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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Aug 2011 : 15:01:03
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It was still Doctor Strange who eventually cured Wanda's "insanity," right? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2011 : 15:06:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
It was still Doctor Strange who eventually cured Wanda's "insanity," right?
Actually, we don't properly know. Yet. That's largely what we're supposed to discover in the current Avengers: The Children's Crusade series. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2011 : 15:26:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
It was still Doctor Strange who eventually cured Wanda's "insanity," right?
Actually, we don't properly know. Yet. That's largely what we're supposed to discover in the current Avengers: The Children's Crusade series.
Oh. I guess it's likely that it would still be the Sorcerer Supreme who'd eventually undo what she'd altered. I just hope doing so would not kill her, inadvertently or purposely. She's a great character to simply lose.
I recall you once posted a link showing Doctor Strange traveling through time and altering the reality itself. Why couldn't he do that with Wanda's case? Are his powers diminished? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2011 : 01:48:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I recall you once posted a link showing Doctor Strange traveling through time and altering the reality itself. Why couldn't he do that with Wanda's case? Are his powers diminished?
I think this is just a case of Marvel toning down Strange's powers, in order to establish a more coherent ranking of powered beings in their universe.
Back the in 70's and 80's... there wasn't as much need for characters to be ranked according to power. The scope and nature of each individual character's power was largely left to the whim of the storyteller.
I don't see that being the case as much today. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2011 : 02:00:17
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Maybe it's for the better. It would help the writers be consistent as possible. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2011 : 18:07:11
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| Also, technically speaking Strange isn't Sorcerer Supreme anymore. Indeed the office seems to be vacant to nonexistent at present. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2011 : 20:18:27
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| I do know that he can and has traveled through time on at least one occassion, and can also bring others with him on such journeys through the time-stream. There's a Spidey issue from JMS's run called Happy Birthday (#500-502 for those wondering, with one of my fave story-lines ever!) where he and Petey enter a "temporal nexus/limbo" point, "where all moments cross" or something to that effect, and Spidey sees his past and future selves at the same time, and even realizes that he can interact with them. He almost decides to stop the spider from ever biting his past self, but then realizes how many lives woulc change or be lost, and doesn't do it, even though he sees his own future death. (and I used that story as a springboard for a comic series of my own that partially averts that same future, or at least changes the circumstances of it. It involves his not-yet-existant future son. Some day, I really must send my idea in to Marvel....) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2011 : 01:39:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Also, technically speaking Strange isn't Sorcerer Supreme anymore. Indeed the office seems to be vacant to nonexistent at present.
Strange will likely assume the mantle of Earth's Sorcerer Supreme soon enough. It's happened several times in the past, and the outcome of Fear Itself will likely lead to many shake-ups in the role of some of Marvel's most prominent characters. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2011 : 01:41:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I do know that he can and has traveled through time on at least one occassion, and can also bring others with him on such journeys through the time-stream.
Indeed.
I think I've covered this in a previous portion of this scroll, whereupon I referenced the extent of Strange's most significant arcane abilities -- such as "stopping time across a universal scale," essentially "rebooting whole sections of the cosmos," and bringing dead worlds to life.
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2011 : 11:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I do know that he can and has traveled through time on at least one occassion, and can also bring others with him on such journeys through the time-stream.
Indeed.
I think I've covered this in a previous portion of this scroll, whereupon I referenced the extent of Strange's most significant arcane abilities -- such as "stopping time across a universal scale," essentially "rebooting whole sections of the cosmos," and bringing dead worlds to life.
Sounds like a godly ability to me... Kali. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2011 : 15:06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I do know that he can and has traveled through time on at least one occassion, and can also bring others with him on such journeys through the time-stream.
Indeed.
I think I've covered this in a previous portion of this scroll, whereupon I referenced the extent of Strange's most significant arcane abilities -- such as "stopping time across a universal scale," essentially "rebooting whole sections of the cosmos," and bringing dead worlds to life.
Sounds like a godly ability to me... Kali.
That, or it was just the 70's at Marvel Comics.
[I suppose only Marvel fans who were well acquainted with the portrayed "extremes" of a character's power during that era, would fully understand what I mean by that phrasing.]  |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 00:21:42
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| Yup, I'm on the same page with you there, Sage. The X-Men had some pretty radical power extremes at the time, though I'd say most of their MOST extreme power portrayals cam in the eighties, with Phoenix, Storm's emergence as an Omega-level, Wolvie's insane ability to evade death, etc..... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 01:59:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Storm's emergence as an Omega-level...
Oooh. I didn't know that. How did it happen and what did she do? Drowned a continent with a tsunami? |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 19 Aug 2011 02:00:27 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 15:12:14
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The explanation I heard for that, or at least the one I'm remembering is that the writer who declared Storm to be omega defined omega level mutants as being able to affect things no a global scale, which Storm potentially could.
Now, Logan, his powers really peaked in the nineties when he survived a nuke at ground zero, healing from nothing but a skeleton. Eventually writers felt that was getting way too out of hand and gave a new explanation that made no sense but amuses me anyway; whenever he takes too much damage, he actually dies, but then gets to fight the angel of death. He constantly wins and gets brought back to life, healed up. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
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http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 15:33:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
The explanation I heard for that, or at least the one I'm remembering is that the writer who declared Storm to be omega defined omega level mutants as being able to affect things no a global scale, which Storm potentially could.
That's really a huge boost of her powers. In the animated series, creating and maintaining a typhoon within a very limited area for even a few minutes taxed her a lot. How did she become that powerful? [Oh, did I mention she's one of my favorite mutants?]
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Now, Logan, his powers really peaked in the nineties when he survived a nuke at ground zero, healing from nothing but a skeleton. Eventually writers felt that was getting way too out of hand and gave a new explanation that made no sense but amuses me anyway; whenever he takes too much damage, he actually dies, but then gets to fight the angel of death. He constantly wins and gets brought back to life, healed up.
Seriously? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 16:04:56
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Well, note I used the word potentially; another mark of an omega level isn't necessarily what they display as much as what they're theoretically capable of. But it's been suggested that Storm's powers don't actually create weather so much as manipulate existent weather systems, and doing that even on a relative small scale can have a massive butterfly effect.
And yea, seriously. They had a storyline a while back with him losing to the angel of death and getting one last chance so he can't take that massive damage anymore. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
731 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 20:20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
The explanation I heard for that, or at least the one I'm remembering is that the writer who declared Storm to be omega defined omega level mutants as being able to affect things no a global scale, which Storm potentially could.
Now, Logan, his powers really peaked in the nineties when he survived a nuke at ground zero, healing from nothing but a skeleton. Eventually writers felt that was getting way too out of hand and gave a new explanation that made no sense but amuses me anyway; whenever he takes too much damage, he actually dies, but then gets to fight the angel of death. He constantly wins and gets brought back to life, healed up.
Lol never heard of that, will check it, not like I like Logan much, to hyped. Anyways this angel of death stuff sounds somehow...ahm... childy? |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 22:18:55
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| Oh, it's ridiculous. Plain and simple. But then again, Logan's powers had gotten ridiculous by that point, so if you're going to try and tone them down it's probably going to take something ridiculous to do it. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 06:41:41
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I guess even in the movie they boosted Wolverine's powers. Remember that scene in X-Men 3 where Jean practically turned everything to dusts? Wolverine survived her direct assault by his natural regenerative ability. And considering that Jean's powers that time as a Phoenix were like nukes, it was too unlikely for Wolverine to have survived. But then again, one may say she recognized Logan for who he was and so went a little bit easy on him... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 07:43:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I guess even in the movie they boosted Wolverine's powers. Remember that scene in X-Men 3 where Jean practically turned everything to dusts? Wolverine survived her direct assault by his natural regenerative ability. And considering that Jean's powers that time as a Phoenix were like nukes, it was too unlikely for Wolverine to have survived. But then again, one may say she recognized Logan for who he was and so went a little bit easy on him...
There wasn't much boosting involved. Wolverine's regenerative ability has always been almost "god-like."
The opening arc of the recent Wolverine: Weapon X series had Logan's regenerative healing factor fighting off specially-derived genetic-bullets carrying practically every deadly virus known to humankind. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 07:53:59
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Ah. I didn't know that. So in other words nothing could kill him except a mental attack from a telepath? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
731 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 09:11:17
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| Well even in the Ultimatum, Magneto had to literally rip his skeleton apart to kill him, though there seems like it is actually his skeleton what keeps him alive, once his skeleton is removed Wolverine is killed. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 10:29:25
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Was Jean alive in House of M? If yes, did she even try to alter Wanda's thoughts and cure her insanity? She's supposed to be the most powerful telepath, right? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
731 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 10:35:25
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The Sage has to correct me if I'm wrong but as long as I'm concerned, in fact just checked the House of M she is nowhere to be shown as Xavier who is presumed dead. Anyways even in that case don't know if she'd been able to "mend" Wanda as even Emma Frost a powerful mentalist and Stephen Strange are under the influence of the new identities created by Wanda, so proud the identity of Strange is as a psychologue  . Just Logan seems to somehow remember their true lives as his regenerative power restored his memories. |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
Edited by - Thelonius on 20 Aug 2011 10:37:10 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 10:38:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ah. I didn't know that. So in other words nothing could kill him except a mental attack from a telepath?
I'd say that would depend on the skill level of the telepath. Because, as per his training via the Weapon X program, Logan's mind has certain in-built psionic defences that prevents a degree of telepathic tampering. Which is why, largely, both Jean Grey and Professor X had such a hard time trying to break through the safeguards of his mind back when he was trying to retrieve his memories in the early 90's worth of X-Men and Wolverine tales. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 10:40:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Was Jean alive in House of M? If yes, did she even try to alter Wanda's thoughts and cure her insanity? She's supposed to be the most powerful telepath, right?
Jean Grey was already dead by the time of House of M. And besides, I don't think she'd have been able to accomplish much. Professor X didn't have much luck helping Wanda. And Emma Frost, whose telepathic skill is somewhat comparable to the non-Phoenix level Jean Grey, couldn't manage to bring Wanda's fractured psyche under control either.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 10:42:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ah. I didn't know that. So in other words nothing could kill him except a mental attack from a telepath?
I'd say that would depend on the skill level of the telepath. Because, as per his training via the Weapon X program, Logan's mind has certain in-built psionic defences that prevents a degree of telepathic tampering. Which is why, largely, both Jean Grey and Professor X had such a hard time trying to break through the safeguards of his mind back when he was trying to retrieve his memories in the early 90's worth of X-Men and Wolverine tales.
Oooh. Now I'm beginning to really like him. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 10:44:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
The Sage has to correct me if I'm wrong but as long as I'm concerned, in fact just checked the House of M she is nowhere to be shown as Xavier who is presumed dead. Anyways even in that case don't know if she'd been able to "mend" Wanda as even Emma Frost a powerful mentalist and Stephen Strange are under the influence of the new identities created by Wanda, so proud the identity of Strange is as a psychologue .
You're in the right.
quote:
Just Logan seems to somehow remember their true lives as his regenerative power restored his memories.
That, and the fact that his mind had been so tampered with in the past. So when Wanda reconstructed all of reality, his mind was essentially a mental-jumble... with the memories of the pre-House of M world bumping up against memories brought about by the new reality presented in the story. Eventually, the pre-House of M memories won over and reasserted their dominance in Logan's mind.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 10:45:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And besides, I don't think she'd have been able to accomplish much. Professor X didn't have much luck helping Wanda...
Even with the use of Cerebro? It's supposed to increase his psychic powers exponentially, right? Are there already hints given as to what or who could cure Wanda? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Films of Interest to Realms Fans . . .
