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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 05:09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Now you're just splitting hairs.
While I can understand the distinction between good and bad "dime novels", (And honestly, how can you even call them that when the average cover price for a paperback version is 6$??!!) the simple truth is that that type of fiction has gotten a bad rep over the years, so calling something "cheap setting fiction" is akin to calling it trash, no matter WHAT your intent. And never mind that even Ian Flemming and Arthur Conan Doyle, among others, wrote that type of fiction. It's not just the words you used, GMW, it's WHAT they have come to MEAN. To most (reasonable) people, that is indeed an insult, regardless of whether it is meant that way. Pulp and dime fiction is generally looked down on by many people as the bottom of the literary heap. Even though some of our greatest works of the last century WERE of this type of writing. Most people just don't realize that, and lump the good together wit hte bad as general rubbish. So I fully understand why someone would get insulted by such comments- it has everything to do with the context.
Take a look at how much a dime would buy back in the day... I bet you will be surprised.
And yeah, context. If i were writing for the New York Times book section yeah, my comment would most likely be a slam. But here? I don't think so. And even then, after my explanation post you'd think people would have gone "oh, yeah. make's sense." Instead of claiming an insult is in the eye of the insultee.
As for you, Dalor, if that is your real name , you won me over.
My criteria are limited. I've written a book review column for a couple years for Knights of the Dinner Table magazine, I'm a historian, I write for a living (non-fiction history), and i've been reading fantasy fiction for decades. Frankly, sounds like these Realms authors have better criteria. I just don't get why they hate setting fiction so much that they don't wish to be sullied by an association with it.
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"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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Tasker Daze
Seeker
84 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 05:18:36
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
...the new FR writers don't seem to understand the history of the fantasy genre.
Broad brush there, brother. I'm a new FR writer, a student of the genre, teach fantasy and science fiction writing with an eye to the foundational texts going back to the Greeks, and have been a finalist for the Hugo, Nebula, and World Fantasy Awards. I understand the history of the fantasy genre.
 Professional Criteria! 
You mean credentials. 'Criteria' would be a list of characteristics that indicate something. For example, one of the criteria of fantasy fiction is that it include elements that are fantastic or magical.
Yes, posting this makes me a pedantic ass.
I don't think we need the word "pedantic" in there. And by your logic, if I say that's not an insult, then it's your bad if you don't like it. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 05:51:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Actually not. If WotC stops supporting at least one ED FR novel per year (or pays him not to write)the ownership of FR reverts back to Ed.
At least that is how the contract is reported to read. From all indications Ed does not want ownership back because it would complicate his life, however WotC can not kill FR.
Really?
Now that is wonderful news...if it is true. Is there any way to confirm that? I'd eat the paper it would take to hold my statement if I could find confirmation on that!
This was posted about two or three years ago in one of the ask Ed scrolls. Okay maybe I am missing a year or two. That post by THO is what I base my understanding of of the contract. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 08 Mar 2011 00:03:00 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 06:00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Now you're just splitting hairs.
While I can understand the distinction between good and bad "dime novels", (And honestly, how can you even call them that when the average cover price for a paperback version is 6$??!!) the simple truth is that that type of fiction has gotten a bad rep over the years, so calling something "cheap setting fiction" is akin to calling it trash, no matter WHAT your intent. And never mind that even Ian Flemming and Arthur Conan Doyle, among others, wrote that type of fiction. It's not just the words you used, GMW, it's WHAT they have come to MEAN. To most (reasonable) people, that is indeed an insult, regardless of whether it is meant that way. Pulp and dime fiction is generally looked down on by many people as the bottom of the literary heap. Even though some of our greatest works of the last century WERE of this type of writing. Most people just don't realize that, and lump the good together wit hte bad as general rubbish. So I fully understand why someone would get insulted by such comments- it has everything to do with the context.
Take a look at how much a dime would buy back in the day... I bet you will be surprised.
And yeah, context. If i were writing for the New York Times book section yeah, my comment would most likely be a slam. But here? I don't think so. And even then, after my explanation post you'd think people would have gone "oh, yeah. make's sense." Instead of claiming an insult is in the eye of the insultee.
As for you, Dalor, if that is your real name, you won me over.
My criteria are limited. I've written a book review column for a couple years for Knights of the Dinner Table magazine, I'm a historian, I write for a living (non-fiction history), and i've been reading fantasy fiction for decades. Frankly, sounds like these Realms authors have better criteria. I just don't get why they hate setting fiction so much that they don't wish to be sullied by an association with it.
My real name is Anthony Edwards...so I guess only my alter ego "won you over" but I wasn't trying to...you ARE a pedantic ass at times! But like I said, you are just you; and I kinda like ya.
As for this whole debate, it stems from the mutable use of verbs. Once upon a time "Dime Fiction" wasn't an insult...today, it is.
Some dinosaurs went extinct because they couldn't evolve. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 06:25:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
I don't think we need the word "pedantic" in there. And by your logic, if I say that's not an insult, then it's your bad if you don't like it.
Well, 'pedantic' neatly identifies precisely what sort of ass I was being.
I recognize that I was being an ass, I tried to make it a bit tongue in cheek by pointing it out.  |
"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 07:29:49
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| Yes, a dime would buy a lot more "back in the day", but it was still JUST a dime. And perhaps you're also forgetting that many of the early horror genre stories were called "penny dreadfuls". Nowadays, BOTH classifications would be considered insulting to the writer. It has nothing to do with the actual cost of the book, but the perceeved VALUE of the work in question! (Why do you think they say "not worth a nickel"? Same idea.) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 13:11:20
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
Then why the hell were you insulted by 'cheap setting fiction' or 'dime novel.' Hell, especially dime novel?
Can't and won't speak for anybody else, but I don't believe I ever said I was. I was insulted by your assumption that newer FR authors don't know anything about the history of the fantasy genre. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 14:23:33
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| I hope I didn't inadvertently insult anyone with my posts. I love the realms and I love having a place to discuss it with some of its authors. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 16:34:28
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| I can't speak for anyone else, Alisttair, but you're okay by me. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 16:56:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
I can't speak for anyone else, Alisttair, but you're okay by me.
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Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 18:06:21
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Not to address the OP (my definitive word on the matter), but . . .
Ditto CR re: the big assumption that just because one is a *new* FR author that one hasn't read lots of fantasy and studied the genre. I suspect that comment was directed at least partly at me, and while I confess to being young (28 in July), that doesn't make me uneducated.
In my experience, one wouldn't be a published fantasy author without having read extensively and studied at least a bit.
Also ditto RLB, re: Allistair FTW.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 07 Mar 2011 18:11:11 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 18:42:19
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| It's because I like have authors and designers here that I try to keep a civil tongue and ask others to do the same. I've held my tongue more than some would believe, too. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 18:52:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's because I like have authors and designers here that I try to keep a civil tongue and ask others to do the same. I've held my tongue more than some would believe, too.
Ditto. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 22:52:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
Then why the hell were you insulted by 'cheap setting fiction' or 'dime novel.' Hell, especially dime novel?
Can't and won't speak for anybody else, but I don't believe I ever said I was. I was insulted by your assumption that newer FR authors don't know anything about the history of the fantasy genre.
Well, Erik was offended by it, and it seemed a lot of folks were backing him. My point is that any author who knows the fantasy genre and its history should feel insulted to have his work described as a 'dime novel.'
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"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 23:14:56
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http://history1800s.about.com/od/1800sglossary/g/dimenoveldef.htm
quote:
Definition:
A "dime novel" was a cheap and generally sensational tale of adventure sold as popular entertainment in the 1800s. Dime novels can be considered the paperback books of their day, and they often featured tales of mountain men, explorers, soldiers, detectives, or Indian fighters.
Despite their name, the dime novels generally cost less than ten cents, with many actually selling for a nickel. The most popular publisher was the firm of Beadle and Adams of New York City.
The heyday of the dime novel was from the 1860s to the 1890s, when their popularity was eclipsed by pulp magazines featuring similar tales of adventure.
Critics of dime novels often denounced them as immoral, perhaps because of violent content. But the books themselves actually tended to reinforce conventional values of the time such as patriotism, bravery, self-reliance, and American nationalism.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 07 Mar 2011 23:58:18 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 23:26:47
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This will be my LAST post on the topic of dime-novels, and it's to point out an inaccuracy.
There's no point in further trying to engage me on this point, as after this, I'm washing my hands of the whole discussion. If we want to talk more about civility and respect, great.
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
Well, Erik was offended by it, and it seemed a lot of folks were backing him. My point is that any author who knows the fantasy genre and its history should feel insulted to have his work described as a 'dime novel.'
Pretty sure you meant to add an "n't" there.
And for the record, I *wasn't* actually offended by it, no more than I would be offended by someone saying my books were actually sheep. I just felt obligated to say something.
Let me tell you how your description reads to me (and, I think, to a lot of people). Historically, of the many thousands upon thousands of dime-novels produced, 99% of them are sheer drivel. 1%, however, are the likes of some really great, classic pieces--real gems.
So 99% of Realms novels suck, but 1% of them are really good? What is that, like 3 potentially good pieces?
(Bet you $10 million I don't rank in your estimation of the "gems" of the FR dime-novel pile.)
That's how that comparison reads to me, and I think it's completely and 100% useless. You're labeling yourself yet another reader who doesn't give FR and/or shared world fiction the light of day, because to you, the vast majority is on the edge of worthlessness.
And let me just get something straight, for full disclosure: I am a hack, which is a term I use with endearment. I write to entertain, not to enlighten or preach or explore deep truths about the human condition, or even really to make money. I mean, all that's in there, but my *main focus* is to tell stories. And if you don't like it or don't think it's worth-while, bully for you, I'm gonna go back and do some more writing if y'all don't mind.
As for my initial post on this topic, I was posting exactly what I claimed to be posting in the first place, which was that casual prejudicial statements like that do offend people, and that's the sort of thing that drives people away, rather than creating a dialogue. I know several people who were definitely offended by it, and at least one person chased off Candlekeep because of it.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2011 : 23:47:58
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
Well, Erik was offended by it, and it seemed a lot of folks were backing him. My point is that any author who knows the fantasy genre and its history should feel insulted to have his work described as a 'dime novel.'
Heh. Are you sure that's your point? That any such author should feel insulted by the description?
That's a typo of course, but it's funny enough that I couldn't resist, sorry. |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 00:42:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
And I stand by my assertion that if you say something that insults someone, it is an insult, whether you meant it as an insult or not. No amount of logic is going to mean 1 + 1 =/= 2.
Really? You must go through life apologizing then, because I guarentee you that people have been insulted by things you said which you never intended were insults, and which reasonable people would not consider insults.
Your last sentance is true, albeit ironic in this context.
And I'm sure he apologized, as well. If someone feels insulted by something you say, and tells you as much, it's only courteous to apologize -- unless you specifically intended it as an insult.
Without wanting to rake over old coals, a recent, very personal, real life incident makes me feel the the need to add a caveat to these quotes.
You're right that if you unintentionally insult someone it's only polite to apologize. But sometimes people find the truth insulting and offensive. They really don't want to hear it. They really don't want to hear that they've done or said something insulting or offensive and they even find the implication that they have, insulting. Should we lie to people who find the truth unwelcome just to placate them?
Confronting someone for their own bad behaviour is a cast iron, guaranteed, way to cause them offense. Nobody likes to be told they're in the wrong. So yes, its perfectly possible to say something someone finds insulting or offensive without ever needing to apologize for it. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 00:43:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I know several people who were definitely offended by it, and at least one person chased off Candlekeep because of it.
This is actually a great fear of mine. That the nature of offending posts will only increase to the point where even some of our most tolerant scribes will simply lose whatever interest they have in this site, and move on.
If nothing else, it proves that we've all failed at the primary duty of Candlekeep. And I shouldn't have to remind you all about just what that is!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 01:10:34
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Few of us can completely approve or agree on the merit of everything we read. I'm hesitant to start scrolls which express any criticism about FR novels (no matter how fair, diplomatic, and thoughtful I might think it) because this is just an invitation for other scribes to converge upon and attack the novels/authors in a progressively scathing flamefest. The sad reality seems to be that many people only read the most recent post(s) instead of the entire scroll, creating an endless cycle of arguments about quoted arguments long after they've already been resolved. People naturally tend to focus on the details they expect to see, disregarding details which require more balanced consideration.
I try to abide by my personal guidelines at the keep (and forums in general): speak no evil, never feed the trolls, and consider it not so deeply. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Mar 2011 01:18:02 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 01:34:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Few of us can completely approve or agree on the merit of everything we read. I'm hesitant to start scrolls which express any criticism about FR novels (no matter how fair and diplomatic I think it might be) because it invites other scribes to converge and attack the novels/authors in a progressively scathing manner. The sad reality seems to be that many people only read the most recent post(s) instead of the entire scroll, creating an endless cycle of arguments about quoted arguments long after they've already been resolved.
My personal guideline at the keep (and other forums) is to speak no evil and never feed the trolls. Consider it not so deeply.
Well-said, Arik. I have transitioned to precisely the same attitude as regards my posting. While I'm certainly not a fan of everything that's been printed under the Realms logo, I have made efforts to move away from posting about it. I'm trying (and mostly succeeding) at sticking to a 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all' policy. An increased level of civil discourse is an admirable goal, and one that I totally support.
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How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 02:23:15
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| I'll admit that I often voice my opinions strongly, which may offend some- though I've never really understood how- but I definitely agree that forums like this are sometimes rife with negativity and flamage. I suppose it's the freedom we all have here to speak our minds COMPLETELY. As in- being able to get our points across in ways that a face to face discussion could not. But without that openness, we would not have intelligent discussions on forums at all. We all just need to remember that there's a PERSON behind that other screen. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 03:14:43
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I'll just add my two bits and be done...
I think we should all remember that we are here to discuss something that we all love, and that if don't love it we need not be here. We also need to keep in mind that not everyone has our perceptions or even the same understanding of language, so rather than using clever phrases and euphemisms we ought to just say what we mean. That way if we intend to insult someone or to not insult someone, then there are no misunderstandings.
I don't think that any of the authors are insulted by well-thought out and supported criticisms. Many, in fact, welcome it. When you have questions or problems with what they write, they like to know so they can improve. They might dismiss it if they disagree with you, but they aren't, IMO, insulted.
I feel bad that this had to come up at all. I have done my best not to intentionally insult people on here, and I have even avoided threads when I was too emotional to give a rational response.
There is no reason we can't have intelligent and open discussions, as Alystra said, so long as that is the intent of the people here. I love this place. I owe my sanity to this place (what little of it I have left) and I would like to see Candlekeep remain what it has always been, a community where we can discuss common interests in a civil and sometimes productive manner.
[EDIT:] I just had to add LOL to Arik for "speak no evil and never feed the trolls." Well said. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Edited by - Brynweir on 08 Mar 2011 03:16:46 |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 03:16:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
Well, Erik was offended by it, and it seemed a lot of folks were backing him. My point is that any author who knows the fantasy genre and its history should feel insulted to have his work described as a 'dime novel.'
Heh. Are you sure that's your point? That any such author should feel insulted by the description?
That's a typo of course, but it's funny enough that I couldn't resist, sorry.
Yeah, my typos suck.  Well, 99% of my typos suck. 1% are brilliant!
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I know several people who were definitely offended by it, and at least one person chased off Candlekeep because of it.
My near-universally condemned post drove someone away from here? That seems... odd.
I certainly haven't felt very welcome here myself. I feel like the guy who comes back to his old high school's homecoming a couple years after graduation. Sure, a few folk sort of remember you but most folks just look at you strange for coming back... and wonder if you r are some sort of predator.
Frankly, that is ultimately why I think so many grognards get angry at edition changes. Hasbro isn't simply upgrading a product when they change editions, they are destroying a social network, groups of friends and acquaintences who bond over a shared enthusiasm.
'Course, that's off topic for the thread.
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"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 03:40:23
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
My near-universally condemned post drove someone away from here? That seems... odd.
Indeed it does appear odd to you. I tried before, tries again. It does not matter what you mean to type, it matters as to how other users react to reading what you type.
I do see you have been a member of candlekeep for something like five years. Maybe you should just write off the last week or two as bad weeks for posting. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 04:45:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Indeed it does appear odd to you. I tried before, tries again. It does not matter what you mean to type, it matters as to how other users react to reading what you type.
And I'll explain to you again, I can't control other's perceptions. Or are you at fault because I've completely failed to agree with you on this? |
"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 04:55:10
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| You're absolutely right, GMW. You CAN'T control others' perceptions, which is precisely the point. Because you cannot know how others will react to what you write, it becomes your responsibility to ensure that you do not write anything that will offend. The responsibility is ALWAYS with the writer to understand that others may be upset by their words, and NOT the reader to not be offended by something he sees as unacceptable. A writer of all people should understand this, or else he or she has no business being a writer. Posting on the net is no different. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 05:01:39
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Indeed it does appear odd to you. I tried before, tries again. It does not matter what you mean to type, it matters as to how other users react to reading what you type.
And I'll explain to you again, I can't control other's perceptions. Or are you at fault because I've completely failed to agree with you on this?
*Blink*
You replied to me before?
IIRC you are a professional reviewer or critic of what other people write. Even if you are not, here you certainly have criticized the words written by others or their editors.
Your profile claims you have served honorable in defense of nation, if true I respect you for that.
IAE I remove you from my life, Do As You Wilt. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Tasker Daze
Seeker
84 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2011 : 05:36:31
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quote:
Originally posted by GMWestermeyer
And I'll explain to you again, I can't control other's perceptions.
No but you could recognize those perceptions when stated, instead of arguing about it. You've been told you're coming accross as an ass, and you don't seem to care. That's what the problem is, people say "I'm insulted by your words" and you say "Yeah, well that's tough, because that's not what I meant."
You're basically saying "suck it up and piss off" instead of acknowledging the affect your words are having. And that pisses people off. |
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A Plea for Civility
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