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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 17:53:33
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Hey all, just wanted to share this with you guys, its a thread over on ENworld that dissects the lack of 4E products coming out in 2011. Apparently WotC has cut back on book production and will only be releasing 3 physical books this year. I am sure this will elicit mixed reactions here at the Keep, from members like Matt and Diffan who are pro 4E, to Wooly who is....not a fan is how I will word that. There is much talk about what all this brings for the future of D&D and RPG's in general, boy people sure do love to speculate huh. Anyway, without further ado:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/299545-ampersand-2011-releases-officially-gutted.html
Cheers,
Gambit
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 18:17:19
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| I think 3 books in one year is good for one's budget but bad for one's hobby. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 18:27:56
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I'm not a fan of 4E, that's true.
But with this, there simply isn't enough info. I don't think there's enough info to do more than speculate, and there's really not all that much info for that.
Maybe more stuff is planned, but not announced -- after all, it is only January. Maybe they're planning on going more digital. Maybe they're cutting production to prepare for an official 4.5 or even 5E release. It could be all or none of those things.
Until I have more info, all I can offer is those possibilities, and I want to emphasize that that's all they are. I'm not saying any of those things willl happen, only that it is not outside the realm of possibility.
But either way, I'm not affected. I won't touch 4E material, so less of it coming out doesn't affect me. I won't do the DDI while it remains all-or-nothing, so that doesn't affect me. I don't care about the minis, and I'm not paying any attention to any of the other stuff WotC is putting out, so it's all irrelevant for me.
Until we have more information, there's little for me to say on this one. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 18:30:08
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I will add one thing, though: some of my fellow 4E detractors may perceive this as the death knell of 4E. I don't think we have enough info to assume that.
And either way, I don't want to see people coming in just to bash 4E. Speculate on what's going on all you want, just don't pointlessly bash 4E. We've had enough of the edition wars. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 Jan 2011 18:30:24 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 18:36:24
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5e announcement GENCON 2011 or 2012... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 13 Jan 2011 18:37:19 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 18:44:29
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| Like Wooly said, anything regarding this is simply speculation and hearsay until something official from wizards is released. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 18:47:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
...there simply isn't enough info. I don't think there's enough info to do more than speculate, and there's really not all that much info for that.
Maybe more stuff is planned, but not announced -- after all, it is only January...
Agreed, I'm no fan of 4ED: I played through the edition with not the same fun as I had with other editions, but I hope a brilliant future for the D&D brand. I do owe a lot to this game. |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 19:01:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I will add one thing, though: some of my fellow 4E detractors may perceive this as the death knell of 4E. I don't think we have enough info to assume that.
And either way, I don't want to see people coming in just to bash 4E. Speculate on what's going on all you want, just don't pointlessly bash 4E. We've had enough of the edition wars.
Agreed Wooly, thats why I tried to be as neutral as possible in my original post. We're still attempting to sweep away the cinders and ashes of previous scrolls that devolved into flames, and it was not my intention to start that fire back up. |
Edited by - Gambit on 13 Jan 2011 19:40:38 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 19:02:33
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| What stage has 4E publishing got to? Is it in the 'people waiting for deferred essential material' phase or the 'makeweight rules for rules' sake diminishing spiral' phase? |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 19:16:49
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Lets not forgot that DDXP is coming up at the end of the month, so there'll be more info about the direction WoTC are taking. Now, if the only announcements are in diversifying the types of products they put out even more (more board games, cards etc), then we can really start asking what it means for 4th Ed.
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 19:22:22
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It's interesting that they're doing away with the plastic miniatures lines (except for "special" sets, whatever that means). Wasn't a gigantic point of 4E to bring things back to grids and minis?
Frankly, I've never had much patience or interest in sitting down for hours and painting my own lead miniatures. Prepainted plastic ones were nifty. Monster and character "tokens" are awful. The only reasons we've ever used "tokens" were when we had a surprise gaming guest who didn't like any of the minis we have on hand, and more often than not a stack of nickels worked in a pinch.
Then again, I've collected maybe 60 miniatures total over the past 30+ years. They're fun and all, but most of the time we tend to roleplay without them at all. Perhaps others just buy really cool ones and they're not a big mass market selling item after all.
Anyway, even after saying all of that, it still seems rather unusual that they're dropping planned 4E gaming books. Either they have something big and new that they're diverting to before the next wave of Cons, or 4E just isn't selling as well as they'd hoped, or perhaps both. I really can't imagine that they'd funnel more energy into DDI when they could make a book to sell. Something's not quite adding up.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 19:45:30
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| As much as I was and continue to be a vocal critic of 4E, I can't really relish any news (and of course, this is a preliminary report, and could change) that seems THIS dire. I have hope for the future of the brand; then again, could it turn out that the best that could happen to D&D would be for Hasbro sell it to a smaller, more RPG-centric producer? Time will tell. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 20:41:41
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Interesting, but the only 'for sure' thing we can surmise is a shift in direction. As to what that means, I am sure time will tell.
I'm not here for D&D, I'm here for the Forgotten Realms.
I do not need rules or a company to continue to enjoy it... but I suppose I need some sort of official support in order to enjoy future products with that branding. I doubt "the Realms are dead", and beyond that, I care very little.
If I were to speculate at all, I would think at the very least the Realms will be a novel-only IP for Hasbro, with the setting licensed-out to RPG companies; I assume the novels are still profitable. Depending on how that is handled (and who it's licensed to), that could be great news... or a terrible tragedy.
The words "be careful what you wish for" are coming to mind. Definitely a 'Monkey's Paw' scenario. 
Hopefully this will just be a shift in their paradigm - Matt James or Erik DeBie (IIRC) said something about the new FR product (Neverwinter) they worked-on being 'something very new and different', and this could be the first in a line of products that are taking this new path. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 21:06:26
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Speculation on my part, but I think WotC will be dropping the Forgotten Realms name and using the name Neverwinter for the setting.
RA's new books have Neverwinter in the title, a new guide called Neverwinter is on the way, a computer/mmo called Neverwinter is on the way. Wizards is slowly phasing out the Forgotten Realms logo on the novels.
I could be wrong, yet it wouldn't surprize me. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 21:12:03
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would not suprise me either Brimstone, the last wotc book I plan on getting is the neverwinter book, and this does not include any FR novels.
that said, I agree there is not enough info, and those books might of had a name change or something else.
I assume in the columns that are aledgedly coming out from wotc will address this.
that said, now to bash the realms 4e
what suxs most about the realms in 4e, is the ammount of NDAs still in affect hahahahahahaha
what, did you think I was going to say something else?? been there and said that already, and then got over it.
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 22:44:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
A shift to boost DDi subscribers could be a good thing for 4e. But at the cost of no hardcover books? Ouch!
It is my opinion that they could boost subscribers by getting rid of the all-or-nothing approach to the DDI. I know I'm not the only one who wants to buy individual articles, and not the whole shebang -- as long as it's all-or-nothing, they're not getting any money from me. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 22:54:22
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| Agreed. I also favor choice. But if they made the peripherals -character builder, monster builder AND virtual table- better DDi would in itself be an atractive choice. Culling the number of hardcovers is the wrong strategy, IMO. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 23:03:32
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| If the Realms is being licensed or sold off, please, give it back to Ed...who will proceed to work with Paizo ;) (or just sell the license/brand to Paizo! Oh the wonders the Realms will be in their hands!) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 23:35:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
If the Realms is being licensed or sold off, please, give it back to Ed...who will proceed to work with Paizo ;) (or just sell the license/brand to Paizo! Oh the wonders the Realms will be in their hands!)
While I do think Paizo could do wonderful things with the Realms, I've not seen any indication that WotC plans to let go of that IP. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 23:53:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
If the Realms is being licensed or sold off, please, give it back to Ed...who will proceed to work with Paizo ;) (or just sell the license/brand to Paizo! Oh the wonders the Realms will be in their hands!)
Careful what you wish for, I remember thinking it would be cool if the realms were owned by a larger company who could invest more into it...... |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 23:59:29
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I worry more about Hasbro turning DnD into a kiddie game for the whole family..... of all ages.
becuase let me tell you thats what I foresee....
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 23:59:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
If the Realms is being licensed or sold off, please, give it back to Ed...who will proceed to work with Paizo ;) (or just sell the license/brand to Paizo! Oh the wonders the Realms will be in their hands!)
Curious...is Piazo publishing novels? Just wondering how they'd handle the novel side of things in the Realms. |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 00:12:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Curious...is Piazo publishing novels? Just wondering how they'd handle the novel side of things in the Realms.
They do. They've published novels by Dave Gross and Elaine Cunningham so far and have others forthcoming from Howard Andrew Jones and Robin D. Laws. They actually publish a lot of fiction in various formats, including as serialized novellas in their Adventure Paths and online as part of a weekly fiction blog (where Ed's wrapping up a six-part novella next week). They also have a classic pulp reprint imprint, Planet Stories.
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
Edited by - Christopher_Rowe on 14 Jan 2011 00:14:44 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 00:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Speculation on my part, but I think WotC will be dropping the Forgotten Realms name and using the name Neverwinter for the setting.
RA's new books have Neverwinter in the title, a new guide called Neverwinter is on the way, a computer/mmo called Neverwinter is on the way. Wizards is slowly phasing out the Forgotten Realms logo on the novels.
I could be wrong, yet it wouldn't surprize me.
It could be, though I suspect this is merely a marketing strategy -- and to establish "Neverwinter" as a multi-media development for D&D/FORGOTTEN REALMS. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 00:17:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
If the Realms is being licensed or sold off, please, give it back to Ed...who will proceed to work with Paizo ;) (or just sell the license/brand to Paizo! Oh the wonders the Realms will be in their hands!)
Curious...is Piazo publishing novels? Just wondering how they'd handle the novel side of things in the Realms.
Well, there are the PATHFINDER novels now being published by Paizo. And they've got both new and established authors working for the new line -- including some Realms authors, like Dave Gross and Elaine Cunningham. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 14 Jan 2011 00:18:11 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 00:37:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Interesting, but the only 'for sure' thing we can surmise is a shift in direction. As to what that means, I am sure time will tell.
I'm not here for D&D, I'm here for the Forgotten Realms.
Snipped!....
Amen to that. it how I feel and just one of many various reasons I haven't grabbed up Gauntylgrym or any of the last handful of FR paperbacks to hit the shelves.
I don't want to see The Forgotten Realms get minimized and be relegated to a back seat to the D&D brand......especially in the novel world where the FR brand made wizbros novels go. If anything they should spin realms novels off under there own line, stick on a huge FR logo, with a tiny wotc emblem. Quit dragging FR brand down with wotc baggage and just keep growing the realms. It's not rocket science, Focus on your strength, the realms!
I'm as big a FR novel fan as you will ever find, and I find it extremely off putting that "my world" is being re-branded as dungeons and dragons novels. The realms existed before rules, editions and publishers... it will outlast them as well.....… if is allowed to.
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 14 Jan 2011 00:39:01 |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 08:17:52
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As much as I love Paizo, they have their own game and own world and I don't think they'd be interested in taking over the Forgotten Realms setting even if it was offered to them. As to 4e failing, I can't say for sure but it'd be my guess that they're not doing nearly bad enough for Hasbro to sell the IP off, and doesn't Hasbro hang on to every IP they get anyways and just shelve the product until it's profitable again?
Anyways, as huge of a Paizo fan as I am I still hope WotC does well enough that someday there will be a 5th edition that might bring the Realms back closer to the kind of place I want to play in, or at least that they'll release some interesting 4e lore outside of the DDI so I'll actually be able to see it and possibly develop a shred of interest in the current Realms. Worst thing that could happen is if Hasbro decides that either D&D or the Realms really isn't very profitable and shelves the brand. I don't think this is going to happen, though the re-branding of Forgotten Realms novels as just plain Dungeons and Dragons novels is unfortunate in my opinion. Also, the website for the Neverwinter CRPG doesn't mention the Forgotten Realms anywhere. It says Faerun once or twice and outside of that everything is about, "Become a part of the Dungeons and Dragons Universe" or "The #1 best-selling Neverwinter Nights series of PC RPGs returns with an epic Dungeons & Dragons storyline" nothing in there about the Forgotten Realms itself, as if you aren't supposed to think of Faerun as being part of the forgotten Realms, but just the D&D universe. It may be nitpicking but it's a little disheartening compared to the prominent Forgotten Realms logos on NWN 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2, and Icewind Dale 1 and 2. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 08:29:54
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| This is disheartening news, to be sure. for one don't want to see it shelved, or re-branded. base-line D&D has always been what Greyhawk was for. Forgotten Realms is/was it's own entire "universe" unto itself, and should continue to be. I'd much rather see Paizo take it over and it's not outside the realm(s) of possibility- after all, they DID have the publishing rights to both Dungeon AND Dragon for a short time before the magazines stopped being published. And to be honest, I loved what was done with the magazines while they had them. I'd be most interested to see what they could do with the Realms in their hands. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 10:11:36
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Paizo taking over the IP is something I think we'd all like to see, the Golarion suppliments are fantastic and dripping with all kinds of juicy lore that FR fans love. However James Jacobs and Co. have said on numerous occasions that they aren't interested in working with any licenced material ever again, after the debacle they went through with Dungeon and Dragon. Nor do I think Paizo would be interested in buying the FR IP even is Hasbro was willing to sell, which is highly doubtable. I think Paizo is pretty happy with what they've got going on right now.
One interesting theory, regarding D&D, not specifically FR, is that they may take D&D and rebrand it as a collectible card/board game RPG. People can pirate books, they cant pirate the new Ravenloft board game. Who knows what the future holds for our hobby. |
Edited by - Gambit on 14 Jan 2011 10:12:33 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 10:55:38
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As a Pro 4E guy I'm actually happy about this decision. For one, I think their release schedule was just going way too fast. I mean, 3 player's handbooks in 2 1/2 years is just crazy. I know they want to put as many options on the table as possible in the fastest time, but saturating the market is what caused all the troubles for 3e/v3.5.
A lesser production line means a longer life span IMO. I don't think this is any sort of Death Knell for D&D or FR for that matter. I also believe that Hasbro has lots of $$ riding on D&D so they'll do whatever it takes to keep the game going for people to buy.
As for them getting rid of the Miniatures line, it's sad because they're fun to use but I happily use Monster Tokens as 1.) They're numbered and have a flip "bloodied" side, and 2.) They super cheap and I can reacreate more. Throwing 10 skeletons at my players using Mini's really clutters the map and even expendable skeleton minis aren't cheap.
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Edited by - Diffan on 14 Jan 2011 13:31:50 |
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Topic |
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The future of 4E
