| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Jander Sunstar
Learned Scribe
Turkey
275 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Oct 2003 : 21:51:56
|
I wonder if Mystra can ban magic to Asmadeus or other demons and devils as she did to Cyric. And I heard Corellon Larethian is the god of elven magic. Is Mystra able to give or take magic from them( ý m not asking if she does, but can)
I will be grateful If the sages of glorious Candlekeep help ne
|
Punish me if you will, for my hands are not clean. But deny me not my revenge!"
-Jander Sunstar |
|
|
Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2003 : 22:57:54
|
She certainly could deny magic to anyone....the only problem is that it would probably mean her expulsion from deific status if she chose to do so again, as she did with Cyric.
Larethian is the "symbol" of elven magic...he represents the "types" of magic that elves utilize, however Mystra is completely in charge of the Weave, so even the almighty Lord of Elves must delegate to her on Faerun... |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
 |
|
|
Jander Sunstar
Learned Scribe
Turkey
275 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2003 : 23:06:18
|
So can she deny magic to Asmadeus?
what can be the consequence when he finds a way to the realms?
|
Punish me if you will, for my hands are not clean. But deny me not my revenge!"
-Jander Sunstar |
|
|
|
William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2003 : 05:37:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jander Sunstar
So can she deny magic to Asmadeus?
what can be the consequence when he finds a way to the realms?
First he will eat all the little elves from Turkey. He He..He... Keeping you awake at night??? I doubt anyone can control this Demon
so lets hope he stays put. Do an online search,This is supposed to be the name of a real demon. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
|
|
|
|
The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2003 : 06:27:48
|
| Indeed Will, Many names of Demons and Devils, even some evil Characters usually have some basis in this world.. Whether by being a true person of 'evil' here or simply part of the Mythos of the religions we attempt to hold to truth. Thus explains why D&D had and still has some difficulties against Religious fanatics, but then change never comes easy. Still D&D is gaining credit as a game. It is unfortunate that Mystra may have control of him IF he enters the material, but if he remains on the other planes... Then Mystra drat.. I mean Midnight is doomed... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
|
|
|
Jander Sunstar
Learned Scribe
Turkey
275 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2003 : 08:32:08
|
Cardinal, do you mean she has no power out of material plane.
But aren't the home planes of gods out of material planes such as nine hells. I always thought she was the goddess of magic in all the crystal sphere. But I m not sure what is this crystal sphere. For example is kryn or greyhawk in the same crystal sphere of toril and connected to primal material plane
And is sigil in material plane?
I am confused about planes, damn my lack of knowlage.
|
Punish me if you will, for my hands are not clean. But deny me not my revenge!"
-Jander Sunstar |
Edited by - Jander Sunstar on 24 Oct 2003 08:57:43 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2003 : 09:57:50
|
So many questions...
Anyway I'll try to do my best -
Jander Sunstar started the thread by saying -
quote:
I wonder if Mystra can ban magic to Asmadeus or other demons and devils as she did to Cyric.
It would simply not be allowed. Mystra has control over the domain of magic in FR cosmology only. The difficulty with classifying Asmodeus as a 'deity' presents a set of problems not currently addressed by D&D mechanics.
Asmodeus is not a deity...at least in the traditional sense. He receives no power from worshippers, and seeks to completely destroy everything in the multiverse. Even the most black-hearted and self-serving devotee would have problems with that.
The only check on Asmodeus's power is Jazirian, but that is only if you follow the heavily-Christian influenced AD&D accessory Guide to Hell.
In my overall planar cosmology, the only power that could possibly deny a being like Asmodeus power, is the 'Immortal' -like beings that exist in five spatial dimensions. This idea was borrowed from the 1e tome DM's Guide to Immortals, which presented a theory of five spatial dimensions, which goes approximately so: for something to observe a dimension and all those "beneath" it, it must exist in a dimension "up" from it. Mortals can see and interact with the first three spatial dimensions of height, width, and depth only because they exist in the fourth. The fourth dimension is somehow perpendicular to the first three together, just as the third is perpendicular to the first two, and the second to the first. Immortals (who in more modern D&D terms are apparently just the gods), who have ascended in great power from mortality, have somehow achieved the ability to perceive the fourth spatial dimension; this means they exist in the fifth.
The fourth dimension is convergence, defining "the relation between two objects, finding all points of similarity." The fifth dimension is divergence, measuring "the unique nature or essence of an object in relation to all others." The reasoning of being able to perceive a dimension only by existing in at least one above it has led to the conclusion that there is an infinite number of spatial dimensions. However, the Immortals have discovered there is a metaphysical barrier to achieving the sixth dimension and somehow thus being able to see the first five.
This barrier to the sixth dimension has forced the evolution of a new set of sentient species in the multiverse. These beings have been known only to mortals as the Nightmare creatures, and even the Immortals know them as such. The Nightmare creatures are supremely alien to mortals, but mortals themselves. They perceive the fifth, fourth, and third dimensions, "backwards" to mortal (and Immortal) perception. Occasionally mortals and immortals get glimpses of the fifth dimension and are absolutely horrified by it and its "inhabitants", thus came the name Nightmare creatures. Similarly, the Nightmare creatures are horrified when they get a glimpse of the first dimension. If one could perceive all five dimensions, mortals and Nightmare creatures might look surprisingly similar.
The Guide is actually a very interesting, if kind of weird, read. Talk of the Nightmare creatures and the Old Ones, who exist beyond the barrier and in the sixth and several higher dimensions, can provide a very different perspective planar cosmology.
Jander Sunstar also also -
quote:
So can she deny magic to Asmadeus?
what can be the consequence when he finds a way to the realms?
I have already addressed the first question, so I'll move onto the second.
Asmodeus cannot leave Nessus, the Ninth Layer of the Nine Hells. His battle with Jazirian (again, Guide to Hell, saw him near-fatally wounded. Since that battle, just after the formation of the Great Ring, and the Outlands, Asmodeus has been 'trapped' in Nessus slowly and surely healing his wounds. Besides, if he ever did escape, the Forgotten Realms would hardly be his first choice for a visit.
Jander Sunstar again said -
quote:
Cardinal, do you mean she has no power out of material plane. But aren't the home planes of gods out of material planes such as nine hells. I always thought she was the goddess of magic in all the crystal sphere. But I m not sure what is this crystal sphere. For example is kryn or greyhawk in the same crystal sphere of toril and connected to primal material plane
And is sigil in material plane?
I am confused about planes, damn my lack of knowlage.
I am not Cardinal, but yes...she has no power outside of both, the FR Material Plane, or the FR cosmology.
The Outer Planes, are indeed 'out of the Material Planes' as you say, but they are still connected by a number of transitive planes...like the Astral, and Ethereal. Mystra is the goddess all of Magic for the crystal sphere of Realmspace (if 2e Spelljammer rules are in effect), remembering that there are crystal spheres for all campaign worlds, separate and completely closed off from each other. Only portals, and/or travel through the Flow can carry a person to another crystal sphere (again Spelljammer rules should apply).
All the different crystal spheres rest on the Material Plane floating in the Phlogiston (or Flow), a highly energetic plasma mass. In turn the Ethereal Plane connects to each and every crystal sphere on the Material Plane (via a Border Ethereal connection).
Sigil is not a Material Plane, but rather a domain all it's own. No one is really certain what Sigil is exactly. Some speculate that it is a null-space, or separate demi-plane of some unknown origin. The many theories behind Sigil's classification are enough to fill mulitudes of tomes, all filed away in the great libraries of the Guvners most scholarly scribes.
As for your lack of planar knowledge, seek out the 3e Manual of the Planes. It can provide a basic understanding of the planes in 3e.
I hope that helps...
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2003 : 10:43:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
Indeed Will, Many names of Demons and Devils, even some evil Characters usually have some basis in this world.. Whether by being a true person of 'evil' here or simply part of the Mythos of the religions we attempt to hold to truth. Thus explains why D&D had and still has some difficulties against Religious fanatics, but then change never comes easy. Still D&D is gaining credit as a game. It is unfortunate that Mystra may have control of him IF he enters the material, but if he remains on the other planes... Then Mystra drat.. I mean Midnight is doomed...
I didn't realize this as such till trying to get get more info. on this creature.I would like to read the Guide to Hell that Sage speaks of and I really need a 3e MotP. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
|
|
|
|
Jander Sunstar
Learned Scribe
Turkey
275 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2003 : 10:54:51
|
Thanks a lot Sage.
It will help I think. I m dowloading 3e MotP now from kazaa but if I cannot is there any site for this. Guide to hell will be the next if I find it. So any suggestions for free download(don't have a credit card  )
Another question, sorry but I can't resist. Is planscape another domain as its own as sigil or is it the setting of sigil?
I m quite ignorant about those. |
Punish me if you will, for my hands are not clean. But deny me not my revenge!"
-Jander Sunstar |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2003 : 12:15:42
|
Yes, and no.
The Planescape setting essentially refers to adventuring (and campaigning) across the Planes - Inner, Outer, Transitive, and Demi. As well as this, a PS campaign can be run entirely in Sigil (and I have done this on numerous occassions), as the city is large enough, and has much to attract the causal adventurer.
The 2e PS campaign setting, had a tome dedicated to adventuring just in Sigil, a guide to the City of Doors.
MotP 3e should be your primary choice for adventuring on the Planes in 3e. Guide to Hell, while a good tome, has many problems, as it contradicts alot of what has been published on planar lore previously. I would only suggest you obtain this tome, if you want an alternative theory to the standard AD&D planar cosmology.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Jander Sunstar
Learned Scribe
Turkey
275 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2003 : 13:14:54
|
Thanks again you added 1 point to my knowlage(planes) skill.
|
Punish me if you will, for my hands are not clean. But deny me not my revenge!"
-Jander Sunstar |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
|
|
William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 10:26:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sage of Perth
Only one point...humph!!!  .
Should at least be 1.5.......... Hes hard headed maybe. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
|
|
|
|
Jander Sunstar
Learned Scribe
Turkey
275 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 12:01:36
|
really I am a litle slow
Me not smart, me not understand.
Uhh, planes, yeah me knows lots
Really
|
Punish me if you will, for my hands are not clean. But deny me not my revenge!"
-Jander Sunstar |
|
|
|
The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2003 : 19:04:34
|
I'll have to look for that Guide to Hell... Could prove intresting. Old ones hhmmm? Call of Cthulu anyone ?
Still Took me a minute and I'm still running over that demension Ok nevermind. I got it now. Still... it reads like a Stereo instructions... UGH!
The Immortal Idea is very good though. I figured that was neat in 1e you class could become an Immortal ( techinically a deity). Sage you are a very learned man...  |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2003 : 06:15:20
|
Actually, if I remember correctly there was some information in the 'Guide to Immortals' concerning character advancement. I'll have to check though, it was a long time ago when I read that tome.
Even if there was, it is 1e based anyway, and will require work to bring it into 3.5e standards.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
William of Waterdeep
Senior Scribe
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2003 : 00:08:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
I'll have to look for that Guide to Hell... Could prove intresting. Old ones hhmmm? Call of Cthulu anyone ?
Still Took me a minute and I'm still running over that demension Ok nevermind. I got it now. Still... it reads like a Stereo instructions... UGH!
The Immortal Idea is very good though. I figured that was neat in 1e you class could become an Immortal ( techinically a deity). Sage you are a very learned man...
I like your Avatar, Darth Cardinal...No,really I like it;Looks like some kind of Deathknight.More suited to a Half-Orc than the other. |
Courage isn't the lack of fear but rather believing in and doing what you know is right even though fear is present.
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Limits of the powers of Mystra
