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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 06:42:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Yes, I thought he went WAAAY too far over the line between the "clownish" side and the darker, insane aspect of the character. To be blunt, the Joker has ALWAYS had something of a twisted sense of humor, even at his most sadistic. In the comics and earlier movies and even in the cartoons, he always somehow manages to make you laugh at his schemes and crimes, even the really sick and cruel ones. I just didn't get that from Ledger. I didn't think there was anything "funny" about him at all. That pretty much ruined the movie for me. At least Nicholson was able to keep that balance. When he gave that line" Why so serious?". I wanted to slap him and go- "Yeah, why are YOU so damn serious?!" I know that Joker is a sadistic nut-job, but he should at LEAST have style. That's always been part of his appeal. Case in point, a crossover issue with Marvel starring Batman and Spider-Man, where he escaped from Arkham and then got Carnage out of Ravencroft. They tried to work together to take down each other's respective enemies, but he eventually turned on Carnage, because he got fed up with Carnage's lack of panache. As he said in that ish, "Anyone can butcher, but it takes a real master to kill with STYLE!" That line to mee sums him up perfectly. Ledger did NOT. (IMNSHO.)
Bear in mind, that both Nolan and Ledger were drawing inspiration from some of the "darker" Joker tales of the Batverse. Stuff like The Killing Joke and Lovers and Madmen for example [which provides a truly frightening insight into the Joker's psyche--I don't think I'll ever look at a full moon in the same way again].
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 06:45:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
...Are you sure you watched the same movie? I found Ledger's Joker to be hilarious during certain parts, horrifing during others, and stylish all the way through.
Freakish? Yes! Funny? No! The original joker was both. That's why he's far more entertaining to watch. [By the way, have I mentioned I'm not a Batman fan? In fact, I wish Joker would finally bomb him to pieces! ] |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 06:49:50
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| I'm not a Batman fan myself, but I honestly found Ledger's Joker to be funny. The magic trick with the pencil? Cracks me up every time. His refuge in audacity attitude? "You think you can steal from us and just walk away?" "...Yeah." Hilarious. Disguising himself as a nurse? Brilliant. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 06:58:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Disguising himself as a nurse? Brilliant.
Mystique often does that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 07:49:31
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| When she does it, it's fetish fuel. When the Joker does it? It's absolutely hilarious. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 02:34:34
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I didn't think it was really funny. In fact, I didn't see anything funny about him at all. And I'm fairly familiar with those darker tales, but the thing is that they were still tempered with hints of his twisted and cruel humor. (I mean, beating Robin within an inch of his life with a baseball bat seems sort of poetic, if you think about it- look at Jason Todd's age.... Being blown sky-high was just the icing on the cake.) CoA, maybe your idea of funny is different from mine, but I thought his self-mutilation was simply too "out-there", and his dead-pan delivery of his "jokes" (if one could even call them that) was too stiff and cold- NOT the Joker I've known all my life! Nicholson's Joker delivered most of his more disturbing lines with a giggle and/or a smile, showing that even if no one else got the joke, HE certainly did!! And his sense of style was more outlandish- as Joker SHOULD be.
And to go back to the topic- dennis, The point is that Strange is NOT the usual "handsome" man. Perhaps in an urbane sort of way, but not the dreamboat/heartthrob/boitoy way of most actors today. Rickman is certainly good looking enough to fill the role, and has the acting chops to do it. One of the things I like about him is that he is a classically trained actor, with a wide range of parts under his belt,many of which most people have forgotten about. He's not superstar "action hero" actor, but neither are some of the best (and IMHO, most memorable) actors out there. Robert Downey Jr was handsome enough to play Stark, but he is also a serious actor, too. I don't see many of the current crop of "rising stars" being in that caliber. I would rather see an older actor with a bit of CG touch-up play the part, than someone whose only claim to an acting career is as an emo vampire, werewolf or what-have-you. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 03:53:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I didn't think it was really funny. In fact, I didn't see anything funny about him at all. And I'm fairly familiar with those darker tales, but the thing is that they were still tempered with hints of his twisted and cruel humor. (I mean, beating Robin within an inch of his life with a baseball bat seems sort of poetic, if you think about it- look at Jason Todd's age.... Being blown sky-high was just the icing on the cake.) CoA, maybe your idea of funny is different from mine, but I thought his self-mutilation was simply too "out-there", and his dead-pan delivery of his "jokes" (if one could even call them that) was too stiff and cold- NOT the Joker I've known all my life! Nicholson's Joker delivered most of his more disturbing lines with a giggle and/or a smile, showing that even if no one else got the joke, HE certainly did!! And his sense of style was more outlandish- as Joker SHOULD be.
And to go back to the topic- dennis, The point is that Strange is NOT the usual "handsome" man. Perhaps in an urbane sort of way, but not the dreamboat/heartthrob/boitoy way of most actors today. Rickman is certainly good looking enough to fill the role, and has the acting chops to do it. One of the things I like about him is that he is a classically trained actor, with a wide range of parts under his belt,many of which most people have forgotten about. He's not superstar "action hero" actor, but neither are some of the best (and IMHO, most memorable) actors out there. Robert Downey Jr was handsome enough to play Stark, but he is also a serious actor, too. I don't see many of the current crop of "rising stars" being in that caliber. I would rather see an older actor with a bit of CG touch-up play the part, than someone whose only claim to an acting career is as an emo vampire, werewolf or what-have-you.
By emo vampire I suppose you mean Robert Pattinson? In fairness to him, he did a fine job in Remember Me and Little Ashes, where he played a gay painter.
Anyway, back on topic. We do have different notions on what handsome is. Ricksman certainly doesn't qualify that for me, neither does Downey Jr. The actor doesn't have to match the atypical handsomeness of Dr. Strange. Heh, I hardly call Wolverine handsome, yet look who's playing the role---Hugh Jackman: one of Forbes' sexiest men alive. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 04:50:11
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Well, I'll chalk it up to different senses of humor. I love deadpan delivery in my comedy and I think Ledger's Joker pulled that off beautifully. But a lot of it came from the fact that Ledger studied people who were actually mentally disturbed; his body language, his mannerisms all spoke of someone who was actually out of his mind. He was much more believable.
As a point it wasn't stated as a fact that he self-mutilated. He had a glasgow grin, and offered two conflicting explanations for it; a throw back to the Joker in the comics "remembering it one way, sometimes another".
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"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 04:55:16
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Hugh Jackman is a perfect example. He's considered the "sexiest man alive" (or WAS before Ryan Reynolds took over the title- in People, no less!) not for being "generically handsome" but for his presence and rough good looks (And yes, he IS good-looking. And he can SING!!). To me, Robert Pattinson doesn't even make the cut of top hundred. He's "pretty", if you like that sort of thing, but too androgenous. (Yes, I was referring to him, and I've not seen either of those movies, thankfully. I consider his acting sub-par, at best. Playing a gay painter somehow doesn't seem like much of a stretch, no offense meant to Pattinson himself.)
The trend lately seems to be for "pretty-boys", rather than guys who have a more real-life appeal. I like men who are a bit flawed in some way, or at least are not so perfectly boyish-cute that they end up looking too effeminate or whatever. Although I do sometimes make exception for one with a male-model vibe. (Like Reynoldds. All I can say is DAMN!!! He's hawt.) Then again, I've mentioned before that I think Patrick Stewart is sorta shmexy, so take that as you will. My tastes in male appearance is fairly wide-ranging, not limited to one specific sub-group or type. I'd go anywhere from Leo De'Caprio to Vin Diesel, Johnny Depp, Orlando Bloom, Vigo Mortenson, Keifer Southerland, Chris O'Donnel, Martin Sheen (Charlie's cute, but SUCH a drama queen, lol!), James Marsters, or even Marc Harmon (NCIS) or Sean Connery. Male shmex-appeal is more broad than women's, for the most part.
I just want them to pick someone who can actually ACT, not just look pretty while intoning a bunch of nonsense words and waving his hands around pretending to cast spells. Most of the guys I consider shmexy can do both. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2011 : 08:43:41
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Who's the best villain to be featured in this film? I think Dormamu already had enough exposure in the animated movie. Nightmare, perhaps? Or a new one---that which has never been used in comics yet? I think I'd favor the latter. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2011 : 09:01:12
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| I'll go with Mordo. Nightmare was better as a Hulk villain. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2011 : 09:07:19
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But in the movie, Strange easily defeated him. And Mordo only had a chance against the Ancient One because he was already too weak when Mordo found him.
I'd love it if for once Strange would face a legion of villains. Superhero movies tend to be a one-on-one battle: Superman/Lex; Spidey/Octopus; Batman/Joker; Daredevil/Kingpin. Why not make it more difficult for the hero by fielding a score of villains? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2011 : 09:34:01
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| Because when you put two many villains in a movie, you get Spider Man 3. And no one wants that. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2011 : 09:48:04
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Depends on the villains.
With a little research [for I don't read the comics] I found out that other than Dormamu and the Devourer, most of Strange's enemies are mildly to not at all impressive. That's why I'd rather see new ones. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2011 : 15:56:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
But in the movie, Strange easily defeated him. And Mordo only had a chance against the Ancient One because he was already too weak when Mordo found him.
Which is why I suggested the Stan Lee/Steve Ditko collaboration from the 60's Strange Tales. In those early days, Mordo was actually much more proficient with the "Black Magic" [as it was called then], and Strange regularly required assistance from others, like the Ancient One, to foil Mordo's plans. That was, until Strange gained greater power and wisdom under the tutelage of his Master.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 01:20:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
But in the movie, Strange easily defeated him. And Mordo only had a chance against the Ancient One because he was already too weak when Mordo found him.
Which is why I suggested the Stan Lee/Steve Ditko collaboration from the 60's Strange Tales. In those early days, Mordo was actually much more proficient with the "Black Magic" [as it was called then], and Strange regularly required assistance from others, like the Ancient One, to foil Mordo's plans. That was, until Strange gained greater power and wisdom under the tutelage of his Master.
That's kinda interesting. Perhaps Mordo could lead the Legion of Villains I previously noted. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 03:28:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
But in the movie, Strange easily defeated him. And Mordo only had a chance against the Ancient One because he was already too weak when Mordo found him.
Which is why I suggested the Stan Lee/Steve Ditko collaboration from the 60's Strange Tales. In those early days, Mordo was actually much more proficient with the "Black Magic" [as it was called then], and Strange regularly required assistance from others, like the Ancient One, to foil Mordo's plans. That was, until Strange gained greater power and wisdom under the tutelage of his Master.
That's kinda interesting. Perhaps Mordo could lead the Legion of Villains I previously noted.
I'd prefer to see Mordo as an agent of Dormammu, much like his earliest appearances in the comics. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 03:53:26
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Well, Mordo could still lead the Legion on behalf of Dormamu. Dormamu can function like Larloch, scheming and acting behind the scenes. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 04:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Dormammu is too "big" a villain for a first Strange flick. I'd save him for a possible sequel.
They could follow the same example of how the Mandarin has been used for the Iron Man films. The Mandarin isn't directly referenced, but it's hinted at by the concept of the "Ten Rings" organisation.
Dormammu could simply be the BBEG far in the background, manipulating the more regular villains, like Mordo, into destroying Strange. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 06:10:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ten Rings? I don't recall that from the Iron Man movies. Where was that? (I did however, love the Easter eggs of Cap's shield and Thor's hammer in IM2!)
The Afghan terrorist group which held Stark prisoner was known as the Ten Rings. If you recall, Raza, who was leader of the Ten Rings, wore a single red ring that he stroked with his other hand during some scenes. Favreau has said that this was the first hint of the Mandarin being behind most everything happening to Iron Man in the films.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 29 Mar 2011 06:13:12 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 06:42:06
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| Ooh! I never caught that! Thanks so much, I may have to go watch that again now. Was there anything about it in IM2? Ivan didn't seem to have any connection to that, and niether did Hammer. (Was he connected to Weasel by any chance? Not really familiar with all of the Iron-Man lore, as he's not one of my favorite Marvel heroes. I prefer Spidey and X-folks, FF, New Avengers, and Deadpool.) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 07:35:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ooh! I never caught that! Thanks so much, I may have to go watch that again now. Was there anything about it in IM2? Ivan didn't seem to have any connection to that, and niether did Hammer. (Was he connected to Weasel by any chance? Not really familiar with all of the Iron-Man lore, as he's not one of my favorite Marvel heroes. I prefer Spidey and X-folks, FF, New Avengers, and Deadpool.)
There wasn't much emphasis placed on the Mandarin for IM2. As I recall from interviews, Favreau wanted the second film to focus more on the "mundane" threat of corporate warfare -- as evidenced by Stark versus Hammer.
Supposedly, the Mandarin was to be the BBEG of IM3. However, now that Favreau is no longer directing the third film, it remains to be seen whether the new director, Shane Black, will continue with the Mandarin premise Favreau previously set up. Which would likely involve the Mandarin having tech-based ring powers, rather than the more traditional conception of mystical abilities, as portrayed in the comics. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 08:23:41
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I hope in this movie, some famous superheroes would do a cameo, like Iron Man, Spiderman, and Wolverine. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 08:34:14
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| Spider-Man would be the most likely option, given his frequent team-ups with Strange in the past. Wolverine could work too... as part of a "Secret Defenders"-type scenario. |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2011 : 08:39:10
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And vice versa, I think. Strange can do a cameo in the next Spidey movie. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2011 : 05:48:06
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I'm fine with whatever purpose his cameo is for, so long as it makes sense and impacts the story [a bit] significantly. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Films of Interest to Realms Fans . . .
