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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 08:37:41
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quote:
Arik
His major arcanum was Mentalism. That still leaves the Invention and Variation arcana — one was his minor and one forbidden, but which?
I still cannot find any answer to this question, as it applies to Karsus or any other famous Netheril arcanist. It has important game context since it determines which spells/magics (fully one third of them) are "forbidden" and unusable. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 11:42:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
Arik
His major arcanum was Mentalism. That still leaves the Invention and Variation arcana — one was his minor and one forbidden, but which?
I still cannot find any answer to this question, as it applies to Karsus or any other famous Netheril arcanist. It has important game context since it determines which spells/magics (fully one third of them) are "forbidden" and unusable.
I think it might be possible that Karsus was one such Arcanist capable of majoring in all arcanums (merely speculation on my part due to the fact that he is all powerful, but it might actually be true...I simply have no proof...and you never ask a man of faith for proof  ) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2011 : 11:42:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'm glad you finally decided on one. That leaves one more thing: what will Karsus' title be?
O' Mightier than Ao |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2011 : 01:00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
Arik
His major arcanum was Mentalism. That still leaves the Invention and Variation arcana — one was his minor and one forbidden, but which?
I still cannot find any answer to this question, as it applies to Karsus or any other famous Netheril arcanist. It has important game context since it determines which spells/magics (fully one third of them) are "forbidden" and unusable.
I think it might be possible that Karsus was one such Arcanist capable of majoring in all arcanums (merely speculation on my part due to the fact that he is all powerful, but it might actually be true...I simply have no proof...and you never ask a man of faith for proof )
Part of the reason he wanted and tried to ascend as the god of magic was because he was pissed off that he was forbidden to utilize one arcanum. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2011 : 01:42:50
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| Are there any examples of wild magic in Netheril? Did it exist prior to ToT? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2011 : 01:49:22
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YES. The magical storms caused by the endless magical experiments by the archwizards, and which the phaerimm complained about. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2011 : 03:30:05
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The magical storms weren't just weather phenomena caused by constant abuse of Mavin's Worldweave?
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"Quasimagical items became virtually useless after the Fall, since their source of power — the mythallars — was destroyed."
Nothing more is said about quasimagical items after the Fall, it's apparently assumed they are of no more importance. I suspect inert quasimagical items would still be valuable (since they'd meet the physical requirements for item enchanting, and so would be made of the finest and most expensive materials, quality, and craftsmanship), so it's unlikely they'd all be melted down or destroyed.
Normal magical items were largely unaffected by the Fall, though there is brief mention of a few of these becoming magical artifacts (I'd assume these items could operate or cast magics that exceeded 9th level).
Yet Thultanthar/Shade has always had a working mythallar. No doubt they took a lot of quasimagical stuff with them and have probably fashioned a lot more over the millenia. This stuff only operates within the mythallar field (one mile radius), but that's enough to multiply the city defenses with tons of quasimagical toys. Surely there are a few quasimagical items of great power which are now quasi-artifacts ... and the Shadovar might already possess a few (thus explaining their apparent use of Mavin's Worldweave for terraforming).
The Shadovar probably know of particularly famous and potent quasimagical items (quasi-artifacts), it's just a matter of finding them. Any ancient bauble might an actuality be a quasi-artifact of immense power (Mavin's Crown of Weather Control or Proctiv's Gauntlets of Mountain Moving or something), and nobody would ever know unless they brought it within an active mythallar field. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2011 : 03:47:48
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It's not just caused by Mavin's Worldweave. It's a collective anomaly in magic caused by the archwizards' endless and various magical experiments. I quoted something from Swordplay HERE.. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2011 : 06:15:31
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| That seems like a pretty loose interpretation, Dennis. These magical storms are uncontrolled magic, but I'm not sure I'd call them wild magic. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2011 : 22:01:26
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FR Wiki says: "Wild magic zones are areas where the Weave is damaged or distorted, in such areas spells can backfire upon its caster, target the wrong location, be dramatically increased in power, or indeed, anything can occur."
The said effects are more or less the same with the magic storms' effects to the phaerimm. It was also mentioned [in a sourcebook or two] that the Netherese's excessive use of magic tore holes in the Weave which Mystryl had to consistently repair. Maybe the Weave took a permanent damage on some areas, thereby increasing the potency and wildness of the magic storms. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 10 Feb 2011 22:02:32 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2011 : 22:21:25
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Lost Empires of Faerun states: "By making periodic visits to Netheril, [Arthindol the Terraseer] sought to further the study of the Art among the Netherese and shape the evolution of their history. In this manner, he hoped to cultivate new forms of magic that might enable the sarrukh to defeat the phaerimms once and for all."
He seemed determined to exterminate the phaerimm. Yet, did he and his brethren lend enough support to the Netherese to at least counter the phaerimm's lifedrain? Had the lifedrain been lifted, there would have been a chance that Karsus would forget about his ambition to ascend and instead focus on the expansion of the empire. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 10 Feb 2011 22:22:55 |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2011 : 03:55:45
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| Ach! It was about time! Well done highpriest Alisttair! ALL HAIL KARSUS! |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2011 : 04:19:02
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I can share that the mythallar were made by strands of the Weave,
that tidbit comes from the 1st story in the antholody in the
Archwizards trilogy. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2011 : 06:15:58
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I can't recall any mention of that, nor find it. Here are the references to the mythallar in that short story you're talking about [Trial by Ordeal Lisa Smedman]:
quote:
Two buildings stood out from the rest: the cagelike enclosures that housed the enclave's two mythallars-enormous spheres, more than one hundred and fifty paces in diameter, that channeled raw magical energy from the Weave. Energy pulsed out of each mythallar, sustaining the magic that kept the enclave afloat, and powering all quasimagical devices within the energy field's one-mile radius.
Another one on shadow mythallar, invented by (of course) Telamont:
quote:
Reading it, he saw something he would have thought impossible: notes on the creation of a mythallar that drew not from the Weave but from the spaces between it. From the Shadow Weave.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2011 : 06:17:40
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Oops, my mistake. Found what you meant.
quote:
His realization was that an ordinary mythallar was absolutely enormous-it had to be, because of the material that went into its construction: long strands of the Weave itself-but a mythallar made of shadowstuff, made from the spaces between the Weave didn't need to be so large. It could be compressed, tiny. Small enough to place inside a shadow double.
This still makes me wonder how exactly did Shade's mythallar survive the Spellplague. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 18 Feb 2011 09:23:16 |
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Tasker Daze
Seeker
84 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 11:45:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Oops, my mistake. Found what you meant.
quote:
His realization was that an ordinary mythallar was absolutely enormous-it had to be, because of the material that went into its construction: long strands of the Weave itself-but a mythallar made of shadowstuff, made from the spaces between the Weave didn't need to be so large. It could be compressed, tiny. Small enough to place inside a shadow double.
This still makes me wonder how exactly did Shade's mythallar survive the Spellplague.
It was too kewl to be affected by logic.  |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 19:31:01
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| Shar's blessing? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Synthalus
Learned Scribe
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 21:57:15
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good question!
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"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
— H.P. Lovecraft (The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 06:20:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Shar's blessing?
Shar herself took 'damage' during the SP. I'd like to think Telamont has some 'hidden' pool of min-SW. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 06:39:41
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Telamont was able to keep his mythallar functioning after the Fall (death of Mystryl). On a plane without the Weave to fuel the mythallar. Alternately, perhaps the Weave was present there, in which case the mythallar survived the ToT (death of Mystra 1.0). SP (death of Mystra 2.0) would just be another speed bump.
I speculate that Telamont's mythallar is not standard issue; he's probably engineered some of his planar mechanics into its design. It might even be fabricated from (or modified with) strange extraplanar essence or shadowstuff.
Telamont was basically one of Netheril's most brilliant arcanists, plus he's had a few dozen centuries to refine his magics. It's conceivable that his mythallar is far superior to those of Netheril. It's also possible that it's not the same mythallar that left the Realms. It could even generate its own localized Mythal-Weave capable of operating independently of Mystra's (or Shar's) failures. It could be equipped with "batteries" which can store a few months of Weave magic for times of emergency and transition. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 07:34:51
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The fact that Telamont was the one who first created a shadow mythallar may mean that upon or prior to creating it, he had conceived of the possibility of the Weave's and the Shadow Weave's collapse that would have consequently destroyed it, and brought his city down with it; and so sought and found ways to keep his mythallar active despite the possible shattering of the said two sources of magic. Who knows, he might have built a conduit from the Shadowfell to the Prime, which generates energies from the said plane to fuel his mythallar. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 07:54:20
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Telamont was not reputed to possess any extraordinary skills of divination. If he had any foreknowledge of upcoming disasters it would have likely come from another source, perhaps through some agency of Shar. I think it's more likely that his mythallar remained functional through luck; the particular quirks behind its construction/operation and environment (demiplane of shadow) allowed it to continue functioning.
As I suggested above, it might not be the same mythallar that left Faerûn. It's possible that it failed immediately (or was damaged) upon entry to the shadow plane and had to be replaced with a better model. We don't know a lot about what happened to Thultanthar immediately after it left beyond some references that the citizens struggled to survive and suffered a lot of hardships and problems. Perhaps it was cast adrift in shadow (couldn't fall down) for a while, perhaps it was in fact almost entirely destroyed and rebuilt.
I personally like the self-powered Mythal-Weave and "magical battery" ideas, either one could conveniently explain how the mythallar continued to operate uninterrupted through planar transitions and Weave-collapse events. Telamont's magic (like Larloch's) is probably advanced enough that he's figured out how to circumvent his Weave dependencies. Remember that Telamont is still an arrogant god-hating Netherese bastard, he openly mocks divinely-powered Mephistopheles and barely tolerates Shar's influence in his enclave as an inconvenient necessity. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 08:03:16
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I wasn't referring to divination. He had already acknowledged that he's not good in that art. That's why he forced Brennus to learn and master it. What I meant was a kind of foresight that goes with wisdom and cunning. When one invents something, he normally thinks of the possibilities of its destruction, and so seeks ways to stunt such possibilities. Which is, I believe, what arcanists also do. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 08:51:32
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| Most arcanists. Not Karsus. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 09:07:51
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Karsus must have thought of so many possible factors that would drag his plan to shambles. But like other genuis, he could not have seen all possibilities. He expected Mystryl to fight, not kill herself. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8066 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 09:42:47
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| lol, we're talking about the same guy who had to toss his big lump of radioactive heavy magic out a window before it blew up his entire city? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 14:35:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Karsus must have thought of so many possible factors that would drag his plan to shambles. But like other genuis, he could not have seen all possibilities. He expected Mystryl to fight, not kill herself.
I don't think he even thought it thru that far. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 15:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Oops, my mistake. Found what you meant.
quote:
His realization was that an ordinary mythallar was absolutely enormous-it had to be, because of the material that went into its construction: long strands of the Weave itself-but a mythallar made of shadowstuff, made from the spaces between the Weave didn't need to be so large. It could be compressed, tiny. Small enough to place inside a shadow double.
This still makes me wonder how exactly did Shade's mythallar survive the Spellplague.
It was too kewl to be affected by logic.
The same reason all other artifacts and mythals survived. It's just the sentience of the Weave that's gone, the natural processes remain. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 16:24:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Oops, my mistake. Found what you meant.
quote:
His realization was that an ordinary mythallar was absolutely enormous-it had to be, because of the material that went into its construction: long strands of the Weave itself-but a mythallar made of shadowstuff, made from the spaces between the Weave didn't need to be so large. It could be compressed, tiny. Small enough to place inside a shadow double.
This still makes me wonder how exactly did Shade's mythallar survive the Spellplague.
It was too kewl to be affected by logic.
The same reason all other artifacts and mythals survived. It's just the sentience of the Weave that's gone, the natural processes remain.
Ah, right. Mortal magic all went awry, unless there was a lot of it and it wasn't Halruaa. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2011 : 06:27:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Oops, my mistake. Found what you meant.
quote:
His realization was that an ordinary mythallar was absolutely enormous-it had to be, because of the material that went into its construction: long strands of the Weave itself-but a mythallar made of shadowstuff, made from the spaces between the Weave didn't need to be so large. It could be compressed, tiny. Small enough to place inside a shadow double.
This still makes me wonder how exactly did Shade's mythallar survive the Spellplague.
It was too kewl to be affected by logic.
The same reason all other artifacts and mythals survived. It's just the sentience of the Weave that's gone, the natural processes remain.
Ah, right. Mortal magic all went awry, unless there was a lot of it and it wasn't Halruaa.
The Weave and the Shadow Weave are just two of the many sources of magic. If the Sojourner managed to combine the energies from those two, I say Telamont [who is almost as old and as cunning as Vosthym, or more] must have devised ways to draw energies from several planes, most especially from Shadowfell, in preparation for something so dire as the shattering of the SW. He had learned long ago that though he could depend on Shar, he couldn't do the same at all times, as the dark goddess is fickle and often hides her secrets, and like other gods, is susceptible to destruction. Heh, her goal in the Twilight War didn't even match his. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Karsus Worship Thread
