| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 23:09:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
According to my notes and mental recall, Sememmon has been doing the clone shuffle for at least a century or so. Thus, his former mentor/master is most likely at least as old and more likely older still. Keep in mind that each of them has to have made some reputation for himself before joining the Zhents, and their histories make it more than a few decades back.
If forced into an opinion, I'd roughly guess (also supported by Zhentarim history, which George and others can cehck better than I at the moment (back in Wisconsin for the holiday)) that Manshoon's been alive and kicking in original and cloned bodies for at least 200 years.
Steven
Interesante... Any other bits on Sememmon you'd care to share? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
 |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 00:33:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
According to my notes and mental recall, Sememmon has been doing the clone shuffle for at least a century or so. Thus, his former mentor/master is most likely at least as old and more likely older still. Keep in mind that each of them has to have made some reputation for himself before joining the Zhents, and their histories make it more than a few decades back.
If forced into an opinion, I'd roughly guess (also supported by Zhentarim history, which George and others can cehck better than I at the moment (back in Wisconsin for the holiday)) that Manshoon's been alive and kicking in original and cloned bodies for at least 200 years.
Steven
Interesante... Any other bits on Sememmon you'd care to share?
I agree. In fact, if you could just consult your mental scroll again, I'd like to hear what you think Sememmon might currently be up to...
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 02:39:27
|
So if they have suppressed their need to kill each other does that mean they are not schemeing against each other or oatherwise plotting their return to the keep?
On a side note there is so much that WOTC could have done with this and the return of Bane in novels I am surprised that they didn't do anything at all. The only thing the really did a novel on was the Shade returning. (don't spoil it I haven't read them yet)
In all honesty though I was more than a bit put out by Banes return. (wich is why in my game he is dead,dead,dead  ) But even more so by the fact it was only given a few lines in a sourcebook rather than a full fledges novel...Just my opinion. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 03:15:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
So if they have suppressed their need to kill each other does that mean they are not schemeing against each other or oatherwise plotting their return to the keep?
At least one of the three Manshoons that are officially still around has gotten around the compulsion to kill the other Manshoons. Likely, the others have found ways around it, as well, but Orbakh has definitely got it covered: only living Manshoon clones are compelled to hunt down and kill each other. Become undead, or something other than a copy of Manshoon, and a Manshoon clone is in the clear.
I know at least one person on the WotC forums had one of the clones become a female, thus getting around the compulsion. I myself have been fiddling with having a Manshoon somehow turn himself into a fey'ri...
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
On a side note there is so much that WOTC could have done with this and the return of Bane in novels I am surprised that they didn't do anything at all. The only thing the really did a novel on was the Shade returning. (don't spoil it I haven't read them yet)
You're not missing much if you skip the Return of the Archwizards trilogy. There wasn't much I found likable about those books, and a couple of things I seriously disliked.
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
In all honesty though I was more than a bit put out by Banes return. (wich is why in my game he is dead,dead,dead ) But even more so by the fact it was only given a few lines in a sourcebook rather than a full fledges novel...Just my opinion.
I concur. I never really liked Bane, but still, they should have done more for his return other than a sentence or two. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Nov 2004 03:18:51 |
|
|
|
Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 03:48:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I agree. In fact, if you could just consult your mental scroll again, I'd like to hear what you think Sememmon might currently be up to...
Officially, I don't know anything, and thus he could be up to darned near anything within the minds of the official FR designers these days.
Unofficially, I'd hazard a guess he's up to curious and dangerous things, most likely such that will visit all the risk and ruin upon everyone who isn't either Sememmon or Ashemmi. 
Believe me, guys, I've got ideas aplenty for many of the characters of the Realms, but like Ed, it's safer and better to NDA or obfuscate than it is to paint someone else in the corner with unofficial vs. official lore.
First thing I hear that I'm cleared to pass along, I'll try and do so. Until then, it's guesswork and NDAs.
Steven
Who is of the opinion at least that Sememmon and Ashemmi are very much like the moral shadows (or Mirror Universe counterparts in a way) of Khelben and Laeral Arunsun--utterly loyal and devoted to each other almost to the exception of all others, but very pragmatic in all other ways |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
|
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 14:08:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I agree. In fact, if you could just consult your mental scroll again, I'd like to hear what you think Sememmon might currently be up to...
Believe me, guys, I've got ideas aplenty for many of the characters of the Realms, but like Ed, it's safer and better to NDA or obfuscate than it is to paint someone else in the corner with unofficial vs. official lore.
First thing I hear that I'm cleared to pass along, I'll try and do so. Until then, it's guesswork and NDAs.
Hey, I prefer it that way  . I was just curious as to your thinking on the whole "Sememmon" issue.
Your comment about both Sememmon and Ashemmi being the moral counterparts of the Blackstaff and Laeral is an idea in itself. In fact, I've just come up with a nifty little adventure hook. But, since Alaundo is still looking for some other adventure hook submissions for the Compendium, I think I'll sit on it for a while and expand upon the original idea and see where it takes me in the Realms. When it's ready, I'll send Alaundo a copy...
Thank you, Mr Schend .
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 15:06:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Hey, I prefer it that way . I was just curious as to your thinking on the whole "Sememmon" issue.
Your comment about both Sememmon and Ashemmi being the moral counterparts of the Blackstaff and Laeral is an idea in itself. In fact, I've just come up with a nifty little adventure hook. But, since Alaundo is still looking for some other adventure hook submissions for the Compendium, I think I'll sit on it for a while and expand upon the original idea and see where it takes me in the Realms. When it's ready, I'll send Alaundo a copy...
Thank you, Mr Schend .
Well met
Splendid, Sage Sounds very intriguing, i'll look forward to it  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 17:18:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Steven
Who is of the opinion at least that Sememmon and Ashemmi are very much like the moral shadows (or Mirror Universe counterparts in a way) of Khelben and Laeral Arunsun--utterly loyal and devoted to each other almost to the exception of all others, but very pragmatic in all other ways
'Tis an interesting idea, friend Steven. I feel an idea forming in the back of my mind at that thought...  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
danyew
Acolyte
Singapore
3 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 13:11:27
|
| ok,lemme get this right.There are currently 3 manshoons walking all over faerun...does that mean that there are no more "manshoon clones" in reserve? |
Prince Arien Silverleaf |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 16:55:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by danyew
ok,lemme get this right.There are currently 3 manshoons walking all over faerun...does that mean that there are no more "manshoon clones" in reserve?
There are officially only three active Manshoon clones... But that's not to say that some of the remaining clones have not undergone some sort of change, so that they are no longer a regular clone of Manshoon -- like my idea of having one become a fey'ri, or the idea I mentioned where someone had Manshoon become female.
As mentioned above, I personally think that WotC ended the Manshoon Wars too quickly, and that they should have left more around.
As for having clones in reserve... Manshoon's use of this spell has given him a form of immortality. It insures that even if he is killed, he will still see his plans come to fruition, and it allows him to take some rather insane risks, because even if killed, he'll still be around. So I'd say that the two living Manshoons (the one in Undermountain and the one in Zhentil Keep) have, since the Manshoon Wars, cast the stasis clone spell again. It may have performed rather weird once, but it worked all those other times...
Though I'm not sure where the reference is, I seem to recall reading that Manshoon Prime was trying to figure out a way to move his consciousness between his clones at will... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 23 Dec 2004 16:57:20 |
|
|
|
the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 18:07:36
|
Which leads me to a question on the clone spells.
Ok so the clones are updated to include Manshoons memories, so when one Manshoon dies the new one awakends with just the last Manshoons memories, does this mean that the original soul of Manshoon has perished and just copies of him remain or does his soul travel from clone to clone?
It seems teh former since all the clones woke up at the beginning of the Manshoon wars. And yes they were ended too quickly. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 19:07:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
Which leads me to a question on the clone spells.
Ok so the clones are updated to include Manshoons memories, so when one Manshoon dies the new one awakends with just the last Manshoons memories, does this mean that the original soul of Manshoon has perished and just copies of him remain or does his soul travel from clone to clone?
It seems teh former since all the clones woke up at the beginning of the Manshoon wars. And yes they were ended too quickly.
The original write-up of the spell stated that the clone was an exact duplicate of the caster. Any memories or levels gained after that, the clone didn't have -- unless the caster physically touched the clone, which would "update" it.
As for the soul, that's a tricky one... I'd say it travels to the next clone. Note that this does not explain how 40 clones suddenly woke up at once -- how would one soul suddenly fracture into 40 parts? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 20:33:39
|
Thats where it trips me up as well. My thought is that, in this case, the 'true' Manshoons soul is wherever it went after death or in some state of limbo and will not return until one clone is left.
I know it's kind of weak but it's the most logical thing I can come up with. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 21:36:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
Thats where it trips me up as well. My thought is that, in this case, the 'true' Manshoons soul is wherever it went after death or in some state of limbo and will not return until one clone is left.
I know it's kind of weak but it's the most logical thing I can come up with.
A thought I had was that the magical assualt by Lord Orgauth and Fzoul somehow fractured Manshoon's soul, and each clone received one of those shards. But that's kinda weak, too. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 23:40:04
|
I understand what you mean and it looks as if both of our thoughts assume that Manshoons soul is still intact after the first cloning. It could be that the original Manshoon is long gone and unaware of his clones actions...a price paid for attempted immortality?
However the only case I could make for the urge to kill the other clones would be the soul of Manshoon needing a body but that does not allow for the change to this compulsion when a particular Manshoon changes form to remove the need to kill the other clones. Of course this could only be a temporary measure.
Thus this is the price we pay for the premature ending to the Manshoon wars. All questions and no explinations.  |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2004 : 00:11:25
|
Ahh but if we go by the "all inclusive" description of canon - one of Ed's "Spin a Yarn" pieces of FR fiction denies the current 'real' Manshoon any knowledge of his stasis clone spell. The vampire one couldn't use it because he's undead, so that leaves the one in Undermountain. I wonder how stasis clone would gel with Halaster's web of personal spell bindings and contingencies ...?
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 26 Dec 2004 05:58:59 |
|
|
|
the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2004 : 00:42:44
|
Interesting. I'll add a note here that my take on canon is that even though it is history it contains errors both honest and intentional. So any of it could be wrong etc etc...
Thats besides the point, I know, but it is an interesting spin on the Manshoon issues. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2004 : 06:12:36
|
Excuse me? I never claimed that the Spin a Yarns are canon, thank you very much. And going by Ed's words, that he has said repeatedly in his stick'd thread, parts of them are canon because he puts Realmslore in them but mostly they are not. So get off your high horse and please don't put words in my mouth when ALL info from Ed or other game designers, that you might not agree with, say otherwise on what is or is not canon.
Edit: Furthermore this poster said almost a year ago: Anvil posted, "Savras, I met Ed Greenwood at Pentacon (Fort Wayne, Indiana) this fall and asked him about the Spin A Yarn panels. He said the stories can't be canon because the audience suggestions have got more and more ridiculous. The panels are a SCREAM to attend, though they can get a bit X-rated (because of the audience more than EG himself)."
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=162233&highlight=spin+a+yarn |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Dec 2004 07:25:49 |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2004 : 07:45:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
[
This used to be such a friendly forum where you only got yelled at when you made sarcastic remarks about Eberron.
Perhaps my fault, though have not discussed Eberron. |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2004 : 07:48:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Perhaps my fault, though have not discussed Eberron.
Nay not your fault. George just likes to think he knows more about things when there are times he doesn't know more then he believes he does. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 25 Dec 2004 07:50:25 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2004 : 17:56:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Nay not your fault. George just likes to think he knows more about things when there are times he doesn't know more then he believes he does.
Well, for what it's worth, I've enjoyed posts from both of the individuals involved and have always found each scribe friendly to fellow Realms fans.
Thus, I hope in all seriousness that this doesn't get personal as it appears to be at or heading to.
SB |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2004 : 18:32:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Well, for what it's worth, I've enjoyed posts from both of the individuals involved and have always found each scribe friendly to fellow Realms fans.
Thus, I hope in all seriousness that this doesn't get personal as it appears to be at or heading to.
SB
Nay I'm done with this arguement, but I didn't appreciate George's snide remark that started this. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 05:57:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Excuse me? I never claimed that the Spin a Yarns are canon, thank you very much. And going by Ed's words, that he has said repeatedly in his stick'd thread, parts of them are canon because he puts Realmslore in them but mostly they are not. So get off your high horse and please don't put words in my mouth when ALL info from Ed or other game designers, that you might not agree with, say otherwise on what is or is not canon.
Edit: Furthermore this poster said almost a year ago: Anvil posted, "Savras, I met Ed Greenwood at Pentacon (Fort Wayne, Indiana) this fall and asked him about the Spin A Yarn panels. He said the stories can't be canon because the audience suggestions have got more and more ridiculous. The panels are a SCREAM to attend, though they can get a bit X-rated (because of the audience more than EG himself)."
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=162233&highlight=spin+a+yarn
Hmm, looks like I've ruffled a few feathers here, for which I absolutely apologise. My understanding of Kuje's 'take' on canon is anything with an FR logo on it (including the PC games) was "canon". If that's wrong, well I apologise again.
Similarly, you can't take someone to task for not reading or previously noticing Ed's comments re "The Spin a Yarn" series. Obviously, I'm wrong again. Apologies all round.
And there was no snide aspect to my posting (despite my being philosophically opposed to anyone who doesn't subscribe to a more complex and eclectic concept of canon - whoever they may be and with the utmost respect for them having their own viewpoint on the topic. And again, I apologise if anyone is offended that I disagree with them publicly) - all I was doing was noting the contents of particular "Spin A Yarn" piece and juxtaposing it to the "anything that has the FR logo on it, appears on the WotC FR website, is mumbled under his breath by Ed Greenwood, is canon"-school of thought (which I previously thought Kuje may be an adherent to, but am obviously wrong, wrong, wrong - for which I apologise to him again, personally) and highlighting the conundrum ON THE TOPIC OF MANSHOON that this creates.
Apologies to Kuje once again. I certainly didn't want to upset him, insinuate that his concept of "canon" is flawed, incorrect or problematic, or in any way tend to give the impression that he isn't a stalwart of the Realms and an all-round interesting person, as presented by his persona here on the C-Keep boards.
Suitably chastened, I'll amend my obviously confronting posting style and content.
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 06:02:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
Nay not your fault. George just likes to think he knows more about things when there are times he doesn't know more then he believes he does.
And, notwithstanding my comments above, it's nice to see that Kuje took the moral high ground with the above post and took his bat and ball and went home.
-- George Krashos
|
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 07:29:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Hmm, looks like I've ruffled a few feathers here, for which I absolutely apologise. My understanding of Kuje's 'take' on canon is anything with an FR logo on it (including the PC games) was "canon". If that's wrong, well I apologise again.
Similarly, you can't take someone to task for not reading or previously noticing Ed's comments re "The Spin a Yarn" series. Obviously, I'm wrong again. Apologies all round.
And there was no snide aspect to my posting (despite my being philosophically opposed to anyone who doesn't subscribe to a more complex and eclectic concept of canon - whoever they may be and with the utmost respect for them having their own viewpoint on the topic. And again, I apologise if anyone is offended that I disagree with them publicly) - all I was doing was noting the contents of particular "Spin A Yarn" piece and juxtaposing it to the "anything that has the FR logo on it, appears on the WotC FR website, is mumbled under his breath by Ed Greenwood, is canon"-school of thought (which I previously thought Kuje may be an adherent to, but am obviously wrong, wrong, wrong - for which I apologise to him again, personally) and highlighting the conundrum ON THE TOPIC OF MANSHOON that this creates.
Apologies to Kuje once again. I certainly didn't want to upset him, insinuate that his concept of "canon" is flawed, incorrect or problematic, or in any way tend to give the impression that he isn't a stalwart of the Realms and an all-round interesting person, as presented by his persona here on the C-Keep boards.
Suitably chastened, I'll amend my obviously confronting posting style and content.
-- George Krashos
Tis fine, it just got under my skin. :)
And no that was never my take and I have said repeatedly, in the past, that most of the puter games are not canon except for parts of them or the old SSI ones since they tied so much with the old lore. :)
All I've ever said is that most FR novels, Dragon/Dungeon magazine, certain web articles, and sourcebooks are canon since this is also what TSR and WOTC has said repeatedly.
But sorry to the board for airing this out and it's forgiven and forgotten I hope. And I to apologize for the other remark above since I was annoyed that night when I posted that.
Now can we drop this and get back on topic. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Dec 2004 07:32:58 |
|
|
|
the psychotic seaotter
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 00:32:04
|
One question and it is not an attempt to start something...Whats the big deal with canon anyway? Seriously who really cares about this? I could care less what WOTC,Ed or anyone else says is canon as to keep my games continuity up.
Yes I like the novels and yes there should be somecontinuity to them but drooling over finally hearing what Storm Silverhands bust size is or what color Khelbins last stool was is a bit sad, whats even worse is basing your game off this...
Sorry but I just don't get it..and yes some of the above commebts were attempts at humor. |
Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...
The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast. |
|
|
|
SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 00:59:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
One question and it is not an attempt to start something...Whats the big deal with canon anyway? Seriously who really cares about this? I could care less what WOTC,Ed or anyone else says is canon as to keep my games continuity up.
You'd be surprised at what can develop over discussions on this subject. I've seen on more than a few message boards, canon discussions quickly turn into arguments where people that had once been models of civility turn into ill mannered idiots.
quote:
I like the novels and yes there should be somecontinuity to them but drooling over finally hearing what Storm Silverhands bust size is or what color Khelbins last stool was is a bit sad, whats even worse is basing your game off this...
34d for the first query. I'll leave another scribe to tackle the latter topic. |
|
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 01:10:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
One question and it is not an attempt to start something...Whats the big deal with canon anyway? Seriously who really cares about this?
This is hard to explain because there are many different reasons.
One wants often to know the world they live in. Discovering that the ring of protection provides less protection causes upset. "What do you mean I failed to save I have <foo> that says I always get a save"
Some relay on the rules, *you see a yellow mold* that each having read the MM know is very dangious if attacked by fire. The DM making the yellow mode only safely killed by fire upsets expectaions of the players, of course the Characters just suffer the punishment.
There are some fans loyal to the Storyline because of respect for the crafted and seek to recreate it.
In general, IMO, it comes down to the demand/expectation of some stability.
If a DM announces a FR game with minor adjustments player can generate characters based on novels and source materials that any PC should have some knowledge of. Realm history and so on.
Then if the DM announces one of the minor adjustments is a 25 percent spell list, that certain communities no longer exist and so on. The player expectation is dashed (Oh the DM that bad would not tend to manage a campaign well either) of playing in FR, perhaps Hillsfar does not exist or got burned down when a character history was based on having family in Hillsfar.
Canon is an anchor to any defined world. The more history about a defined world the more a duty to respect its histroy. Sink Waterdeep anf most will not believe that they are in FR, just a world simmalar to it, unless such an event is explained by an official source. This because the information becomes common knowledge. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 01:15:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter
One question and it is not an attempt to start something...Whats the big deal with canon anyway? Seriously who really cares about this? I could care less what WOTC,Ed or anyone else says is canon as to keep my games continuity up.
Some people care about canon because they want to stick with the official line. I'm one of them, and there are plenty of others. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Manshoon.....
