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Callador
Acolyte
Norway
3 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 08:38:06
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I got a question regarding bag of holding (girdle of many pouches and other similar items, as well as the spell deeppockets).
I play ad&d 2ed, not sure if the items and spell exist/are the same in other versions, but my question is:
Do the item that goes into said item have to fit into the opening or are they magically sucked into the item?
If I have a bag of holding that is one foot by one foot, can I then put a rock at is two feet by two feet inside it (as long as it fit inside the volume of the extra dimensional pocket of the backpack)?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 09:33:37
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I'm not sure if this detail is ever explained in the item descriptions. Extradimensional containers (like a bag of holding) might be described a bit better in one of the novels, though I can't recall any specific references.
My group has always assumed that whatever goes in or out of the container has to fit through the opening (spells like reduce or item can shrink things going in, but that could be a bad idea when you think about it). Placing something like a sharp pointy sword into a bag made of cloth/leather will rupture it and wreck the dweomer ("spilling" the contents everywhere), so another assumption we make is that the inner surface of the container sort of has coterminous "contact" with all the surfaces of all the contents (think of the inside surface as being somewhat like a stretched rubber sheet, easily torn and punctured by sharp objects).
Some types of extradimensional containers are enchanted so that you merely visualize or name the desired item and always find it easily/instantly accessible ("on top" of everything else) ... my treatment for those extradimensional containers *without* such an enchantment (that is, most of them) is to force the player to spend time feeling/searching around or to simply dump the entire contents on the ground to sort out what he wants. It's like your girlfriend's purse (multiplied a hundredfold); the more random loose junk gets constantly stuffed into it the harder it gets to find anything in particular, especially when you need to find it in a hurry. You'll have to use DM's discretion when deciding what happens when players dump fragile glass potion/poison/acid bottles, spellbooks and scroll tubes, big metal chunks of weaponry and armour, piles of coin, rope, rations, and random adventuring gear into the same bag.
Extradimensional containers usually have maximum capacity limits for weight and size/volume - you'll encounter some (non-canon) lore which suggests these bags can rupture/explode when they're overfilled; the logic being that if filled with maximum volume of water they'd exceed their maximum weight limit. I never liked that idea - my treatment is that once your bag of holding is "full" (either way) then you just can't put anything else inside, it's simply impossible (like trying to put something into a mundane bag that's already full).
An interesting (and often overlooked) consequence is that your bag of holding can probably hold many, many gallons of liquid. If it's a "common leather purse/satchel" then it's probably not hermetically sealed and will fill up with water (and soak everything stored inside) the first time its owner gets dunked into a lake (though perhaps at a slow rate). Conversely, it's not likely to be sealed like a waterskin, so liquid will drip and trickle out the same as from any other leather bag.
Extradimensional devices are not compatible with other dimensional magics. Strictly speaking, the game rules (at least in older editions) state that when you place one such item within another you open a multidimensional rift/tear in space which destroys one or both items, ejects all their contents throughout the planes, and makes a little explosion that damages everything nearby. Again, I never liked these overkill rules at all - my treatment is that an extradimensional item placed inside another extradimensional space simply does not function until it is removed. A bag of holding inside an extradimensional space would simply be remain "sealed" or, more likely, function just like any "normal" bag with the same (apparent) capacity - again, DM's discretion (or random rolls) might be required to determine which of the contents are and are not available in this situation. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 31 Dec 2010 10:02:15 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 09:58:10
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| To answer the question, YES, the item MUST fit through the opening in any bag of holding or similar item- including spells that create such effects. If it's too big to fit through the opening of a bag, it will not go in. Items are not "sucked in", they must be placed inside the bag, just like any normal bag. As Arik said, sharp objects run the risk of tearing it- SHEATH your swords before putting them in, folks!! (And yes, I'm well aware of how that sounded, LOL!!!) |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2010 : 10:04:21
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| Ah, well, I figured I'd answer all of the usual "Thank you for purchasing your new Bag of Holding" questions all at once, rather than one at a time, lol. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12082 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 16:52:02
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>>An interesting (and often overlooked) consequence is that your bag of holding can probably hold >>many, many gallons of liquid. If it's a "common leather purse/satchel" then it's probably not >>hermetically sealed and will fill up with water (and soak everything stored inside) the first time >>its owner gets dunked into a lake (though perhaps at a slow rate). Conversely, it's not likely to >>be sealed like a waterskin, so liquid will drip and trickle out the same as from any other leather >>bag.
Lol, correct, I never thought of that. After the first time that would happen, I bet mages would start making access to the extradimensional space only happen when the flap is opened or somesuch.
One of the classic things I've seen my players do is get a bag of holding, or quiver, or portable hole, or whatever. Then, they decide to camp for a bit in a secure area, so they open a rope trick and go in. Extradimensional space enters extradimensional space and kaboom.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 19:35:10
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You could have the bag of holding simply function as a normal (nonmagical) bag, not having any extradimensional capacity at all unless a magical keyword or token (or spell) is used to activate it; anything stored in the extradimensional part (including anything too large to fit into a normal bag) would simply be inaccessible.
As I said above, I don't personally like the Gygax-kaboom rules. My take is that extradimensional spaces simply cannot be accessed from inside other extradimensional places. They might not function on other planes, either. My players wouldn't kaboom inside a rope trick, but they might not be able to access their potions, supplies, and spellbooks. It seems ridiculous (to me) that a 3rd level wizard could kaboom his party by casting deeppockets and rope trick together. Do these containers instantly kaboom when they come in contact with blink, dimension door, plane shift, passwall, phase door, teleport, gate, and portals, or you when visit Elminster's tower or use a Rod of Security? Woe to the player who inadvertently places extradimensional loot (like a Necklace of Missiles) inside such a container ... |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Jan 2011 19:36:50 |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2011 : 23:07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Callador
I got a question regarding bag of holding (girdle of many pouches and other similar items, as well as the spell deeppockets).
I play ad&d 2ed, not sure if the items and spell exist/are the same in other versions, but my question is:
Do the item that goes into said item have to fit into the opening or are they magically sucked into the item?
If I have a bag of holding that is one foot by one foot, can I then put a rock at is two feet by two feet inside it (as long as it fit inside the volume of the extra dimensional pocket of the backpack)?
welcome to the keep callador. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 01:18:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Callador
Do the item that goes into said item have to fit into the opening or are they magically sucked into the item?
The original text of the bag of holding, from the original D&D boxed set, was explicit you could put a single object 10 feet × 5 feet × 3 feet into a bag of holding. The Holmes, Moldvay, and Mentzer Basic Sets and the D&D Rules Cyclopedia also explicitly allow a single object of 10'×5'×3' to be put in the bag of holding, which was also the total volume of the bag.
The descriptions of the bag of holding in the AD&D DMG, AD&D 2nd Edition DMG, D&D 3rd Edition DMG, D&D 3.5 DMG, D&D 4th Edition PHB, and Pathfinder Core Rulebook all say nothing about having to fit through the opening normally. According to a search I just performed, neither does any Sage Advice column through Dragon #250.
So, since you definitely could put something bigger than the bag's normal mouth in the originally published bag of holding and in four later iterations of D&D, and no other version of D&D has ever contradicted this, I would say yes, you can put a "too big to fit through the opening" item into a bag of holding or item operating under the same rules, as long as it's small enough to be contained in the extradimensional space. |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 01:54:48
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| Never turn a bag of holding inside out. Just don't people. |
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Bag of holding
