before you speak"... or, tranlated to our time, "google, before you tweet.". =) |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 12:07:17
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I kinda see both sides here.
Yeah, how GM wrote what he wrote was crass. But I also think some people are seriously over-reacting. Maybe both sides should do some thinking before they speak.
This is starting to turn into a witch hunt. |
Edited by - BlackAce on 08 Mar 2011 12:09:01 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 12:53:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
"think before you speak"... or, tranlated to our time, "google, before you tweet.". =)
Nice. I feel cloistered for not knowing that one.
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Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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wwwwwww
Learned Scribe
116 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 13:24:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by wwwwwww
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
It doesn't matter where someone stands on an issue; but making sweeping statements are NEVER accurate about individual products. Never. To make a sweeping statement to the negative IS always going to offend however...blanket profiling is bad.
That's very true. I know an FR author who has unapologetically made unnecessary, negative "sweeping statements" (on this very board) toward Christianity and general morals that I've personally found quite insulting. He has spoken his opinions as if they are fact, when in truth, they are merely his opinions.
I would stand and say that they are wrong then (if I were you);
It's not really that easy. As BlackAce mentioned, as soon as someone speaks against an author, it becomes a witchhunt. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 13:34:11
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| And I am insulted by calling this little dust up a witchhunt. People were killed in witchhunts. *sighs softly* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 13:35:51
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce
I kinda see both sides here.
Yeah, how GM wrote what he wrote was crass. But I also think some people are seriously over-reacting. Maybe both sides should do some thinking before they speak.
This is starting to turn into a witch hunt.
I agree....seems like I take some time to attend to "the real world" and there are fireballs being tossed from every direction!
Alot of this thread is troubling to me...but especially things like this ...
"Because you cannot know how others will react to what you write, it becomes your responsibility to ensure that you do not write anything that will offend."
Thats very "thought police-ish".....to whom do we trust to be the arbiter? Using that precept in effect would kill all forums and social networking.
I see both side, and can respect both...but was kinda said when Erik in a round about way called GW a jerk(i know....i know...it was implied , not a finger pointing in you r face thing, but still)....that's not the Erik I know and love , that's Erik defending his "children".....and I absolutely see why he did it...but it didn't help. Even if someone is a jerk, what good comes of calling it? i have over-reacted and spat out a name in a scroll that IO later regetted, so I'm not trying to be better than anyone else here....just looking at this with moy own experience.
It is much easier to ignore(even though I at time have not!)...than it is to try and "out argue" someone of their opinion. It is damn near impossible...always messy....and almost never worth the collateral damage.
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 13:40:25
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+quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
And I am insulted by calling this little dust up a witchhunt. People were killed in witchhunts. *sighs softly*
I have ancestors who were killed in Salem....in A WITCH HUNT....
It doesn't bother me that someone used that term here. Im sure they didn't mean it literally. (See how easy it is to assume the best instead of the worst)
(And it is true about my ancestors, not a grand-standing attempt to reach for an example....2 of them...and thats all I have to say about it.)
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 13:43:20
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quote:
Originally posted by wwwwwww
It's not really that easy. As BlackAce mentioned, as soon as someone speaks against an author, it becomes a witchhunt.
I can see how that view could be seen as accurate by some....we a a tight knit group here who are priveledged to have the authors and designers spend time here....spending the time and caring enough to share time, lore and lovr of the FR....
And we are damned afraid to lose those as we have some in the past. So we do tend to side with them and defend them emphaticly! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 13:50:02
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| I think it doesn't help that human instinct tends to be geared towards being defensive, thus assuming the worst rather than the best when something occurs (say you hear that your basement is flooded, well instinctually the usual assumption is 3-4 feet of water when it might only be a small puddle in the corner) or when reading what someone has written. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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wwwwwww
Learned Scribe
116 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 14:11:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
And I am insulted by calling this little dust up a witchhunt. People were killed in witchhunts. *sighs softly*
Really!? C'mon, you've never used a figure of expression before? Good grief . . . |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 14:22:00
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| A saying comes to mind *treat others as you yourself would want to be treated*. I found this of use to me over the years, easy, goes for everyone. |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Edited by - Zimme on 08 Mar 2011 14:22:44 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 14:26:26
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quote:
Originally posted by wwwwwww
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
And I am insulted by calling this little dust up a witchhunt. People were killed in witchhunts. *sighs softly*
Really!? C'mon, you've never used a figure of expression before? Good grief . . .
I try to avoid using figures of speech. I have had friend hunted for being a witch a few years ago. Yes people are stilled killed these days for being accused of being a witch.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 14:42:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by wwwwwww
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
And I am insulted by calling this little dust up a witchhunt. People were killed in witchhunts. *sighs softly*
Really!? C'mon, you've never used a figure of expression before? Good grief . . .
I try to avoid using figures of speech. I have had friend hunted for being a witch a few years ago. Yes people are stilled killed these days for being accused of being a witch.
Example right here of. Is Kentinal serious or being sarcastic? I could assume it either way, but without visual clues, I have no actual idea either way. Whichever it is, I have seen similar things said by email or on forums going both ways with false assumptions that led to hurt feelings and such. Smilies such as  and  help for the tone definately. Perhaps more frequent use of these could help? I dunno. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 15:45:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Zimme
A saying comes to mind *treat others as you yourself would want to be treated*. I found this of use to me over the years, easy, goes for everyone.
I agree 100%, but finally learned the hard way that not everyone wants to be treated nice! Some like to be the marytr or the outcast, etc., etc. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 15:59:00
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Here I am again. I really do mean it about going away, but I saw RW post, and out of respect to him, I wanted to clarify things.
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I see both side, and can respect both...but was kinda said when Erik in a round about way called GW a jerk(i know....i know...it was implied , not a finger pointing in you r face thing, but still)....that's not the Erik I know and love , that's Erik defending his "children".....and I absolutely see why he did it...but it didn't help. Even if someone is a jerk, what good comes of calling it? i have over-reacted and spat out a name in a scroll that IO later regetted, so I'm not trying to be better than anyone else here....just looking at this with moy own experience.
This is a good point, and it was not my intention to call anyone anything. I am sorry to anyone who took it that way.
What I said was "stop posting like a jerk," and that was just an attempt to use direct language. I don't think people are the sum total of their actions, and I would not presume to cast judgment about the quality or character of a person based on one or two actions. You can do good or bad things, and it doesn't fundamentally make you good or bad. I have posted like a jerk in the past (sorry for that too!), but I don't think that fundamentally makes me a jerk.
To sum up, posting like a jerk and being a jerk are not the same thing. For the record, I don't think anyone involved in this conversation (including GMW) is a jerk, and I would not mean to say that. I think GMW's post got blown out of proportion (and I acknowledge and apologize for my role in that).
All I endeavored to do was point out that what he said was offensive. I don't think he intended it that way (his followup posts seem pretty clear that he didn't), but like I said, I know several people who were definitely offended, at least one of whom swore off the site because of it (and the following discourse).
I am not advocating that the thought police storm in and limit what you say--only that you have integrity and take responsibility for what you say. I would much prefer it if people policed themselves--that we exercised (as I put it in the OP) civility. With great power, after all, comes great responsibility--and the anonymity of the Internet gives one great power to speak without consequence.
Let's not blow this out of proportion by declaring a witch hunt (in the common vernacular). Nowhere in my posts at least have I said people can't or shouldn't criticize the Realms or its novels--quite the opposite, in fact. It's a matter of *how* one says things--whether you can offer criticism without insult.
And even if you do insult people, you are perfectly within your rights to say that--and it would be disrespectful of me not to express that I (or someone I know) was insulted.
Like I said, you can criticize me all you want--I would be happy to take it. And though I may not agree, I will stand up for your right to say it. (I once navigated a thread on the WotC boards that was dominantly interlaced with toilet metaphor describing one of my novels, and single-handedly kept that thread from being closed by the moderators.)
But blanket condemnations insult people, and people who are insulted should either express it (which I did), ignore it (which I've grown tired of doing), or else leave (which they often do, sadly).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 08 Mar 2011 16:34:09 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 16:08:20
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| Well said Erik. I admire your willingness to take the good with the bad as long as it is constructive (even when its through the use of colorful language, as long as its constructively colorful) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 16:12:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Well said Erik. I admire your willingness to take the good with the bad as long as it is constructive (even when its through the use of colorful language, as long as its constructively colorful)
Thanks for the kind words.
To clarify, I don't even so much care about it being constructive (see Elaine's posts in the Editors thread--basically "constructive criticism" after the fact is overrated, since the book is already written), as long as it's civil. We're here discussing something we all enjoy--why must it turn to arguments?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 16:16:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Well said Erik. I admire your willingness to take the good with the bad as long as it is constructive (even when its through the use of colorful language, as long as its constructively colorful)
Thanks for the kind words.
To clarify, I don't even so much care about it being constructive (see Elaine's posts in the Editors thread--basically "constructive criticism" after the fact is overrated, since the book is already written), as long as it's civil. We're here discussing something we all enjoy--why must it turn to arguments?
Cheers
Good point. I guess the constructive part also would be more effective if you were tasked with re-writing the novel every few years (wasn't Lord of the Rings somewhat done like that?) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 16:21:41
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At this point, I am officially out of this thread. I don't feel chased off or anything--it's solely a matter of too much writing that I have to do, and lacking the hours to spend here.
If you have any more comments or questions you'd like to address to me specifically, email me (erikscottdebie AT yahoo DOT com). I'd say send me a PM, but my inbox tends to be full all the time, so email would be better.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 16:35:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Smilies such as and help for the tone definately. Perhaps more frequent use of these could help? I dunno.
I have offered this up scroll or in related scroll that these might help some. It still is not face to face and some of them even can be misread depending how each user intends it to indicate. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 16:45:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Zimme
A saying comes to mind *treat others as you yourself would want to be treated*. I found this of use to me over the years, easy, goes for everyone.
I agree 100%, but finally learned the hard way that not everyone wants to be treated nice! Some like to be the marytr or the outcast, etc., etc.
Unfortunately so, yes. |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 17:59:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
And I am insulted by calling this little dust up a witchhunt. People were killed in witchhunts. *sighs softly*
And here we are again with an overeaction and one that neatly illutrates Red Walker's point in his reply to me.
How was I supposed to be aware of Kentinal's raw feelings of the term "Witch Hunt" given it's frequent colloquial use?
By Illystria's ealier statement, the fault for the offense is entirely my own. That is how these things quickly snowball.
To Kentinal, my apologies if you found what I said offensive. However I stand by what I said.
Some have made comments that some have found disparaging and offensive. Erik has felt the need to state that he found them to be so. Others have also felt the need to add their feelings on the issue. This is all fair enough and well with in eveyone's rights.
What I have a problem with is that single incidents and comments are being singled out and from that, individuals are being singled out.
If multiple people single out an individual as someone to make an example of, that is not only a borderline personal attack but constitutes the beginings of mob behaviour.
Erik is in no way responsible for any of this and while he probably won't see this, let me be clear, I'm not accusing him of trying to start a "Witch Hunt". But certain people in this thread have taken it upon themselves to turn Erik's general remarks into borderline personal attacks. That, to me, smacks of torches and pitchforks and was why I used the term.
I don't believe anyone here has crossed the line yet but some people seem to have entirely missed the very point Erik was trying to make and have not been very civil. |
Edited by - BlackAce on 08 Mar 2011 18:05:08 |
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James P. Davis
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
244 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 18:52:31
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Okay, I've been reading this thread, just curious to see how things would turn out and have decided to throw in my two cents for whatever it's worth.
I love writing FR fiction, I'm proud to have written it, and worked hard at doing it, that said, I knew seven years ago the reputation that game-line novels as a whole have with certain people. I didn't care. I knew that some people would judge my books by their covers. I didn't care. I knew that I would see some pretty rough reviews and opinions of my work and the work of the new friends I've made and...that's the job.
Dime store novel and/or cheap fiction, OR good, entertaining, well-written work of fantasy fiction, I personally believe the distinction is better represented by the writing than any argument I might try to make on a message-board after the fact.
I also appreciate the desire to defend FR against those who might voice an opinion of it that one might not agree with. I just do not share that desire. In the end the readers will decide the nature/quality of the writing, even if they happen to believe that the book they just finished and thoroughly enjoyed is a cheap "dime store novel". I say thank you and please keep reading!
I know few will agree with my views on this subject and that is...awesome! Even be uncivil if you like. It's what makes the world go 'round and overall I believe any opinion can be a good opinion. Andy Warhol once said "Don't pay any attention to what they write about you. Just measure it in inches."
Basically I'm leaving the best argument for my writing (and all FR fiction) between the front and back covers. That argument sits on a heck of a lot of shelves with varying degrees of appreciation for the points being made. And that's as it should be. 
I think I've spent my two cents worth, it is not my intention to offend, but, well, I guess that just happens sometimes.
My best to all!
--James |
"Everybody is a book of blood; wherever we're opened, we're red."--Clive Barker
FR: RotD2:"Possessions"
Wizards:Bloodwalk
Citadels: The Shield of Weeping Ghosts
Wilds: The Restless Shore
Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep: Circle of Skulls (May 2010)
Book trailers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC-ska7ohVk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfvFdQ8bLp0 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 19:12:13
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| Perhaps there should be an Insult thread where each of us posts the mot vicious, nasty, poisonous message he can write. Then, when wondering if someone meant to be insulting, you could compare the post in question to the guy's official Insult message and perhaps decide, No, obviously, he didn't mean to be offensive. I can see that when he means to be offensive, he's a lot worse. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 19:15:09
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce
To Kentinal, my apologies if you found what I said offensive. However I stand by what I said.
Accepted.
Yes indeed you would not know some terms would upset me in ways that they would not upset another. Unless you knew me far better. Few really know me as far as that net goes.
I am sure we have disagreed in the past, however I do not believe either of us said something to the effect "I do not care how other users feel to what I post"
I care about what people might think about what I type. I can understand that some people will disagree with my world view.
I do moderate some small sections of the web. Moderation is an art.
I have been very heavy handed, looking at the rules and I have at times been very light handed.
In part because of almost being banned because host thought I needed a cooling off period - even though I did not abuse my authority - just used it sooner then some others would.
It becomes a learning experience to know when to act that protects the community, as opposes harms it.
Saying sorry does work a lot better then saying every one knows I am correct. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 19:19:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Perhaps there should be an Insult thread where each of us posts the mot vicious, nasty, poisonous message he can write. Then, when wondering if someone meant to be insulting, you could compare the post in question to the guy's official Insult message and perhaps decide, No, obviously, he didn't mean to be offensive. I can see that when he means to be offensive, he's a lot worse.
Sarky but funny too.
There's plenty of times when it's startlingly obvious to us if something we say or write is going to be found offensive but sometimes it would take an omnipresent psychic. |
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A Plea for Civility
Topic Locked
