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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 04:46:14
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So I was relooking through my lords of darkness book as I'm planning to use some Iron Throne and Shadow Thieves soon. I noticed that Lord Shadow was a 35 level arcane caster, even higher then Larloch. Is he the highest level arcane caster by 3.0/3.5 standards? I think Aumvor the undying is higher, but my champions of ruin is loaned out. Who is the highest arcane caster?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 04:53:07
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I'd thought Larloch. Though I think his stats (online) were just burned up, I can't recall any canon references.
The Terraseer and (recent) Szass Tam might be comparable or even higher. Again, I'm not sure of canon stats. Of course there's always Karsus and a ton of other Netherese arcanists, not sure if they count. Or Halaster, since he's, uh, kinda dead now.
I recall the Magister had some mighty 2E caster stats, I'll look through it later. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 05:09:42
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| Yeah, Larloch is only level 32, Szass Tam is 29, Terraseer is only level 30. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:09:22
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So my most favorite villain is the highest level spellcaster? How fitting... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:21:44
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| Telemont Tanthul? Are any of his princes (or Hardhrune) of similar level? How about all the assorted Chosens? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:31:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Telemont Tanthul? Are any of his princes (or Hardhrune) of similar level?
Nope. Though Rivalen came close. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:35:05
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| Considering that the Tanthul crew was able to summon and bind Mephistopheles (a greater power) against his will, for a time at least, I should wonder what these other folks who are "only level 30" could do. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:41:46
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The seven sisters are levels are Sylune Wiz20/Sor2/Ft2, Alustriel is level Wiz20/Sor2/Acm2, Dove is Rgr14/Sor9/Rog4/Hrp1, Storm is level Rog1/Ftr4/Sor12/Brd8/Hrp3 (So nowhere close in arcane terms), Laeral is Wiz19/Sor4/Rgr7, Simbul is Sor20/Acm2/Wiz10, and Qilue is a cleric anyway. Halaster is level 30, Elminster is level 35, however 6 of those levels are other things that aren't arcane (Fighter, Rogue and Cleric). Khelben is level 27. Manshoon is level 25. Telemont's sons are all leveled between 33 being the highest level to 20 being the lowest.
y
However I did find Ioulaum who is wizard 31, Archmage 5, Netherese Arcanist 5. So level 41. He is also a Elder brain so add on those psion abiities equals insane power. I belive he is the highest level arcane caster. |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:45:00
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The brothers levels are: Hadrhune Wiz10/Sha10,
Rivalen Wiz11/Clr15/Sha7
Clariburnus Sor14/Sha4/Ft8/Rog3
Brennus Div12/Lor8/Sha6
Mattick/Vattick both Illusionist16/Sha9
Yder Ft11/Sor12/Sha4
Melegaunt Div16/Sha4
Lamorak Wiz19/Sha7
Dethud Nec15/Sha8
Aglarel Sor10/Ft10/Clr6/Sha2 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 06:53:37
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| What are the sources for these stats? Are they canon or wiki? (One must be suspicious of the dubious origins of public content.) |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 03 Dec 2010 06:55:08 |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 07:29:18
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| What of the Srinshee? If I recall correctly, in 2 edition stats she was Wizard 54, High Mage 5. WHat would that make her in third? Don't forget she must be a powerful High Mage, since she was Senior Cor'Selu'Taar (Grand Mage of the High Mages of Cormanthor)whic probably makes her stronger than Ualair the Silent who (according to Fall of Myth DRannor) was W29/HM. She's also a Chosen of Mystra, and was a baelnorn. |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 07:35:53
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| I reckon the Srinshee is a likely candidate. Ed mentioned something about this stat thing. I can't seem to find it, though. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 03 Dec 2010 07:36:17 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 07:49:44
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| Those stats are certainly not 2E; the rules for that sort of class combinations (let alone a "High Mage" class) didn't exist at all, they're a 3x innovation. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 10:55:28
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Ah! Found it: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4086
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage:
Hmmm. I seem to recall Ed provided some brief 'unofficial' 3e stats/rules advice for the Srinshee in the "Realmslore from Elminster in Myth Drannor" of The Annotated Elminster. Those stats declare the Srinshee as a 54th level character Wizard29/Sorcerer16/Archmage9].
Again, from Ed, and quoted from the source referenced above:-
quote:
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I want her to be more powerful that Larloch in raw wizardly casting power. Her stats should be staggering in power ...
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"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 11:31:39
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| if you go by 3e/epic rules then Ioulaum is higher than the Srinshee |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 12:43:51
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| You can find the levels of the princes of shade in Lords of Darkness 3.0 sourcebook. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 13:57:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Ah, yes. Let's start this argument again.
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 14:04:56
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| You missed the quote in my sig, Ashe - 'There are no stupid questions - just a bunch of inquistive idiots.' (no offense) |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 14:25:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Ah, yes. Let's start this argument again.
It's not like it's against a code of conduct or anything we all agree to follow when we post here......
oh wait... Sec A clause 2. "Before posting a new topic, use the Search feature on the forum, located on the main menu. The feature is reasonably flexible and can help you locate the information you seek, and thus prevent a new duplicated topic from being locked or deleted."
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 14:32:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracons
The seven sisters are levels are Sylune Wiz20/Sor2/Ft2, Alustriel is level Wiz20/Sor2/Acm2, Dove is Rgr14/Sor9/Rog4/Hrp1, Storm is level Rog1/Ftr4/Sor12/Brd8/Hrp3 (So nowhere close in arcane terms), Laeral is Wiz19/Sor4/Rgr7, Simbul is Sor20/Acm2/Wiz10, and Qilue is a cleric anyway. Halaster is level 30, Elminster is level 35, however 6 of those levels are other things that aren't arcane (Fighter, Rogue and Cleric). Khelben is level 27. Manshoon is level 25. Telemont's sons are all leveled between 33 being the highest level to 20 being the lowest.
y
However I did find Ioulaum who is wizard 31, Archmage 5, Netherese Arcanist 5. So level 41. He is also a Elder brain so add on those psion abiities equals insane power. I belive he is the highest level arcane caster.
One point about "leveling" a Chosen....
How much do levels really mean when facing said chosen? If Mystra decides to increase the amount of herself invested in them at the time of your confontation? Or what if she decides that said spellcaster facing off against her lower powered chosen, is mis-using magic in a way to stiffle it and not nuture and further its use and decides not to power their spells?
Nothing that can be calculated of course, but Mystra Can be fickle can't she? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 03 Dec 2010 14:33:52 |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 14:39:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Ah, yes. Let's start this argument again.
I'm not asking who is the mightiest being, or best spellcaster, as mightiest being are gods, and best spellcaster is highly subjective. I'm simply asking who is the highest level arcane caster. A big difference. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 15:48:36
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Well, since it's very rare that actual levels are published for the high-level casters, the argument continues.
quote:
Originally posted by Dracons
Yeah, Larloch is only level 32, Szass Tam is 29, Terraseer is only level 30.
For instance, where did you get these numbers from? Larloch is in Lords of Darkness, Szass is in FRCS and the Epic Handbook, but I have yet to see any official statistics for Arthindol the Terraseer, just that he's high enough level that, in Anauroch: Empire of Shade, he can teleport the party away from him if they are rude (and it doesn't give them a save, implying his DC is high enough they can't resist). |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 16:50:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Well, since it's very rare that actual levels are published for the high-level casters, the argument continues.
quote:
Originally posted by Dracons
Yeah, Larloch is only level 32, Szass Tam is 29, Terraseer is only level 30.
For instance, where did you get these numbers from? Larloch is in Lords of Darkness, Szass is in FRCS and the Epic Handbook, but I have yet to see any official statistics for Arthindol the Terraseer, just that he's high enough level that, in Anauroch: Empire of Shade, he can teleport the party away from him if they are rude (and it doesn't give them a save, implying his DC is high enough they can't resist).
What are you talking about bro? While he doesn't have his full stats, it does state his level on page 102 of Anauroch: The empire of shade, first paragraph. (Like third line from top of page). And I quote
"He is a male sarrukh wizard 25/archmage 5 and could easily defeat all present, but chooses to remain out of the battle." |
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Edited by - Dracons on 03 Dec 2010 16:51:47 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2010 : 17:04:14
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It's alright man. Hope I didn't sound like a ***** just then. I know it seems like this been done to death, but it's not the most powerful or most badass, or even the strongest, I just wanted to know the highest level arcane user is all, that is been stated however minor in a book.
Mod Edit: Watch the language, please.  |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
Edited by - The Sage on 04 Dec 2010 09:20:49 |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2010 : 09:25:35
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The trouble with this is that these characters are all novel or "part of the landscape" characters, designed to be horribly powerful outside of the bonds of what other people can even imagine; the levels given are estimations that can attempt to account for the powers demonstrated by the characters, but are very much dependent on whatever designer happened to stat out the character. The differences, in game terms, between levels once you've gone up above 30 become somewhat irrelevant; they're already so much more powerful than anyone else, the extra juice doesn't matter. Hence the Terraseer, a lich tens of thousands of years old, can be listed as level 30 because at that point he's already effectively unbeatable, when really he could well be given much higher levels, but wasn't because they were irrelevant to the game.
However, as Ed has said that he imagines Larloch as being something like a 47th level mage, and wants the Srinshee to have even more power, and puts her at 54th level, I'd say that makes her pretty much the best spellcaster, in terms of levels, that you'll find anywhere in the Realms. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Is Lord Shadow the highest level spellcaster?
