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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 02:26:50
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Atonement is the reason he gave up his title? That's sillier than having the Hulk crush his hands. Had I read the comics where that happened, I must have torn it to pieces. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 02:42:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
So the Hulk is 'part' of the reason he'd become too weak that he saw the need to pass the mantle of the Sorcerer Supreme to BV? That doesn't sound good to me...Of all the hundreds of Marvel characters, why that mad green-thing? It would have been better had it been Wanda. Or maybe Galactus.
Well, I should note that the Hulk, in this case, was entirely more enraged and powerful than he'd ever previously been before. He was solely focused on punishing those individuals of the Marvel Illuminati, who had shot him into space and, eventually, accidentally killed his wife on another planet. [Or so he thought.] Hulk brutalised Black Bolt, of the Inhumans, trashed Iron Man, and then sought Strange, crushing his hands in battle, before the Sorcerer Supreme was forced to draw on the dark magic to defeat the Hulk.
As for Strange versus Wanda... well, when the Scarlet Witch was suffering a nervous breakdown [and just prior to the "House of M" story-line], and with her powers rapidly growing wildly out of control, Strange admitted that he couldn't properly read her mind or fully protect himself against her increasingly unstable Hex power.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 02:47:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Atonement is the reason he gave up his title? That's sillier than having the Hulk crush his hands. Had I read the comics where that happened, I must have torn it to pieces.
Well, as I said, there were particulars of this event which makes it an entirely more complex affair than what you're suggesting here. Strange was, ultimately, trying to buy time for others to attempt to stop the Hulk from devastating New York during his rampage.
And while atonement was indeed part of the reason why Strange gave up the title, it was also partly due to the will of the Eye of Agamotto as well -- seeing Strange as now something of a risk, given his delving into dark magicks. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 03:16:53
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But he wouldn't have resorted to using dark magicks had the Hulk not crush his hands, right? For someone who could destroy planets to be debilitated by a mere rampaging green thing of madness sounds....well, silly. Had he suffered from short-term memory loss then, forgetting to cloak himself with protective enchantments before facing the Hulk?
Thanks, Sage, for that interesting bit about Wanda. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 03:36:34
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| Well, again, that's just a difference between writers. World War Hulk was some time ago, and I don't recall who was writing the Dr. Strange book then or now, but it is most likely a different writer.in fact, I don't even know if he had his own book at the time, or if he was simply being shown in other titles. I do know that he was not only a member of the Illuminati but the Defenders aw well at that time. So it's just a matter of having different powers depending on who is doing the writing. Marvel in general tries to keep characters' powers within continuity, but if a writer is not aware of what has gone before, discrepancies occur. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 03:44:41
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 Then I better hope whoever writes the script of this coming movie tries to adhere to the 'original.' And if it's the original writer who'll pen the script, I hope he'd be in the right 'frame of mind,' for even the creators themselves tend to be inconsistent with how they portray their characters. Feist comes to mind. I didn't like how he handled Pug in the Darkwar saga---to the point that I thought he must used a ghost writer. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 04:47:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
And Wanda's melt-down was very different situation. He was able to eventually contain her and tried to help her regain her sanity.
Yeah. But he had help from Professor X too, as I recall. He was telepathically keeping Wanda's mind from fracturing further.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
But he wouldn't have resorted to using dark magicks had the Hulk not crush his hands, right?
Not necessarily. During the "Siege of Darkness" story-line back in the mid 90's, and the subsequent two-years worth of Strange stories after that, Strange delved into some pretty questionable activities in his quest to re-create magic, and eventually reclaim his mantle of Sorcerer Supreme from Salome.
quote:
For someone who could destroy planets to be debilitated by a mere rampaging green thing of madness sounds....well, silly.
I think you're underestimating the power of the Hulk during this scenario. He had literally never been that powerful, nor angry. Add to that, the unexpectedness of the attack, and the fact that Strange had little time to properly prepare his response. Should he have had the time to plan, I imagine his actions against the Hulk would've proceeded very differently.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2011 : 21:44:19
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| Heh, I still could not believe a mere brute could severly harm a considerably puissant sorcerer. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 01:17:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Heh, I still could not believe a mere brute could severly harm a considerably puissant sorcerer.
Eh. Strange has also been wounded by a simple knife-wielding maniac, and in his own heavily protected Sanctum Sanctorum.
The point to bear in mind is, I suppose, that even the world's mightiest magician can be severely wounded by an unexpected physical attack. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2011 : 16:52:23
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| Point taken. =) |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 00:44:24
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| What's this?!---I'm hearing more news/rumors that Disney/Pixar is considering creating a CGI Doctor Strange movie. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 01:00:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
What's this?!---I'm hearing more news/rumors that Disney/Pixar is considering creating a CGI Doctor Strange movie.
I'd say this is speculation, at best. And I would assume that the Disney/Marvel production of a Doctor Strange film will want to take into account how audiences react to the well-ingrained CGI-aspects of the upcoming Green Lantern film. Because so far, the reactions have not been too encouraging. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 01:13:29
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| Hopefully they will take that into account. CGI movies are like a plague these days, (with the exception of Ice Age series and Despicable Me). Besides, they already made an animated film of Doctor Strange in 2007, and its success should have empowered them to make a live-action one. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 07:01:23
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| Now that you mention Avatar, hmmm, perhaps... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 07:13:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
But he wouldn't have resorted to using dark magicks had the Hulk not crush his hands, right? For someone who could destroy planets to be debilitated by a mere rampaging green thing of madness sounds....well, silly. Had he suffered from short-term memory loss then, forgetting to cloak himself with protective enchantments before facing the Hulk?
Thanks, Sage, for that interesting bit about Wanda.
The Hulk at the time wasn't a rampaging thing of madness. He was a calculating, cunning, thinking creature. One with Bruce Banner's(someone who is considerably more intelligent than Doc Strange) help.
Scene plays out as follows. Strange enters the Hulk's mind into a dreamscape area, as an astral projection. He tries to talk Hulk down, trying to get through to Bruce. Through past experience, he things Banner is trying to hold the Hulk back and would help stop him. Problem is, Banner is as mad as the Hulk is. Banner lets Strange thing he's being talked down, lets him think he's getting through. Strange considers Banner a friend and doesn't want to hurt him, see. Strange allows his astral form to solidify and starts to help Bruce up, taking his hands in his. Bruce transforms back into the Hulk before the stunned Strange can react, and crushes his hands.
Could Strange beat Hulk on any given day of the week under normal circumstances? Yes. But what people are forgetting is that the character's instinct isn't press the one hit kill button, it's to help his friend.
Of course, the fact that I'm a Hulk fan could mean I'm bais. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 07:44:14
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Ah, you fail to notice that I already conceded to Sage's and Alystra's point that "even the world's mightiest magician can be severely wounded by an unexpected physical attack."
Besides, I remember something similar happened to master magician, Pug. He was once caught in a mundane fishing net! Imagine that, just an ordinary net! And what's more, Pug was at the height of his power then, having mastered both the Greater and Lesser Paths of magic. And Feist's explanation about such "accident" was that Pug's magical sphere of protection was intended for sharp objects. Now I can't argue with the creator, can I? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 07:59:00
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| Well, yes, I did fail to notice that. Clicked the thread and saw your post, instinct was to reply to that. I've been having this debate on various forums ever since WWH came out. Though I like to think I gave more detail by highlighting Banner/Hulk's cunning as well as Stephen's desire to help rather than fight as the contributing factors to him being crippled. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 08:21:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I've recently started reading the Graphic Novel version of Feist's books, and am enjoying them immensely. Will definitely have to read the actual novels when I get the chance.
I highly recommend them, Alystra! Start with the first Riftwar quartet, which was originally a trilogy; the first book was expanded and became Magician: Apprentice, and Magician: Master. Here's a reading order which you may find helpful.
I understand you like elves. Well, Feist's elves won't disappoint you. They're powerful, but not haughty, save the taredhel, a sub-race who appeared much later---in the Demonwar duology. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 08:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Well, yes, I did fail to notice that. Clicked the thread and saw your post, instinct was to reply to that. I've been having this debate on various forums ever since WWH came out. Though I like to think I gave more detail by highlighting Banner/Hulk's cunning as well as Stephen's desire to help rather than fight as the contributing factors to him being crippled.
Such contributing factors are valid, indeed. It was my mistake, really, for my comment was not particularly "in context." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 08:36:10
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| Right. I'm in the middle of the GN version of Magician: Apprentice now. Pretty good read so far. Are the taredhel the "dark elves"? I'm into volume two of the GN, last thing I remember reading was where they had reached the king to warn him of the invasion, and he sent Pug and his master back with the army to his home- which had already been attacked. His friend was with the dwarf fighting their way out of the mines after he got the sword and armor. I might have gotten further, but that's the last part I recall. I've been reading it when the comps are full at the library.... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 08:54:50
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| No, the dark elves are called moredhel in elven tongue. The taredhel used to be 'common' elves, for lack of a better term. But during the Chaos Wars---that catastrophic time in the history of the Universe when the Valheru, mighty beings who rode and commanded dragons, fought against the gods---Ashen-Shugar, the Valheru who's now one with Tomas, freed all their slaves, including the elves. The taredhel fled their birth world and found refuge in several others through the rifts. What's strange and interesting about them is that unlike the common elves who have gigantic trees as their abodes, the taredhel build cities using rock and soil. They have the so-called geomancers who could control such elements. And they can build cities in mere weeks. They think themselves 'civilized,' and think of their forest-dwelling cousins as primitive. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 19 Jan 2011 09:39:34 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36989 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 11:46:07
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| Indeed. The taredhel are the most recently intro'ed group of elves. For the first few books, there's just the eledhel (regular elves) and the moredhel (the Brotherhood of the Dark Path, or dark elves). What's most interesting to me is that moredhel can become eledhel, and assumably, vice-versa. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 21:49:39
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Ah, yes, the Returning---when they turn away from the lure of the Dark Path, and when the color of their skin changes; something they could not fake because of the Spellweavers' magic that tests their true intention. So very few have Returned so far.
I'm really looking forward to A Kingdom Besieged, the first book in the Chaos Wars series, which will be released this March. I wonder how His Haughtiness would receive Tomas, who's part Valheru, their former master. And of course, Pug, who will definitely make them change their view that humans are lesser beings. I'm wondering, too, if the cause of the demons' ceaseless attacks is a god....Perhaps the Nameless One, Nalar, long ago decided to sleep in Hell, and the restlessness of the demons is an outward sign that he's nearly fully awake. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36989 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2011 : 21:55:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ah, yes, the Returning---when they turn away from the lure of the Dark Path, and when the color of their skin changes; something they could not fake because of the Spellweavers' magic that tests their true intention. So very few have Returned so far.
I don't recall any mention of the moredhel having a different skintone. The only physical difference that was mentioned between the two races was hair color, but it was also mentioned that even that wasn't absolute -- that there were members of both races that had the hair color of the other race. |
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Films of Interest to Realms Fans . . .
