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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 02:08:30
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A minor (or MAJOR?) concern on this coming movie: how Dr. Strange casts spells...
I watched that Spiderman episode where Doctor Strange helped Spidey rescue MJ. I don't like how Strange cast his spells..."By the power of this...and that." And it's repeated so many times. It really sounded strange, bordering on stupid.
I much prefer how he does magic in his self-titled animated movie, and I hope the live-action one will follow that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 05:11:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
A minor (or MAJOR?) concern on this coming movie: how Dr. Strange casts spells...
I watched that Spiderman episode where Doctor Strange helped Spidey rescue MJ. I don't like how Strange cast his spells..."By the power of this...and that." And it's repeated so many times. It really sounded strange, bordering on stupid.
I much prefer how he does magic in his self-titled animated movie, and I hope the live-action one will follow that.
Eh. I like the arcane utterances Strange has used -- both in the comics and animated series appearances. And it could be handled in a live-action film, I suppose, too, since I'm assuming the Vishanti, Hoggoth, and the rest will be mentioned in the story, when Strange is drawing on their power. It's been such an integral part of the character since his earliest days back in the 60's, that I'd hate for it to be ignored in the film. |
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Edited by - The Sage on 12 Jan 2011 05:12:48 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 05:22:21
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| The repetition of "By the power of this..." and "By the power of that..." just sounds silly to me. They can translate it to some ancient language, real or made up, and insert the names of those from whom he's getting his power. Usually, when a spell is translated to English, it sounds completely bared, demystified---it loses its awe-inspiring quality. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 06:38:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The repetition of "By the power of this..." and "By the power of that..." just sounds silly to me. They can translate it to some ancient language, real or made up, and insert the names of those from whom he's getting his power. Usually, when a spell is translated to English, it sounds completely bared, demystified---it loses its awe-inspiring quality.
Hmmm. I seem to recall Strange uttering arcane phrases in an ancient dialect before. Maybe they could use something like that? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 06:46:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The repetition of "By the power of this..." and "By the power of that..." just sounds silly to me. They can translate it to some ancient language, real or made up, and insert the names of those from whom he's getting his power. Usually, when a spell is translated to English, it sounds completely bared, demystified---it loses its awe-inspiring quality.
Hmmm. I seem to recall Strange uttering arcane phrases in an ancient dialect before. Maybe they could use something like that?
Indeed. 
Actually, what I really prefer is that they make his spell-casting both voiced (using those arcane phrases you're referring to) and unvoiced, like what they did in the animated movie. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2011 : 19:00:00
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| Once is fine. But arcane/ancient phrases are still way better. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 00:11:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
By the hoary hosts of Hoggoth! It just would not be a Dr. Strange movie without those incantations. If nothing else he should at least spout an "by the all-seeing eye of Aggomotto..." even if it's just once.
Agreed. I was just re-reading some old Strange Tales issues from the late 60's, and while he's uttering arcane phrases on practically every page, I'd imagine they'd have to be referenced somewhere, since the Vishanti and other ancient powers are so integral to Strange's function as Earth's Sorcerer Supreme. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 01:03:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The repetition of "By the power of this..." and "By the power of that..." just sounds silly to me. They can translate it to some ancient language, real or made up, and insert the names of those from whom he's getting his power. Usually, when a spell is translated to English, it sounds completely bared, demystified---it loses its awe-inspiring quality.
What's wrong with....by the power of Greyskull? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 02:08:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The repetition of "By the power of this..." and "By the power of that..." just sounds silly to me. They can translate it to some ancient language, real or made up, and insert the names of those from whom he's getting his power. Usually, when a spell is translated to English, it sounds completely bared, demystified---it loses its awe-inspiring quality.
What's wrong with....by the power of Greyskull?
Funnily enough, I was just re-watching the old 1987 Masters of the Universe film the other day. I only just realised, again, that He-Man doesn't utter that phrase in the film. Instead, he just says "I have the power!" |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 04:17:28
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The almost inane (when they're repeated too many times) phrases like "By the power of this..." and "By the power of that..." remind me of the equally silly phrases uttered by anime characters. In Ghostfighter: Kurama's Rose Whip, Vincent's Black Dragon Spirit, Eugene's Ray Gun. In Fairy Tail: Gray's Ice Lance and Natsu's Flame Punch. And of course, who would forget Goku's Kame Hame Wave?! I like these characters, except Goku, but every time they're about to utter those nonsensical phrases, I tend to press on mute.
Strange can say 'by the power of...' once or twice in the entire duration of the movie---that's tolerable. The rest should be in arcane language or unvoiced. Besides, the animated movie portrayed him well, his manner of spell-casting included, so I see no reason why it can't be done that way...Again, just my thoughts. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 05:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Strange can say 'by the power of...' once or twice in the entire duration of the movie---that's tolerable. The rest should be in arcane language or unvoiced. Besides, the animated movie portrayed him well, his manner of spell-casting included, so I see no reason why it can't be done that way...Again, just my thoughts.
So long as the Vishanti and the rest of the ancient spirits receive a nod here and there during the film, I'll be happy. I'd be ecstatic if his usual lot of arcane phrases are dropped into the dialogue, but I wouldn't want them to be ignored wholesale. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 05:16:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ghostfighter? The two characters you mentioned (Kurama and Eugene) sound like the Kurama and Yusuke of Yu-Yu-Hakusho. Same weapons even.
Yes, Yu-Yu-Hakusho is the original Japanese title, Kurama is Dennis, Yusuke is Eugene, and Hei is Vincent. I heard in some countries, the title was translated into Ghost Files. 'Tis one of my favorite anime. And you'd be able to guess by now who among the main characters is my most favorite. The creator of the series is the same man who created HunterXHunter, another excellent anime, and to some extent, more convincing than the former. The characters are always in "shades of gray"---who's bad and good is never an issue. In fact, Kororo, the leader of a powerful organization of thieves/assassins, is as much a hero as a villain. What's more, they don't utter ridiculous phrases whenever they use Nen (think magic from within) to release whatever power they possess. Also, the categorization of Nen reminds me of the schools of magic in the Realms. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 05:23:23
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| Does Dr. Strange have an arch-nemesis that is also a sorcerer or magic-user? I'm kinda tired of seeing monsters. This movie better not utilize yet another monster as villain. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 06:43:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Does Dr. Strange have an arch-nemesis that is also a sorcerer or magic-user? I'm kinda tired of seeing monsters. This movie better not utilize yet another monster as villain.
As Alystra said, Mordo and Dormammu tend to be Strange's most nefarious foes. Nightmare is another. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 06:57:56
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Oh, I should have said other than Mordo. He's in the movie, so I know him. Dormammu is a sorcerer? He looks and acts like a monster in the movie.
Nightmare sounds like an interesting villain. There's a novel about Strange and him, Nightmare: Doctor Strange - Master of the Mystic Arts. Have you read it? Is it good? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 07:37:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Oh, I should have said other than Mordo. He's in the movie, so I know him. Dormammu is a sorcerer? He looks and acts like a monster in the movie.
I'd say Dormammu ranks as something more than just a sorcerer. He's entirely a mystical entity unto himself.
quote:
Nightmare sounds like an interesting villain. There's a novel about Strange and him, Nightmare: Doctor Strange - Master of the Mystic Arts. Have you read it? Is it good?
No, but it is among my "To-Read" stacks.  |
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Edited by - The Sage on 13 Jan 2011 07:38:31 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 07:56:25
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| I remember Wong and the Ancient One said that Dormammu is a being composed entirely of magic... |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 13 Jan 2011 08:35:55 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2011 : 22:47:21
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I've read certain references about Strange, but I can't find the answer...I hope someone here knows...
In the 2007 movie, Strange absorbed Dormammu's magic even without the Eye of Agamotto. Magic-absorption is a formidable power. How did he manage to wield it? And how much magic is he capable of absorbing without bursting or exploding himself into pieces? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 00:25:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I've read certain references about Strange, but I can't find the answer...I hope someone here knows...
In the 2007 movie, Strange absorbed Dormammu's magic even without the Eye of Agamotto. Magic-absorption is a formidable power. How did he manage to wield it? And how much magic is he capable of absorbing without bursting or exploding himself into pieces?
I wouldn't worry too much about it. The depiction of Strange's various mystical/arcane abilities have been kind of inconsistent over the last forty years -- depending on the writers involved. I mean, for example, in the space of a few years, I've seen him possess the ability to literally stop time across a large portion of the universe, while in another example, he's been barely able to garner enough power to stop the Hulk in his tracks. Largely, it seems to be a function of what's required for the story. If the plot for the film required Strange to possess this level of power, then that's what works for that depiction of the good Doctor.
What is known, is that Strange is one of the, if not the most, powerful mystical being on Earth and in our dimension. He's garnered respect from such cosmic beings as the Beyonder, Eternity, and even Galactus. So I'd say that speaks volumes about Strange's status and power. |
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Edited by - The Sage on 14 Jan 2011 00:26:25 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 01:33:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I've read certain references about Strange, but I can't find the answer...I hope someone here knows...
In the 2007 movie, Strange absorbed Dormammu's magic even without the Eye of Agamotto. Magic-absorption is a formidable power. How did he manage to wield it? And how much magic is he capable of absorbing without bursting or exploding himself into pieces?
I wouldn't worry too much about it. The depiction of Strange's various mystical/arcane abilities have been kind of inconsistent over the last forty years -- depending on the writers involved. I mean, for example, in the space of a few years, I've seen him possess the ability to literally stop time across a large portion of the universe, while in another example, he's been barely able to garner enough power to stop the Hulk in his tracks. Largely, it seems to be a function of what's required for the story. If the plot for the film required Strange to possess this level of power, then that's what works for that depiction of the good Doctor.
What is known, is that Strange is one of the, if not the most, powerful mystical being on Earth and in our dimension. He's garnered respect from such cosmic beings as the Beyonder, Eternity, and even Galactus. So I'd say that speaks volumes about Strange's status and power.
Thanks, Sage. That's quite interesting. 
That he was unable to stop Hulk kinda sounds odd. Mere physical strength he could not handle?! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 01:35:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Hmm, I don't know about MOST powerful on Earth, but definitely up there. Although Magick of the X-Men (New X-Men) comes close, too. So do Loki and the Enchantress, for that matter. But they're both gods....
Well, as I recall, the utterance of "most powerful" was at a time when Magick hadn't yet made her first appearance. Obviously, the listing of powerful individuals in the Marvel Universe has expanded greatly since the early 60's. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 01:43:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I've read certain references about Strange, but I can't find the answer...I hope someone here knows...
In the 2007 movie, Strange absorbed Dormammu's magic even without the Eye of Agamotto. Magic-absorption is a formidable power. How did he manage to wield it? And how much magic is he capable of absorbing without bursting or exploding himself into pieces?
I wouldn't worry too much about it. The depiction of Strange's various mystical/arcane abilities have been kind of inconsistent over the last forty years -- depending on the writers involved. I mean, for example, in the space of a few years, I've seen him possess the ability to literally stop time across a large portion of the universe, while in another example, he's been barely able to garner enough power to stop the Hulk in his tracks. Largely, it seems to be a function of what's required for the story. If the plot for the film required Strange to possess this level of power, then that's what works for that depiction of the good Doctor.
What is known, is that Strange is one of the, if not the most, powerful mystical being on Earth and in our dimension. He's garnered respect from such cosmic beings as the Beyonder, Eternity, and even Galactus. So I'd say that speaks volumes about Strange's status and power.
Thanks, Sage. That's quite interesting.
That he was unable to stop Hulk kinda sounds odd. Mere physical strength he could not handle?!
The Hulk is another character whose powers and abilities have been largely inconsistent over the last four decades. But the "World War Hulk" story-line provides some definitive examples of the failure of Strange's power against an enraged Hulk. In fact, it was this confrontation that actually forced the Master of the Mystic Arts to draw upon dark magic after the Hulk crashed his hands during a prior encounter. It all went quickly downhill for Strange after that. The dark magic he attempted to use against the Hulk, quickly began consuming him, until it was eventually purged. However, by this time he was already facing the prospect that he might need to pass on his title of Sorcerer Supreme to a more deserving individual. Which, of course, leads to the current lot of stories involving Brother Voodoo. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 01:49:45
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Wikipedia says: "Strange is capable of stopping and reversing time on a planetary scale, sealing black holes, restoring universes, absorbing power enough to unconsciously destroy any surrounding galaxies, growing to the size of and merging with universal concepts, and helped to channel the mass of the entire Marvel Universe."
That reminds me of Macros Black, a powerful magician in Feist's novels. Though there are references cited, I can't help but ask, "Are all those 'capabilites' true?" That would make him look like a god. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2011 : 01:57:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I've read certain references about Strange, but I can't find the answer...I hope someone here knows...
In the 2007 movie, Strange absorbed Dormammu's magic even without the Eye of Agamotto. Magic-absorption is a formidable power. How did he manage to wield it? And how much magic is he capable of absorbing without bursting or exploding himself into pieces?
I wouldn't worry too much about it. The depiction of Strange's various mystical/arcane abilities have been kind of inconsistent over the last forty years -- depending on the writers involved. I mean, for example, in the space of a few years, I've seen him possess the ability to literally stop time across a large portion of the universe, while in another example, he's been barely able to garner enough power to stop the Hulk in his tracks. Largely, it seems to be a function of what's required for the story. If the plot for the film required Strange to possess this level of power, then that's what works for that depiction of the good Doctor.
What is known, is that Strange is one of the, if not the most, powerful mystical being on Earth and in our dimension. He's garnered respect from such cosmic beings as the Beyonder, Eternity, and even Galactus. So I'd say that speaks volumes about Strange's status and power.
Thanks, Sage. That's quite interesting.
That he was unable to stop Hulk kinda sounds odd. Mere physical strength he could not handle?!
The Hulk is another character whose powers and abilities have been largely inconsistent over the last four decades. But the "World War Hulk" story-line provides some definitive examples of the failure of Strange's power against an enraged Hulk. In fact, it was this confrontation that actually forced the Master of the Mystic Arts to draw upon dark magic after the Hulk crashed his hands during a prior encounter. It all went quickly downhill for Strange after that. The dark magic he attempted to use against the Hulk, quickly began consuming him, until it was eventually purged. However, by this time he was already facing the prospect that he might need to pass on his title of Sorcerer Supreme to a more deserving individual. Which, of course, leads to the current lot of stories involving Brother Voodoo.
So the Hulk is 'part' of the reason he'd become too weak that he saw the need to pass the mantle of the Sorcerer Supreme to BV? That doesn't sound good to me...Of all the hundreds of Marvel characters, why that mad green-thing? It would have been better had it been Wanda. Or maybe Galactus. |
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