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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 13:42:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
Paizo taking over the IP is something I think we'd all like to see, the Golarion suppliments are fantastic and dripping with all kinds of juicy lore that FR fans love. However James Jacobs and Co. have said on numerous occasions that they aren't interested in working with any licenced material ever again, after the debacle they went through with Dungeon and Dragon. Nor do I think Paizo would be interested in buying the FR IP even is Hasbro was willing to sell, which is highly doubtable. I think Paizo is pretty happy with what they've got going on right now.
Yes and No. Yes, I do like Paizo's suppliments however I don't think they have the capacity to take on multiple settings of the D&D line if they went that route. Plus, I'm sure they'd want to do their own thing with the Realms which might include another RSE or yet another drastic change to the setting. This then would alienate all the current 4E Realms fans and start up another whole "edition war" or "WotC vs. Paiso" war.
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit
One interesting theory, regarding D&D, not specifically FR, is that they may take D&D and rebrand it as a collectible card/board game RPG. People can pirate books, they cant pirate the new Ravenloft board game. Who knows what the future holds for our hobby.
Not in the sense that Magic: The Gathering, Yu Gi-Oh, Star Wars is/was I'm sure. These Fortune Cards are there to compete with Paizo's own version of cards that affect their RPG.
As a side note, has anyone played or bought the Ravenloft board game? If so, how was it?
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 13:57:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Not in the sense that Magic: The Gathering, Yu Gi-Oh, Star Wars is/was I'm sure. These Fortune Cards are there to compete with Paizo's own version of cards that affect their RPG.
Just so you know, the RPG cards that Paizo has been selling are not Pathfinder specific, but fall under the 3/3.5 Open Gaming License. They are also pretty generic enough that you can use them with non-OGL systems (with minor tweaks to bonuses/etc.). |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 15:44:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Speculation on my part, but I think WotC will be dropping the Forgotten Realms name and using the name Neverwinter for the setting.
RA's new books have Neverwinter in the title, a new guide called Neverwinter is on the way, a computer/mmo called Neverwinter is on the way. Wizards is slowly phasing out the Forgotten Realms logo on the novels.
I could be wrong, yet it wouldn't surprize me.
Based on the inside information I know, I feel pretty confident in assuring you that you're wrong. (Three cheers!  )
The NWCG is definitely a Realms product heavily steeped in the setting (with history, geography, politics, etc.), though it's still usable without a lot of rework in a non-Realms campaign (e.g., you like the city but aren't running a Realms game, so you can transplant pretty much everything in the setting into your own world).
I think it has both broad and localized appeal. I really think people are going to like it. A lot.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 16:42:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Yes and No. Yes, I do like Paizo's suppliments however I don't think they have the capacity to take on multiple settings of the D&D line if they went that route. Plus, I'm sure they'd want to do their own thing with the Realms which might include another RSE or yet another drastic change to the setting. This then would alienate all the current 4E Realms fans and start up another whole "edition war" or "WotC vs. Paiso" war.
Sorry Diffan, I didnt mean to try and speak for everyone. I will clarify by saying that I think many people (myself included) in the pro pre-spellplague camp would like to see that. But thats just more of a pipedream in the hopes that they would reverse the changes. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 17:08:41
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When you split your creativity amongst several settings, each suffers.
That being said, Paizo would never want to license or buy the Realms. They already produce a damn good product designed to take the place of the Forgotten Realms; why would anyone produce another product that would cut-into the market share of their primary product? It is in Paizo's best interest if the Forgotten Realms would just go away.
Sadly, I think FR's future is entirely dependent on whatever Hasbro decides to do with it, and there will be no other company playing savior this time.
I may purchase game-products without the FR logo on it, but I will not buy D&D novels without it. I have tried some from other settings, and 'generic D&D' doesn't interest me in the least.
Think about the best game-products you have ever read - they were all world-specific, weren't they? Why was Runequest so damn good? Why is Warhammer and Warmachine so popular? ONE WORLD.
Generic 'one size fits all' just doesn't engender a dedicated fan-base. Without FOCUS, products get that washed-out feel. I just hope the WotC guys know what they are doing.
No anger... not a bash by any means... just an observation by someone who has perhaps out-lived his usefulness to a hobby he loves. All I feel is sadness these days (in regards to D&D).
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 17:16:08
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| They did not cancel Shadowfel, that's the only book I thought of checking out |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 17:25:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
When you split your creativity amongst several settings, each suffers.
That being said, Paizo would never want to license or buy the Realms. They already produce a damn good product designed to take the place of the Forgotten Realms; why would anyone produce another product that would cut-into the market share of their primary product? It is in Paizo's best interest if the Forgotten Realms would just go away.
I don't know that I agree with the last sentence, but I do tend to agree that even if the FR IP became available, Paizo would not go for it -- unless they also had the money to staff up to give it proper support. Paizo is doing some really great stuff with Golarion, and while I think they could do equally great stuff with the Realms, it would require either more people or less focus on Golarion. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 17:36:43
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But WHY would they? Why not put 100% of all your uber-great ideas into one insanely great setting, rather then two good settings?
IF they got a hold of FR (which I doubt could ever happen - I think Hasbro would rather just shelf-it), they would have to divert at least some resources to that setting, which TAKES from Golarion, which is their cash-cow.
It would be counter-productive, and a bad business decision IMHO. If such a situation did ever arise, it would only be due to the designers (over at Paizo) love of the Forgotten Realms, and NOT because it would be lucrative. They've already found their 'sweet spot', and I think their own fan-base might feel a bit 'betrayed'.
I just don't see it... sorry. It is what it is, and we just have to hope that this 'new direction' Erik keeps alluding to is a step in the right direction. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jan 2011 17:40:38 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 18:16:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
But WHY would they? Why not put 100% of all your uber-great ideas into one insanely great setting, rather then two good settings?
IF they got a hold of FR (which I doubt could ever happen - I think Hasbro would rather just shelf-it), they would have to divert at least some resources to that setting, which TAKES from Golarion, which is their cash-cow.
It would be counter-productive, and a bad business decision IMHO. If such a situation did ever arise, it would only be due to the designers (over at Paizo) love of the Forgotten Realms, and NOT because it would be lucrative. They've already found their 'sweet spot', and I think their own fan-base might feel a bit 'betrayed'.
I just don't see it... sorry. It is what it is, and we just have to hope that this 'new direction' Erik keeps alluding to is a step in the right direction.
That's why I said if they added to their staff -- so they'd have the manpower to do it. As for why they would want to -- just because something is a good idea, that doesn't mean it's a good idea for any setting you can name. Some nifty stuff would work better for the Realms, some would work better for Golarion. WotC and it's settings are proof that a good idea for one setting won't necessarily work in another. If Paizo wound up with the IP, some of their creativity might work better for one setting than the other.
So that's why I say that if Paizo staffed up, and therefore didn't affect their Golarion production, then they could do good things for FR.
It's all a moot point, though, because I also agree that the likelihood of Hasbro letting go of an IP is pretty low -- Frosty the Snowman has a better chance of survival in the City of Brass. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 18:49:28
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LOL at that last part.
While I agree with much of what you say, I think Golarion and the Realms fit into the same niche, unlike settings like Ravenloft (Horror), Eberron (Steampunk), or Athas (strange, alien world with psionics). They are targeted at the SAME fan-base, IMHO. That's why I don't think it would work - they are too similar in flavor.
One of the biggest complaints about current WotC lore is it's 'generic-ness'. When you are given choices as to where to place such-and-such, then it isn't really lore at all - its 'options'. How can fluff apply to a setting when the same fluff can apply to another setting? Its disingenuous.
That is what Paizo will be up against - why would they want that?
And if they kept all the lore completely separate, then they would have two separate teams creating similar lore for similar worlds - that's just counter-productive.
In a perfect world, Paizo would have gotten a hold of FR back when it was coming up with Pathfinder. That ship has sailed. I truly doubt they would want to try and fix what amounts to 'damaged goods', when things are going so well for them now.
Seriously, I will probably get flak for this, but... what is the first rule of being a lifegaurd? NEVER let the drowning person get a hold of you - they will drag you down with them. NEVER attach yourself to a sinking ship. As much as I would love to see what Paizo could do with FR, I think that would be the very first bad business decision they make. I think we are on our own here, and the Realm's future depends entirely upon how WE receive the next few FR products.
Hopefully Neverwinter will be the Lifeboat we have been looking for. I have high hopes in this regard.
All IMHO, of course. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Jan 2011 04:18:11 |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 18:57:56
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| If this does signal the true end of published D&D, then the downfall will likely be traced back to the introduction of 3rd edition, which drastically changed the game and alienated a huge base of customers. Essentially every time a game is changed, a certain portion of the base support dries up and the new game must then make up for that lost support before it can grow again. The law of diminishing returns pretty well caps that growth (assuming most of the old players stay away and new ones are costlier to get than the old), thus sowing the seeds of the downfall with the switch from 2nd to 3rd (I am discarding the 1st to 2nd switch since the differences were very minor in actual gameplay). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 19:06:12
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I remember the release of 3rd edition - it was met with much fanfare and whole-hearted acceptance (for the most part).
What 3rd edition did, IMHO, is breath new life into a dead game for an extra decade. I know I had given up on P&P RPGs just before then, in favor of comp-games, and 3e was like a godsend (to me, at least).
If anything, 3e will be remembered as D&D's Renaissance. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 19:13:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
LOL at that last part.
It was time to come up with something other than my usual vegan Malarite comment. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 21:27:59
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Markus, I agree with you on the fact that focused is better than generic, but I think WotC outlook on things has become that focus is bad, and with generic they can make things that have broad appeal and thus will be more likely to sell, whether or not they understand that this strips all flavor from a product I dont know.
I'm pretty sure this stems at least partly from the woes TSR experienced in its latter days with their 38 different campaign settings. They oversaturated the market with products that were competing agaisnt one another, basically making it so they were competeing agasint themselves. So I think WotC sees this and in trying to prevent repeating past mistakes, they have traversed to the complete opposite end of the spectrum.
In 3E they kept things down to 2 supported settings and licensed out a few more (Dragonlance, Ravenloft), which I'm guessing they were thinking that if they were getting paid and not fronting out the manpower and resoruces to do these themselves, then it was a win/win, but the end result is the same, self competition, leading them to pull back all their licenses.
When I say WotC I mean both them and Hasbro combined. I am curious as to the sales figures for 3E FR or EB books vs something generic such as Dungeonscape, Heroes of Battle, or the Fiendish Codex (I didnt include the Complete books on that list as they are just extentions of the core rules making people more apt to purchase them). If these books were better sellers perhaps this led to the reduced focus on campaign setting books, such as their posistion in 4E with the 1 Campaign Guide and 1 Players Guide per world, due to corperate pressure from higher up. |
Edited by - Gambit on 14 Jan 2011 21:31:36 |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 21:30:28
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| 3e resurrected a brand that was dying. This thread is full of speculation (obviously), but only time will tell what the plan is. I would wager the D&D brand takes up most of the pie-chart when it comes to marketshare, even up against Pathfinder. It's just a giant. |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 21:41:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
3e resurrected a brand that was dying. This thread is full of speculation (obviously), but only time will tell what the plan is. I would wager the D&D brand takes up most of the pie-chart when it comes to marketshare, even up against Pathfinder. It's just a giant.
True Matt, 3E was the saviour of D&D (perhaps PnP RPG's in general), but I think that this fact just proves that D&D is potentially vulnerable. I'm not saying that it is at the current momemt, but the possibility for it to fade off into obscurity is there. For every Goliath theres a David standing there with his sling and a readied action. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 21:52:00
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| I think it will fade again, and then find rebirth. It's happened twice before in D&D's history, but 3e was by far the biggest resurgence. |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 22:16:47
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Hello Apex,
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
If this does signal the true end of published D&D, then the downfall will likely be traced back to the introduction of 3rd edition, which drastically changed the game and alienated a huge base of customers.
With all due respect, two things:
1) The changes between 2E and 3E were not drastic. 3E to 4E saw drastic game rules changes.
2) WotC's sales figures for the Third Edition Core Rulebooks in the first year of Third Edition's release show that regular 2E fans, as well as new-to-the-game players, bought into the Third Edition game. This sales trend continued well into the release of the 3E FRCG and for years after that.
Again, and with respect, there was no great alienation of [2E] customers. There was a large amount of hyperbole on the internet, but no fan outcry that curtailed and limited sales.
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
Essentially every time a game is changed, a certain portion of the base support dries up and the new game must then make up for that lost support before it can grow again.
This makes sense as a generalization.
The key differences between the 2E-3E change and the 3E-4E change were that 2nd Edition D&D was long overdue to be modified and re-released as a new edition of the D&D game. The 2nd edition system was 11 years old when 3E replaced it.
The same was not true for 3E, which had grown and gotten somewhat bloated , but was by no means outdated and in need of replacement when 4E was made to replace it.
The key point is this: there was a demand for 3E. There was no demand for 4E.
My opinion is that WotC lost customers for releasing 4E when they did, because the fanbase was comfortable with 3E as it was. I'd wager Pathfinder caught a good chunk of those people and kept them away from 4E. |
Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 14 Jan 2011 22:22:07 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 22:57:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
The key point is this: there was a demand for 3E. There was no demand for 4E.
This quote reminded me of another quote from a Poster on the Crystal Keep forums here:
People honestly were expecting 4.0 to be 3.5, only with some impossible combination of it keeping the elements of the game that they were used to, while also adding new and groundbreaking changes. It's a pretty tall order for anything, and when 4.0 mostly provided the latter, people were disappointed. Fair enough.
This sums up what people expected 4E to be. Some strange hybrid of 3.5 and.....something else. And when there were large changes, people got miffed. Sure, there wasn't a high demand for a new edition, but the demand was there for additional supplements and support for D&D. I feel the Designers had their back to a corner. More v3.5 supplements meant more saturation and thus more rule/game breaking combinations/Problems/and BS that comes with every supplement they put out from the fan base. I'm sure they got the "Hey, we want new stuff!!!" then "This stuff breaks my game, how dare you!!" then more "We want more stuff!" It gets old, i'm sure. |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 00:19:54
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quote:
1) The changes between 2E and 3E were not drastic. 3E to 4E saw drastic game rules changes.
2) WotC's sales figures for the Third Edition Core Rulebooks in the first year of Third Edition's release show that regular 2E fans, as well as new-to-the-game players, bought into the Third Edition game. This sales trend continued well into the release of the 3E FRCG and for years after that.
As someone who played from the beginning of second edition, I would say the changes were very dramatic, as the game went from DM centric to player centric (ie all the skills/abilities/builds replacing the archtype and uniform system)
As for sales, sure 1st year 3rd edition killed last year of second, but i would bet my bottom dollar that in real terms (ie inflation adjusted) early second edition would have killed 3rd in sales.
quote:
The key differences between the 2E-3E change and the 3E-4E change were that 2nd Edition D&D was long overdue to be modified and re-released as a new edition of the D&D game. The 2nd edition system was 11 years old when 3E replaced it.
Here, I would argue that no changes are ever needed in a successful game (ie monopoly) and especially so in a mature game system (which is what D&D was by mid second edition). The problem is that the owners of said game pined for the glory days instead of recognizing a mature product and leaving it alone. Sure, sales spiked in early 3rd, as WOTC made a huge push into the computer gamer realm, but as witnessed by 4th edition, sales didn't stay and i would bet that is because the gamers they are getting now (and got in 3rd) are more fleeting than the gamers of the past.
Finally, no offense taken, i relish intelligent discussion. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 03:43:13
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I've seen much speculation saying that Paizo would not want to buy the FR if it became available. How do we know that? They already have several of the FR authors writing for them for Pathfinder, so what is to keep game designers from also following suit? If splitting their resources might prove detrimental to their own setting, why couldn't they invite other FR writers and designers to come aboard? It would make sense, considering that they are already working with several of them. The settings may be somewhat similar, but having BOTH names under their banner would actually encourage many FR fans to check out the other setting as well, IMO.
Also, remember that Forgotten Realms is not only a game setting, but a novel setting as well. Paizo already has their own in-house novel line, so adding the fan-base of the Realms would be a great boost for their sales, and would likely get a lot of cross-setting fans.In other words, expanding your customer base is good for business no matter how you look at it. And there are plenty of fans out there who only know the Realms from the novels, so if Wizbro shelves the setting, that would mean the books would all likely go by the wayside, too. I seriously doubt that ANYONE wants that. It would be better to have the entire FR brand in one place, even if that means going elsewhere to keep it going. They don't seem to be stopping the novels any time soon, but if 4th ed drops off the gaming map, the books could easily go right with it. To the loss of everyone. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
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http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
Edited by - Alystra Illianniis on 15 Jan 2011 03:46:24 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 04:48:29
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Because Pathfinder/Golarion is ALL theirs - its THEIR baby. They don't need to worry about a license, or what others have done before (as in the far-fetched scenario of them actually buying the FR IP). I had started to make a point before about authors/designers who have created non-shared/game world novels/settings, but erased it because I didn't want to stir the pot again. Here's the gist of it: Remember that RAS left and came crawling back, but DiTerlizzi would never even consider coming back to D&D.
'Success' of your own IP usually nullifies your desire to work for others. Why would you want to?
And I certainly hope no-one takes that out of context - its just a simple fact about human nature. Everyone wants to 'be their own boss'.
Add to that that Pathfinder was designed to appeal to the disgruntled OGL/3e fans, and Golarion was designed to appeal to FR/High-Fantasy setting fans, and you have a recipe for disaster if they decide to support a product/line/IP they have been leeching off of. The sheer 'goodness' of their products helped to torpedo the 4e Realms (not through evil intentions, but rather brilliant business savy).
I reiterate: it would be counter-productive. While Wooly states that they could hire more staff, note that I said 'resources'. It takes more then people to create, publish, and distribute another setting. The new release schedule would either double, and tax their funds & distribution network, or they would have to scale-back on Golarion/Pathfinder products, which would cause a major outcry amongst their dedicated fanbase (something they have seen quite visibly demonstrated recently against their primary competition). Writing products is just a part of the process - you still have to get them into the consumer's hands. The law of diminishing returns comes into play here.
They have pulled-off some miracles before, but I truly doubt they could make that work. The damage is done.
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I'm sure they got the "Hey, we want new stuff!!!" then "This stuff breaks my game, how dare you!!" then more "We want more stuff!" It gets old, i'm sure.
QFT
I have always fully understand the problem they faced, and why the decisions were made. I have never stated they should have done nothing - D&D/FR was beginning to stagnate again. I think we can all agree on that. I just feel that the direction they took was ill-conceived. You can say that "4e was ahead of it's time" if it makes you feel any better. Betamax and the Amiga were better products in their markets as well, and ahead of their time, but in the end it didn't help them. Sometimes you shouldn't create something 'new and different', you should just give people what they want, even if you have the know-how to create something better.
We can speculate and discuss until the end of time, or just wait a few months and let things play-out. As I have said, I have HIGH hopes for Neverwinter, and I think we should wait and not make our 'final decisions' until its release.
We at least owe them that; we had a good run. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Jan 2011 04:57:54 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 16:12:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I've seen much speculation saying that Paizo would not want to buy the FR if it became available. How do we know that?
Because we asked them, and they answered 
They are a wonderful bunch of people out there. 
Edit: Oh, and do try to read as much of the article as you can, it's got some great insights from Paizo tossed in there. (BTW, this is one of the few threads I wasn't posting as Ashe, but as myself [Matt D.]) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 15 Jan 2011 16:15:17 |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 02:08:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I've seen much speculation saying that Paizo would not want to buy the FR if it became available. How do we know that?
Because we asked them, and they answered
They are a wonderful bunch of people out there.
Edit: Oh, and do try to read as much of the article as you can, it's got some great insights from Paizo tossed in there. (BTW, this is one of the few threads I wasn't posting as Ashe, but as myself [Matt D.])
I've read about 2 pages of what you linked to so far. It seems to me that it honestly doesn't answer the question. He is talking about licensing a product (and he clearly has no interest in the headaches that come with that), but I believe what people here are talking about is buying the property, not just a license. I assume it would work like it does now where whoever owns it makes decisions. I believe there is also a degree of double talk going there. They state that they are content with one setting, but they also talk about detailing other continents and planets. In my mind, those would be other settings in all but name. It would be like taking the main continents in Eberron and Dragonlance and saying they are also on Toril (with a few changes to their cosmologies to make it all work smoothly, obviously). They are still different settings, even if they use the same rules. So, I see them saying "no more settings" on one hand, and "more settings, but with different terminology" on the other hand. That's just my take and not meant to be any kind of slam on them, and I may be misunderstanding them.
As for the hypothetical situation that finds the FR up for sale, I can think of reasons why they would buy it. For one, they would control one of their primary rivals instead of allowing someone else to revitalize it in ways they can't anticipate (and thus plan for). So, it eliminates a potential headache and direct threat. Another reason would be to boost their novel sales. I assume that is a sizeable chunk of the FR pie. The main reason I see them considering it under this hypothetical scenario is the video game angle. If they can somehow get out of the Atari contract and shop the brand around, they could do big things with it. It would give them a stable of settings, which includes a known video game quantity in the form of the FR, to shop around and not just their 1 property that they have now. I think the RPG could be maintained with minimal effort. They would switch the rules set to 3.5/Pathfinder (presumably to coincide with the rebirth of Mystra to explain the change in the magic system), and then add/subtract whatever was needed to flavor it like the Realms with some lines talking about portals between the worlds so people can adventure between the two (a move that will try to avoid fracturing the fanbase). Then start putting out suppliments and adventures. Obviously that's a simplification, but hopefully I am getting my point across.
Maybe they would view this as too much of a headache to even consider. Or, maybe when they are presented with a situation that they probably even now consider impossible they might reconsider their stance. It's one thing to ask what someone will do when a thought to be impossible scenario comes along, and quite another when it actually does. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 03:34:22
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I think that you hit the nail on the head with them seeing it as too much of a headache to consider doing so. Right now, they're making good product, good profit and they're happy (even if they get a bit stressed at shipping time...). Having to deal with FR's huge novel line, the video games and everything else is above what they'd consider "fun".
As for the double-talk and all that, the thread is over a year old (we were talking about Ravenloft right before it was announced about the board game). |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 04:00:33
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I agree fully with Tyrant. He hit it spot on about BUYING the property rather than simply buying the license, And he brings up several of the same points I made, although perhaps with more detail. Just for the novels and games alone, it might be worth their time, effort, and funds to consider, despite what some seem to think. I could certainly see them printing game material as well- after all, there really would not be that much work involved in switching the setting over to Pathfinder's rules- they could do that with a simple conversion booklet much like WotC did when first changing from 2nd ed to 3rd. And the changes would be far less drastic, so it would take even less in terms of work on the materials.
True, there would be a greater amount of publishing work, but the way I see it, the IP would give them the revenue to expand and thus there would be far less drain on resources than some have claimed. I'm not saying this would ever actually happen, but IF Paizo had the chance to buy it, they would have to be idiots NOT to!! Expanding their market, fanbase, AND growing the company would all be benefits of doing so.
Or, as MT said, they might not- and it would eventually wither away and die without any active sponsorship, which is what would happen if Hasbro shelved it. If WotC hangs on to it in spite of dwindling sales (unless there is indeed some lifeboat floating around in the form of 5th ed or a new direction for 4th) I can only see it fading out or becoming further homogenized into non-existence as a setting. Call me crazy, but somehow, I don't see Ed letting that happen. Heck, since he's already working with Paizo anyway to some extent, if they did buy it, they might even hive him full creative control. It could happen... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 05:45:26
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I would rather Paizo keep publishing Golarion. Currently reading Prince of Wolves. Damn good novel. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 13:09:34
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FR is too expensive for Paizo
I worked up a way of including Golarion stuff in my Realms, it's almost like in the 2e days when FR books were published every month.
Cards, boardgames and miniatures are not a part of the game.
WotC did a step in the right direction lately, but is dying cause the majority of customers are powergamers, with an endless greed for new mechanics bonuses, at the same time screaming about balance. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 14:52:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
WotC did a step in the right direction lately, but is dying cause the majority of customers are powergamers, with an endless greed for new mechanics bonuses, at the same time screaming about balance.
Youch, that's quite an amazing generalization and stereotype. Thanks for the reminder on why this site is viewed largely as arrogant 
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 15:32:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
WotC did a step in the right direction lately, but is dying cause the majority of customers are powergamers, with an endless greed for new mechanics bonuses, at the same time screaming about balance.
Youch, that's quite an amazing generalization and stereotype. Thanks for the reminder on why this site is viewed largely as arrogant
Yeah, because every single one of us holds a similar opinion.  |
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The future of 4E
