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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 13:08:24
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The avarage level of a realms person made me think of something else.
To get a level you need to get XP. Mostly you get XP for defeating oponments, but the higher you get the less oponments there are which are in a range that gives you XP. Furthermore casters for example loose xp for reasearching spells and stuff.
So based on this what do you think is the highest plausible level possible in the Forgotten Realms. Would casters like Telamont, Larloch, Ioulaum etc. even have been able to get that high when they would have to really level up like player characters have to?
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Kanya Skulls
Acolyte
17 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 13:20:54
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| Why not? They didn't just sit in their castles and do nothing. They did fight powerful enemies and now they're plotting constantly. For my it's enough to level up. Besides, guch charakters aren't supposed to level up like the PC, so I don't anderstand the point of this question. |
Disclaimer: I spewed all of this out off the top of my head and make no claim whatsoever that any of it is accurate or even correct. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 13:49:33
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| There are other ways to gain xp. Quest xp for example, and not all quests contain fighting theoretically. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 15:15:12
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Right. Researching and creating new spells for example, something many epic-level casters are constantly doing.
As for non-casters, well many of them won't get eternal life, so anything above level 20-25 would be extremely rare I think. Still, they could get XP for participating in large scaled battles (war officer i.e) or training units.
Rogues could gain XP for stealing from mage-towers and the like, or making rush-runs of Undermountain without getting detected (if its even possible).
In the end, it would be a terrible mistake to think that fighting/violence is the only way to become better at anything. I give more XP for battles that my PCs cunningly avoided than for those fought. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 17:06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
So based on this what do you think is the highest plausible level possible in the Forgotten Realms. Would casters like Telamont, Larloch, Ioulaum etc. even have been able to get that high when they would have to really level up like player characters have to?
It depends on the ruleset, and even then, what source you're using. In 2E rules, for example, the PHB had nothing listed past level 20... But there were a couple of Realms books that provided tables for going up to 30th or 40th level. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Jan 2011 17:14:54 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 17:52:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It depends on the ruleset, and even then, what source you're using. In 2E rules, for example, the PHB had nothing listed past level 20... But there were a couple of Realms books that provided tables for going up to 30th or 40th level.
Didn't the original Bloodstone modules have 100th level pregens included at some point or am I misremembering? Haven't looked at those in decades.
In most rules sets it seems like diminishing returns kicks in pretty hard at a certain point, and of course there are always issues of "sweet spots" and complication of play. Witness the enforced retirements at 30th level in core 4E and at 12th level in Pathfinder Society organized play.
Cheers,
Christopher
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 18:08:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
Didn't the original Bloodstone modules have 100th level pregens included at some point or am I misremembering? Haven't looked at those in decades.
I've heard that, but I've no familiarity with those modules. Weren't they 1E? |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 18:35:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've heard that, but I've no familiarity with those modules. Weren't they 1E?
I'm pretty sure they predate the Gray Box so must have been, yeah.
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 18:43:48
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All but the last were 1e, IIRC (not at home to check).
Also, the part about lev. 100 char. sounds about right (once again, can't check ATM).
Not sure if those pregen characters should even be considered 'FR canon', since hey are technically 'theoretical PCs'. That's kinda a gray area.
In 1e, I remember reading once that Elric of Melnibonea from the 1eDD is the highest official, mortal NPC. Sorry - can't check that factoid either.
And there are always extra-planer threats for high-levs to challenge, like the Sojourner (not him in particular, but in an infinite universe there should be an infinite number of 'guys like him'). FR characters aren't stuck in Realmspace, and in the case of truly uber characters, they can always aspire to godhood (and fight deities along the way).
What was it a wise man once said? "There is ALWAYS a bigger fish."
Remember, on Krypton even Superman is just a normal guy.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2011 18:44:18 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 19:47:27
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Nice question. Couple of factoids checked. H4-Throne of Bloodstone, a 1E module (the last in the Bloodstone series, and the first to have the Forgotten Realms Logo on the cover) did contain some pregenerated 100th-level characters: Perseus, Circe, Hermes, Artemis.
@Markustay - I never had the pleasure of owning a vintage Legends and Lore, but *gasp* I once managed to have a look at one. Being a Moorcock fan, I looked up Elric, of course. Although I do not remember the exact levels, they were "within normal mortal parameters", as they say (I think he was listed as a fighter / magic-user, and - I could be wrong - 10th level as a fighter, and 19th level as a magic-user; in any event, no higher than 20 or thereabouts).
Depending on what system you're using - OD&D's max level for mortals is 36; the Immortals' levels (also a viable PC class  also went up to 36). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 21:32:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
@Markustay - I never had the pleasure of owning a vintage Legends and Lore, but *gasp* I once managed to have a look at one. Being a Moorcock fan, I looked up Elric, of course. Although I do not remember the exact levels, they were "within normal mortal parameters", as they say (I think he was listed as a fighter / magic-user, and - I could be wrong - 10th level as a fighter, and 19th level as a magic-user; in any event, no higher than 20 or thereabouts).
Slight correction: Legends & Lore was a reprint of the second release of Deities & Demigods; the first release of the DDG is the one that had Elric and Cthulhu in it. 
I used to have that one, too, and it was in really good shape...  |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 22:10:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Slight correction: Legends & Lore was a reprint of the second release of Deities & Demigods; the first release of the DDG is the one that had Elric and Cthulhu in it.
Awright awright awright... How about giving me some credit for remembering Elric's approximate levels? I'm an old man, you know . |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 22:48:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
What was it a wise man once said? "There is ALWAYS a bigger fish."
Yep but a balor for example who is really high on the food chain won't give any XP to for example a 30th level character. And even if you find some oponments that give you XP you will need a lot of them to get another level.
But there are some interesting answers so far. |
Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 24 Jan 2011 22:49:02 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2011 : 22:52:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Slight correction: Legends & Lore was a reprint of the second release of Deities & Demigods; the first release of the DDG is the one that had Elric and Cthulhu in it.
Awright awright awright... How about giving me some credit for remembering Elric's approximate levels? I'm an old man, you know .
No worries. I just remember that info because I used to have the book, and because I'd read somewhere about that bit of copyright infringement on TSR's part. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Jan 2011 22:52:30 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 00:30:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
All but the last were 1e, IIRC (not at home to check).
I think that's about right. The last, as I recall, began to incorporate some of the pre-release 2e material... if I'm not mistaken. Though it has been quite a while since I've read those books. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2011 : 00:31:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
@Markustay - I never had the pleasure of owning a vintage Legends and Lore, but *gasp* I once managed to have a look at one. Being a Moorcock fan, I looked up Elric, of course. Although I do not remember the exact levels, they were "within normal mortal parameters", as they say (I think he was listed as a fighter / magic-user, and - I could be wrong - 10th level as a fighter, and 19th level as a magic-user; in any event, no higher than 20 or thereabouts).
Slight correction: Legends & Lore was a reprint of the second release of Deities & Demigods; the first release of the DDG is the one that had Elric and Cthulhu in it.
It also included new and updated info, as I recall. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Highest level possible
