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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Dec 2010 : 06:01:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The explanation is that illithids were originally created by foolish humans or gith forerunners -- or elder elves, or reigar, or something else fairly close in shape and size -- exploring the Far Realm and coming back implanted. Since those are the beings they first bonded with, those are the type of beings they bond with now, and the only other type of creatures they're compatible with are things that are very much like themselves.
I like that explanation... Particularly the reigar. They'd certainly be crazed enough to do something dangerous like that!
It's certainly even more interesting when you consider that the reigar are such beautiful creatures. To have eventually become something -- considered so hideous by most other civilised races -- I think, only further underlines the vileness of the process of ceremorphosis. |
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Edited by - The Sage on 19 Dec 2010 06:02:56 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2010 : 06:24:15
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| Are reigar detailed in spelljammer lore? |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2010 : 08:24:17
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| Thanx, Sage! The artwork's not too bad, the girl is even slightly cute in a punky defiant way. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 12:48:38
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| Illithids played a big part in my time travel campaign over the years. The story was that they genetically manipulated/created an entire human race to prevent them from becoming the ''Race of Destiny'', not just the gith (the gith failed when after becoming reptilian, but humanity still has potential). Illithids looked too humanoid to be from the Far Realm, and even in Spelljammer it says that they were human once. Ilsensine was from the Far Realm, but I moved it from the Outlands to Astral where it is a thought-cluster of maddening, bureaucratic information (kind of like the AI god in Hyperion). There are no temporal paradoxes cause the pcs remain in that particular timeline/dimension. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2010 : 13:05:16
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| If even simple deities can easily maintain multiple simultaneous consciousnesses (ie, each avatar is an independent thinking entity) then superintelligent deities (like the illithid powers) should easily be able to maintain simultaneous avatars scattered throughout time or even parallel time. Assuming they have access to time travel. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 22:18:42
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| I think you are missing a "d" there, although Illithid-Riders could be interesting too :p |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2010 : 23:50:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
My hubby brought up a rather frightening thought earlier- Illithidriders!! That's ALL we need- illithids with webs and wall-walking....
Couldn't be any worse than Dinoriders, right?  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 01:45:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ah, the good old Spider-Mobile!! And it's STILL sitting at the bottom of the Hudson River..... (D'ya think they'll ever pull it out?) Actually, sage, I was referring to this: http://www.spiderriders.com/
Actually, I think the Spider-Mobile was recovered. I recall Spidey returning the vehicle to Carter & Lombardo, after the Tinkerer affair. And it was briefly seen in the Smithsonian, in an old Marvel Knights issue. And, then, in the future-timeline of "Old Man Logan," a blind Hawkeye owned the Spider-Mobile... though he customised it somewhat.
...
And thanks for the link, too. I wasn't all that familiar with "Spider-Riders." I may just look into this further. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 01:54:32
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| I'm not sure he actually returned it. I know he told them what happened to it, and they were going to recover it, but it was too heavy or something, and they only got the engine, I think. I don't think I ever saw the old man Logan story, or the Marvel Knights issue. I do recall that he mentioned it recently as still being down there, and wanting to get it out and repair it. It was in a post- BND issue, I think. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 02:19:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I'm not sure he actually returned it. I know he told them what happened to it, and they were going to recover it, but it was too heavy or something, and they only got the engine, I think. I don't think I ever saw the old man Logan story, or the Marvel Knights issue. I do recall that he mentioned it recently as still being down there, and wanting to get it out and repair it. It was in a post- BND issue, I think.
Spidey returned it [via webbing] to Carter & Lombardo in Amazing Spider-Man #160. He left it hanging, beaten and broken, outside their office window, IIRC. And the recent issue you're thinking of, is #647. Though, Overdrive's comments would seem to support the likelihood that the Spider-Mobile was turned over to the Smithsonian.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2010 : 23:26:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's also ironic that this time, it's the Sage going way off-topic.
Couldn't help it. It's comics and it's Spider-Man -- two of my great passions! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2010 : 05:06:42
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As I think I've mentioned earlier (and elsewhere), my own, homebrew world will have a single illithid-like 'race' representing many of the aberration variants. Each will be the result of a neothelid (I will have my own term) 'bonding' with a different host. Since the host-DNA and that of the 'thid merge (like in the Alien movies), you can wind up with some very different creatures. For instance, my version of the Aboleth will probably be the result of an Illithid and some sort of intelligent Fish - perhaps something akin to a small whale or porpoise. The 'Illi-thid' will be the human variant hybrid (and most common, of course).
Although I like the ear-parasite thing (its very Star Trek - imagine if Chekhov became a mindflayer!), I need to keep mine different, and I think I prefer more of a horror element then a ScyFi element (after all, this is supposed to be based on Lovecraftian writings). Ergo, my 'tadpole' stage will be some sort of cannibalistic slug¹ that actually eats the head of its victim, and then 'rides' them (so that the body is actually the cadaver of something else). Not sure about that, though - it precludes my ability to create interesting hybrids.
I may have to divide what I have into two different variants - one that is more like the vampiric version of a Mindflayer (the one that rides the corpse), and then a standard one. I may have to say after a certain point in development, the 'window' is missed and it can no longer merge its DNA with its host, which is what creates the Ghûlethids. That would make them more like the neothelids that have 'missed the boat' by not being implanted.
quote:
Page 19 of The Illithiad
The first sentient brain that the growing slug manages to eat triggers reciprocal sentience. Self awareness and a blossoming psionic potential combine in lethal measure, assuring the success of the creature's continued growth and survival.
Seems to back-up my/our theory that the natural evolution of an Illithid was somehow 'accidentally' interrupted and the first Mindflayer was born. Perhaps it was that first, ill-fated contact that the Supralithids (source?) sent others back in time to preserve. Maybe they are successful in their bid to 'Rule the universe' (by combining all their Elder brains into an enormous astral Overmind), and something about humanity (time travel?) will prevent that 'first Contact'. It also may be the reason why they have to 'put up with' the Gith - if the Gith were responsible, then that 'First Contact' may not have even occurred yet, so they can't destroy the race(s) that will eventually cause their genesis. All of the Mindflayers in our universe may be time travelers, or descendants of those time-travelers, and a proto-Illithid hasn't even eaten it's first sentient brain yet!
That could be the entire reason for their return to the past - they may have already won, and some unstable (unpredictable?) attribute of humankind could destroy their past, stealing their victory. We know that the very art of magical human time-travel was named after a Netherease archmage, the Chronomancer². Perhaps that 'shadowy figure' lurking in Temporal Prime is the Chronomancer or one of his apprentices, and he/it is aware of future events? That could also be why the Illithids normally detest magic (which may be their downfall). Humans may be able to stop them by changing the past, which they have come to prevent (and which hasn't happened yet - the Illithid 'past' is still our 'future'). The Mindflayers are only pawns - the Elder Brains would know the truth of things, and keep the 'flayers from screwing something up.
The Illithids may be engineering their own apotheosis. 
And I'm just reading through the Illithiad and note a few strange things. They fear undead, who they feel were created with the sole purpose of thwarting their ultimate goals. That's rather intriguing. Because they have True Infravision (NOT 3e's 'Darkvision), they can't 'see' undead, nor can they sense them - even the intelligent types apparently. Undead brains are 'invisible' to Illithids, just as their coporeal forms are to Illithid vision.
Also, I have to wonder who Khulgar the Mind-Ripper was (pg.60) - he sounds very intriguing as well.
¹This line made me picture THIS, which I suppose could be what happens if the larval stage never bounds with a host, and they wind-up living on some backwater planet. 
²The Netherease had an early run-in with the illithids, who treated the Minflayers the way they usually treat others; they dissected them and treated them like chattel. Can you imagine how that makes the Mindlfayers feel? That there is a race out there that would look at them like creatures to be used and discarded? Its small wonder that Mindflayers came from human (Gith) stock - Humanity isn't all that different from the Illithid (The Netherease didn't single them out either - they did that to Neogi, Beholders, and even the Arcane!) Those early encounters, coupled with Netherease Chronomancy, could be the driving force behind the Illithids own time-travel, AND their interest in Toril. Humans didn't make too many friends in Realmspace, so obviously they 'bear watching'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Dec 2010 08:05:03 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2010 : 07:24:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay...Ergo, my 'tadpole' stage will be some sort of cannibalistic slug¹ that actually eats the head of its victim, and then 'rides' them (so that the body is actually the cadaver of something else). Not sure about that, though - it precludes my ability to create interesting hybrids.
I've never been particularly fond of aboleth, but illithid are pretty cool.
One really creepy and fun way to take this idea might be to have your tadpole slug burrow into the back of someone's head like a goa'uld on Stargate SG-1. Then, slowly, it eats the brain as it gains control of the body. Eventually, like the Alien movies, the skull case might crack open and expose the slithery (and much bigger) larval illithid-like thing.
In the earliest stage of brain-feasting, maybe the host still has partial control. Their mind and life slipping away, along with longer periods of larval control.
It also has the benefit of switching things up so players don't immediately know what they're fighting. A young illithi-thing could look and act fairly human for a month or more, until the skull cracks open and freaks everyone out.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 25 Dec 2010 07:28:38 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2010 : 08:01:38
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I like that A LOT - thanks. 
Might have to get you to 'sign something' if my site ever goes live (don't worry, at the rate I work, that won't be several more centuries).
I guess the skin starts to slough-off after that, a'la The Fly (newer, Jeff Goldblum version), so that we can eventually get that slimey, clawed-looked.
like I said, I think I will have the 'cadaver-riders' only be the ones that didn't host-bond in-time, or alternately, haven't found a suitable host yet. In some cases, the host may die, thus creating that situation, which the Thoods {WIP name} wouldn't really care for, and would be looking for a 'true host' (one they could bond with on the genetic level).
I think using the proto-thelids in this fashion gives DMs a lot more creative room. You could draw from everything from the Alien to The thing for your variants. Imagine Fido coming home, and suddenly having tentacles around his maw and looking at you hungrily. 
And I just thought of a new variant - the Illithaalud!
It would have magic-draining tentacles around its stomach-mouth. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Dec 2010 08:13:26 |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 02:18:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's also ironic that this time, it's the Sage going way off-topic.
Couldn't help it. It's comics and it's Spider-Man -- two of my great passions!
I always knew you were "all hands." :P |
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2010 : 02:20:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It would have magic-draining tentacles around its stomach-mouth.
This really does need some serious imagery. Anyone willing to give it a shot? |
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2010 : 02:39:29
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I was actually in the middle of attempting just that a little while ago, but then we lost power here for an hour (and I lost what I had started in photoshop).
And I just lost power again while trying to post this - major blizzard going on here right now. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 00:20:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I've discovered a d20/OGL book by Paradigm Publishing called Races of Legend - Unveiled Masters: the Essential Guide to Mind Flayers.
(pdf preview download here).
This book looks pretty good and has received lots of positive reviews. Does anyone recommend it?
If you recall, I spoke briefly about this tome back on pg. 2:-
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Interestingly, the third-party Unveiled Masters source, states that the "neoleth" [the book's version of the D&D neothelid {given that they can't use the term "illithid"}] are an example of illethkin [the species of illithid detailed in the book] who "abandon the humanoid form altogether." These neoleth are still related to the illethkin, but instead, look very much like a giant worm. It's also stated that neoleths "are mutations, possibly caused by the tampering of the mind flayers with their reproduction over the millennia, or by exposure to the strange, preternatural forces at work in illeth cities."
So long as you take into account the alternate names, and the new spin on traditional mind-flayer elements, you'll like this tome. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 03:04:14
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quote:
The Sage
If you recall, I spoke briefly about this tome back on pg. 2:-
Strange that I completely missed that the first time around. 
But thanx for the reference, Sage. I'll treat your [double] mention as a positive recommendation for this tome. Alternate names and new spins won't thwart me - though I hope they'll confuse my players. (I'm always on the lookout for new lore which hasn't yet been put in our sharing pile and studied/discussed extensively by all my victims players.) |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 30 Dec 2010 03:06:07 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2010 : 04:03:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
The Sage
If you recall, I spoke briefly about this tome back on pg. 2:-
Strange that I completely missed that the first time around.
But thanx for the reference, Sage. I'll treat your [double] mention as a positive recommendation for this tome. Alternate names and new spins won't thwart me - though I hope they'll confuse my players. (I'm always on the lookout for new lore which hasn't yet been put in our sharing pile and studied/discussed extensively by all my victims players.)
Indeed.
I do like the tome, overall. I mean, it can read as a little generic at times, since the publishers/writers are kinda limited with what they can borrow from official D&D illithid lore. But I did enjoy the expansive details on illeth technology, space travel, and the several new deities for the illeth pantheon. All in all, 'tis one of my favourite third-party tomes. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Ilithids
